The largest military belongs to... [Archive]

magnum

11-12-2002, 03:21

Playing English, Early-Hard. Year is 1152. Currently I'm finishing up the Almohads with a string of crusades. I own England, France, Spain, and several provinces in north-west Africa.

Turn ended and one of the info-scrolls pops up. You know, the ones that state who has the most money, or is most loved, or has the largest military. I did a double take on the one that just popped up. The Sicilians (who were driven off the mainland of Italy by the Pope) now have the largest military

I've never seen that happen before, and considering they aren't appearing on my map currently I can only assume they must have pretty much wiped out the Byzantines and Turks. Don't ask me why, but I started laughing and couldn't stop. Gotta love the twists in this game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Magnum

Grifman

11-12-2002, 03:56

Yeah, wierd stuff happens sometimes. I watched the Byzants get kicked out of Constantinople and end up becoming the power in Russia and Scandinavia http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Usually either they or the Turks survive by running to the west away from the Egyptians as fast as they can, trying to re-establish themselves somewhere else.

Grifman

Durendal

11-12-2002, 04:37

The behavior of the Byzantines annoys me. Every game, every single one I play the Byz's try to conquer russia and lose Constantinople to the Turks or Egyptians. From the perspectives of both history and gameplay, they really ought to fight to the death to hold their capitol. Going north and sacraficing the heart of their empire leads only to a slow, cold death.

Even if they somehow manage to survive the game in the chilly russian steppe they have no chance of a GA victory because of the loss of their empire's heart. You would think they would care about that

Brown Wolf

11-12-2002, 05:45

Quote[/b] (Durendal @ Nov. 11 2002,21:37)]The behavior of the Byzantines annoys me. Every game, every single one I play the Byz's try to conquer russia and lose Constantinople to the Turks or Egyptians. From the perspectives of both history and gameplay, they really ought to fight to the death to hold their capitol. Going north and sacraficing the heart of their empire leads only to a slow, cold death.

Even if they somehow manage to survive the game in the chilly russian steppe they have no chance of a GA victory because of the loss of their empire's heart. You would think they would care about that
I have noticed the Byzantines to lose the captial and maybe even die out. And then re appear in the north. ( I even onced saved them from a seige, of course I did not know at that time that if you chase out a seige from an enemy in your ally's provience you have the option of giving the land back to your ally).

Postino

11-12-2002, 05:50

if you choose not to give the land back to your ally does the alliance get cancled?

Kraxis

11-12-2002, 05:53

Well since the Byzantines are pretty docile in their script they avoid wars with factions. That leaves them no choice but advance into the rebel provinces in Russia.

MizuKokami

11-12-2002, 06:34

actually, what i've seen, is if you chase out a seige, your ally says thanks, your influence goes up, and your troops go home.

Fearless

11-12-2002, 10:57

Hey play as the Russians and give the Byzantines a dam good trashing...............that'll teach them to stay put

Orion

11-12-2002, 10:58

This is what I laughed yesterday night:

Playying English-Early-Hard

I managed to control English islands, Scandinavia and West Europe. I have finished France and HRE to do that as usual http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.
Then try to stop expanding Egypt. Take mediterranian islands and land to Egypt to chase Egyptians to Palastine. Also, break the HUGE (was really huge for the time) Egyptian army in Silisia (yes they come right into my nose in the east europe).

Then suddenly all the Egyptian provinces decided to revolt. But before I could find time to grumble for the easy-win WOOLA HRE reappered in Syria and some provinces near it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Funny thing was seeing Ghulam Cavs in German color. I dont know if Germans ever made it into Syria but fighting against the desert archers and ghulams of Germans will be fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

econ21

11-12-2002, 13:50

Sicily is usually strong in my games. I suspect it is the trade income from its fleet coupled with its defensible starting position. If only other AI nations would build a navy to the same degree as the human.

Kraxis

11-12-2002, 14:47

Yeah... I can't say how many times I have thrown the Sicilians back from invasions of Greece and Serbia. I hate how they ally up with the Italians and thus they can keep enough ships in the Adriactic and just below it to invade almost always...

LordKhaine

11-12-2002, 15:21

Byzantines are indeed strange. Weirdest thing I saw was when they went north.... then got pushed into central europe. The actually carved out and held a large central european empire. Made a pleasent change.

Sicilians often do well now it seems... but im more suprised by the Papacy. The Pope holds all of italy in my game, even the north italian provinces. Strange.

Is it me or has the faction balance changed a lot since the patch? Before the Almohads always crushed the Spanish... and now the Spanish have pushed the Almohads out of spain in both my post patch games.

Kraxis

11-12-2002, 21:33

Quote[/b] (LordKhaine @ Nov. 12 2002,08:21)]Is it me or has the faction balance changed a lot since the patch? Before the Almohads always crushed the Spanish... and now the Spanish have pushed the Almohads out of spain in both my post patch games.
There are changes... For instance the Danes are now NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST, making them centered around making landings.

Negative

11-12-2002, 21:43

I've played 2 games so far and Almos still kill Spain. Maybe it's just chance. I hope to see them loose to Spain finally.

insolent1

11-12-2002, 21:45

The Danes still suck in all my pre patch games they manage to take sweden early & loose it in a turn or 2 to a massive revolt of italian infantry, longbow & hobilars. All I can say is how the feck can they be naval expansionist with just income from denemark & all those hungary heirs

insolent1

11-12-2002, 21:47

BTW the almohads should actually be more prevelent now since the catholics can't get a lot of units till high period where as almohads get all their best units early but they loose out on the +2 valour bonus the town guard gave the AUM post patch

Kraxis

11-12-2002, 22:57

Quote[/b] (insolent1 @ Nov. 12 2002,14:45)]The Danes still suck in all my pre patch games they manage to take sweden early & loose it in a turn or 2 to a massive revolt of italian infantry, longbow & hobilars. All I can say is how the feck can they be naval expansionist with just income from denemark & all those hungary heirs
Hey that is very true... I didn't say that it was enough.

The problem is that they need to build a lot of thing to actually get to build Longboats, and they simply don't have the money or time for that. I find it very strange that they don't start out with a Longboat or two like the Italians have two Galleys. The time of Danish people on the seas didn't just end with the Vikings stopping their raids, the skills stayed around as did the ships. It was the largest income on the Danish kings parchments.

hrvojej

11-13-2002, 00:45

Yes, the Sicily is always a major power in my games. I think it has something to do with the Pope blocking the way for others to get to their core provinces, so they can develop them, plus exploit the seas. Their royal line also seems to be good. Eventually they knock out the Pope and spill over in Europe, and since they hold the Balkans from before, they become the power to be reckoned with. In fact, they are probably the most successful Catholic faction overall in my games.

Kraxis

11-13-2002, 01:49

Well, I don't know about being the most powerful, but they are the most secure. Only the player will ever attack them, while they attack everywhere. I have seen them take Cyrenaica, Naples, Greece, Valencia, Crete, Cyprus and Sardinia... It looked very strange with them all over the place and still not overpowering a single faction.

Executor

11-13-2002, 06:13

You want to see strange? I was playing the Spanish (expert) and needed to control the Mediterranean. So I force the Italians out of Italy. Guess where they ended up relocating? To northern Russia They control the whole area around Novgorod, with nothing south of Poland. I'm not even sure how they managed to get there, as the Hungarians, Polish, and Byzantines are still alive and kicking and should have blocked their way.

Rosacrux

11-13-2002, 08:30

Crusading, of course. I have regularely Italians and Spaniards up north, for they launch a crusade or two early on aiming some of the pagan or orthodox states and end up gaining a whole lot of land.

el_slapper

11-13-2002, 14:53

Indeed. Crusading has bizarre effects. Once, as I was crushing the froggies, they sent a crusade vs Pagan Finland. One year later, I finished them off.

20 years later, guess who reappears on Finland & Lithuania? France

+DOC+

11-13-2002, 15:03

I quite like these odd little quirks, it keeps the game interesting and can keep you on your toes.

Doubling the basic provincial income of Denmark goes a long way to helping them.

blackfire83

11-13-2002, 17:04

Executor, I have noticed Italy expanding into some of the rebel provinces in Northern Europe quite often. I assume that this is because they tend to have a large navy and that they are more likely to attack rebels than other factions. I have noticed them taking Pomerania and those ones up there quite often. Don't know if that's true or not.

-blackfire83

Orda Khan

11-13-2002, 18:18

Think I'll have to retry a campaign

........Orda

Executor

11-13-2002, 20:13

Quote[/b] (blackfire83 @ Nov. 13 2002,10:04)]
I crushed the Italian navy before it could expand much beyond Sicily and Malta, and it definitely never got around Spain, so they couldn't have travelled to Russia that way. And can the Italians even launch crusades? At least, I've never seen them do so.