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deutschlanduberalles
11-14-2002, 07:59
All right, I know these guys are considered very good on these forums, but I didn't know why until about 2 hours ago. Switzerland in my game had been producing SAP's for a decade or so and my borders with the Elmo horde (French-German border...yeah, don't ask me how the Elmos managed to take France AND England while holding Russia and Africa as well) and I'd sent the newly produced pikemen to Franconia to retrain them with +4 attack bonus. I managed to get three sent to Denmark to bolster the defenses, and then the Elmos decided they wanted in on some of that sweet Bavarian chocolate and attack me. As an opener they sent 2,500 men at Denmark.

Not good. See, I'd sent the pikemen there because Denmark's defenses before then had consisted of about half a dozen units of FMAA with NO armor or weapon upgrades and no valor at all, not to mention having a commanding general who had no stars. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

So here I was, 400 men or so against 2,500 screaming Elmoheads who were intent on butchering my poor men and serving their genitals in their soup or whatever the heathen Muslim hordes do to good Catholic soldiers once they've slaughtered them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The battle of course didn't start well, with my FMAA somehow getting cut to bits by melee'ing Elmo arbalesters http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif and after routing, were cleaned up by a unit of Elmo ghulam BG's. Meanwhile, I had the SAP in a crop of trees, and despite their being concealed, the Elmos headed right for them and I, muttering about how my men's sacrifice would be avenged tenfold or something equally corny, sent my pikemen out of the trees and prepared for the massacre.

I was not prepared for what happened next. The Elmos sent waves and waves of heavy cavalry, Murabatin infantry, Ghazi infantry, the dreaded AUM's at me, and my SAP brought them all down under their pikes without even seeming to try. Every pikeman in the units was like a mini-Rambo, who just WOULD NOT DIE and was thirsty for blood. Finally, with like two minutes left on the timer, the Elmos attacked my battered pikemen with 9 (counted 'em) units of AUM, surrounded my exhausted men and clashed with them. When the timer finally ran out, my pikemen had not broken, had only suffered half a dozen more casualties from the final AUM onslaught and mauled 4 of the enemy units down to 10 men or less.

The final body count-- out of 144 SAP, 62 gave their lives in defense of our country, and brought down NINE HUNDRED ELMOS. Each SAP gained 4 valor, although I was more than a little disappointed that the only thing the commanding general (of the SAP) gained was a star But even so, I had to pick my jaw up off the floor when the victory sheet listing the casualties popped up.

Maybe posting this kind of stuff here is frowned upon, and if so, I apologize. But I felt I just had to share that with somebody who would understand what I was talking about http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

solypsist
11-14-2002, 08:21
I appreciate what you've posted. Unfortunately (for me) I've tasted the Swiss' steel instead of used it. I lost something like 600 men to their 45 or so.

Ktonos
11-14-2002, 08:29
Well, I am married to Kataphraktous and in love with Varangian Guards. I recall a similar to yours combat experience, when as Byzantine I had to defend Bulgaria from the Almos. They had about 2000-3000 and I 900. After the first 30 min my whole army fled leaving 3 units of Varangian Guards and 1 spearmen. I retreated into the woods, formed a square and waited the attackers waves. The Guards eliminated all infantry waves and what I loved about the battle was the fact that after the first 4-5 assaults of cavalry and infantry, the enemy units fled each time they moved closer than 10 meters to mine, without a fight.

Warmaker
11-14-2002, 08:55
Desperate stands with a small number of defenders against a large attacking horde is always exciting. No mistakes allowed

Ktonos
11-14-2002, 09:16
What is more exciting is a desperate assault with a small number of attackers/commandos against a heavily garrisoned province.

Jagger
11-14-2002, 09:28
I have only run into the SAP a couple of times. A couple of times too many. They are some tough dudes....

Postino
11-14-2002, 10:26
yeo, even with the A.I. valor fixed and cav fixed, they can still tear them down. i just got them in my current campaign.

3 SAP and a bridge. you need nothing more.

Shahed
11-14-2002, 10:39
Quote[/b] (deutschlanduberalles @ Nov. 14 2002,06:59)]
Hey I guess this must have been pre patch ?.

monkian
11-14-2002, 10:47
Damn the patch- I used to love being able to churn out SAP in Wessex http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

I know, I know it makes it more realistic but still.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

deutschlanduberalles
11-14-2002, 15:27
I can't get the patch working for some reason (read as: I'm an idiot) and I can still make SAP in all my territories. However, I feel guilty about it, and I only actually make them in Switzerland and then send them somewhere else for +attack. I figure, hey, the Franks can equip the Swiss with better pikes even if they can't actually train the units--they're the metalsmiths of my empire http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif