Doubts about the patch

[Katasaki Hirojima]

After reading how frighteningly powerfull Cavalry are, I'm wondering if I should install the patch.

My Italian Campaign has armies made mostly of Genoese Sailors and Italian Infantry. If Knights eat spears *which makes no sense at all, except to you movie buffs....* then my whole army will be eaten by the all cav armies of the AI. Infact, I don't see how this makes the game any better, now we're just going from all spear armies to all Cav armies. Weeee

Thats assumeing all spear units are now trounced by cavalry of the same period..

After reviewing a few numbers and thinking, I'v realised what would trully make the Knights work. That a knight chargeing onto a pike pointed at him, while haveing a good chance of killing the spearman, also has a very good chance of being killed by running himself down on the spear. That meaning that both the Cavalryman and Spear have very high offensive bonuses against each other. Chargeing into a wall of advanced spearmen, outnumbered, Like Italian Infantry, Chivalric Seargents and Pikemen should be suicide, not a viable tactic..

Lesser men, like Urban militia, Spearmen, feudal seargents and Milita Seargents should be easier targets. I mean, gee..The whole idea of these later spear/pikemen is to relfect the demise of cavalry as the dominant force on the field in the Late period.

[Gregoshi]

Katasaki, maybe you should repost this in the Dungeon where all the modder hang out. You could probably get some info on how to make the necessary changes yourself.

[Puzz3D]

Katasaki Hirojima,

Chivalric Knights beat Spearmen and Feudal Sergeants, but loose to Italian Infantry, Chivalric Sergeants and Pikemen in v1.1.

[hoom]

Which is about as it should be as far as I am concerned.

[Katasaki Hirojima]

I know, I installed the patch. Weird thing is though that after 1.1 Chivalric knights still can't beat a spearman unit thats been upgrades to about the same price as the knight. Like some say they can.

I have seen only once the "push-back" that other people have mentioned, and that was Feudal knights against Saracen Infantry. I'm starting to woder if my Patch installed corectly, yet it says 1.1 on the game screen. Hmm.

[Puzz3D]

Katasaki Hirojima,

You were talking about the singleplayer campaign in your first post. Chiv Knights beat Spearmen at equal valor. Multiplayer is different since there you usually compare units at equal cost. There you would have v0 Chiv Knights loosing to v2a1 Spearmen because the Spearmen gain 5 combat points.

Mounted knights don't always get a pushback on spears. There is just a chance that they will. I can see the pushbacks, but they appear to have a fairly low chance of occuring.

[MizuKokami]

from what i've seen, it's best not to attack horse with spears, but rather just move to block. it's like hitting a wall, but if they are moveing...i'm not really sure this makes a difference. i do know that while i was attacking on a bridge, the enemy horses kept pushing back my troops. as they were tired, i halted many of my men on the bridge, and the momentum switched to my favor. and i ended up getting across the bridge. this against byzantine kats.. so i started to use my spears in purely a defencive system.

[Cheetah]

There is a big difference whether you hit standing spearmen head-on or moving, running spearmen from the flanks, or rear. Needless to say that you have much grater chance to rout the spears in the second case http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif So, even with the v1.1 patch it is still not a good idea to charge spears head-on, but flanking, rearing works pretty well and this is as it should be http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Kocmoc]

as i start soon my traincamp again, i will be very nice....like the last weeks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif and share some of my knowledge (maybe u all know it already, than stop reading and let me (little idiot) speak with himself)

spears, can still beat cav, and they can beat cav easy, i wont say very easy but still easy. its important to play with more than 10k florin, in low games the cav-bonusses spoil anything away

well, here we go:

the most guys i see, jsut use the spears wrong
they use this unit as a normal attack unit, and some of them attack with this units in hold

this units just get the bonusses and start to work properly if they stand so make sure this units are on hold and hit backspace to make them stop and stand. than if they dont get flanked, they hold and will win.

but if they move "behind" the enemy horse, what happens if u select a unit/units and hit to a point behind the enemy, u dont get any chargebonusses and ur units try to "walk" truth the enemy units, this units are lost

walking spears will normaly lose very fast to enemy horses...


u want to know more? (Starshiptroopers) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

than come to my traincamp


kocmoc

[HopAlongBunny]

My doubts are about the accounting.
As the Italians, I worked up a large trade network; very few provinces but a large fleet.
I had made a rather large army...no problem I could afford it. The turn where I got the GA of dominant trader possibilty-or whatever it is- the Byz, French, Spanish and Danes all declared war.
OMG I'm in a huge deficit http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif NP soon my army was frittered away in pointless conflicts and sucked dry by crusades (mine and those passing through) I made peace with the Spanish and had trade with the pennisula and Africa. Last I checked, I was still 4000fl short each turn Doh

[Puzz3D]

HopAlongBunn,

That's the problem with overseas trade income. It can drastically change in one turn. I think you have to increase your land base to maintain large armies.

[DonCoyote]

HopAlongB..

i got into exactly the same situation, my first campaign with trade income & i was luxuriating in my +300,000f warchest. 50 years on & i am heading for a -200,000f black hole http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif .

Safe to say it was the AI that decided my trading days were over.

Don Coyote