View Full Version : Pahlava AAR ver 2.01 Part I Baktria insults my envoy

09-16-2014, 05:25
Hi, It seems I cannot do a turn by turn AAR because I can't stop clicking next turn. Part I: Will encompass the first 134 turns.
In the beginning I decided to turn my attention to the Saka Rauka not wishing to have them hovering in the north while I fought in the south.
To that purpose I sent out my diplomat to arrange peace with my neighbors. I wished for an alliance with Baktria, Saka was a danger to them as well.
The army captured Bukharak and then fought a few rebel armies. I am mainly a builder early in the game so I was content to reduce the size of the army to save money while I built my 3 towns.
My diplomat went to speak with Baktria and arranged trade without issue, but when I asked for a exchange of maps and an alliance they replied "we will laugh at that joke over our ale". I would have taken a simple "thanks but no thanks"
Baktria then began a rapid expansion and when they reached my border by acquiring Antiocheia-Marg I became concerned enough to begin mobilizing the Army.
The first campaign was to capture A-M and then drive down the long straight road to Baktra. The Army was composed of 2 Family Members with 6 Horse Archer type units, 2 cataphracts, 4 tribal/Hillman types, 2 Hellenic medium spear, 4 archers.
Once A-M was unders siege Baktria began sending relief forces but they were in small, separated groups. I detached one leader with 4 horse archer units to deal with this threat. Over the course of the next 4 turns he disposed of 6 groups composed of 9 enemy units. None of them contained cavalry. He was unable to rejoin the main army before a larger Baktrian force arrived to attempt to lift the siege. I had made up for this by sending new units from Pahlava as well as several more mercenaries.
In the resulting battle all Baktrian forces were destroyed and A-M was captured. The road to Baktra was now clear.
Pausing just long enough to rebuild depleted units the army moved down the long highway that Baktria had thoughtfully just improved.
In what became the standard for sieges during this war Baktria moved scattered formations in their attempt to lift the siege while my detachments held them off. It was in one of these that their faction heir Diodotu was killed. He was attempting to meet up with another army but it was destroyed leaving him nearby with just his bodyguard. Put up a good fight but was overwhelmed. By now my detached leader had an army of his own (all cav).
With the fall of Baktra I attempted to convert the population to the Pahlavan way of life but ended up turning it into an allied city.
Seems you can't ungreek these Greeks.
Next I moved to secure the flank by capturing Oskohara. I appealed to Baktria to accept terms but once again was rebuffed. Saka went to war with them at this time. I formed an alliance with Saka.
Marakanda was next and because Saka was laying siege to Antiocheia-Eschate , Baktria sent no help south. They did however defeat Saka in time for my army to arrive. Using Saka units nearby I fought a battle in the open that destroyed the army outside of town.
Several events now conspired to delay movement to the final Baktrian city.
My faction leader died, The governor in Bukharak died leaving me with no one to shuttle depleted units home to rebuild and move back to the front. And it was at this time that the city of Baktra became unmanageable as a Royal land and was converted to Allied City but still the unrest required a large garrision. (in numbers the garrision in Baktra is my largest force) I began to experience a shortage of money and my building programs were halted.
I reduced overhead by placing my more expensive units into the minor settlements but they could not be used in the field.
I went through the captured towns and destroyed for the revenue all the improvements that offered +1 to culture. (I hope that was greek culture they were growing)
So there was about a 5 year pause before I was able to continue.
On turn 129 I had the army gathered at A-E (minus infantry and foot archer units) I would buy these just outside of Oyrta.
On turn 134 the Battle was fought.


(It will require several edits/posts to cover battle)

Each Baktrian army contained 2 leaders. The better general and the faction leader were not in command of the army they were in.
The army outside of town contained depleted mostly infantry/missile units. The army in town was full strength with around 50 percent cav.
The ground was open, hilly and rough with a large flat toped mountain dominating.


Here the enemy is moving up the mountain. 2 of my Baktrian horse archers are following.
There was another path up the mountain behind my starting position. I detached a horse archer, tribal skirmisher and a foot archer to climb it. Later I added a tribal axe unit to this force but it never made the climb.

My horse archer drove off a enemy light cav unit to gain access to the summit. In this he was aided by my light infantry. However one of the enemy leaders charged over and routed my infantry and it seemed I would be pushed off. But the Baktrian's only pushed me back long enough for a small force to descend down the path I had just ascended. This placed them in the rear of my army down below.
Anticipating the arrival of the second enemy army I had held back half my infantry (2 units yippee) and a foot archer. They deployed on a hill facing this new threat while the cataphracts went up the hill in mass.
Here is where the axe men encountered the enemy coming down the hill. I sent a horse archer to their aid.
The enemy leader now found his supporting units were routing so he rode to come up the path behind my assault I met him with the reserve and he turned around again. He would spend the rest of the day running between my forces. .


Most of this first Baktrian army was light infantry/archer types but lagging in the rear going up the mountain were 3 native phalanx units. I had used 2 Baktrian horse archers to harry them while my massed heavy cav moved into position to climb the path. When they charged they hit the rear phalanx and it broke. Moving the horse archers out of this furball I had them attack enemy skirmishers to the left while the charge moved on up. Seeing the 3rd phalanx had turned around and was bracing to receive the shock I divided the cav and had 3 units engage while the other 4 went into the gap my horse archers had opened driving back the enemy light troops. Into this hole in his line moved the second enemy leader. I had one unit turn around and hit the phalanx from behind breaking it and adding 4 units to my move upwards.

When this second leader broke and ran the entire army (except for leader number 1 down below) broke and the mountain top was mine. Of course now the second larger enemy army appeared on the map edge.

14416 looking down at new enemy army

Waiting for the enemy on my extreme left I had placed 2 of my 4 Baktrian horse archers (the other two had went up the hill) I also had 2 horse archer units but they were both commited. One chasing the leader and one on the mountain top. What I had not committed were those 2 light infantry and foot archer and I saw they were going to be crushed by those 8 charging enemy horse units. So I ordered 5 of my heavies into double line and sent them down the mountain full speed. They hit the enemy charge right in the flank and two of the enemy Saka horse routed right away and right out of the battle.

14417 the heavies right before impact.

It was a general melee for a while but compared to climbing the mountain coming down it went a lot faster.
When the charge was about to stall I sent the last 2 heavy horse down aimed right at enemy leader. He was facing the wrong direction. With his capture this second army broke and ran and the rest was just mopping up.



I don't have any ale but I did drink a beer!

09-16-2014, 20:17
Hi, It is now turn 175 and 10 years since the war with Baktria ended. I have used the time to build improvements in my cities, train the next generation of leaders, and map Arche Seleucia for the coming conflict. The army has rid the kingdom of rebels and built a chain of watch towers along my borders with my 3 "Allied" factions. All towns now have governors and several more young men are attending school in Baktra (it has my most advanced school at lvl 3) I have one daughter available and 3 more boys who will come of age in the next 3 or 4 years. I can be picky with the suitors for the girls (no old men).
Every town except Bukharak is green. Baktra is even happy now. I am building stone walls to keep out the nomad types.
The army is marching north to capture a rebel town that will block Saka expansion south. As far as I can tell they only have 3 small settlements and one of them is part of my VC but I do not need to destroy their faction.
In fact I am scared to take their capital. I was testing Kart-Dast and how fast they could destroy the Numidian faction. Well capturing their 1 settlement on turn 3 is a real bad idea because they sprout an enormous horde. I think the Saka might do this as well and I'd rather not have that to deal with. On the reverse I took the Numidians and forced the horde growth and captured the 3 main Kart-Dast cities within 10 turns. (sometimes play testing is interesting and scary)
A.S. is still the largest most powerfull faction but I am the most advanced and richest.
The Taksashila(Indians) declared war on them a few turns ago.
I need 3 armies with good, loyal leaders. 2 for the war and 1 as a mobile reserve to deal with any surprises. I think around turn 200 I will be able to commence. I need to find a city I can build ships in. I am mainly waiting for the current faction leader to pass on so I don't have turmoil early in the new war.
till next time may all your battles be sweet overwhelming victories!

09-16-2014, 23:50
Hi, Turn 200 now. Faction leader died on turn 181. I needed a Saka camp for my VC so I offered them 5k plus 500 a turn for 28 turns. No deal. I offered them 10k, no deal end of talks. Next turn I offered 25k and they got real nasty so I cancelled the alliance and trade agreement and attacked and captured the place. offered 10k for peace, no deal. Moved north toward Gava Saka and found my army had contracted the plague in the camp and the army suffered all the way north. Captured Gava Saka and offered 2.5k, return of Gava Saka and a trade deal. Peace was made so I gifted them 2.5k more.
While this was going on one of Arche Seleucia towns Syrinx revolted and joined my faction starting the war. Now my army is up in quarantine from the plague without end. (it's been more then 2 years) So I pulled 3 kids out of school at Baktra and placed them in command of an army they are building as they move. They are laying siege to Asaak at present. Depleted my treasury doing all this and at present just barely have balanced budget.

09-17-2014, 01:02
Hi, It is only turn 202. The plague continues to inflict loss to my army stuck up near Chach. The faction leader died.
The kids captured Asaak against odds however the following turn Arche Seleucia flexed it's muscles and invaded 3 of my provinces in strength. They arrived outside Asaak in numbers my depleted forces could not match. So like a cowardly dog I sued for peace. I returned Asaak as well as the town that started the war Syrinx.
Gave away money. And after they accepted I formed an alliance with them!?! My new faction leader is on the fringes of the kingdom and will require at least a year to reach the capital. At least he is young. By reducing overhead (The garrison of Syrinx was costing 2k per turn) my budget is much healthier. When the plague ends it will cost 20k+ to rebuild my main army. (don't you hate it when someone says "decimated"?, I wish I had only been decimated)
Now I know it will not be a matter of 1 or 2 armies invading Arche Seleucia. I must grovel for a while.

09-17-2014, 02:37
Hi, Turn 220 now. The King spent 3.5 years force marching home. Now he is exhausted and sick. Looking back I may have helped kill the last one by marching him home. (half the distance but at twice the age)
He has increased his authority.
Since my armor won't fit over all these chicken feathers I have dispatched diplomats to all the factions at war with A.S. Every turn I hand out money as gifts to keep them fighting. Two years ago you could not find an army from Ptolemy. They were bankrupt. I moved them to meager and now very poor and units are leaving Alexandria.
Makedon also is present in Egypt and I gift them money as well. The Indians get some even though I made peace between them and A.S.
(when you ally with a faction at war with one of your allies they make peace) That's why the !?! since I don't know how that will turn out.
The army is rebuilt. However I need to triple the size of my current forces before I can hope to hold anything I capture.
Even though I hand out 5k+ per turn I have become the richest faction again (30k+ in bank)
All cities are green. Now I have to wait and see if A.S. can fight all these factions at once. They are at war with at least 5 factions. Have seen a slight decrease in the number of their armies near my territory.


09-17-2014, 20:34
Hi, Well nothing to report because I went chasing will-o-wisps. Gave A-S 15k for access because I thought there were rebel cities I could take that would allow me a another front when I began the great war. However they were all ready owned.
Off topic- should I post details from battles? What should I pay attention to and what should I ignore?
When the next version is posted what faction should I play?

09-17-2014, 21:22
HI, Turn 270. I am about to invade A.S. I realize I cannot match them man for man. I must win battles. My generals are all untried.
There will be no turning back, no pleas for peace. Pahlava's future rests on victory

V.T. Marvin
09-18-2014, 11:38
Great campaign - good luck with your wars! :2thumbsup: :charge:

I went through the captured towns and destroyed for the revenue all the improvements that offered +1 to culture. (I hope that was greek culture they were growing)
Different buildings increase different cultures regardless of faction that owns them - so beware! For instance the odds are that among the buildings you destroyed were Foreign Military Colonies that spread "Eastern Imperial" cuture. That one is foreign to you now just as the Hellenistic one, but later on, after Pahlavan reforms that switch the factional culture to from "Steppe Nomadic" to "Eastern Imperial", it will save a lot of trouble if that culture is more prevalent in your regions. :2cents:

09-19-2014, 01:45
Hi, Turn 300 now. Had 104k in the bank when I began mobilizing. Built new units and called on units in settlements till budget was 6k in deficient. Still had 80k when I broke alliance and declared war following turn. The turn I declare war Egypt makes peace, Pergamum and KB become AS vassals and Pontus is destroyed. The war with A.S. on my front began well I captured 3 cities against weak garrisons and wiped out the first reinforcement armies.
Then A.S. responded sending around a dozen large groups (how do they afford these armies?) I had 3 armies. First Army captured and defended Asaaka
Second Army attacked Alexandria-Areia and then moved down to Prophthasia before heading back north with the intent of moving west in conjunction with First Army. I also had a Reserve army that the other two drew replacements from while depleted units moved to rebuild.
Along with these full armies A.S. sent a half dozen assassins that parked around Alexandria-Areia. I recruited one myself and over time he eliminated the opposition. So there were 6 enemy stacks moving toward Asaaka, 4 headed for Alexandria-Areia and 2 approaching Prophthasia. I had only left a 3 unit plus leader garrison in Prophthasia so I tore down what I could and moved it north to join the garrison of A-A.
For nearly 5 years my armies have fought 2 or more battles per turn. There are still 4 enemy armies visible to my spies. One near A-A is a new formation at full size and strength the others are composites of defeated groups with new units thrown in.Sadly two of my best battles CTD before saving. (1400 man First Army defeats and destroys 2 AS armies totaling over 3400 men)
I am a few turns from being able to resume the offensive.
Two of my leaders were killed when the program glitched. I had selected one to command depleted units moving to repair when the stack became inaccessible but was still visible on map. The enemy attacked it and it would not retreat before combat nor retreat after it lost the battle so it was just attacked multiple times in that turn till everyone died. Don't know how the second leader was killed in the battle since he was not assigned to that group.

one of many battles (opps wrong screen shot)

14438 no ransom (total value of prisoners taken to date is in excess of 100k)

14439 what happens to enemy generals?

V.T. Marvin
09-19-2014, 07:46
Wow! Good to see such a massive response from the AI! Sweet! :2thumbsup:

09-19-2014, 08:46
Hi, And these are not cheap stacks. Most contain one or more Royal Guard, Elite Skirmishers, Elite Cavalry, If the ransom price is the unit cost then most of these armies cost 30k or more. Their response had to cost 250k in unit purchase price and who knows in upkeep per turn.
My entire military costs around 24kper turn in up keep. (prior to mobilizing it was 19390 per turn) I'm smaller now then I was when war began since I have had to combine units. I think my peak up keep was close to 30k per turn. Most of my cavalry costs 591 per turn. My model army costs 42,500 in purchase and around 7k per turn in up keep. Of course I've never actually fielded a model army let alone 2 of them.
So A.S. must be making lots of money to keep all these units in field and send more, oh yeah did I mention the third wave has arrived?
I am preparing to abandon Alexandria-Ariea. If A.S. Can maintain this kind of attack I'm doomed. Even winning battles costs me more then I can replace.
My lawn gnomes (it's those funny hats they wear) just wiped out a 2500 man army attacking the bridge at A-A. (I started with 1500) But before A.S. finished the move he hit again with a 3500 man army and I had to retreat since I was down to 700 men. I don't have 2 armies anymore I have 2 half armies and I've replaced my powerful units with lawn gnomes
I may have to go back to my prewar save and try again with a larger starting army but it means another 5 years of sitting there watching him destroy all the other factions.
If I don't waste all my money giving it away I can have 300k at start. That would support 3 model armies for 3 years, more if I can capture a town per year.
But I will wait to be destroyed before going back.

09-19-2014, 10:24
Hi, Turn 317 suddenly everything is quiet. After getting just outside Alexandria-Ariea a massive A.S. Army just moved off to the west and is sitting there. The other armies around Hekatompylos all moved off to the south and west. It might be Ptolemy's doing since they declared war again a few turns ago. I had already begun knocking buildings down and had left a suicide garrison in A-A. In the lull I have rebuilt First Army. It has new leadership. A.S. sent 5 assassins with the 3rd wave and one of them killed the general who was also my faction heir. My assassin has killed at least 12 of theirs so far but he can only kill 1 per turn. Now every turn a new one is standing outside the walls.
If I can rebuild Second Army before he comes back I'll be happy. My infantry (the lawn gnomes) all come out of Chach now. It's a long march. I need 2 axe units, 2 archer, and 2 Saka Riders (my light cav) 1st Army is still without the Saka riders. I placed an extra leader and 2 skirmish infantry in to fill up their slots. So 2nd Army has the major units (4 cataphracts and 4 Baktrian Horse Archer) but is missing the supports. My infantry is really weak so I mainly use it as speed bumps while the heavy stuff gets into position. The horse archers turn into light cav once they expend their arrows and clear the flanks of the heavies. (and pursue routing units) I like the Saka riders as supports for the horse archers. (they are cheaper and do the same job chasing light units and routing units) The axe units and archers just sit and provide a wall for me to move behind. The foot skirmisher are cheap but not that effective since enemy light cav can run them off/over where they can't catch my mounted skirmishers. I don't buy phalanx units. (I break them) I like the Saka Noble Cavalry but they are too small. (I'm set for huge units and they have 62 men same as the cats) But they can't stand melee like the cats. I have one unit left out of 6 I started with and now it's back in Chach. Wish I could find some of that artillery in the mercenary pool. I like to use it to defend bridges. A.S. has not used any against me yet.

09-21-2014, 03:33
This is great stuff!

09-22-2014, 02:22
Hi, I had the wrong turn on last post it was 214 not 217. On turn 217 I am in lots of trouble. I lost Alexandria-Ariea and it was not pretty.
First Army had went down to attack Syrinx and encountered 10 A-S stacks that combined would equal 6 full stacks. When attacked by 5k enemy I retreated but ended up farther from home. Now I will have to really fight to save 1st Army and 2nd Army is not built. A.S. has 3 to 5 armies moving towards my capital so it's going to take some fighting to save my bacon

09-22-2014, 03:23
Hi, I am convinced I have to go back to turn 270. A.S. has 40k troops invading my land and I have under 2k to fight them. My main army fought itself out of existence. I think I can fight a war against them but I need to prepare more. Once I start I can't stop to rebuild. So I need twice as much to begin with. Also I can't wish for help from other factions. I will build 3 model armies with 2 reserve. I will have another army whose mission is assaulting cities rather then waiting for starvation. This army does not require the high priced cavalry but can utilize a much higher percentage of cheap easy to replace infantry.
I am sorry but I spent the last three days trying to save myself and despite winning all the battles I still ran out of troops. A.S. still had more troops in my territory then I could muster ignoring that it would put me in the negative cash wise. It wears me out fighting repeated battles and winning only to face larger odds with a depleted force. 1st Army went from 2k to 1.5k to 1k to .5kmen and still was winning but could not get home. I spent all my income buying mercenaries and knocking down buildings in my cities for cash. In the end I had 2k men mostly cheap mercenary infantry surrounded by 10k. What made me concede was another 10k enemy was outside my capital. I think I could have beat some of them. but I could not beat all of them.
In this restart I will still have to face all this. The difference is I will not send 1 army. I will have to fight 3 or 4 battles per turn at the start but after that I should out number them. (plus I will have all these cities to rebuild in)
I am going to start with my "ideal" armies. hey we're only testing right?

Aside: defending cities without flaming arrows/missiles is difficult. You can't hurt their siege equipment.
There is no room to deploy defending forces inside cities. You are forced into waiting till they attack town square.

14459 my small army and depleted unit army fighting one battle out of several in single turn

ok it is no fun getting beat up turn after turn. So I will go back in time to where I think I can still pretend to hope to win.

09-22-2014, 03:48
lol ...nice try though and interesting reading for me :2thumbsup:

09-22-2014, 04:32
Hi, It seems (and it makes perfect sense) that you can't decide to go to war spur of the moment. It requires me 2 or 3 years just to move troops from far edge of kingdom to front. While I do that I still have to pay their upkeep. So my expense triples 3 years before they ever get into combat. In my practice run I went from 104k in bank to 48k and the majority of my units were still 2 years from where the fighting was. If you have 10 or more units that cost 600 per turn in free upkeep settlements and then pull them out.... Never mind buying new units to flesh out your armies. 100k in the bank is not near enough to go to war with.
Athens before the start of the Peloponnesian War had enough (they thought) for 3 years. They ran out of money before 2 complete. They fought another 25 but never had enough to do anything right and the one massive expenditure (Sicily) was a disaster. Money matters.
My armies win every battle but reach a point where I can't afford (and the word is afford) to fight another.
A.S. it seems can actually have armies destroyed but still field another army. (Gee I feel like Carthage fighting the Romans) I cannot afford to provide replacements let alone build a new army.
If you are going to play these factions that take on the major historical players then you must always from the beginning realize the necessity of fielding armies that can win against formidable odds. You can't auto battle (even when you win you suffer too much loss)
You can't use run of the mill troop types and replacing the expensive ones takes time.
I have not tried every faction yet. So far Kart-Dast appears to be on the easy side. (I can destroy Rome within 100 turns easy)
Baktria and the break away factions are harder. Rome is easy (just prepare for Carthage) I've never figured out the Gauls.
All the little factions stuck between Rome and A.S. are adventures. The point being the faction with the money will challenge the faction living in mud huts.
I know there is not time for such a game but imagine a game where every faction had a human player. The diplomacy in that game would not in any way correspond to what happens in game now. Or maybe the diplomacy in a all human game would not correspond to what was possible in 272BC. (We know history) What if all the Greeks had got together and said "lets stop fighting" Make all the Greek factions one faction and see how far you get playing a non Greek faction.
Boy I can ramble off topic once I start

09-22-2014, 04:55
Hi, This is a question for the artists. Is their a problem rendering proportion? In this picture how tall would the horse be (or how short the rider)14460 how long is this horse?
I swear some of the spears people carry are 11 feet long. This is a minor issue with me but I am curious if it is just the limits of computer animation.

09-27-2014, 04:27
Hi, Well I went back 50 turns and after several attempts at building an army that could fight AS on even terms I realized it was not possible.
So I had to fight against the odds. I built 1 very strong all cavalry army and 1 all infantry army. The infantry would take the towns while the cavalry fought battles in the open.
The First War has just ended on turn 306. I returned Prophethasia but retained Asaaka and Alexandria-Ariea so I gained two cities.
There were 9 battles fought by the cavalry army and 2 open field battles and 3 sieges by the infantry army.
The open field battles resulted Pahlava losing 1,086 men. AS lost 6,869 KIA 10,682 POW for a total of 17,551 (since there were no ransoms paid) The value of the POW ransoms was $93,829
AS really throws assassins at you. They arrive 5 or 6 in the first batch and then 2 or 3 per turn from then on. One of them killed my general commanding the cavalry army after the first 3 battles. I now have 3 assassins myself each has killed multiple enemy assassins. (as far as I know the only way to kill one is to use one yourself.) I have never tried to kill any one not an assassin.
When I made peace there were 6 full stack enemy armies in the theatre of war. No enemy army ever survived to fight a second battle.
I decided to end the war because my budget had entered deficit. I still have 20k plus in treasury and disbanded units to go positive 28mina a turn. I began the war with 104k in bank. The money was spent rebuilding units and buying garrisons for cities as well as recruiting spies and assassins. I will build my two cities and park my high upkeep units to go at least +2k per turn.
I will let AS make the next move.

I also fooled around with Pontus and Getai for 100 turns each.

09-27-2014, 07:44
Hi, Turn 340. The peace remains in force but A.S. continues to send assassins my way. I continue to kill them as soon as they arrive.
Converted my capital to permanent settlement (from Royal Clan lands) because it had not grown in ages and had no defensive walls. However now I only have one place to recruit cataphracts. I have not recruited a new unit of these in years. I have 1 surplus unit that provides replacements after battles and then rebuilds. I made a unit with 9 experience my replacement unit so the experience of my army does not suffer from replacements. Also I had 2 cities that stayed yellow no matter what so I tore down the eastern greek temples and built new ones. That fixed them so I went to all my cities and replaced the eastern greek temples. Now I have a little population growth at normal tax levels rather then having to decide on growth at low tax or no growth at normal. Presently I gain 1.5k per turn but have been spending it on city development as fast as I earn it.
My faction leader passed away and the following turn 3 leaders I had (without troops) building watch towers decided to form a rebel army.
They made their change while standing next to my main army. They died. I had collected them from cities with multiple leaders removing those unfit to govern or command. I am going through the cities again and sending all such men south to form a army of disgruntled/incompetent leaders. They can chase rebels or rebel themselves without causing me trouble. The new faction leader has not yet gained authority but all armies are commanded by loyal men. The towns do not matter since leaders do not desert on their own while in town. (just kill unfriendly diplomats who try to bribe them)(I have not had to kill a diplomat yet)
I'm thinking another 5 years before next war. Have not built any new armies. Plan is to gain Hekatompolis and Syrinx in next war.

09-27-2014, 11:25
Hi, Turn 360. Preparing for next war. Moving armies to border. One of my replacement cat units with experience 7 deserted on way to front.
Have a new faction leader. All cities green. +1.5k in treasury per turn 20k in bank. Been no assassins for a couple of years.

14488 Cavalry Army Cost of units 42,792 Upkeep per turn 6,982

14490Infantry Army Cost of units xxxx Upkeep per turn 4,549

09-27-2014, 16:18
You should bribe your army back :smartass:

09-27-2014, 20:05
Hi, Turn 382. The Armies are poised on the frontier (in fact 1 small army headed for Syrinx is already across) My diplomat will declare war next turn. 11k in bank is lowest amount in a while but I hope to quickly capture Syrinx, Hekatompylos and Prophethasia to increase revenue and allow the small army to fill out.
I tried bribing my cat unit back but they enjoyed being bandits on my trade road outside Baktra. I sent an assassin to deal with traitorous leader and then diplomat. After 10 turns of their leaders having accidents I had a master assassin and an expert assassin but no deal so I dispatched them with an army composed of my disloyal/incompetent leaders. Another faction leader has died. Several events delayed the start of war. First a plague ravaged Alexandrie-Areia and then the faction leader died. The new faction leader is commanding the infantry army with his heir commanding the cavalry army. Another loyal leader commands the reserve/replacement army (assigned the capture of Syrinx. Lastly the 10 leader army has been given a few depleted infantry units and assigned Prophethasia and defense of south-east border.
I hope for 3 or 4 turns before A.S. can begin arriving in force.
Starting a war is easy. Getting it to end when you want is the difficult part. I realize I cannot destroy A.S. in this war but hope to use Prophethasia again in the bargaining and retain Syrinx and Hekatompylos and any other cities I aquire. My cavalry army has demonstrated repeatedly that if maintained with quality replacements it can take on any 2 A.S. armies.

But wait I just discovered this "forced diplomacy mod"

A side note. On the transition screen there is a quote supposedly from the Spartan Callicratidas to the Athenian Conon that he will stop Conon from "screwing the sea" Donald Kagan (the "man" when it comes to Peloponnesian War) translates Xenophon, Hellenica 1.6.14 as stopping Conon's "adulterous affair with the sea"

09-27-2014, 23:39
Hi, This is a question for the artists. Is their a problem rendering proportion? In this picture how tall would the horse be (or how short the rider)14460 how long is this horse?
I swear some of the spears people carry are 11 feet long. This is a minor issue with me but I am curious if it is just the limits of computer animation.

well the 11 ft spears are fine; you are right about the horses. I actually brought this up a while back, independently from you.

09-27-2014, 23:40
Hi, Turn 387. Captured Prophethasia on second turn of war. Hekatompylos on third. 35k when city sacked!!! Sent most trustworthy of my reject leaders into India and recruited mercenaries to provide garrison/replacements. Captured Syrinx after bloody siege battle on fourth turn. Laying siege to Apameia. No less then 6 full A.S. armies are making approach marches into area. The cavalry intends on attacking the most advanced before turning to face 2 armies that are moving in harmony near Rhagea


09-28-2014, 02:02

14494 Enemy army composed of all infantry

14495 My army consists of 2 wings and a center. I think of each unit as a regiment. Each regiment is paired forming a brigade. The center contains 3 brigades of heavy cavalry 2 brigades of Baktrian Horse-Archers and the command unit. Each wing consists of a brigade of Light Cavalry (Saka Riders) and a mixed Brigade of a Saka Noble and a Horse-Archer. The wings find the enemy flanks and rear hinged to center by the Saka Noble. I expend all my missile ammo while encircling and then launch a mass charge from all directions. (once the Baktrian Horse-Archers expend their ammo they reform in double line on flank)

14496 looking down my line from my left to my right


14498 No ransom

Time to replenish army before enemy arrives for next battle

09-29-2014, 16:09

14520 A.S. attempts to lift siege and is challenged by my Cavalry Army

14521 Enemy army contains 3 leaders and cavalry

14522 They deploy with cavalry to defend flanks. This requires a change in my tactics since the battle will be decided by cavalry versus cavalry. I detach a brigade of heavies from center for each wing. Remaining brigade goes from double line to single line in center.

14523my starting array prior to movement of heavy brigades. I have substituted a Baktrian Horse-Archer from reserve army for Saka rider that requires rebuilding. My deputy commander will fill in on that wing. The BHA will strengthen my center.

14524 enemy leaders as expected lead fight for flanks and are routed by my heavies

14525 the large outer circle is formed. In this stage the enemy light and support troops are driven off leaving the phalanx in the smaller inner circle

14526 the small inner circle prepares for attack from all directions



14529 After capturing Apameia I opened peace negotiations and A.S. accepted terms I kept Syrinx, Hekatompylos and Apameia and returned Prophethasia (the conditions I set prior to starting war.)

It is now turn 427. Have been rebuilding my armies and intend on adding a second cavalry army for Third War. One of my leaders I entrusted with moving 4 depleted units (2 Saka Noble and 2 Saka rider) led them astray after they rebuilt. My assassin showed him the error of his ways and without him the 4 units returned to loyalty (with a hefty bribe)
I now feel my forces are equal to A.S. The next war should break their back. I intend on splitting their empire

09-30-2014, 06:29
turn 427....can you show me a toggle fow of the mini maps faction progression ta.

09-30-2014, 08:35
Hi, Turn 439 The Third war is underway. I have captured Prophthasia (for the third time) as well as Rhagea and Ekbatana. I have two cavalry armies and two infantry armies.


14536 as requested

I'm still hoping to capture two or three more towns. Have fought 1 major battle and preparing to fight two this turn with new cavalry army. (it has veteran units) First Infantry Army has Aspadana under siege as present. My Second Cavalry Army has aspirations of going to Babylon but it will have to fight it's way there.
The mission would be to clear route for Second Infantry Army

10-01-2014, 20:38
Hi, Turn 440 and not done fighting for the turn. I think I am suffering from battle fatigue. Have A.S. capital under siege. It is Arebela
Have reached the Indian Ocean/Red Sea with one army. Buying mercenaries to maintain armies







still no less then 9 full A.S. armies in immediate area not counting city garrisons

10-02-2014, 04:21
Hi, Turn 444 War ends I return Prophthasia but keep 5 cities.


I have split A.S.

10-02-2014, 06:16
Hi, Turn 453 I have a real problem. I have 4 leaders I can trust outside of town (and 1 of them worries me)
40 Pahlava leaders 13 have 0 loyalty, 10 have 1 loyalty, 13 have 2 loyalty, 1 has 3, 1 has 4, 1 has 5 (guess who gets the army) and then the faction leader. I have 2 cavalry armies and 1 infantry army because that's all the leaders I can trust to command a powerful force inside my own borders. Cities are going without governors because as they die from old age I can't move leaders. I have all the disloyal ones out in a minor settlement in the desert. I am thinking of building a boat and sending them across to Arabia where they can't bother me. My loyal leaders are getting old and I have no replacement Army commanders. I don't think my schools have any impact. I have schools in all towns. I send boys to my 2 large schools. They never get any better. From the description the boys are supposed to be in school till their 15, at 16 their full grown. I keep them in school till their mid 20's to no effect.
This has always been a beta test but I think it is about over. I am going to install the fixes for leaders and a few other mini mods

10-05-2014, 12:08
Hi, turn 503. Installed the leader fix mini mod and waited for new leaders. Have new faction leader, heir and governors. Moved army to start 4th War and disaster, First Cavalry army with new leader loyalty 3 deserted. Assassin dealt with traitor but for 5 turns have been unable to convince units to return. I have the forced diplomacy mod but don't know how to make it work. Can't lose 42k worth of experienced units. Also now I am worried about the other 4 armies with loyalty 3. Have largest army now I ever had. If I get First Army back I will have 4 Cavalry Armies (not all constituted like First and Second 2 new ones use local troop types) and 3 Infantry Armies. Next war should pretty much knock A.S. down to minor league status. I'm hoping First Army does not wander off or start attacking my other armies.
(I can't bear to lose my old veteran units)

10-13-2014, 18:27
I have the forced diplomacy mod but don't know how to make it work. Doesn't work with bribes. The best you can do, maybe, is add_money x and offer them that, x being the amount you want to add.