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Empire*Of*Media
02-13-2014, 03:12
Hello to Dear Friends in totalwar.org
first of all sorry for my very simple English (maybe bad too! Lol!) but you should read this and be important to you if you consider yourself Human because these are the matters of humanity and you must put yourself in those peoples shoes that how they live and why they live like this!
PLEASE READ THESE CAREFULLY AND WITH DETAIL ONE BY ONE IF YOU WANT TO KNOW AND KNOW THE TRUTH, THESE ARE THE ISLAMIC REFERENCES AND I HAVE PUT THE JUDGE FOR YOU….
i thought that now most of you criticize the poor Defeated Christianity in Europe & North America (that’s because Christ did not bring Shariah and strict laws and doesn’t invite you to fight and hate by his name or it would not be weakened in these times) and i was surprised why here no thread was opened for Islamic Logical Criticize with Documents of themselves!! well maybe most or all of you dont know anything about islam just heard on TV that a Muslim suicide bombed himself and killed people! and you dont know that "WHY" ! you just hate them and their work! well this is not enough! you must know the roots of this crazy and evil works and for that you can not speak to their preachers & expositors! because they that call themselves "Moderate Muslims" only know to escape and run away from truth, the truth that they know too but i dont know why they still insist on it maybe fear because Allah in islam have a high pressure of FEAR than to kindness and tolerance.
criticize titles are too much! well i tell you that discussing and criticizing about islam takes too much read and researches, its not like any religion that for example christianity, because something like christianity does not have strict laws and laws and laws! even laws in the very personal life such as how to have sex and afterwards like islam!!!! but islam is totaly different because first in all of its years many so called islamic scholars and expositors saw many incompleteness, weakness and nonesenses in the quran and hadiths itself, then they started to explanation that its better to be called self-justification to fool the person that is in doubts. and thats why there are toooooo many books and histories about Qur'an and Islamic History and life of Muhammad and his Khalifs (successors).

so its better to go and ask those EX-MUSLIMS than nonebelievers (Atheists) or the muslim so called intellectuals. the people such as these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariwan_Halabjaee a Kurdish high Intellectual that was an ex muslim clergyman himself and later a good wise modern sociologist and psychologist. (Please Visit EXTERNAL LINKS in WIKIPEDIA page for more information about his works and Islam itself) and https://sites.google.com/site/charlesrcblog/home That was threatened to death by Islamic League & Islamic Alliance (CANT’t be called them Kurds) and he Fled to Sweden with Family.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Kasravi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_dashti
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nawal_Saadawi
and many that its not in wikipedia or its not english and many i dont know yet.
but the interesting matter is that that most of them have been killed horribly or threatened to death or jailed all of their life.
so lets Start

well. i wanted to make a separate thread for each subject and discussion because each of them takes many many references and debates and talks. For example the KILLING and even MASS KILLINGS & GENOCIDE matter Allowed Quran & Islam and the Bloody Wars of Muhammad until Converted Arabia To Islam and after his death his successors The Rashedin KHALIFS and later khalifs Forcing Many Great Nations but in their weak period times, Terribly To Convert To Islam such as Syria, Egypt, Greater Iran and Kurdistans and Afganistan, Tabaristan, Armenians,North Africa &…. At Any Cost By Mass Killings and Making their Wife & Children as Their SLAVES and after the war, Jaziyah (Ransom) For The Whole life or must convert, as the jews paid after their Mass Killings in Israel, Judaea, and…..many other things but I want now to go for Women’s Place in Islam and Muhammad & Arabs View for now. so i will start with the first and important one >>>>>>>>>>>> THE WOMEN !!

Women In Islam

here is a very useful and valueable source to know more about Islam and Women and Sex find the book in your language Sex Sharia and Women, In History of Islam by Mariwan Halabjaee >> https://sites.google.com/site/charlesrcblog/home or search in google its indeed a great fanaticism free and with accepted references!

well that book can EASILY TELL YOU EVERYTHING here i just want to tell things i've personaly want to quote and talk about it. But I tell you I’ve not edited the translations, all the translations for English I’ve brought from http://quran.com/ AND http://www.noblequran.com/translation/ just because of poor English translation I had to Copy one of them or in some cases I had to mixture them. For example in matter of sex one said how you wish to sex one said only vagina, but I should go to Explanation of SAHIH AL BUKHARI and see that which one is Confirmed. BUT I’VE NOT EDITED or my own wish translation of The Qu’ranik verses and Hadiths its all from their Confirmed Sources.

in Islam, as all of you know, there is no respect for women and call them idiots and deceiver and feeble-minded and the Tools of Sheitan (Satan) & ……such as these. Women Can NOT EVEN PRAY TOGETHER with Men even Her Father Brother and Husband they must be separate and not see each other!!
But as I see NO DIFFERENCE Between JUDAISM and ISLAM because their believes and stories and importantly Religious LAWS (in Hebrew Sharia in Arabic Shari’at شریعت-See! Even in Roots of Language!) and therefor Muhammad’s Religion is and ARABIC MUHAMMADIC ISLAMIC EDITED OF JUDAISM!!
In Surat Al Nisa’ Ayat 1 says: “O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam), and from him (Adam) He created his wife [Hawwa (Eve)], and from them both He created many men and women and fear Allah through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and (do not cut the relations of) the wombs (kinship) . Surely, Allah is Ever an All-Watcher over you.”
That Yahuwa/ Allah has created Eve (Women) from the Adam (Man)….(Islam Says Women were Created from Left Rib of Man!! well this is common between Semitic Religions but not logical! How can women be from man?! And why?!
In most NON-SEMITIC religions believe Women (mother) as the Nature and Birth God! In many Pagan religions like Hinduism and other small native religions. IN ZOROASTRIANISM Zarathushtra believes that first it was Women that was created by the God AHURAMAZDA, because it is women that with her complicated magnificent birth system CAN BIRTH and be pregnant of children boy and girl. It is women that can raise children without any real problem. And it is women that can have indefinite Patience, Love and affection for everyone.
Judaism/Islam/Quran/Muhamad’s view are from the limited local believes. In Sahara of Arabia and Ancient Judaea (Ancient Israel) that women in those regions had no rights or at least had lesser rights than men unlike Ancient India And Iran (specially in Ancient Kurdistan by the quotes of Archeologists and linguisticians like Vladimir Minorsky and Mackenzie &…)
Muhammad both Loves Women and Lock and hate them and tools for Sin of Man!!
The Hate of Women in Islam & Muhammad’s View:
First, Muhammad ’s Wives Situation:
Muhammad as the Confirmed Clergymen of Islam says had Many wives some 12 Wives and 28 Temporary Wife (Mot’a) and 18 Kanizs (Female Slave) well too much for a prophet as the jewish prophets had many wives and Female Slaves too.
But Muhammad Loved one of them very much somehow really felt love with her and her name was AYISHA عایشه a SIX YEAR OLD GIRL! Beautiful Daughter of ABU BAKR on of his loyal followers and later First Khalif (Successors) He wanted to marry her but abubakr said how she is not even in the prescribed age?! Couldn’t you wait until she be 9 years old?! Muhammad accepted but at last he could not resist and marry her in her 8th years old but promised Abubakr not to have sex with her until age of 9!! While this was when Muhammad was 56 Years Old!! I Don’t say anything you name it what is this …………
The interesting matter was Muhammad never had a son! Despite in Islam having Daughter is a Shame but Muhammad himself despite all of those women that had sex with, had no son but too many Daughters that he gaved to those Chief of Tribes as a sign of Alliance!!…….these things I told needs too much reference links in here, but I will assure you no mullah and muslim clergymen Deny these as they natural for them and see no shame in it……..lets stick to the subject….
Surat 33 Al Ahzab Ayat 32-33:
32.“O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah , then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech. 33. And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.”
I Could say his wives were the most wretched people because they should be in full obedience to Muhammad even after his death! They could never marry or get out of the house too much even when they have no husband!!
Muhammad told that all muslim men must observe order to their sex with their women means to sex with them with order one by one and not one twice….but himself has exception that his Allah Gifted to him!! When HAFSA one of his wives went out but suddenly forgot something, Muhammad didn’t know and she came back and saw Muhammad on MARIYAH a Black Egyptian Slave, having sex while he had sex with her twice before and HAFSA Complained Muhammad told her not to tell to AISHA his very beloved Teenage (Child yet) wife. But Hafsa could not resist and Told to Aisha what happened and Ayisha complained greatly to Muhammad! Then Muhammad was angry with Hafsa and he claim Allah Sent to him this verse:
In Surat 66 Al Tahrim Ayat 5:
Perhaps his Lord, if he divorced you [all], would substitute for him wives better than you - submitting [to Allah ], believing, devoutly obedient, repentant, worshipping, and traveling - [ones] previously married and virgins.
Well Allah has given them Honor they are wretched wives of Muhammad so if they do something not likely to Allah and his prophet, Allah can Divorce them all Easily and can bring wives better than them like Virgins!! This is the last warning you wives of Muhammad!! (Except Ayisha!!)
Women In Islam In General
as the Muhammad itself has a Hadith (Islamic Holy Exemplum - Tale - Narrative) that suddenly tells the women laughing, that the hell is full of them because their hatred is too much(!!) and dont obey their husbands, although they all have deficiency in mind and even faith, women asked why, he told them because your women!! dont you have menstrual period?! they replied yes Holy prohpet, Muhammad replied thats the other reason! and therefor you can not even pray in those periods isnt affirm and evidence and witnesses of 4 women counted as 1 man? thats the other reason!!! (Sahih Al Bukhari - al haizh - tark al haez al thawm - hadith 298)
the witness matter in sura 2 al baqara ayat(holy verse)282, says absolutely that "womens witness and evidence is equal to 1 men, because women does not have a perfect mind & wisedom therefor they will forget"!! and Allah has forgotten that what about if men forget?! this directly means that women can not think appropriate because of faulty mind and are not to be trusted! as simple as that!!
while we have many worse verses that equals Women to Turd and Shi t !!

surat al nisa ayat 43:
“O you who have believed, do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying or in a state of janabah (in and after Sex without washing the body), except those passing through [a place of prayer], until you have washed [your whole body]. And if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself by call of Nature (after shi tting out) or you have touched or contacted women (such as Jima’ (Sex) and Touching directly) and find no water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and your hands [with it]. Indeed, Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving.”
first you see that touching shi t is equal to touching women and men should not go to pray at those times!! you see how much Allah is giving value to women!
Second….No more to tell to women? Only men?! AT ALL, Al Nisa' in Arabic means Women! so it should be the Surat or topic & thread somehow to Women themselves and to address them speak with them. with this, and more i will bring for you soon, you will see Nothing i repeat NOTHING tell to women directly only addresses and says to men what to do(men i mean male not mankind) or says some things does not have relevance to the subject women!!

Well this is Allah’s knowledge about his creature! Look how Allah or Muhammad Describes women’s menstruation!! > Surat2 Al Baqarat ayat 222: “And they ask you about menstruation. Say, "It is harm, so keep away from wives during menstruation. And do not approach them until they are pure. And when they have purified themselves, then come to them from where Allah has ordained for you (go in unto them in any manner as long as it is in their vagina or anus!!).. Indeed, Allah loves those who are constantly repentant and loves those who purify themselves."
First why should Allah create harmful things for his creature and only to women?!
Second why they are not Pure?! Menstruation is only in the matrix and in the vagina of the women IF WE SUPPOSE ITS UNCLEAN (because I don’t know whats it good for) but whats that to do with whole body and closeness?! How creature of God will be unclean for such a natural matter that only its dirtiness is when the liquid comes out? Why someone should be left for herself and do not touched and do not be kind and jail her in home only because it is going to be menstruation?!! This is Allah’s goodness & Mercy?! AND his knowledge about his creature?!
Here’s a Short video by Mariwan Halabjaee about Surat Al Nisa’ ayat 34 how tells men to beat women if you Feared and maybe THOUGHT that they don’t want to obey you because Allah has given higher value to others (Men)!! > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO08Pxa7Kro
And here in al baqara 228 avouches that men have higher ranking than women :
“Divorced women remain in waiting for three periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have more right to take them back in this [period] if they want reconciliation. And due to the wives is similar to what is expected of them, according to what is reasonable. But the men have a degree over them [in responsibility and authority]. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise”
Well, Allah was Arab! And its Sahraean Arab not even Sabaean Arab! Only thought that women in the world are women in Sahara in Arabia!! And didn’t know that in modern times there are women too that can WORK and feed the whole family!! EVEN in Zoroastriansim and Ancient Iran & Mesopotamia (Ancient Kurdistan) Women had high ranks in the society and could have war and battle decisions and could have select her husband by her own and will they were praised and highly respected before islam and could punish Men for being lazy or bad or disbehaving !!
This is the highest women’s Value in Islam: Surat al Baqara Ayat 223:
“Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation, Crop Them however you wish (have sexual relations with your wives in any manner - Vagina or Anus) and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves. And fear Allah and know that you will meet Him. And give good tidings to the believers.”
Well your women are your tilth !! Do with them however you wish Dear Muslim Men !!

In the same surat in ayat 15 says: “Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way.”
First she may had some needs that the man could not afford so why so evil with a traitor?! You could easily divorce her and shoot her out of your home as it was in ancient Arabia SECOND why Allah has not told about anything about traitor men?! And a women what should do if his husband had illegal sex? Well they have been given small law later AFTER Muhammad that women too should bring FOUR MEN WITNESSES!! How on earth a feeble women that can not even chat with men can bring 4men in the time of her husbands sex?!! And if SHE Complained and COULD NOT PROVE IT THE WOMEN WILL BE PUNISHED WITH HIGH NUMBER OF LASHES!! Third if an accuse be upon the women If she could not prove against it, then she will be condemned to ZINA زنا (Adultery) an her punishment is death or beaten/Stoned or jailed in home for all of her life!!
This is Allah’s Justice to his creation without any discrimination!
In the same sura ayat 11: “Allah instructs you concerning your children: for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are [only] daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate. And if there is only one, for her is half. And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children. But if he had no children and the parents [alone] inherit from him, then for his mother is one third. And if he had brothers, for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he [may have] made or debt. Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. [These shares are] an obligation [imposed] by Allah . Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.”
Well this is Allah’s Justice again not only Daughter but the mother that has suffered much to raise children must have less estate & domain compared to Male!!
In the same surat ayat 122 says: “They ask your legal instruction concerning women, say: Allah instructs you about them, and about what is recited unto you in the Book concerning the orphan girls whom you give not the prescribed portions (as regards Mahr and inheritance) and yet whom you desire to marry, and (concerning) the children who are weak and oppressed, and that you stand firm for justice to orphans. And whatever good you do, Allah is Ever All-Aware of it.”
you see how equal between men & women in Islam and Muhammad's View?! And this shows men how to not to give their Mahr & Prescribed portions to orphans and make her marry free as your own wish (Men)!! (Mahr مهر- مهریه is some portions scribed and accepted before the marriage for the women that ONLY the father of the girl define it, for himself mainly. But the good original law is Zoroastrian as in Iranic Langs Mahr means Kindness & goodness Mithrayism is Greek and Mahrism is Iranic, but no mean in Arabic)

Anytime Anywhere women are evil plotter and deceiver!! >> Surat 12 Al Yusf الیوسف (Joseph in Jews) : “So when he (her husband) saw his [Yusuf's (Joseph)] shirt torn at the back; (her husband) said: "Surely, it is a plot of you women! Certainly mighty is your plot!”
Now The Love of Women (Not Giving Love but Love to Sex and Slave & Lock Them in Home!)
Now lets see the other side and the high Lust that Muhammad had and Invites the Muslim men to. Well if we don’t mention the KID AYISHA again, Why lust?! See for yourself I can not name these as Love!:
Surat 4 Al Nisa’ Ayat 3:
“And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses [Captives and Slaves]. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].”
You See! Muhammad & Islam Hate Women, but Love to bring as many of them as they can! And Limitation is not for Kaniz (FemaleSlave) Or Mat’a (Temporary Wife!-Islamic Whore) and they do not have any limitation. Note that limit of 4 women in Islam was because Rich Men were few but if you have much money doesn’t matter and you can have many you like (Again men!) women are for your joy! So be like a rooster and have unlimited joy of women but don’t let anyone have it only for yourself!!
So now lets Look at the PARADISE that Muhammad Invited Muslim men to it and caused many Killings and destroying of Civilizations during Abubakr’s & Omar’s Invasions (1st & 2nd Cruel & Merciless Khalif-Successor) that were ready to do whatever in any cost to preach Islam with force and Allah give them these things (below) and if they be Martyred it will be given them Instantly!! Now don’t surprise those suicide bomb themselves…..!!
-18 !!
Surat 52 At-Tur Ayat 20 – 23 – 24:
“20.They will recline (with ease) on thrones arranged in ranks. And We shall marry them to Houris (Girls in The Islamic Paradise Ready To Sex Anytime For the “Good” Muslim Men!) fair ones with wide lovely eyes…..23. They will exchange with one another a cup [of wine] wherein [results] no ill speech or commission of sin. 24. There will circulate among them [servant] boys [especially] for them, as if they were pearls well-protected.”
Surat Al Rahman Ayat 56:
“Wherein both will be those (maidens) restraining their glances upon their husbands, whom no man or jinn yatmithhunna (has opened their hymens with sexual intercourse) before them.“
Oh my God I love to go there !!!!
And The Same At 70 – 76:
70. Therein (gardens) will be fair (wives) good and beautiful;
71. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?
72. Houris (beautiful, fair females) restrained in pavilions;
73. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?
74. Whom no man or jinn yatmithhunna (has opened their hymens with sexual intercourse) before them.
75. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?
76. Reclining on green cushions and rich beautiful mattresses.
77. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?
Exotic temptation huh?! You see how that Hymen that is an insult to Women is important by Muhammad & Allah?! Now in 21th Century whats your idea about Hymen?! So that who insists of having a wife must and must have not opened hymen…in these days what do we call it?!......!
Surat 78 Al Naba’ Ayat 32 – 34:
32. Gardens and grapeyards;
33. And young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age;
34. And a full cup (of wine).
That’s ………!!
Oh! Look at Surat 56 Al Waq’iah 9-38:
9. And those on the Left Hand (i.e. those who will be given their Record in their left hands), Who will be those on the Left Hand? (As a disgrace for them, because they will enter Hell).
10. And those foremost [(in Islamic Faith of Monotheism and in performing righteous deeds) in the life of this world on the very first call for to embrace Islam,] will be foremost (in Paradise).
11. These will be those nearest to Allah.
12. In the Gardens of Joy (Paradise).
13. A multitude of those (foremost) will be from the first generations (who embraced Islam).
14. And a few of those (foremost) will be from the later time (generations).
15. (They will be) on thrones woven with gold and precious stones,
16. Reclining thereon, face to face.
17. They will be served by immortal Beautiful Young boys, (What? Sodomy!!!!)
18. With cups, and jugs, and a glass from the flowing wine,
19. Wherefrom they will get neither any aching of the head, nor any intoxication. (!!!!)
20. And fruit; that they may choose.
21. And the flesh of fowls that they desire.
22. And (there will be) Houris (fair females) with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for the pious),
23. Like unto preserved pearls.
24. A reward for what they used to do.
25. No Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk) will they hear therein, nor any sinful speech (like backbiting, etc.).
26. But only the saying of: Salam!, Salam! (greetings with peace) !
27. And those on the Right Hand, - Who will be those on the Right Hand?
28. (They will be) among thornless lote-trees,
29. Among Talh (banana-trees) with fruits piled one above another,
30. In shade long-extended,
31. By water flowing constantly,
32. And fruit in plenty,
33. Whose season is not limited, and their supply will not be cut off,
34. And on couches or thrones, raised high.
35. Verily, We have created them (maidens) of special creation.
36. And made them virgins.
37. Loving (their husbands only), equal in age.
38. For those on the Right Hand.

You see that how deceiver Allah is?! Why the things that is Haram and Forbidden in this world but It will be good and free in the other world because you have done what Allah pleased in this world?! So where is the difference? Why not spending Lust in this world with your wife with love and let your daughters enjoy what is in the Paradise in this world too? Or it should Only Men Enjoy and have pleasure?! WHERE IS THE PLEASURE and WHAT IS THE PRIZE FO BEING GOOD WOMEN IN THE PARADISE?! But it seems women are not addressed because Quran is a Men Adorer and see Men Only as The Overlord and the “Perfect Human” and with these, Women are nothing to be placed and addressed in Quran and the Way of Life! They must Only be Limited To home and do whatever Man says raise children be ready anytime for the men’s sex and should not complain even if they are in not a good situation!!

Well if you be a good Muslim and make people muslim even with force and kill for the Allah and lock your wife and kill Love in this world. you will go to Paradise drink one by one cups of Wine (that is forbidden in this world too!!) and they will give you Houris and other Pleasureable things in Paradise, well in this world pederasty and Sodomy and Gayism is forbidden but will be free for you in Paradise and Boys Like Pearls are ready for you if your tired from Sexing too much from Houris!! NOW Wouldnt you like to be Muslim?! Really?! LOL !! I wAnT too !! I WILL MAKE THE WHOLE USA MUSLIM that may Allah give me 72 Houris and 72 Young Pearly Boys and cups of wine milk and honey!! Why Not who dislikes it?!
Well, the MULK ملک (Domain for goods-Slave for humen in Arabic( matter, takes much discussion and a separate thread. For now to be focused on women we describe KANIZ کنیز (Female Slave) in Islam.
Well as Allah (I cant call GOD of universe!) has not banned Slavery in Islam even has amplified it in a “Good Thing” and as you know Slavery will bring much profit and power for that nation that we can example the corrupt & “Civilized” Wild Roman Empire. Islam declares its Slavery is far much better and has given much points & advantages for them and its is not to be compared with all slaver Empires!!
My first Wonder is at all why SLAVERY in a religion that claims equality in human and preaches value and kindness of human?!?!
And the other wonder is that if this is advantages so what is disadvantages?!!! :
What Is Kaniz ?! Kaniz is an female slave caught as captive or prisoner by the War as spoil & trophy & prize of the war by the victor. Note that being converted to Islam or even be Muslim does not change the place and value of the captive & slave, although even the declaration of Holy Marriage that is called Nikah نکاح in Arabic, that is an coercion and necessary in Sharia of Islam, it is not needed for the Kaniz and you can do whatever you want with the slave you can even lend or gift her to anyone you want!! Well as I said it is ملک Mulk (domain like Goods) in general and Kaniz is a part of it plus your legal wife!! Here is some quotes of the Quran and a sign of Generousity for the slaver MEN !! :
Surat 23 Al Mu’mnun Ayat 5-6: 5.And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts) 6.Except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, for then, they are free from blame”
Well here says the slaves (Kanizs) can be whatever even nude to their master and slaver because they will not be included as perfect humans and have not much value!!

In Al Baqara ayat 221 says: “And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a [Free] polytheist Women, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men [to your women] until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you. Those invite [you] to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember.”
You see that a free women even if she is a good person but because she does not blindly accepts Islam is an evil work and against your God! and MARRIAGE in Islam IS NOT BASED ON LOVE or Anything Emotionaly! SECOND this tells how a Kaniz & women in slavery in islam are less value and their believers are a little better than polytheists but can not be better than non slave muslim women!
In Surat Al Nisa’ Ayat 24 for Marriage Conditions says:
“And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess [You domains and spoil & trophy of war, Such as Slaves & Kanizs]. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.”
These says that Slaving is Allowed In Islam and not a bad thing therefor you can even make her for yourself even if she has married!! And has not told even if she is Muslim or not important is that you can have them as Slave and have Sex with them how you Please.
Dear Friends, These were just titles-big titles that I brought for yo. If I type all of the Qur’anik Weaknesses and nonesenses and evil verses it would take more than 1000 page of book!! These were just titles for you to know what is real Islam and WHAT MADE IT POWERFUL to invade & abuse everyone and force convert them or be killed or pay ransom heavily for the life! DON’T THINK that this beautiful middle east (Except Arabia and Israel) was like this sh it that now is! I told you for the examples of Iran & Kurdistan & Zoroastrianism and many other things before ISLAM & JUDAISM were CIVILIZED & Beautiful and place of Peace.
i will be glad to see your ideas and views and explanations and discussion
thank you for reading this article

a completely inoffensive name
02-13-2014, 03:51
I agree. It is not enough to hate Islam because of the actions of a few. We must learn to hate Islam itself for its ability to be abused by the actions of a few.

That's why I hate everyone who does not follow a philosophy that restricts all moral actions to breathing, sleeping and eating as long as the food just happened to be nearby without any action taken by you to kill any plants or animals.

Tuuvi
02-13-2014, 04:46
I agree. It is not enough to hate Islam because of the actions of a few. We must learn to hate Islam itself for its ability to be abused by the actions of a few.

That's why I hate everyone who does not follow a philosophy that restricts all moral actions to breathing, sleeping and eating as long as the food just happened to be nearby without any action taken by you to kill any plants or animals.

"because they that call themselves "Moderate Muslims" only know to escape and run away from truth, the truth that they know too but i dont know why they still insist on it maybe fear because Allah in islam have a high pressure of fear than to kindness and tolerance."

It seems to me like EasternSpartakus' argument is that the abuse of women is explicitly proscribed by Islam, therefore Islam is not being abused by extremists, but rather moderates are contradicting themselves by saying they believe in Islam and then failing to follow the precepts they don't like.

I've seen the very same argument levied against Christianity and religion in general by Atheists here and elsewhere.

a completely inoffensive name
02-13-2014, 04:56
"because they that call themselves "Moderate Muslims" only know to escape and run away from truth, the truth that they know too but i dont know why they still insist on it maybe fear because Allah in islam have a high pressure of fear than to kindness and tolerance."

It seems to me like EasternSpartakus' argument is that the abuse of women is explicitly proscribed by Islam, therefore Islam is not being abused by extremists, but rather moderates are contradicting themselves by saying they believe in Islam and then failing to follow the precepts they don't like.

I've seen the very same argument levied against Christianity and religion in general by Atheists here and elsewhere.

He makes many points. I am making a parody of "well maybe most or all of you dont know anything about islam just heard on TV that a muslim sucide bombed himself and killed people! and you dont know that "WHY" ! you just hate them and their work! well this is not enough! you must know the roots of this crazy and evil works and for that you can not speak to their preachers & expositors!"

There are terrible things explicitly proscribed in all Abrahamic religions. The point you highlight is tired and overused and weak and if you see me making the same point, tell me I am being silly.

This argument is valid only in a world where religious documents are taken in a 100% literal sense by everyone.

Fragony
02-13-2014, 08:14
It is what it is. You have to be an islamapoligist of the worst kind to deny the dreadfull situation of MANY women. That's what I will never understand about lefties, completily blind for the paradox. Logical would be that the leftist cheermonkeys would despise islam, but cheermonkeys only cheer when christianity gets finger ad face.

Husar
02-13-2014, 08:44
These so-called women issues are just a distraction.

The real problem the West has with Islam is that it's standing in the way of unrestricted capitalism in large parts of the world that are just waiting to get exploited even more. The religion of mammon cannot have loans without interest.

Fragony
02-13-2014, 09:14
These so-called women issues are just a distraction.

The real problem the West has with Islam is that it's standing in the way of unrestricted capitalism in large parts of the world that are just waiting to get exploited even more. The religion of mammon cannot have loans without interest.

So why are muslim women walking on eggs here (the west) then? Domestic abuse is rampant. We used to take bets on whichneighbour, up, down, left or right, would start hitting his wife first that day. Thin walls, you hear everything. And before you ask 'why didn't you call the police' rotflol@you. We did. We stopped bothering to. We helped once, guess who were the ones spending the night in a police-cell. We have these 'blij van mijn lijf' (stay of my body) houses, they are filled with abused and terrified muslim women, and those are just the ones brave enough to say adieu to their loving families.

HoreTore
02-13-2014, 09:17
These so-called women issues are just a distraction.

The real problem the West has with Islam is that it's standing in the way of unrestricted capitalism in large parts of the world that are just waiting to get exploited even more. The religion of mammon cannot have loans without interest.

Both Christianity and Islam share the same hate of the moneylenders.

They have both failed to uphold this hatred when faced with the usefulness of interest-based loans. The Christian world has come to the point where they no longer care at all, while the Islamic world still pays lip service to the concept.

Husar
02-13-2014, 09:20
All that wouldn't happen under communism, Fragony.


Both Christianity and Islam share the same hate of the moneylenders.

They have both failed to uphold this hatred when faced with the usefulness of interest-based loans. The Christian world has come to the point where they no longer care at all, while the Islamic world still pays lip service to the concept.

Exactly, christianity is mostly defeated, the fight now revolves about petty issues like the condom market because 99% of the market is never enough for capitalism.

Fragony
02-13-2014, 09:29
All that wouldn't happen under communism, Fragony.

Yeahyeah, you all know I am right about the position of women in the islam. Difference is that I actually care, and others want to pretend it's all unicorns and rainbows. Even if they know it isn't. Why let these women down, you can't relativate your way out of the ambuigity that is putting respect for islam above women's rights if you are an enlightened westerner. Rediculing the situation is even worse than relativating imho.

HoreTore
02-13-2014, 09:38
All that wouldn't happen under communism, Fragony.



Exactly, christianity is mostly defeated, the fight now revolves about petty issues like the condom market because 99% of the market is never enough for capitalism.

The Christian world was never based on loans without interest, though. Christian Europe has always found a way to justify money-lending with interest, either by outsourcing it to the Jews(who are going to burn anyway) or making up elaborate excuses for it.

The situation is the same in the muslim world. There are a few banks(both christian and muslim) doing loans without interest, but they are just curiosities.

Husar
02-13-2014, 11:07
Yeahyeah, you all know I am right about the position of women in the islam. Difference is that I actually care, and others want to pretend it's all unicorns and rainbows. Even if they know it isn't. Why let these women down, you can't relativate your way out of the ambuigity that is putting respect for islam above women's rights if you are an enlightened westerner. Rediculing the situation is even worse than relativating imho.

Who pretends it's all unicorns and rainbows? You're the one who likes to pretend it's all unsolvable misery and that we need more apartheid.


The Christian world was never based on loans without interest, though. Christian Europe has always found a way to justify money-lending with interest, either by outsourcing it to the Jews(who are going to burn anyway) or making up elaborate excuses for it.

The situation is the same in the muslim world. There are a few banks(both christian and muslim) doing loans without interest, but they are just curiosities.

So what? The worshipping of mammon was already widely criticized in the bible, I didn't say it's a new problem.

HoreTore
02-13-2014, 11:11
So what? The worshipping of mammon was already widely criticized in the bible, I didn't say it's a new problem.

I'm not arguing against you, my dear German ~;)

Interest is indeed regarded as Satans doing in both the Quran and the Bible, but neither the christian nor the muslim have ever cared much about it.

Fragony
02-13-2014, 11:20
Who pretends it's all unicorns and rainbows? You're the one who likes to pretend it's all unsolvable misery and that we need more apartheid.

I do? Must have missed that. I do feel that there is absolutily no reason to cater islam, as it is the exact opposite of well, just about everything the west should stand for. It has no place here. An immigrant leaves his troubles behind and can settle here, what should I call someone who brings his troubles with him?

Screw the islam, it's vile. Not only to women, but also towards gays, or just about everything really, jews, christians, atheists. But screw lefties the most because they are total hypocrites. You can't respect islam and respect human rights at the same time. It's impossible.

total relism
02-13-2014, 12:34
Hello to dear users in totalwar.org
first of all sorry for my very simple english (maybe bad too! Lol!)
i thought that now most of you criticize christianity in europe & north America, and i was surprised why here no thread was opened for Islamic Criticize!! well maybe most or all of you dont know anything about islam just heard on TV that a muslim sucide bombed himself and killed people! and you dont know that "WHY" ! you just hate them and their work! well this is not enough! you must know the roots of this crazy and evil works and for that you can not speak to their preachers & expositors! because they that call themselves "Moderate Muslims" only know to escape and run away from truth, the truth that they know too but i dont know why they still insist on it maybe fear because Allah in islam have a high pressure of fear than to kindness and tolerance.
criticize titles are too much! well i tell you that discussing and crticizing about islam takes too much read and researches, its not like any religion that for example christianity, because something like christianity does not have strict laws and laws and laws! even laws in the very personal life such as how to have sex and afterwards like islam!!!! but islam is totaly different because first in all of its years many so called islamic scholars and expositors saw many weakness and nonesenses in the quran and hadiths itself, then they started to explanation that its better to be called self-justification to fool the person that is in doubts. and thats why there are toooooo many books and histories about Qur'an and Islamic History and life of Muhammad and his Khalifs (successors).

so its better to go and ask those EX-MUSLIMS than nonebelievers (Atheists) or the muslim so called intellectuals. the people such as these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariwan_Halabjaee a Kurdish high Intellectual that was an ex muslim clergyman himself and later a good wise modern sociologist and psychologist. (Please Visit EXTERNAL LINKS in WIKIPEDIA page for more information about his works and Islam itself) and https://sites.google.com/site/charlesrcblog/home
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Kasravi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_dashti
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nawal_Saadawi
and many that its not in wikipedia or its not english and many i dont know yet.
but the interesting matter is that that most of them have been/will be killed horribly or threatened to death or jailed all of their life.
so lets Start

well. i wanted to make a seperate thread for each subject and discussion because each of them takes many many references and debates and talks. so i will start with the first and importan one >>>>>>>>>>>> THE WOMEN !!

Women In Islam

here is a very useful and valueable source to know more about Islam and Women and Sex find the book in your language Sex Sharia and Women, In History of Islam by Mariwan Halabjaee >> https://sites.google.com/site/charlesrcblog/home or search in google its indeed a great fanaticism free and with accepted references!

well that book can EASILY TELL YOU EVERYTHING here i just want to tell things i've personaly want to quote and talk about it:

in Islam, as all of you know, there is no respect for women as the muhammad itself has a hadith (Islamic Holy Exemplum - Tale - Narrative) that suddenly tells the women laughing, that the hell is full of them because their hatred is too much(!!) and dont obey their husbands, although they all have deficiency in mind and even faith, women asked why, he told them because your women!! dont you have menstrual period?! they replied yes Holy prohpet, Muhammad replied thats the other reason! and therefor you can not pray in those periods!!! isnt affirm and evidence and witnesses of 4 women counted as 1 man? thats the other reason!!! (Sahih Al Bukhari - al haizh - tark al haez al thawm - hadith 298 صحص البخاری - کتاب الحیض - باب - ترک الحائض الثوم - حدیث 298)
the witness matter in sura 2 al baqarra البقره ayat(holy verse)282, says absolutely that "womens witness and evidence is equal to 1 men, because women does not have a perfect mind & wisedom therefor they will forget"!! and Allah has forgotten that what about if men forget?! this directly means that women can not think because of faulty mind and are not to be trusted! as simple as that!!
while we have many worse verses that equals Women to Turd and Shi t !! :

surat al nisa ayat 43 سوره النساء
O you who have believed, do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying or in a state of janabah (in and after Sex without washing the body), except those passing through [a place of prayer], until you have washed [your whole body]. And if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself after shi tting out or you have touched or contacted women and find no water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and
your hands [with it]. Indeed, Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving.

first you see that touching shi t is equal to touching women and men shold not go to pray at those times!! you see how much Allah is giving value to women!

second Al Nisa' in arabic means Women! so it should be the Surat or topic & thead somehow to Women themselves. with this, and more i will bring for you soon, you will see Nothing i repeat NOTHING tell to women directly only addresses and says to men what to do(men i mean male not mankind) or says somethings does not have relevance to the subject women!!
you see how equal between men & women in Islam and Muhammad's View?!

i will update this first post for now and will update this first post continuously until that then i will be glad to see your ideas and views and explanations and discussion
thank you


Is Islam true?.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?142771-Is-Islam-true&highlight=
comparing islam and christanity
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?531553-comparing-islam-and-christanity

rajpoot
02-13-2014, 13:46
Question is what Islam are you talking about.
Every religion has a few silly aspects that have no place in the enlightened West (although you should call in enlightened world. I mean even if you forget Asia, is Australia backward?).
Different people follow religions differently. Every religion can be abused by extremists because a lot of stuff that is written can be twisted to suit their dirty purposes. That does not mean that practicing that religion becomes inherently bad. There are pious Muslims here and elsewhere in the world who treat their women with as much respect and dignity as any Christian or Buddhist or Hindu would.
The kind of abuse that is reported does not come from religious teachings. It comes from centuries of cultural evils that were propagated across time because no one spoke up and said, "That's :daisy: stupid, inhuman and downright insulting to women. We should stop doing that".
Now though people who are being brought up differently have begun saying just that. Educated, learned Muslims free from the shackles of obsolete customs and extremism and changing things. Look at pictures of Afghanistan (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2543902/Photos-just-free-women-Afghanistan-Taliban-rule.html) from before the time of Al Qaeda. People in those pictures are Muslims. Everyone tends to forget these things.
Another example is from Hinduism. Out here till a few years back it was customary for women to burn themselves on their deceased husband's pyre, called Sati. It was abolished, partly due to an enlightened soul who went by the name of Raja Ram Mohan Roy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Mohan_Roy) and partly due to the British Raj. That does not make Hinduism inherently bad.

Beskar
02-13-2014, 13:52
I think our two resident scholars, total relism and EasternSpartakus should discuss and debate all these issues together. It would be an enlightening experience.

Sir Moody
02-13-2014, 14:06
I think our two resident scholars, total relism and EasternSpartakus should discuss and debate all these issues together. It would be an enlightening experience.

do you think the forum can handle that many embedded links?

Husar
02-13-2014, 15:00
I do? Must have missed that. I do feel that there is absolutily no reason to cater islam, as it is the exact opposite of well, just about everything the west should stand for. It has no place here. An immigrant leaves his troubles behind and can settle here, what should I call someone who brings his troubles with him?

Screw the islam, it's vile. Not only to women, but also towards gays, or just about everything really, jews, christians, atheists. But screw lefties the most because they are total hypocrites. You can't respect islam and respect human rights at the same time. It's impossible.

But then Christians are also mostly hypocrites. You keep refering to islam and you mean fundamentalist islam, which is ia bit of a niche. But so is fundamentalist christianity, which gets much less flak from you. Who do you you think is trying so hard to ban gay marriages and gay behavior and what not around Europe, in the USA and in Russia? And we already discussed how most "christians" are hypocrites because they pay lip service to a religion and then don't really follow it. The bible says that men loving men is an abomination unto god and while Jesus preached a far more relaxed approach, most christians who actually believe do not want to make such sins legal in any way.

Fragony
02-13-2014, 15:23
But then Christians are also mostly hypocrites. You keep refering to islam and you mean fundamentalist islam, which is ia bit of a niche. But so is fundamentalist christianity, which gets much less flak from you. Who do you you think is trying so hard to ban gay marriages and gay behavior and what not around Europe, in the USA and in Russia? And we already discussed how most "christians" are hypocrites because they pay lip service to a religion and then don't really follow it. The bible says that men loving men is an abomination unto god and while Jesus preached a far more relaxed approach, most christians who actually believe do not want to make such sins legal in any way.

Why would I give christiantity any EXTRA flak. Face it, you can't be a humanist and an islamapoligist at the same time. Haxie will probably be screaming Avaroes! but I got him in time, I allready mentioned avaroes. Not here but before. And there are more, it's true. But there is a WHOLE lot more of the nastier aspect of having a desert ideoligy in a modern civilisation.

total relism
02-13-2014, 15:55
Question is what Islam are you talking about.
Every religion has a few silly aspects that have no place in the enlightened West (although you should call in enlightened world. I mean even if you forget Asia, is Australia backward?).
Different people follow religions differently. Every religion can be abused by extremists because a lot of stuff that is written can be twisted to suit their dirty purposes. That does not mean that practicing that religion becomes inherently bad. There are pious Muslims here and elsewhere in the world who treat their women with as much respect and dignity as any Christian or Buddhist or Hindu would.
The kind of abuse that is reported does not come from religious teachings. It comes from centuries of cultural evils that were propagated across time because no one spoke up and said, "That's :daisy: stupid, inhuman and downright insulting to women. We should stop doing that".
Now though people who are being brought up differently have begun saying just that. Educated, learned Muslims free from the shackles of obsolete customs and extremism and changing things. Look at pictures of Afghanistan (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2543902/Photos-just-free-women-Afghanistan-Taliban-rule.html) from before the time of Al Qaeda. People in those pictures are Muslims. Everyone tends to forget these things.
Another example is from Hinduism. Out here till a few years back it was customary for women to burn themselves on their deceased husband's pyre, called Sati. It was abolished, partly due to an enlightened soul who went by the name of Raja Ram Mohan Roy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Mohan_Roy) and partly due to the British Raj. That does not make Hinduism inherently bad.


I think the op's point was that true islam, teaches bad of woman, not that some muslims [western liberal] dont follow it. But tha koran and hadiths speak clearly as does early history of islam.



woman
Koran says you can beat your wife 4.34
marry girls before their first period. 65.4
Qur’an 4:34—Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Qur’an 2:282— . . . and call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind the other . . .
Sahih al-Bukhari 2658—The Prophet said: “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said: “Yes.” He said: “This is because of the deficiency of her mind.”
woman must breast feed 2 years if men wish 2.223
wives need to do good works to go to heaven 33.27-30
men get two times the inheritance that woman get 4 10-12 different punishment for men and woman, woman get more severe 4 15-16 men have authority over woman 4 34-35
iron fist of Islam reminds woman whos in control in jedd Saudi Arabia
Muhammad allowed rape in woman in territories they conquered 4.24 right hand refers to those taken in battle explained in hadith
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/
Qur’an 4:3—And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.
Narrated Usama bin Zaid:
The Prophet said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women." Sahih Bukhari#7:62:33
Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.
Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."
#'Aisha [Muhammad wife] said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women
Volume 7, Book 72, Number 715: Translation of Sahih Bukhari,

Muslim (9:3506)#- Muhammad's father-in-laws (Abu Bakr and Umar) amused him by#slappinghis wives (Aisha and Hafsa) for annoying him.# According to the Hadith, the prophet of Islam laughed upon hearing this.
Abu Dawud (2142)#-#"The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."

Sahih Muslim 142—[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense.
Sahih Al-Bukhari 1462—[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah’s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray."
However, even if these women were to stop cursing and to start thanking their husbands, their prospects for the afterlife would still leave much to be desired. According to Muhammad, Muslim women can look forward to an eternity of standing in corners, waiting for men to come and have sex with them:
Sahih Al-Bukhari 4879—Allah’s Apostle said: "In Paradise there is a pavilion made of a single hollow pearl sixty miles wide, in each corner of which there are wives who will not see those in the other corners; and the believers will visit and enjoy them."
Robert Spencer vs. Moustafa Zayed: Does Islam Grant Equal Rights to Women? http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/08/robert-spencer-vs-moustafa-zayed-does.html?HYPERLINK "http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/08/robert-spencer-vs-moustafa-zayed-does.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+answeringmuslims/ynNl+(Answering+Muslims)"utm_source=feedburnerHYPERLINK "http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/08/robert-spencer-vs-moustafa-zayed-does.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+answeringmuslims/ynNl+(Answering+Muslims)"&HYPERLINK "http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/08/robert-spencer-vs-moustafa-zayed-does.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+answeringmuslims/ynNl+(Answering+Muslims)"utm_medium=emailHYPERLINK "http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/08/robert-spencer-vs-moustafa-zayed-does.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+answeringmuslims/ynNl+(Answering+Muslims)"&HYPERLINK "http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/08/robert-spencer-vs-moustafa-zayed-does.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+answeringmuslims/ynNl+(Answering+Muslims)"utm_campaign=Feed%3A+answeringmuslims%2FynNl+%28Answering+Muslims%29

Muslim men can have sex with captures slaves and wives.
Muhammad allowed his followers to practice a form of prostitution called#Muta

#The Qur’an permits Muslims to have sex with their female captives and slaves (i.e. those "whom their right hands possess"). As the Muslim armies raided town after town, they captured many women, who would often be sold or traded. Yet, since the Muslim men were a long way from their wives, they needed wisdom from God to guide them in their treatment of their female captives:
Qur’an 23:1-6—The Believers must (Eventually) win through—Those who humble themselves In their prayers; Who avoid vain talk; Who are active in deeds Of charity; Who abstain from sex, Except with those joined To them in the marriage bond, Or (the captives) whom Their right hands possess—For (in their case) they are Free from blame.

Qur'an 70:22-30—Not so those devoted To Prayer—Those who remain steadfast To their prayer; And those in whose wealth Is a recognized right For the (needy) who asks And him who is prevented (For some reason from asking); And those who hold To the truth of the Day Of Judgement; And those who fear The displeasure of their Lord—For their Lord’s displeasure Is the opposite of Peace And Tranquility—And those who guard Their chastity, Except with their wives And the (captives) whom Their right hands possess—For (then) they are not To be blamed.

Sunan Abu Dawud 2150—Abu Said al-Khudri said: "The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess" [Qur’an 4:24]. That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period."
Sahih Muslim 3432—Allah’s Messenger sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah’s Messenger seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that: "And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (4:24)" (i.e. they were lawful for them when their Idda period came to an end).

Sahih Muslim 3371—We went out with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing azl (withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

Sahih Al-Bukhari 4138—We went out with Allah’s Apostle for the invasion of Bun Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus [same as "azl" above]. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said: "How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah’s Apostle who is present among us? We asked (him) about it and he said: "It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul till the Day of Resurrection is predestined to exist, it will exist."

Sahih Muslim 3384—Jabir bin Abdullah (Allah be pleased with them) reported that a person asked Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) saying: I have a slave-girl and I practice azl with her, whereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: This cannot prevent that which Allah has decreed. The person then came (after some time) and said: Messenger of Allah, the slave-girl about whom I talked to you has conceived, whereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: I am the servant of Allah and His Messenger.

Sahih Muslim 3248—Ibn Uraij reported: 'Ati' reported that Jabir b. Abdullah came to perform 'Umra, and we came to his abode, and the people asked him about different things, and then they made a mention of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Yes, we had been benefiting ourselves by this temporary marriage during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet and during the time of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar.

Umar not Muhammad forbid practice later on

Sahih Muslim 3250—Abu Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'a (Tamattu’ of Hajj 1846 and Tamattu’ with women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger. Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them.

Legal prostitution in early islam.

Sami Zaatari vs. David Wood: Is Muhammad a Good Role Model for Society?

Leaderx
02-13-2014, 16:55
so its better to go and ask those EX-MUSLIMS than nonebelievers (Atheists) or the muslim so called intellectuals. the people such as these:

Testimonies of ex Muslims who have embraced Christianity have become widespread on the television as well as on the internet. Some of these conversion stories may well be true, whilst most of them can easily be disproven. These false testimonies are being utilised as a means to indoctrinate the minds of non-Muslims with false information about Islam, with the main aim of generating a hatred towards Islam amongst the masses.
http://www.fakeexmuslims.com/



Women In Islam

http://womeninislam.ws/en/


in Islam, as all of you know, there is no respect for women as the muhammad itself has a hadith (Islamic Holy Exemplum - Tale - Narrative) that suddenly tells the women laughing, that the hell is full of them because their hatred is too much(!!) and dont obey their husbands, although they all have deficiency in mind and even faith, women asked why, he told them because your women!! dont you have menstrual period?! they replied yes Holy prohpet, Muhammad replied thats the other reason! and therefor you can not pray in those periods!!!

http://answering-christianity.com/karim/women_not_deficient_in_intelligence_and_religion.htm


while we have many worse verses that equals Women to Turd and Shi t !! :

surat al nisa ayat 43 سوره النساء
This is the ayah
[004:043] O you who believe! Approach not AsSalat (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of what you utter, nor when you are in a state of Janaba, (i.e. in a state of sexual impurity and have not yet taken a bath) except when travelling on the road (without enough water, or just passing through a mosque), till you wash your whole body. And if you are ill, or on a journey, or one of you comes after answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women (by sexual relations) and you find no water, perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands (Tayammum). Truly, Allah is Ever OftPardoning, Oft Forgiving.


Above ruling is same for women if she contact with man(husband) by sexual relation she is not allowed to perfom salah untill she take a bath.



Muslim, Book 003, Number 0682: Abu Huraira reported: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: When a man has sexual intercourse, bathing becomes obligatory (both for the male and the female).



and in next narration of Sahih Muslim When a person asked about one who has sexual intercourse with his wife and parts away Prophet peace be upon him said


I and she (the Mother of the Faithful) do it and then take a bath.


so there is no Problem in this ruling, everybody take bath after relation of husband and wife, no where Qur`an says Women are dirty.

Sarmatian
02-13-2014, 17:23
I think the op's point was that true islam, teaches bad of woman, not that some muslims [western liberal] dont follow it. But tha koran and hadiths speak clearly as does early history of islam.


Taking stuff out of context is a poor way to make your case stronger.

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands,

To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

To be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

... and so on and so forth...


And the overarching point zealots, fanatics and the rest of close minded people seem to forget is that the west finally became enlightened and liberal when it removed religion out of politics and education, not because there was something inherently more enlightening in Christianity than in Islam.

Hax
02-13-2014, 17:53
Averroes is long dead, nobody cares.

I have to go to class now.

Also, when is the last time that I "defended" Islam? Two years or something?

EDIT: What I really have trouble understanding is why people still go to the Bible or the Quran or whatever when they want to study the behaviour of religious people. In my mind, it would make more sense to study the people themselves.

Fragony
02-13-2014, 18:22
AIn my mind, it would make more sense to study the people youthemselvesu.

Oh I agree with that, but are you sure you are going to like what comes out of it.

I have no problem differentiating, a muslim is just someone from an islamic country to me.

total relism
02-13-2014, 21:36
Taking stuff out of context is a poor way to make your case stronger.

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands,

To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

To be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

... and so on and so forth...


And the overarching point zealots, fanatics and the rest of close minded people seem to forget is that the west finally became enlightened and liberal when it removed religion out of politics and education, not because there was something inherently more enlightening in Christianity than in Islam.


I dont have time to be brought into long discussion on this at moment sooo..


I agree fully with you on out of context,if you believe the Koranic passages and hadiths are taken out, you should study before assuming. There are plenty of debates out there with scholars that have studied for years, you can watch and see stuff that people like leaderx [above] and western liberal Muslims will try to say they are out of context, than watch them be refuted. Also you can look to the life of Muhammad and early islam, see if it reflects modern western islam.

I suggest here
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/p/women.html

than debates
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/p/debates.html

type in woman/islam you will find many debates on these subjects.


Christian passages
for man being the head of wife read

men the head of woman/above in charge the bible clearly states they are head of the house. for what that means and how its applied read
mark 10 42-44


for the rest eve and pauls letters under woman in the bible.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?145952-responding-to-common-objections-to-bible-part-6-final&highlight=


"And the overarching point zealots, fanatics and the rest of close minded people seem to forget is that the west finally became enlightened and liberal when it removed religion out of politics and education, not because there was something inherently more enlightening in Christianity than in Islam."


this sounds the most close minded statement of all, everyone but you sucks. The enlightenment happened fully because Christianity, universities hospitals science better forms of government [republic voting etc] etc the bible became available in mass to the populace and everything changed, it was the protestant reformation. But yes more liberal since we got rid of god [america 1940's-1960's and since] i say the change is worse,much worse. Also this last century has seen more death and suffering [Communism,holocaust etc] than previous 15 centuries of Christian kingship [not proper biblical rule]. Also since "religion" has been removed from education, education has drastically declined in every area, except money spent on it. Showing that proper education can do much more with less money [christian home school today,public pre 1963 i think?]. I would post much for links,books,charts but we know your to open minded to even look into it.

Tuuvi
02-14-2014, 02:54
He makes many points. I am making a parody of "well maybe most or all of you dont know anything about islam just heard on TV that a muslim sucide bombed himself and killed people! and you dont know that "WHY" ! you just hate them and their work! well this is not enough! you must know the roots of this crazy and evil works and for that you can not speak to their preachers & expositors!"

There are terrible things explicitly proscribed in all Abrahamic religions. The point you highlight is tired and overused and weak and if you see me making the same point, tell me I am being silly.

This argument is valid only in a world where religious documents are taken in a 100% literal sense by everyone.

I misunderstood you by thinking you were misunderstanding EasternSpartakus. My bad :bow:

Seamus Fermanagh
02-14-2014, 04:10
Question is what Islam are you talking about.
Every religion has a few silly aspects that have no place in the enlightened West (although you should call in enlightened world. I mean even if you forget Asia, is Australia backward?).

Judging by the local turn out it's hard to say. Wasabe speaks to the "clearly enligntened" but Papewaio and Pever' on the other hand......

Hax
02-14-2014, 16:44
I have no problem differentiating, a muslim is just someone from an islamic country to me.

That's just stupid.

There are non-Muslims in every "Islamic" country.

Brenus
02-14-2014, 20:20
All religions want to control sex, and all blame women for the male lust. Islam is not an exception, but not alone either. It is what religions are: seeking control on individuals and imposing rules easy to break, then punishing the "sinners" in the name of a "morality".

Fragony
02-15-2014, 05:37
That's just stupid.

There are non-Muslims in every "Islamic" country.

Yeah, make that muslim background

HoreTore
02-15-2014, 11:00
Yeah, make that muslim background

So.... A member of the Syrian Orthodox church has a "muslim background"? How does that make any sense?

Fragony
02-15-2014, 11:11
So.... A member of the Syrian Orthodox church has a "muslim background"? How does that make any sense?

It doesn't, why you ask

Empire*Of*Media
02-15-2014, 18:21
guys I have Updated the recent thread due to my internet connection had problem did not posted the the whole texts i typed therfor i posted new thread and more complete and have more references
please i have worked alot for it it deserves viewing it and posting replies....
thanks

Rhyfelwyr
02-15-2014, 18:26
I think comments like this:


I agree. It is not enough to hate Islam because of the actions of a few. We must learn to hate Islam itself for its ability to be abused by the actions of a few.

are kind of missing KurdishSpartakus' point. KurdishSpartakus is arguing that the Islamic belief system as expressed in the Koran and the Hadiths is inherently oppressive and unjust, especially towards women. He is not saying that all people who identify as Muslims are oppressive towards women - but I guess he is saying that when these more liberal Muslims become Westernised and treat women well, they are doing it in spite of the Koran, not because of it.

If I may try to express what out Kurdish friend is getting at - I think he means that whatever social and political developments have happened in the Islamic world over the last millennia and a bit, the Islamic belief system will always be rooted in a set of writings that set strict social and moral codes according to the norms of 7th Century Arabia. As such, although the Islamic world may evolve beyond these roots, those roots will themselves always be a cause of opposition to healthy social development. All Muslims might not treat woman barbarically - but the Koran tells them to do so.

While it is easy to mock him and say "bla bla moderate Muslims", this is really a lazy approach and missing the point since he is talking about the Koran/Hadiths as holy texts and their obvious influence upon modern Islam. I think this is especially relevant given the recent explosion of fundamentalist Islam across the entire Islamic world, which seeks to interpret the Koran in a very literal and dogmatic fashion. I think we should all also remember that while we are sitting comfortably enjoying the benefits of the free world, KurdishSpartakus lives in a country and a society with a highly fundamentalist take on Islam.


It is what religions are: seeking control on individuals and imposing rules easy to break, then punishing the "sinners" in the name of a "morality".

So... kind of like your own rather totalitarian vision of French republicanism that you have expressed over the years?

Empire*Of*Media
02-15-2014, 18:53
I think comments like this:



are kind of missing KurdishSpartakus' point. KurdishSpartakus is arguing that the Islamic belief system as expressed in the Koran and the Hadiths is inherently oppressive and unjust, especially towards women. He is not saying that all people who identify as Muslims are oppressive towards women - but I guess he is saying that when these more liberal Muslims become Westernised and treat women well, they are doing it in spite of the Koran, not because of it.

If I may try to express what out Kurdish friend is getting at - I think he means that whatever social and political developments have happened in the Islamic world over the last millennia and a bit, the Islamic belief system will always be rooted in a set of writings that set strict social and moral codes according to the norms of 7th Century Arabia. As such, although the Islamic world may evolve beyond these roots, those roots will themselves always be a cause of opposition to healthy social development. All Muslims might not treat woman barbarically - but the Koran tells them to do so.

While it is easy to mock him and say "bla bla moderate Muslims", this is really a lazy approach and missing the point since he is talking about the Koran/Hadiths as holy texts and their obvious influence upon modern Islam. I think this is especially relevant given the recent explosion of fundamentalist Islam across the entire Islamic world, which seeks to interpret the Koran in a very literal and dogmatic fashion. I think we should all also remember that while we are sitting comfortably enjoying the benefits of the free world, KurdishSpartakus lives in a country and a society with a highly fundamentalist take on Islam.



So... kind of like your own rather totalitarian vision of French republicanism that you have expressed over the years?

Completeley agree with you except the Last one that I DONT live in a highly fundementalist situation, that is but 70%-85% Iraqi Kurdistan and not necceceriley other parts of Kurdistan too Even Iran (Iran's different because mosly they are Shia and the original Islam-Sunnis- are hostile against each other)

and agree with your reply over brenus

and please see the 2nd edition of of this topic = https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?146869-1-Islam-Women-And-Sex-%282nd-Edition%29 Completer and More Referenced

Closed per OP request.