View Full Version : disciplined?
war_blah
11-12-2002, 04:23
when checking troop stats some troops is "disciplined".(Like Byzantine Infantry) What does it actually do?
Brown Wolf
11-12-2002, 05:05
I have no idea what it means myself.
A Disciplined unit does not go about charging enemies when they feel like it, and they consider units of no Discipline to be worthless (thus they only give half routpenalty). You can say they are somewhere between Elite and Green.
Discilpined units will also not be panicked by the death of the general. I forgot whether they don't get only the huge immediate penalty after he dies, or the constant penalty that is applied through the rest of the battle as well.
The thread (one of them) where this was debated extensively unfortunately disappeared from the Table of Contents, probably didn' make it through conversion. But I can't find it in the old forums either, so it must be gone.
hmm... well i just hate losing my general, i have to watch valour more post patch, mass routing is annoying
Disciplined is what makes the Nubians great, not many other spears have this property.
Dionysus9
11-12-2002, 22:19
Quote[/b] (hrvojej @ Nov. 12 2002,02:27)]Discilpined units will also not be panicked by the death of the general. I forgot whether they don't get only the huge immediate penalty after he dies, or the constant penalty that is applied through the rest of the battle as well.
The thread (one of them) where this was debated extensively unfortunately disappeared from the Table of Contents, probably didn' make it through conversion. But I can't find it in the old forums either, so it must be gone.
Are you sure that all disciplined units are not panicked by death of general? I thought it was only Byz Infantry, because they are the only ones that say it. None of the other disciplined troops say they are okay with the general dying.... I don't know about this one way or the other...
Quote[/b] (Dionysus9 @ Nov. 12 2002,15:19)]Are you sure that all disciplined units are not panicked by death of general? I thought it was only Byz Infantry, because they are the only ones that say it. None of the other disciplined troops say they are okay with the general dying.... I don't know about this one way or the other...
Nubians are not freightened either... And I think Byz Cav aren't either.
war_blah
11-12-2002, 23:02
kataphraktoi is not frightened by death of general either
Neither are the Mamluks, nor (I believe) MHC. So yes, it's a general characteristic of disciplined troops, AFAIK. Also, a lot of troops are both disciplined and elite.
Does anybody know whether the elite troops get a full morale penalty or a half morale penalty when they see the disciplined (non-elite) troops rout?
Dionysus9
11-12-2002, 23:33
Disciplined troops:
Hmmm, this is news to me-- I thought it was just Byz Inf.
One good use of Disciplined troops is as a reserve/rear guard--especially if there are some trees for them to hide in.
If you sit a disciplined troop in some trees toward the back of the action, they will remain fresh for the entire battle. If things go poorly and your general dies and the rest of your army routs, you can pull the fresh reserve out of the trees to defend your routers from persuers.
This tactic can work wonders, but the only problem with it is that you arent using all of your troops in the main fight (which increases the chance of you losing the main fight to begin with). A full fresh unit of Byz infantry charging out of trees into the flank of a tired depleted enemy unit is truly a sight to behold If that doesnt rally your men, nothing will.
Elite units:
That is a darn good question HR I know elites arent bothered at all by non-elites, so I would assume Disciplined troops aren't elite and therefore that elites arent bothered by a disciplined rout. Thats just an assumption.
About the Disciplined and Elite consideration, I too think that Elites consider Disciplined as Green, so half penalty there.
But most Elites are not Disciplined, Knights are all like this...
Yes, but most disciplined are also elite..... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
So, the units that have dual status are considered elite for the purpose of routing penalties, just that they have added bonuses from their disciplined status as well? In other words, if we assume that that the elites ignore disciplined, a unit which is both disciplined and elite will ignore everybody else except other elites or elite/disciplined units?
Ah, the issues of morale... I think that the complex morale system is actually the greatest feature of TW games. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Brown Wolf
11-13-2002, 00:50
Well then how do you make your troops more disciplined?
That seems to be another issue. The word was that the military academy adds to the battlefield discipline of the troops. But, this battlefield discipline is something different from disciplined status. The status is all about the morale penalties, while the battlefield discipline seems to be about decreasing the chance of impetuous charges, maybe even the ability to hold formation effectively, and who knows what else (if it actually has an effect, that is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ).
Well, I think that the Academy does indeed add Disciplined to all units produced there. That is why Jannisaries of all types are Disciplined (and only the Heavies are Elites too).
Battlefield discipline is simply not very much... units not charging out of order... while it is pain to see a unit do it it can actually help at times (if it is forgotten in the back and you are flanked), and it gets +4 to Morale when doing it.
To be honest the only unit I have seen that is both Elite and Disciplined is the Jannisary Infantry. I haven't seen it on Feudal MAA for instance.
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