Next Total War Game

[Dorozhand]

In what setting would you guys really like the next Total War game to take place?

Personally, I would love a game set during the Chinese Warring States Period. The era is perfect, with great feudal kingdoms and dynastic lines fighting one another with massive infantry and cavalry armies numbering in the millions of men, across a varied landscape with many great and cultured cities. It could include such awesomeness as riverine naval combat, the repeating crossbow, and the Great Walls. The rise of competing social and administrative doctrines like Confucianism, Mohism, and Legalism, as well as military ideas such as those in the Art of War, the shift from chariots to mounted cavalry, and from bronze to iron weaponry, as well as agricultural reforms and the dynamics of land ownership, would make for a richly varied tech tree. The collapse of the Jin state into Wei, Zhao, and Han, the barbarian states of the west, north, and south, as well as the absorption of the smaller states by the larger ones would create varied power struggles that wouldn't be the same in any two games. Shoot, there could even be a BI style expansion about the fall of the Han Dynasty and the rise of the Three Kingdoms.

What are your thoughts?

[Rex Somnorum]

Except, of course, there would be practically no unit variety, and the playing style of each faction would be identical. Shogun II was one title ago, why not try the seventeenth century? There aren't even that many mods that cover the time period. Or maybe a game set in the near east starting in 1200 BC - a map stretching from Libya to India, the steppes to Arabia. Forge an Assyrian empire or struggle for freedom as Judah.

[Dorozhand]

Except, of course, there would be practically no unit variety, and the playing style of each faction would be identical. Shogun II was one title ago, why not try the seventeenth century? There aren't even that many mods that cover the time period. Or maybe a game set in the near east starting in 1200 BC - a map stretching from Libya to India, the steppes to Arabia. Forge an Assyrian empire or struggle for freedom as Judah.

That simply isn't true. The factions near the borders in the north and south, like Zhao, Chu, Qin, and especially Yan will have to have very different military styles and patterns from the states in the center like Song, Lu, Cai, or Cao. States near the steppe and the barbarian factions will be naturally inclined towards mounted cavalry heavy armies while the central states wouldn't have as much use for cavalry and will find infantry development more important. Furthermore, the states had very different cultures from one another, and even different outlooks.

The Qin were a harsh people who lived far to the west of where the centre of power was, they may have been descended from barbarians and so had a motivation to prove themselves, their land wasn't as agriculturally bountiful as the rest of the states, they were far from the sea, and had wide open spaces to expand to, fighting their first wars of conquest against the Shu and Ba states.

The Yan were far to the north, and their land hugged the sea. They constantly had to deal with barbarian incursions, and had to fight both the Zhao and the Qi to survive.

The Zhao were a state far to the north and west and constantly beset by barbarians, which led to the development and adoption of mounted cavalry for the first time in Chinese warfare which had previously been chariot driven.

The Chu were a very large state to the south, that had an idiosyncratic culture quite different from their northern counterparts. They were never close to the coast but thier land was very fertile, hugging the Yangtze which at this time formed the periphery of China Proper. They dealt with the equally different and idiosyncratic barbarian states of the south, like the Yue.

The Qi were a highly cultured state and among the most ancient of all of them. Their preferred military style was to play the states against one another and join on the side of the underdog to preserve the balance of power.

The Wei state is beset on all sides by enemies and in order to survive must fight hard defensively and choose its alliances carefully.

The Song, Cai, and Cao states are very small, but their populations are dense. If they can play their cards right, they can gain power at the expense of the others and supplant dominance in certain regions. For example, the Lu have the potential to overthrow the Qi if they have the right alliances.

etc.

Each faction, as you can see, has a very distinctive style and different military, sociopolitical, and economic needs to be met. They have different influences which bred distinctive unit types.

[Dorozhand]

However, I agree with you that a game based on the bronze age would be insanely awesome too ~:cool:
I'm imagining something around the 1500s BC, with factions like New Kingdom Egypt, the Hittite Empire, Nubia, Assyria, Babylon, the Canaanite city states, Judah, the Medians, the Mycenaean Greeks and the Minoans, and the Indus Valley Civilization. The time period is really interesting the latter regard because it's right around the time of the Aryan invasion. The map could be something like a larger and more detailed version of the Alexander expansion for RTW, with a bit more of India and Africa.

[Rex Somnorum]

snip

I understand that there would be nuanced differences between the factions and that outside influences would have a more profound influence on frontier countries. However, I don't think the differences would be as distinct as Romans vs Parthians, for instance. To me, it would seem like a larger version of Shogun II - which would probably make a good game, but I just prefer a setting closer to home. That might seem biased, but I can identify more with the Near East than I can the Far East.

And there is the possibility that CA has abandoned Total War. It would explain a lot.

[Dorozhand]

And there is the possibility that CA has abandoned Total War. It would explain a lot.

Sadly, it would. I really hope they haven't, but given the rather disappointing Rome II and ETW, we might be seeing the end ~:mecry:

[CaptainCrunch]

Personally, another TW game by the same development team, or just CA in general, isn't something I'd be interested in at this point. I'll just leave it at that though cuz I don't wanna derail this thread :grin:

[ReluctantSamurai]

Amen.

And they would need to get rid of the Warscape engine....too many quirks and inconsistencies.

[Myth]

Stone age up to late bronze/early iron age or the fall of rome up until the conquest of England by William. Also +1 to new engine and a new vision of what makesa good tw game. And by new i mean a look back at the pre ETW games.

[Kamakazi]

I like the Chinese ideal. The three kingdoms period would be sweet

[easytarget]

China I doubt will ever happen, but I for one would love to see it just so I could enjoy the incessant howling by the same crowd that cried about Shogun 2. Can you imagine the noise they'd make complaining how we've already done that region recently...haha

[The Outsider]

Any game that would cover bronze age, up to the dark ages would be good. I always wanted to see a total war game like viking invasion that focuses on whole europe instead of just britain. However i must point out that with the current trend of quality by CA, even the best era will suck as a game. Some serious reforms must be made.

[Dorozhand]

I once had a vague idea for an RTW mod about the warring states period called "Huangdi: Total War". The game would begin in the mid to late Spring and Autumn Period, the playble factions being the Qi, Yan, Qin, Chu, Lu, Song, Cai, Cao, Zheng, Chen, Xu, Wu, Ba, Shu, Wei, Zhao, Han, Xiongnu barbarians, and the rump Zhou domain around Luoyang. The Wei, Zhao, and Han factions would be the equivalent of the Julii, Scipii, and Brutii and would be tied together at the beginning to the state of Jin. The fall of the republic in RTW would be used to represent the fall of the Jin state. The Marian Reforms would be used to represent the major transition between Chariots and mounted cavalry, and feudal levies to professional armies which form the boundary between the S&A and the WSP. Of course, the player who conquers or vassalizes all of the Chinese factions and takes the city of Luoyang wins, becoming the first Huangdi of all China.

[al Roumi]

Anyone taking bets on Medieval 3?

To my mind, the setting is important but I've got so many TW games now that I'd really just like one that's good. So for me, the more important question is: how broad will the campaign be?

Shogun, from the start has been a near perfect balance of size and scope. The 3d maps since R1 only work if pathing is extremely contricted by mountains (heaps of them in Japan) or other features (e.g. forests) - witness the huge problems of lost AI armies in R1 and Empire. Napoleon is simply too condensed for me: I want a multitude of factions and genuine options. But finding a balance which works with history is hard - especially when you introduce "technology" (through building chains or research).

[Dorozhand]

Anyone taking bets on Medieval 3?

To my mind, the setting is important but I've got so many TW games now that I'd really just like one that's good. So for me, the more important question is: how broad will the campaign be?

Shogun, from the start has been a near perfect balance of size and scope. The 3d maps since R1 only work if pathing is extremely contricted by mountains (heaps of them in Japan) or other features (e.g. forests) - witness the huge problems of lost AI armies in R1 and Empire. Napoleon is simply too condensed for me: I want a multitude of factions and genuine options. But finding a balance which works with history is hard - especially when you introduce "technology" (through building chains or research).

I would personally love it, but IIRC CA has repeatedly stated that it will never be made.

[Sp4]

I don't really care what they make. I'm more interested in how they make it at this point. I want to see if they've learned anything.

[Empire*Of*Media]

However, I agree with you that a game based on the bronze age would be insanely awesome too ~:cool:
I'm imagining something around the 1500s BC, with factions like New Kingdom Egypt, the Hittite Empire, Nubia, Assyria, Babylon, the Canaanite city states, Judah, the Medians, the Mycenaean Greeks and the Minoans, and the Indus Valley Civilization. The time period is really interesting the latter regard because it's right around the time of the Aryan invasion. The map could be something like a larger and more detailed version of the Alexander expansion for RTW, with a bit more of India and Africa.

yes i agree and love it! no mod game or anything has covered those important periods of humanity because its a period of Starting The First POWERFUL Civilizations and Nations! indeed Hindians Egyptians Medians Assyrians Judaeans and all those clashed with Babylon and Assyrias and........Also Ionians & etc.

indeed it was the a very period for Human History and Its Civilization......

[ReluctantSamurai]

Chances of this happening are slim to none. I would venture that a majority of potential TW gamers don't even know where these civilizations were located, and what time period they were in existence.

[Wilbo]

I'd more than happily take Warhammer, Peloponesian War, a further Alexander, Ancient Near East (Assyria etc), or Warring States.

More than happy with the current engine and approach - though I prefer the scale of Shogun II.

[mini]

I don't really care what they make. I'm more interested in how they make it at this point. I want to see if they've learned anything.

as long as ppl keep buying, they don't care what we think.
And they're right. They count dollars, not forum posts, however justified those posts are.

[easytarget]

Poor work takes time to for the effects to be felt.

[Sp4]

as long as ppl keep buying, they don't care what we think.
And they're right. They count dollars, not forum posts, however justified those posts are.

Well, I'm not pre-ordering the next TW game. I'll wait and see what those who do have to say about it before doing that shit again ^^