The Illustrious Prince Yusuf

[barocca]

The year is 1112AD,
The Illustriuos Prince Yusuf has just had his butt handed to him on a plate by Christian Rebels for the Third time,
his bodyguard is in bad shape(4 men left), his Third Army in tatters, and daddy awards him with the vice Skilled Attacker
What The...???

I have been watching portugal for some time,
The first time my emissary met The Illustriuos Prince Yusuf he reported Yusuf is a Hedonist, no other V&V's,
the following year Christian rebels kicked him out of Portugal, decimating his army in the process,
he gained the vice Charismatic,

2 years later and heavily reinforced he reconquered Portugal, no V&V gained.

The Following year the Christain rebels rose again, and despite further reinforcements from daddy he was again chased out, this time his men annihilated.
He gained the vice Natural Leader.

he reconquered but gained no V&V, and now he is a 7 star general. But when he loses to the rebels, yet again, he gains Skilled Attacker?

I am sorely tempted to reload the game from a save somewhere way back when and watch The Illustriuos Prince Yusuf go thorough this process all over again, but I have had a number of very narrow victories againtst overwhelming odds and I am not in the mood to fight them again...

My Question is what the heck is going on?
If i withdraw from a battle my gen gets a bad vice,
The Illustriuos Prince Yusuf can do no wrong,
and gains good V&V's for losing?
OK he does not seem to gain V&V's for winning, but to gain good ones when losing, and never get a bad V&V?

I also had the Aragon King invade one of my provinces, he lost, but did gain a bad V&V.
Are all the Almohad Gen's like The Illustriuos Prince Yusuf?
Or does this particular prince lead a charmed life?

[Fearless]

Looks like there's going to have to be more work for the modders'.........................FRUSTRATING isn't it Just when you think everything is playing OK with the installed patch.....WHAM something else crops up

[deutschlanduberalles]

Yeah, I really hate the way vices and virtues work against you 99% of the time....I had a great general get attacked by an Almohad horde who outnumbered him 6 to 1, and after 2 hours, all my men ripped to shreds, 500 casualties on my side and 2500 on the Almohad side, my men finally said F this and routed and I lost, and my previously top notch general got a bunch of nasty vices and suddenly became worthless. Great. Time to strip him of his titles and relegate him to Switzerland garrison duty http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Pachinko]

LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Quote[/b] ] Great. Time to strip him of his titles and relegate him to Switzerland garrison duty[http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif]

[Nobunaga0611]

Yeah I noticed this as well while playing as the Spanish. I'm not sure if it was Yusuf, but it definitely was an heir. The Rebels and the Almohads went back and forth each year for about 10 or so years (where I am currently in the campaign). I've decided to just let them duke it out for a while, because these rebels are weakening the almohad armies, which i currently don't have enough free me to take on myself, due to the French....anyways. Vices and virtues do seem to work in the AI's favor, and they never have any vices revealed, no matter what you do. blah http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[MagyarKhans Cham]

yusuf like in yousouf?

[barocca]

yusuf as in yusuf,
an Almohad prince,

Perhaps, just perhaps, the AI does not gain bad vices as easily as human players because the AI quite often uses it's best gens to "scout" provinces,
probing with a small force and withdrawing when appropriate...

I did notice pre patch that AI gens had so many bad vices that (despite the number of command stars) they were almost useless, and the AI never seemed to "sack" it'as bad generals.

Perhaps this is a way to ensure a challenge for the human player?

[youssof_Toda]

What is all this gossip about? Ofcourse I can do no wrong what you expect http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[econ21]

Barocca: yes, I noticed that they toned down the AI vices in the patch. A major improvement, IMHO, almost as important as toning down the kamikaze daimyo's in the original Shogun. One defeat pre-patch in MTW and the AI became hamstrung due to cowardice. Post-patch, they still can get bad vices but need a lot more hammering and tend to die from your spears sooner or later anyway
I don't mind the lower chance of a human virtue too much, although sometimes you feel you've earned a reward.
I wonder if it is symmetrical? Do the humans still always get vices from running or losing? I suspect they do. On a related question, what happens if you withdraw your leader's unit from a losing battle (Napoleon in Russia springs to mind&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif? What, if any vice, does he get?

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Simon Appleton @ Nov. 14 2002,08:17)]On a related question, what happens if you withdraw your leader's unit from a losing battle (Napoleon in Russia springs to mind&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif? What, if any vice, does he get?
The Vice(s) related to this one is Eager to Retreat (Most Eager and Very Eager after that) and Hesistant (when you call off an attack when you see more troops in the province).

I feel they come too easily. A great defensive battle where your general sold the victory dearly should not give him Eager to Retreat. They are really hurting as the Valours gained from Ranks (starts) does not give any Morale, while those Vices gives a penalty to that very fast, and positive Morale Virtues are so very hard to get. In fact I don't know what to do to get positive Morale Virtues, besides sending the general into melee and hope he get a Great Leader or sometihng.

It looks silly that half your Valour 4-5 army has -2 to -4 Morale.