crusade pathing

[Sandy-San]

and another thing...

How does the AI crusade path finding work?

I'm at war with the French, yet they have just sent a crusade (headed for distant Egypt) rolling right across my lands. I moved armies out of several nearby provinces to stop the crusade stealing any more of my best troops, but then the AI crusade has gone off in completely the opposite direction I expected. It looks like the crusade is heading for my nearby port, and perhaps is going to use my trade route to take it most of the way to Egypt.

Does the AI just pick the quickest route? apart from the initial tick box, do I get any say in where it goes? or are the French just asking for another good kicking? I attacked them (and got told off by the Pope) well over 10 years ago, so I can have another go at them without getting excommed any time I like...

[PanthaPower]

It might be a good thing if you mention if you are pre or post-patch. The pathfinding has changed a lot in v1.1

[Sandy-San]

post patch, ta http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[MizuKokami]

also, if most of the other factions allready have a crusade going some place, if you think you can take the french, and your king is real old, you can risk the ex communication. if the pope dies, or your king, you are no longer excomunicated. if you can kill an enemy completely before 2 years is up, you won't get excom. either. with the other factions haveing crusades going, you can only field one crusade at a time. so if the other factions are out crusadeing allready, they can't crusade to kill you.

get the patch. the patch is worth it just to fix that dam circling crusade.

[Nobunaga0611]

Do crusades still stall a province over from its intended province? I haven't encountered any against me since the patch. Well i got notice as the Turks that I was being crusaded against, but it never came (at least not in the 20 or so years after it was announced).

[Lichgod]

How many units can a Crusade banner have? Also, is there a size limit in number of men -- like the 960 for a single stack?

I have read on other threads about a Crusade banner with three pages of units. What is the limit? Both units (48?) and size (960 x 3 = 2880?).

If you dump Mercs into another faction's Crusade, who pays for the upkeep? If the gaining faction, this might be a good way of (1) getting rid of low strength Merc units, (2) filling up slots (if limited) so they dont suck up your good units, and (3) adding some quality to the overall Crusade army so it might have a chance of succeeding.

My last completed campaign as Danes, I had a highpoint of 300k+ forins. So...I started buying provinces with single stacks. I gained alot of unique units that I could not build/retrain to keep up thier numbers once they suffered losses. I mostly used them as anti-revolt troops. I should have garrisoned Demark with them as three English and two French Crusades and one German Crusade passed through Demark (I had shipping to the East Med). I could have used these remanent formations to flesh out Crusade.

One last question, if a Crusade does get understrength units, will it build them up from the "free" troops it gets as it passes through empty/garrisoned with non-Crusade-type troops? Ex: A Crusade enters a province garrisoned with peasents but it now has free fanatics, crossbowmen, horse archers, etc that were not part of the Crusade before it entered the province. If I stick understrength Trebz Archers in it (gained from buying a Byz army), will it gain recruits of that type to build it up?

[MizuKokami]

they don't stall anymore, but they do allways go thru poland if you play them, so beware. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[MizuKokami]

i've been playing poland since i won useing the spanish. let me tell you it is hard

now, to my question.
if the ai is useing my trade routes to get to their crusade destination, moving my ships away should stop them from comeing threw my lands then...right?

[Brown Wolf]

Quote[/b] (MizuKokami @ Nov. 18 2002,07:43)]also, if most of the other factions allready have a crusade going some place, if you think you can take the french, and your king is real old, you can risk the ex communication. if the pope dies, or your king, you are no longer excomunicated. if you can kill an enemy completely before 2 years is up, you won't get excom. either. with the other factions haveing crusades going, you can only field one crusade at a time. so if the other factions are out crusadeing allready, they can't crusade to kill you.

get the patch. the patch is worth it just to fix that dam circling crusade.
not neccisarily,
I as playing the HRE and I was excomunicated, I killed off my king via battle and I found that my prince was excommunicated by defualt. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
Maybe its a new thing brought on by the patch.

(hey this new smilies are great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif )

[YunDog]

if they are your ally theoretically yes - but pratically?

[solypsist]

yes this is true. I'm currently playing the Italians, and the French and English are constantly going through my choice lands to get use my boats in Genoa. So I've been moving my boats away every time a crusade is declared by these guys, which makes then have to go all the way through Asia, Constantinople, etc. to get to their destination (and subsequently lose and be destroyed.)
moving your boats away will cost you some income, but it may be preferable to losing valuable troops if your province has a high zeal.

[Postino]

i never thought of doing it for that reason. i move my boats out to send my own crusades through my neighbor's provinces. thanks.

[Sandy-San]

well, the french crusade carried on its aimless wandering last night... from Ile de France (where it had been formed) it went to Anoju (my province) then Brittany (also mine) ...and then stopped.

I had a sea lane that would have taken it most of the way to Egypt (which it claims is the target) but then the Elmos decided to attack my shipping. So after a couple of years in Brittany collecting moss and twiddling its thumbs, the crusade then used my sea route to attack the Elmos in Portugal...

I don't know if it asked for permission and was refused (do Islamic factions let crusades pass?) or if it decided to attack the Elmos on the grounds of one infidel is much the same as another, and I still can't work out if it is following the quickest route to its target or what. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[MizuKokami]

maybe if the crusade is going to tripoli, all i have to do is stop tradeing with tripoli. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Lichgod @ Nov. 18 2002,13:48)]How many units can a Crusade banner have? Also, is there a size limit in number of men -- like the 960 for a single stack?

I have read on other threads about a Crusade banner with three pages of units. What is the limit? Both units (48?) and size (960 x 3 = 2880?).

If you dump Mercs into another faction's Crusade, who pays for the upkeep? If the gaining faction, this might be a good way of (1) getting rid of low strength Merc units, (2) filling up slots (if limited) so they dont suck up your good units, and (3) adding some quality to the overall Crusade army so it might have a chance of succeeding.

One last question, if a Crusade does get understrength units, will it build them up from the "free" troops it gets as it passes through empty/garrisoned with non-Crusade-type troops? Ex: A Crusade enters a province garrisoned with peasents but it now has free fanatics, crossbowmen, horse archers, etc that were not part of the Crusade before it entered the province. If I stick understrength Trebz Archers in it (gained from buying a Byz army), will it gain recruits of that type to build it up?
Ok...

A crusade can have up to 32 units in it, be it 32 units of 200 or 32 units of 20. The game doesn't care, so there ie is not real limit of men, but of units.

When units are in a Crusade you don't pay upkeep. At least that is how I think it is. But if you payed, then it would indeed be the Crusading faction that payed for them, they get to keep them, remember.

The Crusade will only build up understrength units if it passes through an area with such units. If you have 24 Feudal Knights in a Crusade and it soaks up another 12 you will have one unit of 36 Knights. But it won't strengthen units you can't get, such as Order troops (unless of course you send the Crusade through province with Order troops).

Personally I hate that you can lose Royal generals to Crusades, and have them become Royal generals for another faction. I didn't keep them around to become kings for other factions (though the potential here is great). Further I think Crusades loses too many troops too fast, especially the Order troops. Why do I lose 3-4 Templars in a province with 75% Zeal? Order troops should stay in to the bitter end or at least as long as the Crusade advances.
Further should I pass over other Order troops from past Crusades, they should join up fully, of course only if there is room.

[hoof]

Another thing is that you won't get the "messenger asks you to let the crusade through" message if you use the spacebar to bypass the computer move. Thus if you see a crusade on your border and don't want it to enter (and don't care about being excommunicated), you *must* let the computer finish its turn so you get the message.

It's most frustrating, IMO, to look at your largest army, only to see it's been decimated by a passing crusade that never asked for permission to pass through (thus you didn't even know it was there).

[solypsist]

merged Crusade Question with Where is tha Crusade Going? threads.

[DojoRat]

Crusades will still stall post patch. They will sit out side a well defended province that is on their direct path and waste away if the odds against them are too great. Constantinople is a good choke point. They will sit in Byzantine Bulgaria and wilt.

Also, I think each crusade decides to go individually. I've had three red ribbon groups sit in Bulgaria and wait even though if they all went in together they would have outnumbered me.

It would be interesting to find out at what point Crusaders would decide to go in. You could turn that choke point province into proving ground for new generals by pulling out just enough garrison to lure the Crusaders in.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Playing as the Danes, I've had the Germans go west to a province I recently took from rebels, Flanders, vacuum up half my troops including the general, then using my trade route ships port attack east all the way to Tripoli. Cheeky s.o.b.'s http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif It's a good idea if you see a crusade headed your way, and your province zeal is high, to move your best troops out of the way. Leave a garrison of plain vanilla troops to guard the province, and let the crusader only take those. I like this increased AI thought process on crusades, makes the game more challenging.

[MizuKokami]

england passed through my lands last night with a crusade. the army that was garrison there was made up of 90 percent mercs., and they still joined up in the crusade. i had gotten into the habit of moving the army that was allready pilfered by crusades where i think the ai's next crusade move will be. they pilfer the same troops twice, and i think that's bs, but it's still better then haveing three armies reduced by 25 percent, especially when there is a chance that your good general's and heirs will join up as well. i have a small sence of satisfaction knowing england has to pay the outrageous cost for mercs. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[hoof]

An added bonus to the vacate-the-lands-as-they-pass approach to Crusades is that the Crusade will usually defend your territory for you if someone decides to strike at that point. At least, the one time I had a crusade move into a territory that was being invaded, they came to my rescue. Not sure the rules on this.

But if it's true (that a crusade will defend your territory), then it should be safe to pull all your troops out minus one low-level unit (to keep the bandits away). The catch is if the crusade goes somewhere else instead, your territory will be defenceless.

I cannot imagine what life must be like playing the HRE with virtually every crusade passing through...

[MizuKokami]

i don't think that it matters who you play, the ai seldom has good shipping lanes, so the other crusaders will go threw your lands. and if crusades were really like this, no wonder muslims hate us.

[Coucy]

One important thing I noticed about post-patch Crusades: IMO, its generally NOT a good idea to include mercenaries in your crusade.

Reason being, regular crusade attrition, PLUS the fact that you now cannot merge understrength mercs. What tends to end up happening on long crusades is that your individual merc companies deplete, and thus deplete permanently. Throw in a battle or two, and on a long crusade, even thru high zeal terratory those merc companies become useless "scrappings," more of a liability than a benefit. Imagine my frustration, clicking on my reinforcement button during battle, and getting...a unit of 3 Kwazarium Cavalrymen Woohoo, this is gonna turn the tide http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

So, my latest strategic advice is, unless its a very very short crusade, regular troops only, no mercs.

[pithorr]

Don't you think German crusaders' objective should rather be Baltic provinces instead Holy Land (at least in the High and Late Period)?

[Spetulhu]

At least it was the King of Poland and his ally (nephew?) the Duke of Lithuania who crushed the Teutonic Knights when they got tired of the constant "crusades".