View Full Version : The disgusting organization that is FIFA
a completely inoffensive name
06-10-2014, 01:27
AKA why I am glad America doesn't jump for joy over this sadistic sport.
http://youtu.be/DlJEt2KU33I
Yes, I am being very hyperbolic. But you know what, the worst that can happen in US sports is for Adam Silver to rig the refs so that they force a game 6 or 7. FIFA promotes the deaths of thousands of slaves.
What a joke if it wasn't so very sad.
EDIT: Before I head off for groceries, I want to pose a question for those that have not seen this thread yet. Can anyone tell me why we allow organizations like FIFA and the IOC to host giant sporting events in underdeveloped countries with atrocious poverty and human rights issues? Why can't we dedicate a few square miles for a neutral ground that hosts the event every time?
Ugh, I refuse to base anything on what John Oliver says. Do you have any less.... distorted sources? He provides a combination of humor and his own personal bias- neither of which give a very nuanced view of anything. He's good for entertainment value- terrible for informational value.
Mind you, I hate soccer (and most professional sports), so I'm inclined to believe most anything bad about it- but not from him. :clown:
a completely inoffensive name
06-10-2014, 01:37
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars-world-cup-slaves
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Qatar
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-News-Wires/2014/0609/Adidas-FIFA-corruption-allegations-must-be-investigated
I could probably get more if I spent 30 min or so. But just googling for 5 min came up with these.
Can anyone tell me why we allow organizations like FIFA and the IOC to host giant sporting events in underdeveloped countries with atrocious poverty and human rights issues? Why can't we dedicate a few square miles for a neutral ground that hosts the event every time? I think, at least in the case of the IOC, more developed countries are beginning to realize what a colossal waste of money hosting the olympics is.
Third world countries or ones with less than stellar reputations still want the prestige of major events like this- they're less concerned with the financial losses.
Only way to 'fix' FIFA would be to create a new one and have everyone abandon FIFA.
But I have a feeling it would be in the same boat as when the USA talks about the 'World Series' and the only countries participating is them and Canada.
Papewaio
06-10-2014, 03:47
At that level sports is a money making entertainment machine with lots of snouts in the trough. This is just a very visible view of big business and politics.
Not going to watch a single match. They are tearing down peoples houses and dislocating people in Brazil to build fancy stadiums, it's sick. These people don't have anything.
Rhyfelwyr
06-10-2014, 06:25
According to Sepp we are all just racist (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/09/sepp-blatter-fifa-qatar), and presumably we just can't stand to see Asians hosting the world cup.
Greyblades
06-10-2014, 07:27
He's good for entertainment value- terrible for informational value.
So he's like every other American news network.
Sarmatian
06-10-2014, 07:55
It's not FIFA's fault Brazil built a stadium in Manaus.
FIFA's got a basic strategy, popularisation of football and improvement of football infrastructure.
Brazil improved their football infrastructure and the cost will be offset by money they make. They could have spent the money more wisely, but they didn't and it's their fault. USA managed to make money off the WC, so it's doable.
It's not FIFA's fault Brazil built a stadium in Manaus.
Fifa got turned down here because they demanded an extra freeway for FIFA executives. I have little doubt that they demanded to have these slums removed to please their sponsors. If I celebrate this WC I would feel dirty. There is something deeply wrong with FIFA, dirty money laundring.
Well, even if the countries are the ones creating the atrocities, you can blame FIFA for enabling and encouraging them by giving them the events. And FIFA operates from Switzerland, so good luck getting any legal leverage on them. The entire country lives off of managers like Blatter who syphon money off from other parts of the world and bring it there.
Seamus Fermanagh
06-10-2014, 13:47
FIFA is following a normal organizational track. Organizations almost always begin with their "objective" (drilling for oil, making computers, providing childcare) as their focus. As the organization enlarges and matures, however, organizational politics (and usually a bit of personal empire-building) inevitably become as or more important to the organization's members than is their stated objective.
A new organization supplanting FIFA would seem to be a "breath of fresh air" at first, but as it acquired membership and ubiquity akin to FIFA it would also acquire the same level of institutionalized organizational politics etc.
Everything old is new again....and vice versa.
Well, even if the countries are the ones creating the atrocities, you can blame FIFA for enabling and encouraging them by giving them the events. And FIFA operates from Switzerland, so good luck getting any legal leverage on them. The entire country lives off of managers like Blatter who syphon money off from other parts of the world and bring it there.And you can thank the fans for attending the matches, watching them on TV and buying team paraphernalia. Without them, eagerly handing over their money, the whole organization would quickly cease to exist.
And you can thank the fans for attending the matches, watching them on TV and buying team paraphernalia. Without them, eagerly handing over their money, the whole organization would quickly cease to exist.
Yes, just like the US Army then.
The Lurker Below
06-11-2014, 16:58
Religions tend to frown upon participating in other religions. As most Americans already worship at the big organized churches like the NFL and/or NBA and/or MLB, futbol will continue to be a minority cult here.
And these religions put on the pressure early. The competitive baseball coach (me) pressured my boys to limit their soccer participation so they could be in more baseball. The high school basketball coach pressures them now to leave football alone so they can get an early start on basketball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyv905Q2omU&feature=kp
Yes, just like the US Army then.
Umm... not exactly. :dizzy2:
a completely inoffensive name
06-12-2014, 04:34
Well, even if the countries are the ones creating the atrocities, you can blame FIFA for enabling and encouraging them by giving them the events. And FIFA operates from Switzerland, so good luck getting any legal leverage on them. The entire country lives off of managers like Blatter who syphon money off from other parts of the world and bring it there.
FIFA is following a normal organizational track. Organizations almost always begin with their "objective" (drilling for oil, making computers, providing childcare) as their focus. As the organization enlarges and matures, however, organizational politics (and usually a bit of personal empire-building) inevitably become as or more important to the organization's members than is their stated objective.
A new organization supplanting FIFA would seem to be a "breath of fresh air" at first, but as it acquired membership and ubiquity akin to FIFA it would also acquire the same level of institutionalized organizational politics etc.
Everything old is new again....and vice versa.
So as I suggested in the original post. Couldn't many of these problems simply be solved (if we were able to push for this choice) by designating a plot of land somewhere to be "FIFA land" and hosting the world cup there every time?
Sarmatian
06-12-2014, 13:36
So as I suggested in the original post. Couldn't many of these problems simply be solved (if we were able to push for this choice) by designating a plot of land somewhere to be "FIFA land" and hosting the world cup there every time?
Hosting the World Cup is a great honour and privilege and the host country gets many benefits. It is an excellent way to justify vast investment in football (and sports in general) infrastructure and have the investment return for the most part almost immediately.
Developed countries, like USA and Germany, didn't have to build new stadia or transport infrastructure, or only had to build a few and they managed to make a lot of money on it. Brazil needs new stadia (maybe not as much as they have built) and needs transport infrastructure. No one's going to take it away after WC. Asphalt, rails and stations will be there for future use.
You invest 11.5 bn in infrastructure, get most of it back immediately and have the eyes of the most of the world on your country for a month. How much do companies pay for 30 seconds commercial during Super Bowl?
Pannonian
06-12-2014, 15:14
Hosting the World Cup is a great honour and privilege and the host country gets many benefits. It is an excellent way to justify vast investment in football (and sports in general) infrastructure and have the investment return for the most part almost immediately.
Developed countries, like USA and Germany, didn't have to build new stadia or transport infrastructure, or only had to build a few and they managed to make a lot of money on it. Brazil needs new stadia (maybe not as much as they have built) and needs transport infrastructure. No one's going to take it away after WC. Asphalt, rails and stations will be there for future use.
You invest 11.5 bn in infrastructure, get most of it back immediately and have the eyes of the most of the world on your country for a month. How much do companies pay for 30 seconds commercial during Super Bowl?
And if you're a realistic contender, hosting a World Cup is a massive step you can take towards winning it. Competitive, and in some cases, uncompetitive countries have regularly performed above their usual level when hosting a World Cup or European Championships. England's best performance in a World Cup was in 1966 when they hosted it. Their best performance in a European Championships was in 1996 when they hosted it. France's best performance in a World Cup was in 1998 when they hosted it. South Korea's best performance in a World Cup was in 2002 when they hosted it. Argentina first won the World Cup in 1978 when they hosted it. And so on. If any country cares about winning the most prestigious sporting trophy in the world, hosting the tournament is one of the most significant things they can do towards that end.
Seamus Fermanagh
06-12-2014, 16:43
And if you're a realistic contender, hosting a World Cup is a massive step you can take towards winning it. Competitive, and in some cases, uncompetitive countries have regularly performed above their usual level when hosting a World Cup or European Championships. England's best performance in a World Cup was in 1966 when they hosted it. Their best performance in a European Championships was in 1996 when they hosted it. France's best performance in a World Cup was in 1998 when they hosted it. South Korea's best performance in a World Cup was in 2002 when they hosted it. Argentina first won the World Cup in 1978 when they hosted it. And so on. If any country cares about winning the most prestigious sporting trophy in the world, hosting the tournament is one of the most significant things they can do towards that end.
Does not hold true of USA. Aside from the 1930 performance, our hosting performance was only the third best outcome in recent decades -- we have done better twice since then. Moreover, I am proud to say, no yanks have ever been murdered over an accidental "own-goal."
So as I suggested in the original post. Couldn't many of these problems simply be solved (if we were able to push for this choice) by designating a plot of land somewhere to be "FIFA land" and hosting the world cup there every time?
As you seem to be aware of, there is a problem with enforcing this, and then there is the problem of peopla all around our ball wanting to see the matches and not all of them will be able to afford a flight to FIFA land. So When it moves around the globe, more and different people get to partake in it.
Umm... not exactly. :dizzy2:
Fits like a glove! :stare:
Pannonian
06-12-2014, 17:39
Does not hold true of USA. Aside from the 1930 performance, our hosting performance was only the third best outcome in recent decades -- we have done better twice since then. Moreover, I am proud to say, no yanks have ever been murdered over an accidental "own-goal."
Worse have happened than a shooting. A referee was beheaded on the pitch in Brazil and his head paraded on a stick a few months ago. Admittedly, that was after he'd shot someone.
a completely inoffensive name
06-12-2014, 21:04
Hosting the World Cup is a great honour and privilege and the host country gets many benefits. It is an excellent way to justify vast investment in football (and sports in general) infrastructure and have the investment return for the most part almost immediately.
Oh yes, great privilege in having your citizens riot in the streets because you spent their money on stadiums which won't be used after a dozen games. Such honor in having your country bulldoze slums and forests alike just so you can send all the profits straight to FIFA anyway!
Sports for sports sake is inhumane.
Pannonian
06-12-2014, 22:06
Oh yes, great privilege in having your citizens riot in the streets because you spent their money on stadiums which won't be used after a dozen games. Such honor in having your country bulldoze slums and forests alike just so you can send all the profits straight to FIFA anyway!
Sports for sports sake is inhumane.
In the more developed countries, football has been a significant catalyst in harmonising relations between cultures. Racist attitudes have decreased greatly in the UK since the 1980s, and a significant part of that is football supporters idolising players of different ethnicities.
Tellos Athenaios
06-12-2014, 23:00
Sports for sports sake is inhumane.
Tell it to the PE teachers...
a completely inoffensive name
06-13-2014, 00:56
Tell it to the PE teachers...
Didn't realize PE teachers used slaves.
Sarmatian
06-13-2014, 07:14
Oh yes, great privilege in having your citizens riot in the streets because you spent their money on stadiums which won't be used after a dozen games. Such honor in having your country bulldoze slums and forests alike just so you can send all the profits straight to FIFA anyway!
Sports for sports sake is inhumane.
Who said they won't be used?
a completely inoffensive name
06-13-2014, 08:44
Who said they won't be used?
Well just ask the Chinese how their olympic stadiums are holding up.
http://www.citylab.com/work/2012/07/beijings-olympic-ruins/2499/
Quick google search will give you plenty of decay in the aftermath of 2004 Olympics in Athens.
If the Chinese can't find use for their stuff, what makes you think a brand new 40,000 seat stadium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_Pantanal) in the middle of the amazon, with only 551,000 people living (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuiab%C3%A1) near it is going to thrive after July 13th?
Sarmatian
06-13-2014, 12:44
Well just ask the Chinese how their olympic stadiums are holding up.
http://www.citylab.com/work/2012/07/beijings-olympic-ruins/2499/
Quick google search will give you plenty of decay in the aftermath of 2004 Olympics in Athens.
If the Chinese can't find use for their stuff, what makes you think a brand new 40,000 seat stadium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_Pantanal) in the middle of the amazon, with only 551,000 people living (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuiab%C3%A1) near it is going to thrive after July 13th?
Olympics are quite different from WC. Football doesn't demand such a diverse infrastructure and is by far the most popular sport in the world. Even more so in Brazil.
Football stadiums are also quite versatile and can be used for other sports, athletics tournaments are often held there, and even for some stuff unrelated to sports, for instance concerts.
In the case of Cuiaba, the stadium was built in place of an older stadium, that had capacity of cca. 44,000, and it will be used as home stadium by two local clubs, Mixto and Cuiaba.
I'm not saying it couldn't have been done cheaper as I don't really know the average attendance of Mixto and Cuiaba.
But, again, not FIFA's fault. World Cup is one of the few international sporting events that are actually profitable if done correctly. FIFA often allocates WC to a country that could use a significant investment in football infrastructure so that they could offset much of the cost. Of course, corruption in said country can drive the cost higher than it should have been but that is again not FIFA's fault.
Brazil is a sound choice and they will benefit in the long run. Qatar, on the other hand...
Seamus Fermanagh
06-13-2014, 13:53
Oh yes, great privilege in having your citizens riot in the streets because you spent their money on stadiums which won't be used after a dozen games. Such honor in having your country bulldoze slums and forests alike just so you can send all the profits straight to FIFA anyway!
Sports for sports sake is inhumane.
In the USA, they hold the riot to celebrate their team's winning.....or at least that has too often been the case.
Seamus Fermanagh
06-13-2014, 13:54
Didn't realize PE teachers used slaves.
They're labeled "students" as a courtesy.
a completely inoffensive name
06-13-2014, 22:08
Olympics are quite different from WC. Football doesn't demand such a diverse infrastructure and is by far the most popular sport in the world. Even more so in Brazil.
Football stadiums are also quite versatile and can be used for other sports, athletics tournaments are often held there, and even for some stuff unrelated to sports, for instance concerts.
In the case of Cuiaba, the stadium was built in place of an older stadium, that had capacity of cca. 44,000, and it will be used as home stadium by two local clubs, Mixto and Cuiaba.
I'm not saying it couldn't have been done cheaper as I don't really know the average attendance of Mixto and Cuiaba.
But, again, not FIFA's fault. World Cup is one of the few international sporting events that are actually profitable if done correctly. FIFA often allocates WC to a country that could use a significant investment in football infrastructure so that they could offset much of the cost. Of course, corruption in said country can drive the cost higher than it should have been but that is again not FIFA's fault.
Brazil is a sound choice and they will benefit in the long run. Qatar, on the other hand...
Fair enough. I'm glad we both recognize the absurdity of Qatar hosting.
In the USA, they hold the riot to celebrate their team's winning.....or at least that has too often been the case.
They're labeled "students" as a courtesy.
Alright, I'll admit, I laughed at both of those. But I still think that LA "rioting" after the Lakers win is different than the LA Riots of 1992, which were really bad riots.
HoreTore
06-15-2014, 22:23
I don't care about corruption, I don't care about poor people being screwed, I don't care about overblown spending.
But by the love of all that is holy......
Get those damn drums out of the stadiums!!
Seamus Fermanagh
06-16-2014, 22:42
How about those auto-goals! Seems like a rash of them so far.
Kadagar_AV
06-17-2014, 00:25
I think holding the football WC in Brazil is about equal to holding it in countries with Gulags, modern USA standards, or Concentration Camps.
To me it seems rather ill advised.
Strike For The South
06-17-2014, 02:48
soccer>poor people
Kadagar_AV
06-17-2014, 03:00
soccer>poor people
First of all, this is a international board. It's called football, and we cant help that you in the US call a game not handling balls with their feet overly much "Football".
You do however amuse us with the belief of calling it "soccer", oh you silly colonials :rolleyes:
As to OP:
How many children in Brazil are homeless?
How come we don't see them around at all when it comes to the WC? It almost feels like the police and militia cleaned the streets.
Papewaio
06-17-2014, 03:54
How about those auto-goals! Seems like a rash of them so far.
That wouldn't have anything to do with gambling now would it...
HopAlongBunny
06-17-2014, 04:04
How come we don't see them around at all when it comes to the WC? It almost feels like the police and militia cleaned the streets.
Much like Vancouver did before the Winter Olympics; the homeless get free re-location when we invite the world ~;)
Kadagar_AV
06-17-2014, 04:17
Much like Vancouver did before the Winter Olympics; the homeless get free re-location when we invite the world ~;)
Are you positive that the youth beggars were re-located in an orderly fashion living up to modern ethical thinking?
I, for one, am not convinced.
Ironside
06-17-2014, 08:34
As to OP:
How many children in Brazil are homeless?
How come we don't see them around at all when it comes to the WC? It almost feels like the police and militia cleaned the streets.
They were probably cleaned out and restricted to the favelas long before that. I've been to Brazil years ago (Rio and Foz do Iguaçu) and there were no harrasing street beggars that I saw. I can't remember if I saw normal beggars or people obviously homeless, I probably did, but they sort of end up in the backround.
The difference between the stores for the rich and for the rest of the population was quite obvious though. And going by bus on bridges above the favelas does give an odd feeling and not a positive one.
It almost feels like the police and militia cleaned the streets.
Someone on Facebook posted a link from some organization which had photos and said the police were killing the homeless children. How true that actually is I do not know, it was on Facebook after all...
The always reliable Daily Mail also reports it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2619722/Brazil-police-accused-cleansing-favelas-World-Cup-football-carnival-rolls-town.html
This article touches the subject and highlights how Russia is a far better country: http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/death-squads-terrorize-rio-de-janeiro-as-brazil-readies-for-world-cup/
Also found a link to an article about the Facebook picture, but it's probably too graphic to post it here.
Apparently Brazil is some kind of gun nut paradise where vigilantism and police killing people even for the smallest crimes are a daily occurrence: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/world-cup-2014-brazils-street-3272688
Amnesty International seems to focus on the ban on protests however: http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/brazil-give-yellow-card-restrictions-protests-2014-05-08
a completely inoffensive name
05-27-2015, 10:16
Fifa officials arrested on corruption charges as World Cup probe launched
http://gu.com/p/499vk
Fifa is indeed a really ugly organisation. Not just because the corruption but also because of the horrible working-conditions of the guys building the stadiums in Qatar. Hundreds have died, how can you look away from that, these are human-beings. I celebrate the first country that refuses to play there.
edit, text doesn't matter, picture does http://www.powned.tv/nieuws/sport/2015/05/fifafunctionarissen_opgepakt.html
Gilrandir
05-27-2015, 14:46
I celebrate the first country that refuses to play there.
Even if it is the Netherlands?
Even if it is the Netherlands?
Would love it, human rights are more important than money, I am not going to watch it, it's tainted with misery
edit, more calls for a boycot it seems. If the A-teams like Italy, France, Netherlands, Germany, Spain, etc just stay home than what is left of the World Championship. And seriously, Qatar?? Fifa would have a gigantic problem if there are only B-teams playing.
a completely inoffensive name
05-28-2015, 09:21
I hope the ones arrested cave in and bring the entire leadership down.
Looks like the US uncovered plans that reveal that South Africa paid FIFA to host the World Cup in 2010 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32902076).
And perhaps Blatter may not win the presidential election, although I wonder if anyone who is considered for the job has not already taken bribes from someone.
rory_20_uk
05-28-2015, 09:35
I'm not surprised that it took the USA to investigate. All the countries that like football don't really care about the bribery or the deaths.
~:smoking:
Gilrandir
05-28-2015, 09:40
And, symptomatically, Russia supports the current FIFA management:
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/fifa-scandal-casts-shadow-on-russia-s-world-cup/522479.html
They finally found a use for all that NSA surveillance?
They finally found a use for all that NSA surveillance?
Germany does that as well Hus
Germany does that as well Hus
Because we do everything the USA do/want, therefore stopping the USA doing/wanting it is the most important thing.
I wish I could vote for the POTUS given how much influence he has on my life, no taxation (of my data) without representation and all that.
Either way, it's a bad thing because I heard professional sports create a lot of wealth and jobs.
Yeah it is of course all America's fault. Merkel is an ex-Stasi informer and has all major internet-routes monitored, Germany does the exact same thing as the USA. Just like everybody else.
edit: fun conspiracy theory just for fun, she DOES look like him http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/26363/53/
Brandy Blue
05-29-2015, 01:26
Only way to 'fix' FIFA would be to create a new one and have everyone abandon FIFA.
But I have a feeling it would be in the same boat as when the USA talks about the 'World Series' and the only countries participating is them and Canada.
I think the intention was that other nations would join in eventually, but only Canada has showed up to the party so far. Maybe we should issue invitations. :)
Anyway, American and Canadan If They Managed to Qualify This Year Series just doesn't sound right.
Kralizec
05-29-2015, 17:31
Merkel is an ex-Stasi informer
Sounds like nonsense. All Stasi files that remain intact are open to the public AFAIK. Many politicians of Die Linke (which has many former members of the DDR's communist party) are known to be former stasi informers and this is frequently pointed out by others. If there was any proof Merkel was a stasi informer, we'd all know.
Archives can disapear, google is your friend. If it's bull it is at least fun bull
Archives can disapear, google is your friend. If it's bull it is at least fun bull
I didn't want to derail the thread but your entire argument is complete bull:
1) It was a joke because I heard that the data collection is actually not all that useful and hasn't prevented a lot of terrorist attacks yet.
2) The Merkel-Stasi thing is complete conspiracy theory bull.
3) What do the Merkel and the Stasi have to do with what the BND does?
4) AFAIK Germany does not collect and store all transaction data, at worst they cooperate and let the NSA collect data from hubs here and then store it in the US where they store all the other data.
5) If the people I have elected decide to spy on me that is still a completely different thing than a complete stranger whom I cannot throw out of office violating my privacy from behind a lot of guns and warships.
6) Maybe there is nothing I can do about the spying, but I can get on your nerves. If you think that's unfair, so do I.
Only said Germany does it, even helped the nsa actually
Greyblades
05-30-2015, 13:44
I didn't want to derail the thread but your entire argument is complete bull:
1) It was a joke because I heard that the data collection is actually not all that useful and hasn't prevented a lot of terrorist attacks yet.
2) The Merkel-Stasi thing is complete conspiracy theory bull.
3) What do the Merkel and the Stasi have to do with what the BND does?
4) AFAIK Germany does not collect and store all transaction data, at worst they cooperate and let the NSA collect data from hubs here and then store it in the US where they store all the other data.
5) If the people I have elected decide to spy on me that is still a completely different thing than a complete stranger whom I cannot throw out of office violating my privacy from behind a lot of guns and warships.
6) Maybe there is nothing I can do about the spying, but I can get on your nerves. If you think that's unfair, so do I.
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/713/636/2d4.gif
Nice gif. This isn't about terrorism but about corporate and political espianage Hus, and Gernany is into it. There have been numerous lawcases about it, also in Germany. Air-France was pretty pissed of that they were being monitored. And it wasnlt the nsa collecting it they just got it. But granted, Merkel got an NSA-free blackberrie, how could they. Stern one.
Nice gif. This isn't about terrorism but about corporate and political espianage Hus, and Gernany is into it. There have been numerous lawcases about it, also in Germany. Air-France was pretty pissed of that they were being monitored. And it wasnlt the nsa collecting it they just got it. But granted, Merkel got an NSA-free blackberrie, how could they. Stern one.
I thought it was about FIFA corruption and the USA finally doing something about it after Europe ignored it for centuries.
Merkel is actually one of the more valid targets to spy on, I only ever complained about the NSA spying on normal people.
I'm not even arguing about your reminder that all people are scumbags and that we should remove ourselves and leave this world to gaia and her better creatures.
ElAngelo
06-02-2015, 02:46
Nothing is gonna happen in the end. They have too much power and money.
I thought it was about FIFA corruption and the USA finally doing something about it
(current) topic is, your post wasn't
(current) topic is, your post wasn't
It was, I already explained why and how.
There's a case where the US do a good thing and I make a positive joke about it and you accuse me of being a hypocrite for no good reason...why do you hate me? ~:mecry:
Blatter has resigned. So even if the investigation goes nowhere, it's not a complete failure. :medievalcheers:
No surpprise there, his underkings weere never going to protect a man that is that old. I hope the FiFA shapes up when it comes to some basic humanity. He should spend the last days of his life in jail imho
Byebye Blatter. I hope this isn't the end of the investigations.
Sarmatian
06-03-2015, 23:08
So, Chuck Blazer admitted (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jun/03/fifa-chuck-blazer-bribes-world-cup) to receiving bribes for 1998 World Cup (France) to vote for Morocco and 2010 (South Africa) to vote for South Africa. Aside from that, he also admitted to receiving bribes for broadcast rights for 5 CONCACAF Gold Cups.
Aside from 2012 FIFA report (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/nov/14/world-cup-bid-australia-public-money-bribes-fifa), that Australia tried to bribe CONCACAF and Oceania delegates to host the 2022 World Cup (which may or may not be true), this is generally centered on CONCACAF.
It will be interesting to see this unfolding.
Also, it will be interesting to see what is defined as a "bribe". Australia, allegedly, didn't offer money to any one person, but wanted to sponsor the local associations with a lot of money. Amount of 500,000$, for instance, was paid directly to CONCACAF "to fund a feasibility study to develop a centre of excellence in Trinidad & Tobago", whatever that means. I'd be amazed if that didn't happen all the time over the last several decades.
In the end, I think that Blatter was right when he said that none of this would have happened if FIFA awarded WC 2018 and 2022 to US and UK.
So, Chuck Blazer admitted (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jun/03/fifa-chuck-blazer-bribes-world-cup) to receiving bribes for 1998 World Cup (France) to vote for Morocco and 2010 (South Africa) to vote for South Africa. Aside from that, he also admitted to receiving bribes for broadcast rights for 5 CONCACAF Gold Cups.
Aside from 2012 FIFA report (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/nov/14/world-cup-bid-australia-public-money-bribes-fifa), that Australia tried to bribe CONCACAF and Oceania delegates to host the 2022 World Cup (which may or may not be true), this is generally centered on CONCACAF.
It's probably centered on CONCACAF because that's the easiest for the FBI to follow the money in, and the greater chance that money passed through US jurisdiction. Blazer was an juicy target due to his obvious tax-evasion, and if there's one the the US government really, truly cares about, it's tax evasion.
Also, it will be interesting to see what is defined as a "bribe". Australia, allegedly, didn't offer money to any one person, but wanted to sponsor the local associations with a lot of money. Amount of 500,000$, for instance, was paid directly to CONCACAF "to fund a feasibility study to develop a centre of excellence in Trinidad & Tobago", whatever that means.
It probably means Jack Warner pocketed the cash. ~D
Papewaio
06-04-2015, 02:52
Ah the beautiful game.
Money that is, Wall Street Green, London Silver Sterling, and apparently AU Gold.
Yes there is a chemist joke in there :D
Gilrandir
06-04-2015, 10:45
So, Chuck Blazer admitted (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jun/03/fifa-chuck-blazer-bribes-world-cup) to receiving bribes for 1998 World Cup (France) to vote for Morocco and 2010 (South Africa) to vote for South Africa.
Are you sure this guy was Chuck Blazer
15533
and not Kolomoysky:
15534 15535 15536
a completely inoffensive name
06-04-2015, 11:31
Even after all the corruption is exposed and cleaned up, FIFA is still a joke until teams can challenge calls made by a referee.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
06-04-2015, 15:51
In the end, I think that Blatter was right when he said that none of this would have happened if FIFA awarded WC 2018 and 2022 to US and UK.
That may be true, but not in the way he meant. Awarding the Cups to Russia and Qatar, especially after the spectacular let down that was Socci, made it impossible to ignore how pervasive the corruption was.
They may now need to change the venues, especially given that Russia and Qatar may not actually be able to deliver.
The UK would be a prime contender in that case, as would Germany and then the US because we already have all the required infrastructure, it just needs a bit of a refit
Greyblades
06-04-2015, 17:05
Hell, most of the refits are already done, what with the Olympic stadium's being recently converted into a football club.
That may be true, but not in the way he meant. Awarding the Cups to Russia and Qatar, especially after the spectacular let down that was Socci, made it impossible to ignore how pervasive the corruption was.
They may now need to change the venues, especially given that Russia and Qatar may not actually be able to deliver.
The UK would be a prime contender in that case, as would Germany and then the US because we already have all the required infrastructure, it just needs a bit of a refit
The thing with Qatar is that it is actually impossible to play football at that time of the year there.
Sarmatian
06-04-2015, 18:43
Even after all the corruption is exposed and cleaned up, FIFA is still a joke until teams can challenge calls made by a referee.
One needs to be very careful with that. It erodes the authority of the referees.
Additionally, football is a mass sport. Even a tiny Montenegro has 3 leagues (tiers), a few dozen professional clubs and a several dozen more amateur clubs. Football is not just EPL or La Liga or Serie A or Champions League or World Cup.
That may be true, but not in the way he meant. Awarding the Cups to Russia and Qatar, especially after the spectacular let down that was Socci, made it impossible to ignore how pervasive the corruption was.
They may now need to change the venues, especially given that Russia and Qatar may not actually be able to deliver.
The UK would be a prime contender in that case, as would Germany and then the US because we already have all the required infrastructure, it just needs a bit of a refit
Actually, from organizational point of view, Sochi was a huge success. Some journalists complained about accommodation but they praised how transportation was organized (it took significantly less time to reach different venues). Athletes also praised the venues and accommodation.
The problem of terrorist threats isn't really something Russia had influence over. Terrorists will make threats.
Whether all that was worth 50bn is another issue, but that is again Russia's problem. If they're happy with it, I don't see why anyone else should have a problem.
Even if there was an absolute consensus, there is no time to pick a new a new host for 2018. 2022 possibly, but even that is pushing it.
Bribes or no bribes, Qatar is a terrible choice for many reasons, but one that has been made. We should stick with it.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
06-04-2015, 19:22
At a stretch I would say the UK or Germany could host a World Cup in two years. Bear in mind that the UK only recently hosted the Olympics, so we already have modern infrastructure to cope with spectators and journalists, and more than sufficient stadia to actually hold the tournament.
In the UK especially motivation would be EXTREMELY High and corruption would not be an issue.
It would be hard work, but I would say the UK could comfortably be ready by 2018 and not still hanging doors on hotel rooms.
As to 2022 - there are a dozen countries who could be ready for that in time without breaking a sweat.
Sarmatian
06-04-2015, 20:23
At a stretch I would say the UK or Germany could host a World Cup in two years.
It would be hard work, but I would say the UK could comfortably be ready by 2018 and not still hanging doors on hotel rooms.
It's not the infrastructure, it's the economic aspect - namely sponsorships which are already signed. These things are done years in advance. The business world has been getting ready and investing accordingly for a World Cup in Russia.
Not to mention that even if wrongdoings are eventually proved for 2018 and 2022 WC, it is a process that would take years, and it would be naive to expect that FIFA would or could cancel the largest sporting event on the planet because there is an ongoing investigation, which so far doesn't offer any indication that Russia or Qatar used bribes.
FIFA is also big on self policing. Current scandal aside, it would be a dangerous precedent if FIFA changed such important decisions because a few delegates have been charged/and or convicted of a taking a bribe. What happens tomorrow if a delegate is convicted in Brazil, Argentina, Israel, Jamaica, South Korea, Montenegro, Botswana etc... Are we gonna change hosts of a WC every time that happens? If I'm not mistaken, FIFA is only legally obliged by a Swiss court.
Additionally, bribes in some way, shape or form have been used by everybody. Australia paying half a million dollars for a feasibility study that costs most probably between 20,000 and 50,000? It's not a 10% difference, it's 10 or 20 times as much. No one can tell me they were that naive. If someone would seriously comb everything he would find such examples in probably all bids ("Hey, Jamaica, this is England. Yes, it's been a long time, but do you have some projects you need funded in the near future? Yes... Aha... Ok... We've got it. Expect the money in the next 48 hours. Why? Well, we were just thinking of you. No other reason at all. Keep fighting the good fight and keep us in your thoughts. If you remember some other project, just call. No problem at all. Yes, we have to go now, Saint Kits and Nevis is on the other line. Hey Saint Kits and Nevis, this is England. Yes, it's been a long time...) <--- These are "nice" bribes.
All in all, zero chance for a change in 2018 and most probably for 2022.
The only reason why Qatar might be under discussion is apparently appaling human rights violations regarding the workers. The temperature can't be a reason because that was known and should/must have been taken into account back then. The climate in Qatar didn't change in the last few years. Abysmal decision to give WC to Qatar, but I don't see a way out.
Papewaio
06-05-2015, 04:21
Considering it is the same business world implicated in the bribes, tough.
Play with fire, you get burnt.
Modern day slavery, corruption, bribery and apparently death threats... Although the last is probably to divert attention from hand caught in the till.
I'm sure the EU as a whole could hold the next World Cup with ease. Maybe by using entire regions for group matches it would reduce corruption.
It's a combination of fan base (huge marketing = money), concentration of power and practically lifetime tenure of those at the top with a culture that is neither transparent nor accountable.
The Swiss government should be ashamed for hosting the HQ.
a completely inoffensive name
06-05-2015, 04:51
Abysmal decision to give WC to Qatar, but I don't see a way out.
Cancel the World Cup. But as Strike mentioned earlier in the thread: soccer > poor people.
Cancel the World Cup.
Absolutily. Even if it is for practical reasons, it's just too hot there.
The Swiss government should be ashamed for hosting the HQ.
Not only for that.
While I find the Swiss admirable in a way for their freedom-loving etc., they also show a great amount of selfishness from Nazi gold to modern dictators, educating Kim Jong Un etc. They will apparently support/host almost everyone with money regardless of the crimes and atrocities these people commit elsewhere.
Yes, in a way it is neutrality to the extreme, but you could say evil thrives when good people are neutral to such an extreme...
Gilrandir
06-05-2015, 10:21
The thing with Qatar is that it is actually impossible to play football at that time of the year there.
I heard they are going to furnish every stadium with air conditioning.
It's not the infrastructure, it's the economic aspect - namely sponsorships which are already signed. These things are done years in advance. The business world has been getting ready and investing accordingly for a World Cup in Russia.
As recent developments connected with the Ukraine crisis show, business deals and agreements with Russia may (and tend to) be overlooked because of non-business (namely political) issues. Russia has suffered it once, so it will lump it again if needs be. The same with its business partners. The same refers to Qatar.
And here comes Ireland:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/fifa/11650517/Fifa-corruption-crisis-live.html
I heard they are going to furnish every stadium with air conditioning.
Who is running in the thredmills to power that.
Gilrandir
06-05-2015, 11:43
Who is running in the thredmills to power that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_2022_FIFA_World_Cup_bid#Weather
Sarmatian
06-05-2015, 21:37
As recent developments connected with the Ukraine crisis show, business deals and agreements with Russia may (and tend to) be overlooked because of non-business (namely political) issues. Russia has suffered it once, so it will lump it again if needs be. The same with its business partners. The same refers to Qatar.
Yeah, politics and sport shouldn't stay separate whenever possible.
Montmorency
06-05-2015, 22:12
Yeah, politics and sport shouldn't stay separate whenever possible.
This is a deeply-confusing sentiment that betrays an ignorance of the nature of organized sport in history. If you want less politics in your sports, then don't support globe-trotting billion-dollar teams. Go watch kids play in the park instead.
Gilrandir
06-07-2015, 14:52
Yeah, politics and sport shouldn't stay separate whenever possible.
If you want to know what SHOULD be done, read the Ten Commandments. We speak here of the real world and what IS done in it.
And FBI means business:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3113870/Qatar-stripped-2022-World-Cup-according-country-s-whistleblower.html
Sarmatian
06-07-2015, 21:16
This is a deeply-confusing sentiment that betrays an ignorance of the nature of organized sport in history. If you want less politics in your sports, then don't support globe-trotting billion-dollar teams. Go watch kids play in the park instead.
Well, thanks for clearing it up for me in my ignorance. :rolleyes:
Just because it can't be prevented all the time, doesn't mean I'm gonna start thinking of ways to actively encourage it.
If you want to know what SHOULD be done, read the Ten Commandments. We speak here of the real world and what IS done in it.
And FBI means business:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3113870/Qatar-stripped-2022-World-Cup-according-country-s-whistleblower.html
I particularly like those are afraid for their lives who give newspaper interviews.
Qatar may be stripped of WC, but that would be a massive mistake on part of FIFA. The only legitimate reason to do that is if the reported extent of inhumane working conditions is actually true.
Once it becomes a precedent, bad things will happen...
Bad choice, but it was made. Deal with it and focus your reforms so that doesn't happen any more.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
06-07-2015, 21:19
Hmm: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33041467
So, if they find wrong doing in the Bids Russia and Qatar might lose their World Cups.
It's still not all that likely, but it's an actual possibility.
Seems very likely at this point. Maybe there won't be a WC at all and I am perfectly fine with that considering all of this.
GenosseGeneral
06-08-2015, 07:34
Great! Our public television then might use the 200 million they save for something useful. Like good journalism.
Gilrandir
06-08-2015, 10:51
Great! Our public television then might use the 200 million they save for something useful. Like good journalism.
Reality shows are more likely to get the money.
Gilrandir
06-08-2015, 10:55
Qatar may be stripped of WC, but that would be a massive mistake on part of FIFA. The only legitimate reason to do that is if the reported extent of inhumane working conditions is actually true.
If you buy a mobile phone and a week later it turns out to have been stolen from someone, is there a legitimate reason to impound it and return to the previous owner? The same here: if some deal is found to have involved a crime it should be declared void.
Stripping the WC is probably the only thing the FIFA can do if they want to hang onto any credibility that is left, a Qatar wisstleblower has a few things to say about corruption. Blatter is now investigated as well.
Sarmatian
06-08-2015, 15:21
If you buy a mobile phone and a week later it turns out to have been stolen from someone, is there a legitimate reason to impound it and return to the previous owner? The same here: if some deal is found to have involved a crime it should be declared void.
That's not really representative of the situation.
Bribes in some way, shape or form have been present for several decades at least, when it came to WC, and I'm pretty confident one couldn't find a single 100% clean bid in that time.
I would much rather have such a reform that it stops the richest and/or most powerful nations from influencing the process. No one is talking about such a reform, so it's a moot point for me.
Gilrandir
06-08-2015, 16:11
That's not really representative of the situation.
I believe it is. Any wrongdoing must be undone and the situation returned to the state before the wrongdoing occurred.
Kinda hard to undo the wrongdoing of the hundreds of people who died in Qatar building these stadiums, death is pretty permanent.
Gilrandir
06-09-2015, 10:20
Kinda hard to undo the wrongdoing of the hundreds of people who died in Qatar building these stadiums, death is pretty permanent.
I mean those wrongdoings which are reversible. If someone stole your phone and then broke it and the police found it, they can't return it to the owner. Well, they can, but you won't be able to use it any more.
But if some business deal was nailed down illegaly, it should be cancelled.
I mean those wrongdoings which are reversible. If someone stole your phone and then broke it and the police found it, they can't return it to the owner. Well, they can, but you won't be able to use it any more.
But if some business deal was nailed down illegaly, it should be cancelled.
That the business-deal was nailed down illegaly seems very likely at this point, a Quatar wistleblower who was involved is ready to speak out. He (apparently) had nothing to do with it himself but seems to comfirm what everybody already suspected. It's a developing story still though. But it should at least be postponed for now, or given to the UK just now. Who wants to play in these tombs anyway?
Sir Moody
06-09-2015, 11:09
Kinda hard to undo the wrongdoing of the hundreds of people who died in Qatar building these stadiums, death is pretty permanent.
Dont read to much into the reports of the deaths - I was shocked at first so I looked into it... guess what its our favourite quote again "Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics".
Basically the quoted figures are for Qatar as a whole not just the migrants working on the World Cup facilities - and once you factor in the region it is actually relatively low (with only Dubai having a better record).
Gilrandir
06-09-2015, 11:43
That the business-deal was nailed down illegaly seems very likely at this point, a Quatar wistleblower who was involved is ready to speak out. He (apparently) had nothing to do with it himself but seems to comfirm what everybody already suspected.
Perhaps him speaking out is the price he pays for himself being exempt from any personal charges.
Gilrandir
06-10-2015, 15:38
Found this one. It is in Spanish, but those who wish can translate it:
http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2015/06/10/internacional/1433900354_946096.html
For those who can't or don't want to in brief - FIFA secretly asked Qatar to be ready to host World Cup in 2018 in case Russia is deprived of it.
I don't know what reputation AS has as a source, though.
Gilrandir
06-12-2015, 09:44
European parliament is also in the game:
http://1tv.ge/en/news/view/101377.html
Sarmatian
06-12-2015, 22:20
I looked a little into Qatar work related deaths, and it seems the situation isn't nearly as bad as it was reported. It's actually business as usual.
Qatar has a population of 2.2 million. 1.4 million are migrant workers, of which 0.9 million are workers from India and Nepal. There has been 468 deaths in those two groups in 2014, according to embassies of India and Nepal. Since those workers make 60% of total migrant workforce, we can extrapolate that about 830 (give or take a few) migrants workers in total die in Qatar.
That number includes all worker deaths, ie. literally every employed person who's died, whatever the cause. It doesn't mean work related death, like someone falling from a top of a construction site. That is comparable to UK, according to BBC. More than 50 000 workers die every year in the US, from work related diseases (that's not the total number, that is just for work related diseases, the actual number is surely higher)
While it is true that Qatar could take care of its migrant workers better, it's not nearly as bad as it was being portrayed. Number of Indian worker deaths every year in India is higher than the the number of Indian worker deaths in Qatar (as a percentage).
Nobody cares about the workers. All the fuss happens because some gentlemen are afraid of having limited profits, due to the small (when compared to Brazil) market of Qatar, the fact that the fans/moneybags are not used to winter and that the other goose with the golden eggs, Champions League will suffer some casualties.
Workers are just the pretext, a successful effort to convince some guillible people that only Qatar is the bad guy, but the real culprit is professional sports.
Gilrandir
07-12-2015, 15:47
New developments:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/12/uk-soccer-fifa-swiss-idUKKCN0PM0D320150712
Gilrandir
07-29-2015, 05:53
The angel of peace forwards a nobel prize nominee:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/33684831
Gilrandir
12-22-2015, 17:09
In case someone didn't hear:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3368574/Sepp-Blatter-Michel-Platini-banned-football-activities-eight-years-FIFA.html
Shaka_Khan
12-23-2015, 07:40
In the Women's World Cup, there was a time when the host country was changed to the previous one. It was for a different reason. There was no corruption involved. If Qatar or Russia or both lose their hosting privileges, then I think Brazil might host. Or maybe South Africa will. There were issues in Brazil such as the protests and the bridge collapse.
Sarmatian
12-23-2015, 11:42
Blatter/Platini incident is completely unrelated to the WC.
In the Women's World Cup, there was a time when the host country was changed to the previous one. It was for a different reason. There was no corruption involved. If Qatar or Russia or both lose their hosting privileges, then I think Brazil might host. Or maybe South Africa will. There were issues in Brazil such as the protests and the bridge collapse.
Lets have these assholes in Qatar have it, it least all these workers didn't die for nothing at all. Brazil and South-Africa aren't an option, thousands will be homeless.
Gilrandir
12-23-2015, 16:35
Blatter/Platini incident is completely unrelated to the WC.
Blatter headed FIFA which is in charge of pronouncing venues for World Cups.
a completely inoffensive name
12-25-2015, 00:30
I looked a little into Qatar work related deaths, and it seems the situation isn't nearly as bad as it was reported. It's actually business as usual.
Qatar has a population of 2.2 million. 1.4 million are migrant workers, of which 0.9 million are workers from India and Nepal. There has been 468 deaths in those two groups in 2014, according to embassies of India and Nepal. Since those workers make 60% of total migrant workforce, we can extrapolate that about 830 (give or take a few) migrants workers in total die in Qatar.
That number includes all worker deaths, ie. literally every employed person who's died, whatever the cause. It doesn't mean work related death, like someone falling from a top of a construction site. That is comparable to UK, according to BBC. More than 50 000 workers die every year in the US, from work related diseases (that's not the total number, that is just for work related diseases, the actual number is surely higher)
While it is true that Qatar could take care of its migrant workers better, it's not nearly as bad as it was being portrayed. Number of Indian worker deaths every year in India is higher than the the number of Indian worker deaths in Qatar (as a percentage).
Show me the sources for those numbers.
Here is the percent for the Qatar values you provided: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=830+%2F+1.4+million+as+a+percentage
For reference later: 0.059%
Here is the actual number of US work related deaths: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.nr0.htm
So the number is not 50,000, it 4,679. And the US the rate is 3.3 per 100,000 workers. Which is 0.0033%.
There are roughly 140 million workers in the US. The fact that you looked at the number 50,000 deaths and said to yourself, "yeah I can believe that 1 in every 2,820 workers die every year there." says a lot about you.
Qatar has (0.059/0.0033) or 17.87 times higher death rate than the US.
Sarmatian
01-02-2016, 01:03
Show me the sources for those numbers.
Here is the percent for the Qatar values you provided: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=830+%2F+1.4+million+as+a+percentage
For reference later: 0.059%
Here is the actual number of US work related deaths: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.nr0.htm
So the number is not 50,000, it 4,679. And the US the rate is 3.3 per 100,000 workers. Which is 0.0033%.
There are roughly 140 million workers in the US. The fact that you looked at the number 50,000 deaths and said to yourself, "yeah I can believe that 1 in every 2,820 workers die every year there." says a lot about you.
Qatar has (0.059/0.0033) or 17.87 times higher death rate than the US.
It is different statistics - worker deaths in Qatar include all worker deaths, not just those that happened during working hours on the actual job or directly connected with it (transport/commute). So it includes those that fall of a platform on a construction site AND those that go home after work and have a heart attack.
The figure of 4,679 for US includes ONLY those who died on the actual job or directly related to work. If we count ALL worker deaths in the US, the conservative estimate is 50,000 a year.
Most die of dehydration supposedly, how hard can it be to get enough water if so.
a completely inoffensive name
01-02-2016, 23:19
It is different statistics - worker deaths in Qatar include all worker deaths, not just those that happened during working hours on the actual job or directly connected with it (transport/commute). So it includes those that fall of a platform on a construction site AND those that go home after work and have a heart attack.
The figure of 4,679 for US includes ONLY those who died on the actual job or directly related to work. If we count ALL worker deaths in the US, the conservative estimate is 50,000 a year.
A. Give the source for that 50,000 figure.
B. The comparison is still garbage because if you are lumping those two figures together, then the numbers are meaningless without knowing the relative distribution of "on the job fatality" over total deaths. If the 50,000 figure is correct, then the US roughly has on the job fatalities as 10% of the total deaths. If the number of on the job deaths for Qatar migrants workers is greater than 83, your point is still wrong. I strongly believe more than 83 migrant workers died on the job in Qatar.
Sarmatian
01-03-2016, 11:19
A. Give the source for that 50,000 figure.
http://www.aflcio.org/content/download/154671/3868441/DOTJ2015Finalnobug.pdf
B. The comparison is still garbage
It is, but the point was that the Qatar figure was also garbage. Newspapers were taking all migrant worker deaths in Qatar figure and comparing them with worker deaths solely from work related injuries in other countries.
The point was - that narrative is bollocks.
Gilrandir
03-16-2016, 15:05
FIFA admitted bribery:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/fifa-seek-tens-millions-corrupt-officials-while-admitting-world-cup-bribery-votes-1549825
Gilrandir
07-15-2018, 12:01
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2018/07/08/croatias-domagoj-vida-could-face-fifa-sanction-shouting-glory/
FIFA continues sucking to Russia. Can't see what's wrong with "Glory to Ukaine". It is like "Vive la France" or something like that. I wonder if he shouted that or "Glory to Russia" would FIFA look differently upon it?
Pannonian
07-15-2018, 12:50
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2018/07/08/croatias-domagoj-vida-could-face-fifa-sanction-shouting-glory/
FIFA continues sucking to Russia. Can't see what's wrong with "Glory to Ukaine". It is like "Vive la France" or something like that. I wonder if he shouted that or "Glory to Russia" would FIFA look differently upon it?
Because it's just plain out lying, as Ukraine aren't even in the tournament to win any glory. It would be like saying that England play good football; just as palpably untrue. Now it would be different if they said that Ukraine are crap, or that England play like a lower division team.
FWIW, anyone singing Deutschland uber Alles should also be done for misrepresenting the facts.
Gilrandir
07-15-2018, 13:14
Because it's just plain out lying, as Ukraine aren't even in the tournament to win any glory. It would be like saying that England play good football; just as palpably untrue. Now it would be different if they said that Ukraine are crap, or that England play like a lower division team.
FWIW, anyone singing Deutschland uber Alles should also be done for misrepresenting the facts.
I didn't get it. Do you mean you side with FIFA in this issue?
Pannonian
07-15-2018, 13:31
I didn't get it. Do you mean you side with FIFA in this issue?
Nah, just wanted to say that England played like a lower league team in the FA Cup.
Ranting for nothing? FIFA is just processing the reports, nothing has been decided. If I was Ukrainian I would find this fascination of Nazis with my country quite embarrassing*. Anyway, I love the cowardice of provocative idiots.
"Boohoo, it was just a joke, I was referring to my buddies, please don't fine!". Not having the guts to defend yourself and instead being forced to invent childish excuses is pathetic but also expected from the admirers of Ustashe. Glad France humiliated these clowns.
*That's not addressed at you Girlandir.
Seamus Fermanagh
07-15-2018, 21:50
Ranting for nothing? FIFA is just processing the reports, nothing has been decided. Anyway, if I was Ukrainian I would find this fascination of Nazis with my country quite embarrassing. Anyway, I love the cowardice of provocative idiots.
"Boohoo, it was just a joke, I was referring to my buddies, please don't fine!". Not having the guts to defend yourself and instead being forced to invent childish excuses is pathetic but also expected from the admirers of Ustashe. Glad France humiliated these clowns.
I agree with you in part. If you are going to protest/complain, have the moral fortitude to own up to what you are doing.
When I was at university as a student, I signed my 'evaluation of the teacher' feedback forms.
Montmorency
07-15-2018, 23:04
I agree with you in part. If you are going to protest/complain, have the moral fortitude to own up to what you are doing.
When I was at university as a student, I signed my 'evaluation of the teacher' feedback forms.
Doesn't that undermine the other students' evaluations (to the extent they have any)? Seems a bit conceited.
Pannonian
07-15-2018, 23:18
Doesn't that undermine the other students' evaluations (to the extent they have any)? Seems a bit conceited.
That's their problem. Owning one's criticisms is never wrong, even if the criticisms themselves are wrong. Other people may not be obliged to do so, but doing so is not wrong.
Seamus Fermanagh
07-16-2018, 05:25
Doesn't that undermine the other students' evaluations (to the extent they have any)? Seems a bit conceited.
It may have. If so, so be it.
Gilrandir
07-16-2018, 10:19
If I was Ukrainian I would find this fascination of Nazis with my country quite embarrassing*.
*That's not addressed at you Girlandir.
If you think that by saying "Glory to Ukraine" one expresses fascination with Ukrainian nazis, you are deeply mistaken. The salutation has stopped being associated with nationalists (and it never was with Nazis) and it is quite usual to hear it from different people (including jews, officials, priests) on different occasions.
Symbolic words and images may change and lose their former significance and associations. Same as the current Russian flag in the time of WWII was a symbol of Vlasov's army. And swastika of ancient India has been totally usurped by Hitler and has now totally negative connotation.
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/why-is-international-media-still-repeating-kremlin-propaganda-about-ukraine
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.