Cheating in Multiplayer

[Azrael]

Hey Guys,

Not accusing anyone of anything here. Just want to know:

There are people who specialise in MODS, and in changing graphic and other features in the game.

My question is, since it's possible to change things, if you know enough about messing with the codes and whatever;

Can you alter the Attack values, valour ratings, Charge Bonus, etc... of the Units in your game to make them a little "invincible" during a multi-player battle?

Not that I would ever do such a thing.

I just don't know enough about computers.

Azrael

[GilJaysmith]

The theory is that if someone edits their stats they shouldn't be able to join a game with different stats. If they do manage to join it, then once they hit the battlemap they'll go out of sync the moment their improved stats give them an advantage. The battle is fought on everyone's machine at once, and anyone whose battle is different from the other players is kicked for being out of sync.

There is also a cheat-catcher on the multiplayer menus which is supposed to detect people changing their stats to make units cheaper. This was detecting a few false positives before the patch but should be OK now.

Gil ~ CA

[Azrael]

Giljay,

Thanks for letting me know the answer to that. Call me paranoid, but I feel alot better about Multi-Player now that I know cheating such as this shouldn't be possible.

I notice you said "the theory is". I know with Return to Castle Wolfenstein, they had problems with cheaters online with MP. They created a program called "Punkbuster", which basically boots cheaters.

Though somepeople consider this nothing more than "spyware", I think it really enhances the MP experience, because you know you're fighting on a level playing field.

Ever thought of something like this to help keep MTW's Multi Players clean?

Thanks for your help.

Azrael

[GilJaysmith]

Quote[/b] (Azrael @ Nov. 15 2002,04:21)]
The 'in theory' refers to the fact that there is a way to join an MP game with different stats, but it wouldn't occur to most people, so in practice most people will find it impossible to join with different stats.

PunkBuster is all about ensuring that people can't bias things on their local machine and send those unfairly-achieved results to the server. Our model is different; the essence of the battlemap system is that everyone is fighting the battle on their own machine... the server has no special knowledge of the battle, and no player can establish an advantage by modding the game in any way to change the outcome of an individual melee or projectile shot. Sooner or later (generally sooner) a soldier will be in a different position, doing something different, dead when he should be alive or vice versa... and bang, you're out of sync, and you'll get kicked...

Gil ~ CA

[Kraellin]

azrael,

the upshot is that you can modify the stats any way you wish and as long as everyone else in the multi game has also modified their stats in the exact same manner, you shld be able to play in multi with those folks. it's only when the stats dont match up, player to player, that the game goes out of sync.

the reason for this is what's called a checksum check prior to entering a battle. it's essentially a totally of all the values in a file and then comparing that checksum number to everyone else's checksum number. it is not a foolproof method because you can add up two separate file's values and still come up with the same checksum number, albeit a small chance. thus, you can only say 'in theory' as it's not an absolute. and, a clever cheater can still find ways around this checksum check, but i'd just as soon leave that somewhat obscure for obvious reasons.

for the most part, we are fairly free of cheaters in mtw multi due to the efforts of the CA guys, yet we can also mod the stats among ourselves and effect changes to the game as we see fit, so long as everyone's files match up. this is something the players requested of the guys at CA and which they've been very good enough to grant us over time.

K.

[barocca]

suggest send this to Cheetah for archives,
we will be asked this Q again and again.
:-)

[MagyarKhans Cham]

Feel free to leave names of possible cheaters -in private- to our Khans ger.

magyarkhan@hotmail.com

thx

[SideshowBob]

Question, what happens if someone who hasn't patched tries to play MP with someone who has? Would this out of sync thing throw one of the players out?

[Kraxis]

Bob they won't be able to play, just like any other game where you try different versions.

I'm just happy that the major problem for most RTS games is not present in MTW... Maphacking No need for it here... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[barocca]

maphacking, likes stats hacking,
will result in an error and the "cheater" will get dropped.
B.

[shingenmitch2]

Hehe... barocca ... in theory... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Azrael, I've played a ton of STW/MI/MTW online and never ran into someone I thought might have broken checksum stats/map code ... save one.

Most times if there is a bad defeat there are plenty of reasons to explain why it happened. There are many tricks to working the "morale" on the battlefield that are fair and open to both sides, but not well understood or used properly by all.

So enjoy online play and know with 99% certainty the player who kicked your butt was playing fair http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


----------------
There is no emoticon for how I'm feeling...

[Dionysus9]

I think CA's response: Out of Sync, really solves all the problems.

Even if you can get into the game and start playing with different stats--i.e. pass the checksum test-- you will get out of sync because of your different stats. Eventually someone elses computer will realize you have more men in your units than you do on everyone elses computer, and you will get out of sync.

So really, I dont think it can be done. If you are so bad at MTW that you have to cheat to win, it will be obvious to all the skilled players that you are cheating. So even if it could be done, it wouldn't get you very far except with newbies and crappy players. Everyone else would start yelling "cheater cheater."

Mitch is right, there are a lot of small nuances in the morale system that can add up to what might seem like a "mystery rout" to some. Learning these small nuances is largely a matter of diligent research (check old STW archives--the MTW morale system works the same; check the old Shogun Academy; ask Yuuki a bunch of questions) and massive amounts of experience. Once you get the morale system down you will realize that it makes perfect sense and is well balanced, for the most part.

I don't think you can cheat in MTW and I've never seen anybody cheating. You can play like an #######, by redzoning, for example, but you cant technically cheat.