Scotland's PUL community

[Rhyfelwyr]

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[Sarmatian]

I don't understand what you're trying to say with this. Granted that may be because I didn't understand the people in the video.

[Husar]

In the video they are "rooting" for England and saying Scotland should stay in the UK. That one guy mentions that Scotland would be far worse off without England but doesn't make a scientifically sound statement out of it and does not cite any sources or proof.

I think Rhyf's point is that because of this, the video creator and others make fun of people like the ones in the video, laughing at them and calling them idiots. Rhyf's point is that these are honest working class people who economically have a very hard time and cannot be expected to express themselves like nobility and that people who make fun of them are meanies.
I think part of the point is also that some multicultural immigrant Scottish people who are pro-independence make fun of these pro-unionists even though immigrants should be for linking countries instead of "keeping to oneself" since the latter attitude usually prevents immigration. And that rich people are more likely to think independence is beneficial for them, unlike poor people, who like the support that Scotland receives from England but are mocked for their unfortunate history by the independensionists.

That's what I got from the post at least.

[Strike For The South]

The working class is disgusting

[Sigurd]

They call Alan Cumming a :daisy: and a granny shagger.
Well... the majority of Council Hens in Rangers territory are grannies at the age of 30... and Cumming is 49 now?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Are the rangers any good?

[InsaneApache]

I used to live in Saltcoats. :creep:

All this is down to that cretin Blair who thought he could appease the 'Nats' by giving them devolution and by the way, ensure a Labour government in perpetuity. What he hadn't planned on, him being a cretin, is that the 'Nats, would actually be the default government of Scotland.

Fast forwards 15 years and now we face the prospect of the break up of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. If people thought that Blair would be remembered for the Iraq fiasco, I would say this. If the Scots vote to leave, he will be remembered as the Prime Minister that lost the UK.

A 21st century Lord North. No wonder he abolished the Treason Act. His head should be on London Bridge!


Are the rangers any good?

:quiet: shh

As Basil Faulty would say, "Don't mention the war".

[Rhyfelwyr]

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[HoreTore]

Ship the idiots back to Ulster then.

[Rhyfelwyr]

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[InsaneApache]

The way the lefties think is indeed bizarre.

[Husar]

People on the so-called left of the political spectrum can be extremely arrogant and condescending, as can people on the right, in the middle, below and above, in front and behind, before and after. I think that covers all four dimensions of the political spectrum.

Tl;dr: People are problematic.[/Montmorency/Bijo]

Maybe we need a PUL member who pretends to be an uneducated pro-europe racist to win the next Eurovision so we can claim that Europe is finally tolerant towards PULs and accepts their innate lifestyle choices.

[InsaneApache]

It won't happen. You'd never get a Weegie in a frock.

[HoreTore]

And ship the blacks back to Africa.
And ship the Asians back to Asia.

Absolutely disgraceful and here we have a great example in our own Norwegian lefty of the hypocrisy that the Scottish left (heck, and centre and most of the right as well) show towards the PUL community.

Then let the idiots stay in a multicultural Scotland, then.

I see no problems here.

[Sigurd]

Alex Salmond, not Alan Cummings.

Who?
Anyway this guy is in his 60th year and would be a cradle robber.

[Rhyfelwyr]

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[HoreTore]

You don't have any problems with making a mockery of one of the most deprived groups in society?

No, why?

Conservative lifestyles exists to be mocked.

And the Rangers fans deserve the same fate as their club. Bunch of wankers.

[Greyblades]

...they're not like that because they're conservative, you elitist fool, they're like that because they were born poor in a society increasingly designed to keep them that way.

[Beskar]

The guy at 1:14 (http://youtu.be/pmGjiokfQ2A?t=1m14s)makes some good points and sort of shows up the 'posh looking guy' who seems rather clueless with his "I dunno lol". He talks about how the Union brings prosperity to Scotland and he leaves that leaving Britain would weaken the both of them, and put Scotland especially 'in the dumps' saying that in Ireland, the difference economy is very evident and how Welfare support will drop to £10 a week, saying he would have to consider going south of the border, perhaps to Wales because of his fears of the living conditions.

Other than some hyperboles, how is this opinion an irrational expression? How is that person anyway 'bad' ?

So in short, I don't 'get' it as it seems I am severely missing some point or mockery of the PUL community.

[InsaneApache]

So in short, I don't 'get' it as it seems I am severely missing some point

It's called reality.

:wall:

[HoreTore]

...they're not like that because they're conservative, you elitist fool, they're like that because they were born poor in a society increasingly designed to keep them that way.

I am such an elitist fool that I didn't watch the movie at all - so all I know about them are Rhy's text in the OP which I assumed fit into the same mould as many of his other posts concerning "white trash". That, plus them being Rangers fans. That automatically means it's safe to disregard them as idiots.

I won't ever watch a video on politics online. Ever.

If it isn't in text, it's not worth the time.

[Sigurd]

Who? What? I'm confused now. Google-fu reveals Alan Cummings to be an actor. Salmond is leader of the SNP, the party which brought up the independence issue.
Alan Cummings on Scottish independence (http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/actor-cummings-launches-twitter-campaign-to-support-yes-campaign.1397306065), here (http://www.express.co.uk/scotland/439004/Flat-refusal-of-star-Alan-Cumming-s-referendum-vote-plan)and here (http://www.scotsman.com/news/celebrity/alan-cumming-buys-edinburgh-flat-for-yes-vote-1-3155077) + interview (http://www.wsoctv.com/videos/news/alan-cumming-on-scottish-independence/vCTnB4/).

Always had a problem understanding toothless ramblings around Govan. And you should have seen through the satire in my first post. Blinded by political enragement you are.

[HoreTore]

Conservative life-styles exist to be mocked? All of them? So I suppose all progressive life-styles are to be venerated then? Is the world of HoreTore's dreams a world where all thoughts of conservation, whether it be conservation of resources, territory, or values, are thoughts to be abandoned? Would you put a heroin-addled musician who votes progressive and lives in the hippest urban area over this offensive scotsman who, despite his shortcomings, probably works for a living?

You're very aware I was talking of political conservatism... And yes, those who desire to keep the world as it is (or more commonly, how it was 50-ish years ago) should always be mocked, with or without a job.

And the hippie should get a haircut and a job. Lousy hippies.

[HoreTore]

Just making sure, just making sure. Either way, though, to deny that political conservatism has any merit is only slightly less silly.

To be more specific, my gripe is with those who desire others to keep to the 'good ol' ways'.

You know, the old, white and retired ones who yells at the kids for skateboarding on the sidewalks. And of relevance to this thread, those who throws a hissy fit when they get a dark-skinned neighbor.

[a completely inoffensive name]

ITT: HoreTore equates lamenting about bad political reorganization with racist old people.

I hope HoreTore never asks why his favorite restaurant took an item off the menu, because asking for it back is equivalent to racism.

[Beskar]

It's called reality.

:wall:

And how are his concerns not connected to reality?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The guy at 1:14 (http://youtu.be/pmGjiokfQ2A?t=1m14s)makes some good points and sort of shows up the 'posh looking guy' who seems rather clueless with his "I dunno lol". He talks about how the Union brings prosperity to Scotland and he leaves that leaving Britain would weaken the both of them, and put Scotland especially 'in the dumps' saying that in Ireland, the difference economy is very evident and how Welfare support will drop to £10 a week, saying he would have to consider going south of the border, perhaps to Wales because of his fears of the living conditions.

Other than some hyperboles, how is this opinion an irrational expression? How is that person anyway 'bad' ?

So in short, I don't 'get' it as it seems I am severely missing some point or mockery of the PUL community.

The video was made by secessionists with the intention of presenting loyalists as football hooligans - Rhy isn't upset about what they say, he's upset about how they are being presented. The idea is to link "Loyalist" and "hooligan" in people's minds, making loyalism distasteful. You can tell this by the musical cues, the camera work and editing, and by the chosen context (going to/coming from a football match).

HoreTore's comment about sending them back to Ireland is just disgusting, but it demonstrates the effect on the intended audience - he now associates loyalism with social deviance.

You can actually see how distasteful the prissy little Edinburgh university boy sees these people by how far away from his body he's holding the microphone, and the fact that he's standing behind the camera.

[HoreTore]

HoreTore's comment about sending them back to Ireland is just disgusting, but it demonstrates the effect on the intended audience - he now associates loyalism with social deviance.

That could have been true - if I had actually watched the video in question...

And I don't really care about loyalism, my comment was based on football fans and conservatism(in general).

And the sooner Scotland can ship the Rangers(and Celtic) fans out of the country, the better.

[Pannonian]

The video was made by secessionists with the intention of presenting loyalists as football hooligans - Rhy isn't upset about what they say, he's upset about how they are being presented. The idea is to link "Loyalist" and "hooligan" in people's minds, making loyalism distasteful. You can tell this by the musical cues, the camera work and editing, and by the chosen context (going to/coming from a football match).

HoreTore's comment about sending them back to Ireland is just disgusting, but it demonstrates the effect on the intended audience - he now associates loyalism with social deviance.

You can actually see how distasteful the prissy little Edinburgh university boy sees these people by how far away from his body he's holding the microphone, and the fact that he's standing behind the camera.

Personally, I find much more in common with fellow football supporters, even of rival clubs, than with people who don't like football at all.

[HoreTore]

Personally, I find much more in common with fellow football supporters, even of rival clubs, than with people who don't like football at all.

There's an extreme difference between a football fan and a hooligan.

[Pannonian]

There's an extreme difference between a football fan and a hooligan.

I don't think those who look down their noses at football fans is any better than the worse end of football hooligans, in terms of how I'd mix with their type. While football fans collect in their tribal groups, there is also an understanding that, on certain things, those tribal divisions dissolve for mutual, generally humanistic interests. In some ways, football is the ultimate in multiculturalism, as it forces other cultural trends to take a backseat to another cultural trend, its own, which is both inclusive as a tribe and appealingly exclusive, and which further expresses a cultural code that is inclusive on a wider level. I haven't watched the video, but if these guys are still Rangers fans after their travails, I have every sympathy with them, and contempt for anyone who mocks them. "Where were you when we were :daisy:?" I'm proud of my answer. I'm proud of their answer too.

[Rhyfelwyr]

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[HoreTore]

I don't think those who look down their noses at football fans is any better than the worse end of football hooligans, in terms of how I'd mix with their type. While football fans collect in their tribal groups, there is also an understanding that, on certain things, those tribal divisions dissolve for mutual, generally humanistic interests. In some ways, football is the ultimate in multiculturalism, as it forces other cultural trends to take a backseat to another cultural trend, its own, which is both inclusive as a tribe and appealingly exclusive, and which further expresses a cultural code that is inclusive on a wider level. I haven't watched the video, but if these guys are still Rangers fans after their travails, I have every sympathy with them, and contempt for anyone who mocks them. "Where were you when we were :daisy:?" I'm proud of my answer. I'm proud of their answer too.

My life revolves around football. I love everything about it. The game, the atmosphere, the attitude, everything. I spend every other Sunday at the stadium during the season, and I travel to England to watch Championship level and below games during the winter. Not because of the standard of football, but because I absolutely love the fans and atmosphere in the English lower leagues.

Still, there's nothing I loathe more than hooligans. They ruin our sport. They chase away fans by their refusal to act like decent adults. A section of a stadium or a game where a father can't bring his 6-year old son means we've lost. Hooligans keep these fathers from bringing their sons to games.

The Rangers and Celtic fans(hooligans) in particular, along with fans like Millwall and West Ham, do this. They should all burn in hell for ruining the greatest game on earth.


Ugh, why do I bother?

Why take every word posted on the intertubes literally?

But my comment on never watching political videos online should be taken literally.

I'm very much in favour of raising the destitute, Rhy. But I do not see why that should mean restricting immigration or "multiculturalism", nor do I see why it's important that they live in the UK rather than an independent Scotland.

As far as the latter is concerned, what I see is that they find themselves in inadequate living conditions after centuries of British rule. How then can continued British rule improve their situation? And so, how can Scottish rule be any worse?

[Pannonian]

My life revolves around football. I love everything about it. The game, the atmosphere, the attitude, everything. I spend every other Sunday at the stadium during the season, and I travel to England to watch Championship level and below games during the winter. Not because of the standard of football, but because I absolutely love the fans and atmosphere in the English lower leagues.

Still, there's nothing I loathe more than hooligans. They ruin our sport. They chase away fans by their refusal to act like decent adults. A section of a stadium or a game where a father can't bring his 6-year old son means we've lost. Hooligans keep these fathers from bringing their sons to games.

The Rangers and Celtic fans(hooligans) in particular, along with fans like Millwall and West Ham, do this. They should all burn in hell for ruining the greatest game on earth.

I'll give your props then for being able to talk knowledgably about football and football culture. Although in the spirit of one-downmanship, I've actually paid to watch non-league football.

FWIW, I respect all football fans, but my own club is infamous for being the opposite of hooligan-ridden.

[HoreTore]

I'll give your props then for being able to talk knowledgably about football and football culture. Although in the spirit of one-downmanship, I've actually paid to watch non-league football.

My siggy should've clued you in though ~;)

I had a dream of seeing AFC Wimbledon's first ever football league match... Sadly, I didn't get the chance to do so...


FWIW, I respect all football fans

I don't consider the imbeciles(like many of the ones in the OP video, I'm sure) who make other people stay at home to be football fans at all. They're drunkards, hooligans and lowlifes, and nothing more. Hang 'em all, I say.

[Rhyfelwyr]

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[HoreTore]

I know your comments here were not in response to me, but I just want to make clear that the culture surrounding the football clubs of Rangers and Celtic is only a very small part of the story of Ulster-Scots Protestantism/loyalism and Irish Catholicism/republicanism in Scotland.

I see Rangers and Celtic as adults who refuse to act like adults.


Your attitude in this thread shows to me that behind your ideology and academic viewpoints, at a more visceral level, you find the masses to be detestable.

I'm not part of "the masses"...?


You could have listened to any of the concerns raised in the video (unemployment, poor benefits, homelessness, etc), but instead you chose the one comment on immigration and used that as an excuse for your hatred.

That was the comment I picked up on, yes. Not from watching the video(I didn't), but from your OP and previous posts in this forum.

But I can ask directly then: are these guys nationalists? Are their demands nationalist in nature?


Because a decline in Britishness, in the British state, and in British institutions has gone hand in hand with the decline of a once strong, vibrant working-class Protestant community, and its recession into some sort of lumpenprole "white trash" underclass. There is a deep hatred within respectable Scottish society of the PUL community and everything they stand for, and if parliament is reduced from the British to the Scottish level, then this hatred will be focused in a much more concentrated and untamed way.

So, the British government has turned the "vibrant Protestant community" into a white trash lumpenproletariat, but the British government is the guarantee for the well-being of the PUL community....?

That makes no sense.



Also, do we have here a group of immigrants who refuse to integrate properly into their new host country, clings to their owns ways and demands the majority to cater to their needs instead of treating every citizen as equals? What does that situation remind you of?

[Beskar]

As PVC pointed out, look at the whole way the video is composed. It basically amounts to "lol poor people".

I was attempting to make a different point, but it appears I failed in my delivery. It doesn't matter. :bow:

[Papewaio]

It won't happen. You'd never get a Weegie in a frock.

How about a kilt? I'm sure there are some bearded kilt wearing Scots... Are none of them PULs?