Building historical generals (?)

[Sir Crashalot]

Hi there

I have been playing MTW single player for over a month now.I have a habit of playing 50 - 100 turns then starting again with a new faction but play as the English most often.

In these English campaigns, I noticed that I kept getting a 4 star Hobilar general in Aquantine and his name and stats were always the same.I also had a 6 star Feudal Sergeant general built in Aquantine (Edit : sorry, I meant Wessex) in two of the games I played so I decided to do a bit of testing.

These generals seem to be dependant on the correct unit being built in the correct provence at the correct time.

Sir Tancred de Normande (Hobilar,Aquantine 1095/96)
Loyalty 3
Piety 3
Dread 3
Command 4
Acumen 3

Vice = Weak Principles

-----------------------------------
Sir Strongbow FitzGilbert (Feudal Sergeant,Wessex 1132(ish))
Loyalty 6
Piety 4
Dread 6
Command 6
Acumen 5

Vice = Moral Flexability
Note : You have enough time to get an armourer up and running by then if you purpose build.

The date isn`t exactly static so give it a couple of years leeway.

I imagine that there are quite a few of these `Historical generals` in the campaign but have yet to find (or notice) any others.

Crash http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Kraxis]

There are many historical generals... But I don't think they are slaved to a certain unit.

Loyalty is also affected by Influence, so it is not consistent in all cases.

[Negative]

It seems to me that they are tied to a date (possibly a time window like 1160-1170), and possibly a provence. So all you would have to do is build a unit in that year, and the general will appear. Tell me if I'm wrong, but this is my observaion. I'll have to experiment with this a little. I hate getting a great general tied to a peasant unit. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Sir Crashalot]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Nov. 12 2002,19:45)]There are many historical generals... But I don't think they are slaved to a certain unit.

Loyalty is also affected by Influence, so it is not consistent in all cases.
I have tested this many times and the results are consistant.All the units that were built during this test had random stats/names probably affected to a certain extent by the King influence as you pointed out, apart from these two units.

During the tests I tried building different units when it got close to the year they appear, which proved to me that they are locked to their particular units.

By 1132 , my first king is usually pushing up the daisies so in each test, the new Kings stats were slightly different.

Try it and see. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

As I said, the date isn`t entirely static, but in my tests it never varied by more than two years.

Crash http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Edit : There must be many more set Generals like this so maybe we could start to make a list when more are found. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Negative]

Good idea. I have one in my mind already.
HRE-Henry the Lion: He appears about between 30-50 years into the early campaign. I'll have to wait until I get home to find out for sure. If they are attached to a particular type of unit then it's Feudal Sergents. If they are tied to a particular provence then it would be the one just north-west of Austria. He usually has around 4 stars.
Hope this is helpful. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Sir Crashalot]

I have had one test fall outside the bounds that I stated earlier.

I built only peasants in aquantine and he didn`t appear, so I changed production to Hobilars and he was the first one produced.

The year was 1100 and his loyalty was 2 instead of 3, but everything else (name/stats) was identical.This is one test out of about 15 so in general (no pun) the results are consistant.

Crash http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Kraxis]

Peasants are discouraged as generals, if not impossible. So you did test other troops didn't you?

I have seen a French historical general of Rank 5 (Lord of Boullion, didn't notice him before he got the title) be in a unit of Urban Militia, with Natural Leader and Greed. Can't possibly imagine such a man would be among that rabble. Also I have seen Henry the Lion in different units (latest in Urban Militia), at least that is how I remember it. And yes he is rank 4 with Skilled Attacker I think.

Another historical general is Nur al Din, rank 6 and Skilled Attacker.

[Sir Crashalot]

Silly me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

You are correct about it not being tied down to a particular unit.In the majority of the tests, I was building the same units (Hobs/FS) just to see if they showed up.I was indeed testing with peasants so I tried with urban militia and he appeared.I should have payed a bit more attention.

This however is even better, so if you know the date window and provence then you could start building your best troops for when he appears.:)

Crash http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

ps. You speak as though this is already known, I looked through the forum before posting this but didn`t notice anything related.If so, is there any listing of dates/ provences ?

[Cheetah]

Quote[/b] (Sir Crashalot @ Nov. 12 2002,14:06)]Sir Tancred de Normande (Hobilar,Aquantine 1095/96)
Loyalty 3
Piety 3
Dread 3
Command 4
Acumen 3

Vice = Weak Principles

-----------------------------------
Sir Strongbow FitzGilbert (Feudal Sergeant,Wessex 1132(ish))
Loyalty 6
Piety 4
Dread 6
Command 6
Acumen 5

Vice = Moral Flexability
I have them both with exactly the same stats Tough, obviously http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif they are not tied to unit types. Sir Tancred is a FMAA and Sir Strongbow is an Urban Militiaman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Nice observation Crash http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Negative]

Do they always show up with the same V&V? I don't think my Henry the Lion has skilled attacker. I seem to think mine has great warrior. I could be wrong, so I'll check when I get home. This is great I finally have a project to do. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif It would be great if we could have a compilation of historic generals. Also it would give Cheetah something to archive http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Sir Crashalot @ Nov. 12 2002,15:55)]ps. You speak as though this is already known, I looked through the forum before posting this but didn`t notice anything related.If so, is there any listing of dates/ provences ?
Not really well known, but discussed in threads such as ones talking about Robin Hood/Robin of Locksley (he is a rebel that if bribed becomes Locksley, a very nice feature&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and Joan of Arc... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Try searching on those and it might show you something.

For instance the English get Thomas Becket a rank 3 Bishop and Guy of Gisboune a rank 5 Assasin.

Giljaysmith posted there were some 30 historical/legendary figures in the Italian faction.

Negative, that was just how I remembered him, it might be something different. But I know Nur al Din has the same.

[Piney]

Mhh...one from France.

First turn of early campain from Il de France,
Urban Militia, 5 or 6 star general

Not at home, so i dont get other stats, sorry

Soeren

[The Yogi]

I've noticed this as well. I have actually gotten into the habit of saving at the end of every turn, and if one of those great generals shows up and nothing of tremendous signifcance happened that turn (like a battle), I reload and build a unit of Royal Knights instead, which then gets the general.

Its gamey, but on the other hand, why should I, the King, not be able to assign a promising young general the best troops available?

[The Scourge]

Would be nice if you could actually knight them.Turn a high ranking Militia unit into Royal Knight.

[Sir Crashalot]

Quote[/b] (Piney @ Nov. 13 2002,08:52)]Mhh...one from France.

First turn of early campain from Il de France,
Urban Militia, 5 or 6 star general

Not at home, so i dont get other stats, sorry

Soeren
Sir Godfrey of Bouillon (first quality unit built in Il de France, Early period)

Loyalty 6
Piety 5
Dread 4
Command 5
Acumen 4

Vice = Natural Leader

This one is different from the other two as it is tied to a set unit.I tried building both archers and spearmen up until 1110 and he did not appear,I then built an Urban Militia unit and it was him.Otherwise,you can get him on the first turn at Il de France as stated by Piney.

Edit : In further tests, I held off unit production until I had the tech to build Feudal units, he appeared as the first FMaA produced and the first FS, so I`m guessing he will appear in the first quality unit produced there. (not archer,peasant or spearman, though Urban militia qualifies)


Quote[/b] ]Would be nice if you could actually knight them.Turn a high ranking Militia unit into Royal Knight.

Sir Strongbow FitzGilbert (Wessex 1132(ish))
This guy will appear on a unit that you build in Wessex around the time stated.By then you could have the resources to build Royal Knights there, so just queue them up around that time and he should appear as the general of one of them.(I havent tested with royal knights)
I know that isn`t exactly what you wanted, but it will be good enough until such a feature implemented.

---------

So far we have three definates with a few hundred more to find http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

There seem to be many different ways to get them, like rebellions in certain provences at the right time, building a unit at the right time, building the correct unit + more undiscovered as of yet.

If anyone finds/builds anymore units like this, please report them here along with the date,provence and any other conditions that they think may be relevent and if they are confirmed by testing, then they will be added to the list. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Also , any help finding,testing and making the list would be appreciated and welcome. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Crash http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[magnum]

Never really thought about the preset generals (and strategic units) before. I've actually been keeping an eye out for them since reading this thread and I've already found 2 dozen of them. I'll have to sit down this weekend and write up all the ones I've found so far. Want to do a little more 'testing' on them to see what factors may be involved in them appearing (time, unit, location, etc.)

wheeee Something new to explore I just love all the many little things CA's thrown into this game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


magnum

[Xer0]

I got Nur al-din (he fought against the crusaders before saladin) as Egypt when I built a Saharan Cavalry in Arabia around 1130-1138. He was a 6 high ranked general.
I think that generals like Saladin should pop up instead of you should build them.

[chunkynut]

Quote[/b] (The Scourge @ Nov. 13 2002,05:48)]Would be nice if you could actually knight them.Turn a high ranking Militia unit into Royal Knight.
This would be great but for a cost of course .... and not the unit just the gen ... say 500 florins with him and 19 royal knights.

Kings could do that sort of thing, dammit why can't we??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Sir Crashalot]

Quote[/b] (Xer0 @ Nov. 14 2002,14:47)]I got Nur al-din (he fought against the crusaders before saladin) as Egypt when I built a Saharan Cavalry in Arabia around 1130-1138. He was a 6 high ranked general.
I think that generals like Saladin should pop up instead of you should build them.

Nur al-Din (Arabia 1130 - 1138)

Loyalty 5
Piety 4
Dread 5
Command 6
Acumen 4

Virtue = Expert attacker

While checking on that guy, I also found this :

Najamuddin Ilghazi of Aleppo (Arabia 1096 - 1106)

Loyalty 8
Piety 4
Dread 5
Comand 4
Acumen 4

Virtue = Fine Leader


Quote[/b] ]Never really thought about the preset generals (and strategic units) before. I've actually been keeping an eye out for them since reading this thread and I've already found 2 dozen of them. I'll have to sit down this weekend and write up all the ones I've found so far. Want to do a little more 'testing' on them to see what factors may be involved in them appearing (time, unit, location, etc.)
Nice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I`m looking forward to seeing your additions. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Crash http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Xer0]

If I for a exemple build bedouin camel warriors in arabia around 1130-1338 will I still get Nur Al-Din? You should check for yourself which date you will get him just an advice.

It would be cool if you added all this in a readme..

Wonder where Saldin is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Sakurai, Saionji]

I was playing a campaign and Henry The Lion was the general of a french crusade against Sicily... Maybe the French bribed him from the HRE.

[Xer0]

bump

[Sir Crashalot]

Quote[/b] (Xer0 @ Nov. 14 2002,23:23)]If I for a exemple build bedouin camel warriors in arabia around 1130-1338 will I still get Nur Al-Din? You should check for yourself which date you will get him just an advice.

It would be cool if you added all this in a readme..

Wonder where Saldin is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
I did check it out before I posted the stats. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

I tested twice, once with Camels and once with Saracen infantry, he showed up both times within the time bracket.I guess that with more tests, he will show up outside the stated date but all we can do is give a reasonably accurate window due to the fact that it would take way too long to achieve complete accuracy.(I`m not up to testing each hero 30-40 times http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif )

I haven`t seen Saladin yet, he may be in there but as you said, he comes at a later date.

Once we have enough generals listed here then we can start making a proper list of them,(or maybe I could just edit them into the first post) until then we collect names and hope that other people will also post their findings here.(like you did) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

It`s just a case of playing as normal but keeping your eyes open for these generals (if/when they appear) then just taking down a few relevant notes. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Edit : There is also the question as to whether the general will still appear for a different faction if they conquer the provence.Ill check that out later.

Crash http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Xer0]

Well I will keep my eyes open. I dont know much about the generals in medieval but if I get a good general when I just build an ordinary unit I will tell you.

[Xer0]

Oh I forgot to mention that El Cid is in Valencia as a leader of a rebel army when you start in 1084 (I think I got the date wrong)

[Kraxis]

It is funny that when Gil said there were some 30 Italian historical/mythical persons he also asked if we wanted the whole list. Obviously the answer was a deafening "YES", but sadly he never returned... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Jaret]

The Germans also can get an Valor 4 Emissary ... duno about the timewindow for sure ... got him around 1230, but it was the first emissary that I had build. *gg*

I got him in Franconia. (Duno about the name ... I´m at work atm ... don´t tell my Boss http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

I´ll take a look at my current HRE Campaign when I get home and tell you some more http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .


PS: You can check one of the .txt files in the /Loc section of MTW for a list of names for those Heros http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Try searching your MTW folder for Locksley for example http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif .

[Xer0]

I just got a 5 star general named Fakhr ad-Din. Although I have never heard of him but here is the stats:

Fakhr ad-Din (Khwarazmian cavalry Arabia 1230-1237)

Loyalty 5
Piety 4
Dread 3
Command 5
Acumen 2

Virtue: Skilled attacker

[insolent1]

It would be nice if you would get a warning when one of these generals are going to be produced, so you could have them come out in a good unit. The polish are the only faction I have played that I have never been able to produce a general of rank 4 or above in over 800 years(2 campaigns). I've nearly finished my first byzantium campaign & all I can say is command over flow aka too many generals

[andrewt]

Egypt has some really powerful ones but weak heirs that's why I remember them more. Nur-al Din and Ilghazi of Aleppo have very good command.

Al-Afdal Shahinshah I got as a Bedouin Camel Warrior in Arabia. He has 6 stars and fine leader. Asad al-Din Shirkoh is a Mamluk Horse Archer from Sinai with 5 stars and great warrior. Some of these might be wrong since I'm looking at a game saved quite some time after though I still remember a few attributes they have.

[dancho]

Quote[/b] (The Scourge @ Nov. 13 2002,05:48)]Would be nice if you could actually knight them.Turn a high ranking Militia unit into Royal Knight.
This is an extraordinarily good idea.

[LordKhaine]

Would be nice if you got a small description for historical generals/agents as well.

[Yoko Kono]

the same feature was also present in shogun
i used to always go for the rebel island early to get chosokabe the 16 wins general http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
shame the good gens in MTW seem to have lots of negative vices relating to bribery

[Sakurai, Saionji]

Heh yeah El Cid is velencia when you play the middle campaign... what sucks is I had to bribe him to make him be on my side so of course now he has low principles, as a vice. Half of my real good generals have this. a plus side to spain is they have great princes. this is my first campaign i have played on moderate difficulty and i was so suprised when everything kept revolting. even when i had a shitload of dudes in that spanish provence directly below spanish capital, its an alamohod provence, and I had it so the population was 70 percent catholic, there was a muslim rebellion with two gaint full stacks of dudes. same thing kepyt happening in portugal. then i eliminated almohod and now they came back in portugal and the thing east of morocoo. anyway yeah im mainly confirming el cid is in velencia lol/

[magnum]

Ah, back from a pleasent weekend. Ok, here's some of what I've found so far. I'll skip those that have been listed already.

First, some observations.

1) Generals tend to be tied to a start date. I have been unable to determine if there is an end date as it's kinda hard to avoid building military units for a extended period of time. However I've yet to find an end date for any of them. As mentioned though, that has so far only been a little over 10 years.

2) All named strategic units have simply been the first unit of that type that I have built, regardless of date.

3) One or more of the following can apply to a named general.
a) They are tied to a specific territory.
b) They are tied to a specific unit type.
c) They are tied to a specific occurance (i.e. Robin Hood only shows up if there is a rebellion in Wessex during the correct time frame.)

Because leaders could have one or more of the previous requirements, it's very possible that it will take a lot of playing to find all of them.

Note: Until last night I'd totally forgotten to check ships as they were built to see if there are special named leaders on them.

Danish Leaders
Snorri Sturluson
Unit: Any
Territory: Sweeden
Date: 1196-
Loy: 8
Pie: 3
Dre: 1
Cmd: 4
Acc: 4

Saxo Grammaticus
Unit: Bishop
Territory: Any
Date: any
Cmd: 3


Spanish Leaders
??? Granvelle (pulled from a save game)
Unit: ?
Territory: ?
Date: ?
Loy: 6
Pie: 3
Dre: 2
Cmd:5
Acc: 4


Turkish Leaders (note that if multiple territories are building units, whichever territory is in the "build" queue first gets the leader.)

Imad al-Din Zengi
Unit: any
Territory: any
Date: 1117 -
Loy: 9
Pie: 4
Dre: 3
Cmd: 3
Acc: 5
V&V: Man of Principal

Qara Timurtash
Unit: any
Territory: any
Date: 1118 -
Loy: 9
Pie: 5
Dre: 4
Cmd: 4
Acc: 3
V&V: Skilled Attacker

Qutb al-Din Aibak
Unit: any
Territory: any
Date 1167 -
Loy: 8
Pie: 9
Dre: 3
Cmd: 4
Acc: 7
V&V: Thinker

No strategic units to date through 1350 for the Turkish.

[scsscsfanfan]

I have noticed the samething. I hate my good general to be a weak unit, so I mod the unit txt file and turned all units except knight/heavy Cavlry units to be discouraged to be a general. So, all my general will come out as knights.

[magnum]

Three more...well four more.

Italian Leaders

Don Boniface of Montferat (minor detail, "of" instead of "da". http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif )
Unit: any
Territory: any
Date: 1182-
Loy: 5
Pie: 2
Dre: 4
Cmd: 4
Acc: 4
V&V: Skilled Assaulter

Don Ezzelino da Romano
Unit: any
Territory: any
Date: 1211-
Loy: 6
Pie: 2
Dre: 6
Cmd: 5
Acc: 3
V&V: Killer Instinct

Don Francesco Petrach
Unit: Emissary
Territory: any
Date: first Emissary built
Stars: 3

Don Francesco Petrach (yep, exactly same as the first, but different picture.)
Unit: Emissary
Territory: any
Date: second Emissary built
Stars: 3

[caesar]

Ok all the names are stored in x:\medieval\loc\eng\names.txt

(seems to be the only place they are mentioned)


// Hero forenames
["El"] .... ["Cid"]

["Beckett"] {"Beckett"}

["Sforza"] {"Sforza"}
["de Tankerville"] {"de Tankerville"}
["of Arc"] {"of Arc"}
["the Lion"] {"the Lion"}


So we dont know necessarily when they appear, or province, but you can tell who CAN appear.

[Kraxis]

We don't know how good they are.

Had completely forgotten about Bohemond de Tankerville (and he always seems to appear as Italian).