[Battle Physics] There's some weird mass stuff going on

[QuintusSertorius]

Even aside from cohesion and formation problems, there's a general issue with mass and the physics in the game at present. In EB1, everything was fairly credible; heavy infantry slammed into lighter troops and slowly pushed them aside. Heavy cavalry would almost sweep away skirmishers, and on hitting with a proper charge would penetrate deep into a unit. Skirmishers could not hold heavier infantry, and if in a loose formation would barely affect the passage of cavalry.

In EBII at present, everything gently brushes against each other like they have no momentum or mass; I saw my cavalry halt just short of the impact point, then trot in to the final contact, and most of those behind the lead units switched to their swords before they'd even hit. One man is enough to halt an entire unit and cause an attack to fail as everyone blobbily swarms around the sole impediment. Heavier troops are incapable of pushing lighter ones out of the way.

I don't get a sense that there's any force behind anything in the way I did in EB1. I don't think this is a "bug", but rather some settings in the myriad text files. Does anyone know what I mean?

[bisthebis]

I think M2TW is crap.

[gstephenopolous]

Yeah, this was a big problem in M2. Funny how CA insists on going backwards.

[Ibrahim]

Even aside from cohesion and formation problems, there's a general issue with mass and the physics in the game at present. In EB1, everything was fairly credible; heavy infantry slammed into lighter troops and slowly pushed them aside. Heavy cavalry would almost sweep away skirmishers, and on hitting with a proper charge would penetrate deep into a unit. Skirmishers could not hold heavier infantry, and if in a loose formation would barely affect the passage of cavalry.

In EBII at present, everything gently brushes against each other like they have no momentum or mass; I saw my cavalry halt just short of the impact point, then trot in to the final contact, and most of those behind the lead units switched to their swords before they'd even hit. One man is enough to halt an entire unit and cause an attack to fail as everyone blobbily swarms around the sole impediment. Heavier troops are incapable of pushing lighter ones out of the way.

I don't get a sense that there's any force behind anything in the way I did in EB1. I don't think this is a "bug", but rather some settings in the myriad text files. Does anyone know what I mean?

you and me both. have it on the to do list right now.

[QuintusSertorius]

I think M2TW is crap.

I don't think it's that categoric and simple. I seem to remember there being mass issues in earlier versions of EB1 that were later addressed satisfactorily. Though in that instance I think it was too far the other way, with men being catapulted high into the air by cavalry charges (though not dying).

[Ibrahim]

I don't think it's that categoric and simple. I seem to remember there being mass issues in earlier versions of EB1 that were later addressed satisfactorily. Though in that instance I think it was too far the other way, with men being catapulted high into the air by cavalry charges (though not dying).

the same issue exists in M2TW: right now the masses are a compromise: not too low that they do nothing (in principle), and not too high that they send people flying. When it does work, it works well enough, but from what I'm reading, it seems the rule is that the charge bonus is simply not being applied. This is possibly partly due to pathfinding issues (since a single guy causes all the unit to hang up), and partly due to details in the stat system (most likely the battle_config file, though the EDU is a possibility).

[QuintusSertorius]

the same issue exists in M2TW: right now the masses are a compromise: not too low that they do nothing (in principle), and not too high that they send people flying. When it does work, it works well enough, but from what I'm reading, it seems the rule is that the charge bonus is simply not being applied. This is possibly partly due to pathfinding issues (since a single guy causes all the unit to hang up), and partly due to details in the stat system (most likely the battle_config file, though the EDU is a possibility).

Can the same values from RTW not be used, at least as a starting point if they're similar enough, or are the underlying systems just too fundamentally different for any learning there to apply?

[Ibrahim]

Can the same values from RTW not be used, at least as a starting point if they're similar enough, or are the underlying systems just too fundamentally different for any learning there to apply?

you can in principle do it, but only indirectly. This system currently in use, as mentioned elsewhere, did not originate within M2TW, but rather RTW: ALX (where it actually works almost perfectly: certainly no missile blues :clown:). So you have to change things around either way.

One problem with importing it directly from EBI though is pretty straightforward: I have no idea what methodology was used to derive the results. I know the tool used, but not the reason the parameters of that tool were set to where they were, or even what the values that generated the stats were (and in fact, the stat system I inherited was not, as far as I can tell, based directly off of EBI either). This is necessary in order to apply this to a game where soldiers can be diversely equipped withing a single unit.