Total War: Attila - Initial Thoughts

[edyzmedieval]

I'm mildly excited about the upcoming game. :yes:

Probably because it evokes some memories of Napoleon:TW, which in my opinion was a very good TW game. But memories aside, I'm mildly excited because of three things:



Eastern Roman Empire VS Sassanids (Barbarian Invasion was a ton of fun because of that - let's hope Attila has that)
Rome II is now an enjoyable game - which roughly will translate to Attila
Fighting off the Hunnic invasion as the Romans - a proper challenge


Most likely, Attila will be an evolution of Rome 2, and that in itself is a good thing because after 15 or so patches the "initial" game evolved to a good level. Not sure if I will pre-order it, I'm still waiting out to hear some more details about it, but initial signs are looking pretty positive. I wasn't that excited about Rome 2, an opinion which now changed due to the game (I'm enjoying it), but Attila is a bit different. :book:

Thoughts?

[Hooahguy]

Im cautiously excited. If this was an entire new game with a new engine and everything Id be more cautious, but seeing as its building upon Rome 2 and not trying to start from scratch as they did from Shogun 2 to Rome 2, Im thinking that while there might still be some AI issues (as there almost always are with TW games), the bugs I think should largely be gone. In theory anyways. The new mechanics with the advancing winter and scorched earth abilities are making me rather excited!

I have yet to decide if I will pre-order or not.

[Kamakazi]

Im not even sure you can preorder it yet... did a quick search around and didn't see the ability..... I will most likely preorder... im a glutton for release game punishment I guess

[Phil of Loreauville]

As much as I'd like to get excited, I just can't.

I pre-ordered Rome 2 and was very disappointed. It's taken a year and 15 patches just to get to where I enjoy the game.

Any idea on how much this will cost?

[Hooahguy]

They said it will be less than Rome 2, and about the same amount Napoleon and FOTS cost on release.

[Slaists]

Cautiously excited here as well. Optimistic though...

Pre-order? Nah... There WILL be bugs... trust me :)

[The Stranger]

first thoughts are "rofl"

then comes alot of thoughts i should better not post =_=

[The Outsider]

The first thing that comes to my mind is that why is this a stand alone? The answer is simple really, they don't want to retrofit the "new" features into Rome 2, so that they can sell this expansion as a full fledged game. This annoys me to no end. What did they say in the beginning? Seasons cannot be implemented to the game, than comes the ceaser in gaul dlc and boom, seasons are in, they say that multiple turns are a no no than hanibal at the gates dlc, boom they are in. They say that family tree is not needed than Attila comes and it's suddenly possible

Seriously what is wrong with this company? How deep are they going to dig their grave? Don't they know that once you loose the support of your fan base the casual gamer kids are not going to save you from bankruptcy? Instead of improving what they built up to medieval 2 they went ahead and ruined everything. Shogun 2 gave a new hope but now that is long gone as well. I am really sorry for the series, what a waste..

[Hooahguy]

Well we certainly have a bunch of optimists here, don't we!

:beam:

[Vuk]

It is hard to spend your money based on 'optimism' when you are short on cash. Most people are going through tough times now, and that makes people less willing to gamble. We would rather put our money on something that gives us a reason for confidence than on something that experience and our better instinct tell us will suck. If CA doesn't want to erode its entire fanbase out from under it, it had better start showing some real quality and give us a reason to come back and give them our money.

[Hooahguy]

Thats fair, nobody is demanding that you preorder.



The first thing that comes to my mind is that why is this a stand alone? The answer is simple really, they don't want to retrofit the "new" features into Rome 2, so that they can sell this expansion as a full fledged game. This annoys me to no end. What did they say in the beginning? Seasons cannot be implemented to the game, than comes the ceaser in gaul dlc and boom, seasons are in, they say that multiple turns are a no no than hanibal at the gates dlc, boom they are in. They say that family tree is not needed than Attila comes and it's suddenly possible



Actually I think the stand-alone option is much better than an expansion. This way you arent forcing those who dont have Rome 2 to spend the extra money to get Rome 2, then get Attila and spend even more money. They have said it will be priced similar to FOTS and Napoleon so it wont be priced as a full game like Rome or Shogun 2. Stand alone expansions are much more consumer friendly than an expansion you need the base game for.


And to set the record straight, they never said that they couldnt do multiple turns per year, they said they didnt want to in order to keep the game at 300 turns. At least to my knowledge, there could be some random dev who said that which I have not seen. You have a point about the seasons, I dont know what happened so Im not going to comment about what went on or not. Maybe they overestimated how much stress it would put on systems, and when they saw a modder do it they decided it was possible? For the family tree they said they didnt know everyone wanted it so much. Apparently it was never really a part of the game that everyone said they desperately wanted so they left it out for some reason. When there was a public outcry over it, they put it in the next game. Whether or not it can be ported back into Rome 2 is yet to be seen, Im going to withhold judgement until the game comes out and the player reviews come in. It wouldnt be fair to pass judgement until release.

[AntiDamascus]

I wonder if this will be priced as a full game. I may or may not preorder depending on what the stuff is and cost. I'm still playing Rome 2 so I can wait until it's on sale later to get it.

[Hooahguy]

I wonder if this will be priced as a full game. I may or may not preorder depending on what the stuff is and cost. I'm still playing Rome 2 so I can wait until it's on sale later to get it.
They said it will be priced like Napoleon and FOTS, so no, not as a full game.

[dge1]

Napoleon was a nice game to play but I prefer Empire, still playing it now and but not Napoleon. I am sure Attila will be a good game, and I'll probably buy it. I just hope it has enough random variability to play through more than a couple of times.

[edyzmedieval]

Napoleon excelled on the battle side, making it more of a "Total War" rather than an empire-building game that was Empire. So in this perspective, I'm definitely looking forward to Attila. :yes:

[Hooahguy]

New Attila dev blog! (http://blogs.sega.com/totalwar/2014/10/15/total-war-attila-developer-blog-1/)

Will post comments on it later.

[Neric]

I like the overall darker mood of the graphics. If that can be transferred into the gameplay, Attila might be distinctive enough from Rome 2 to be more than just Rome 2 with missed features, e.g. some sort of family tree.

It will be interesting so see, how Attila hinself is going to be implemented. Could be as a new faction or some lategame overpowered steamroller who doesn't care about building, destroys everything in its way and cannot be stopped; at least in the first stages of the invasion.
I would favour the last, but this tends in the direction of "losing can be fun" - not a popular concept for marketing.

[The Stranger]

well he was stopped eventually historically. so i dont know why u have to lose per se. but diplomacy and intrigue played a big part in it as well... which has never really been the strong point of tw series.

[Neric]

Lose per se just when your standing right in the door as Attila & friends are knocking it down. Maybe CA manages to give diplomatic options, but the first wave should be devastating if you try to oppose the invaders; at least without allies. I you live to do something another day by diplomacy or having enough provinces out of harms, way the late game could be kind of a reconquista of the lost and scorched provinces.
Still there's the problem of getting history and gameplay along, without loosing too much of either one :shrug:

[Hooahguy]

So theres a livestream of Attila going on right now on the CA twitch site (link (http://www.twitch.tv/totalwarofficial)) and they arent showing many new things but the music is rather good now! Even makes use of the infamous Mongolian throat singing.

[Hooahguy]

So here are some of the details provided in the dev livestream, courtesy of Reddit:


Main campaign details - All religions have their own buffs and benefits.
9 different religions in the game.
- Building Browser!
- Diseases can spread trough trade routes, armies and more and can cause diplomatic penalties.
- Constantinople will be a unique settlement and big. Very big.
- Minor settlements CAN have walls in ATTILA!
- There will be civil wars in ATTILA but they will work out different as Rome II's wars.
- More dillema’s, events and more.
- There will be cultural-specific music themes.
- There will be new army stances. Forced march now gives fatigue penalties when attacked.
Characters
- An assigned governor will grant an edict and bonusses and will be represented on the battle map when his city gets attacked.
- You can marry people from other factions to get them in your family tree.
- Different characters will bring different personalities in diplomacy. Because of this diplomatic relations will be more dynamic.

Agents
- More agent actions will unlock when you level up an agent!
- Results of agent actions will be displayed as 2D animations.
Attila - ATTILA will always attack other nations. This cannot be avoided.
- Attila can be killed or wounded

Units and Factions
- Sassanids, Saxons playable, more playable factions will be revealed overtime.
- A lot more specialized ships. Boarding, ranged combat, ramming.
- There are male and female units in Total War ATTILA.
- Some Immortals and Cataphracts units will be in the game.

[fallen851]

Well we certainly have a bunch of optimists here, don't we!

:beam:

CA inspires man. CA inspires.


It wouldnt be fair to pass judgement until release.

Did you really not learn the lesson regarding Rome 2?

It must be very difficult for you to buy a decent car... "well the deal looks terrible for me, but the car might go for a million miles, and isn't fair to pass judgement until I've bought the car."

It is a skill to be able to predict things with any kind of decent degree of accuracy. It has been a gift of mine. And the results always speak for themselves. If you can't do it, at least look at the record of those who can, and trust them, not the guy who is asking for your money.

That said, Attila looks better than Rome 2, but CA burned a lot of bridges.

[Hooahguy]

Did you really not learn the lesson regarding Rome 2?

It must be very difficult for you to buy a decent car... "well the deal looks terrible for me, but the car might go for a million miles, and isn't fair to pass judgement until I've bought the car."

It is a skill to be able to predict things with any kind of decent degree of accuracy. It has been a gift of mine. And the results always speak for themselves. If you can't do it, at least look at the record of those who can, and trust them, not the guy who is asking for your money.

That said, Attila looks better than Rome 2, but CA burned a lot of bridges.

Haha wow, do you even understand what you just said? Rather cocky, aren't you? We should not rave about the game before it has earned It, and nobody has so far. Of course I learned my lessons. I probably will not be pre-ordering this one.

But I find it hilarious that you think the idea that we should hold off until reviews come in to pass judgment is a bad thing. No, I don't buy a car just because how far it can go, I read reviews and do research. As I advocate doing with the new game as well. No I am not advocating to preorder, do research before you buy. But at the same time, I do not think it is fair to pass judgement before the game is out. Especially since, in my opinion, CA have redeemed themselves for their mistakes. But then again, that is my opinion.

And yet here you are, all high and mighty claiming that since you have great judgement and such, which by the way sounds really conceited, we can accurately judge a product before we even know when it will be released.

And if you want to be all negative, be my guest, be all negative. I might disagree with it but that is your right. But I choose to have a positive outlook, and belittling me for that opinion will not change it.

[easytarget]

I think this is the point where someone steps in to interject that we're only talking about games here.

Be they good, bad, or somewhere in between, in the scheme of things they're completely irrelevant to what really matters in life.

Hang around long enough and you'll eventually come to discover few things are worth getting all that worked up about. Or alternatively you'll spend your golden years standing on the front lawn in Bermuda shorts, long black socks pulled up nice and high attempting to hose down the neighbor's kids cause they won't stay off your lawn, IOTW, the source of endless amusement to everyone around you (other than yourself). :laugh4:

[fallen851]

And yet here you are, all high and mighty claiming that since you have great judgement and such, which by the way sounds really conceited, we can accurately judge a product before we even know when it will be released.


Damn right man. You become the champion in your mind before it happens in real life. Not every one who has that mind set is a champion, but not a single person who doesn't believe it, is a champion.

Anyway, enough about how great I am, the fact is many people were able to see that RTW2 was going to be train wreck prior to the release and the "reviews." Therefore, we can say that it isn't a bad idea to pass judgement before the reviews come out, mostly because the reviews are useless.

And what did the reviews tell us? Overwhelming positive the day of the release, because they didn't actually play the game! And then the game took a nose dive from reviews who didn't play the game, and Meta critic score began to suffer, and suffer. It was high 80's from reviewers on day of release, it is 76 now.

You know how you become the best? You admit when you are wrong, and fix the faults. One fault I've fixed, is caring what random people think about me.


I think this is the point where someone steps in to interject that we're only talking about games here.

Hang around long enough and you'll eventually come to discover few things are worth getting all that worked up about.

Sure, you can look at life that way. But I've wasted enough of my days, too many in fact. When I do something, I give 100%, or I don't even try. And my life is a lot better for it.

I'm actually not an intense person at all, I'm very laid back and calm. But if you put me in a competition, I play to win, no holds barred. And I've won some pretty important legal battles in my life, fought some big companies, and won. And I'm proud of that. And I know a lot of people who couldn't do that, and won't do it. They avoid conflict. And almost everyone told me to settle, said I would lose, to give up, asked me if it was worth it... and it was.

And that's why people get sour deals in life, because people don't fight for what they deserve. It's about being assertive. Does it look aggressive? Only to the passive. We all choose how we live our lives, but I don't hang my head in shame. So yes, I am high and mighty, because I choose to be.

People have a right to be angry about RTW2.

[ReluctantSamurai]

People have a right to be angry about RTW2.

Yes, they did. But the surest, and most powerful way to vent that anger is to not purchase any further TW games.

et has the gist of it...there are far more important things in life besides games. Which is why I don't understand hard-core sports fans getting worked up about their team, either:shrug: Sports isn't real and neither are video games:creep:

[fallen851]

Yes, they did. But the surest, and most powerful way to vent that anger is to not purchase any further TW games.

et has the gist of it...there are far more important things in life besides games. Which is why I don't understand hard-core sports fans getting worked up about their team, either:shrug: Sports isn't real and neither are video games:creep:

You underestimate the therapeutic value of entertainment. Sports and video games aren't "real" you are correct. But neither is the orchestra or reading books, they are equally a waste of time. Also wasteful is fine cooking, watching a great movie, or playful flirting with the fairer sex.

But enjoying life is pretty important. Actually, it probably the most important thing.

And having money to do so is really important too. This game isn't free.

In the end, you're basically telling someone what they care about doesn't matter, and that isn't a nice thing to do. You're also excusing poor performance by saying "it doesn't matter, therefore it is okay that isn't good." And that seems to be exactly what the CA team did, put no effort in RTW2 because it didn't matter. Volound's video makes that argument quite clearly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA6BOjqjfvI

So, it makes perfect sense that you guys defend the game. It was made by people just like you, who believe video games don't matter much, therefore if they don't live up to potential, it isn't a big deal.

But I give 100% in everything I do, and I would have never put my name on RTW2. I also believe the surest most powerful way to express my anger, is to write it, so others can see it. That way they be can emboldened, and won't let people (read: you) dissuade them from expressing their opinions openly and not be suppressed.

Because it does matter.

[ReluctantSamurai]

In the end, you're basically telling someone what they care about doesn't matter, and that isn't a nice thing to do.

Actually, that's not what I'm saying at all. There's a difference between not being real, and not mattering. Obviously, sports and gaming both "matter"...they're just not "real".


You're also excusing poor performance by saying "it doesn't matter, therefore it is okay that isn't good."

Never said that poor quality doesn't matter, either. What I did say is that as a consumer, the strongest message you can send is to not buy products you are unhappy with...and I have not not bought a CA game, except STW2, since MTW2. So if all those who are dissatisfied with the state of TW games did as I have, which message would have the greatest impact...silent rejection, or vociferous bitching at a gaming forum?


So, it makes perfect sense that you guys defend the game. It was made by people just like you, who believe video games don't matter much, therefore if they don't live up to potential, it isn't a big deal.

Not defending the game, either. And video games don't matter much...if I had back every minute I've spent sitting in front of a computer playing video games, I'd probably have put that time into far more productive activities that would have impacted my life in better ways. So yeah...if a game stinks, it's no big deal to me. I simply speak with far more thunder than whining about it...I DON'T BUY THE GAME!


But I give 100% in everything I do, and I would have never put my name on RTW2. I also believe the surest most powerful way to express my anger, is to write it, so others can see it. That way they be can emboldened, and won't let people (read: you) dissuade them from expressing their opinions openly and not be suppressed.

Interesting that you can completely misread what I've said...three times...and then make a veiled judgement on my character that somehow because I don't write volumes about how unhappy I am with a product, that I don't give 100% in everything that I do:inquisitive: Hey...bitch all you want, that's your perogative. I've already given CA the biggest message a person can send:

I DON'T BUY THEIR GAMES ANYMORE.

[easytarget]

Fallen,

I'll leave you be at this point, you're a total stranger to me and not my burden.

[edyzmedieval]

http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_ATTILA_factions

Factions are the "standard" so far, but I'm really looking forward to play with the ERE. :book:

[Hooahguy]

Im interested to see how they will implement the way that the Vandals and Visigoths will be put on the map. According to their faction pages, it seems like they dont have any solid territories, so I think they perhaps start as a horde?

[edyzmedieval]

If I recall correctly, it used to be the same in Barbarian Invasion. But even so, they were repelled quite easily, the big battles were between the Sassanids and the ERE.

[KLAssurbanipal]

http://wiki.totalwar.com/images/2/26/TWA_Faction_Saxons.png

Please delete those pants with horizontal stripes. Those aren't historical. You used these pants for Celts in RTW2, too. Celtic warriors wore pants with vertical stripes. ;)


I think that Sutton Hoo helmet is correctly, but I suggest to use them for officer's helmets. I'm afraid that will be situation from RTW2 - no specific helmets for officers, so they will look like soldiers. There are some other helmets to making Saxon infantry specific and different than other barbarian factions.

There are examples Sutton Hoo helmet for officer and another 2 Vendel helemts for guards. I hope those 2 helmets will be in game, too. It will be more variety and difference than other barbarian factions.

Plate by Angus McBride.

http://deadliestblogpage.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/1-anglo-saxon-warriors.jpg

Sources and reconstructions of those helmets:

1.

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/schools/primaryhistory/images/worldhistory/sutton_hoo_helmet/ship_burial_helmet.jpg

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/schools/primaryhistory/images/worldhistory/sutton_hoo_helmet/replica_helmet.jpg

2.

http://www.armourer.eu/files/vendel-14-helmet-sweden%5B3%5D.jpg

https://33.media.tumblr.com/13a3c62f62c80b9c65256cbb9499576a/tumblr_mylnsb6lwi1r3080to1_500.jpg

3.

http://www.werner-forman-archive.com/Image119.jpg

https://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/42/6b/3b/426b3b3d84d259becf94ba39b15dad2f.jpg

[KLAssurbanipal]

There is a good lesson of history. ;)

Ostrogoths - fight in Macedonian phalangites style (sarissa, small shield, phalanx formation),

Franks - use cataphracts (lamellar cuirass, greaves, kontos, horse armor),

Saxons - most of soldiers look like kings (use Sutton Hoo helmets - it will better to add them for officers/generals to make them specific and different than standard soldiers. The same problem is in R2 - generals look like soldiers - only Briton generals and some Roman have specific).

All barbarian factions (except Saxons - they are specific with Sutton Hoo and Vendels) use the same only 3 style of helmets so they are very similar (with 3 different cheekplates so there are 9 types of helmets). They use only 2 types of tunics.
Sassanids have those German/Roman cheekplates, too.

Alans, Franks, Ostrogoths and Visigoths - standard soldiers have the same helmets as Roman emperor.


http://wiki.totalwar.com/images/e/ee/TWA_Faction_Franks.png

http://wiki.totalwar.com/images/3/3c/TWA_Faction_Ostrogoths2.png

[Furunculus]

agreed with the OP.

R2 on arrival was disappointing. R2 now is genuinely good, and Attila only looks to improve this.

[Crandar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BXrXJSDCQ6Y

[edyzmedieval]

Speaking of Sassanids... :bounce:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXrXJSDCQ6Y

[Sp4]

From the trailer, it really looks like a retextured version of Rome 2.

[The Outsider]

From the trailer, it really looks like a retextured version of Rome 2.

That's exactly what it is mate. And that makes the fact that they are selling this as a new game to avoid retrofitting Rome2 even more ddisgusting. Why does the game industry act in this way? Did making profits blinded them so bad? Why do they strip features that makes the fans love the series? This same thing happened with command and conquer 4 and the outcome is obvious. They should have a look at blizzard. After almost 15 years, Starcraft 2 is essentially the same with the original and people love it for that.

[edyzmedieval]

It's classified as a stand alone, but everyone knows it's an extended expansion pack for R2TW. Napoleon was the same, FOTS was the same.

Nothing new over here, so as long as they stick to the good stuff and implement more features, Attila should be good actually.

[KLAssurbanipal]

In Rome 2 generals and officers look like standard soldiers. They wear the same helmets, armors, clothes as normal units. Only a few Roman helmets and horned Briton helmets distinguished generals of standard soldiers. Other factions, that is - Hellenistics, Gauls, Germans, Iberians, Carthaginians, eastern, steppe haveare generals who look like normal units. They wear helmets and armor the same as hoplites, cataphracts, oathsworn etc.

I noticed that Attila has the same mistake. Roman generals look like standard infantry / cavalry. They wear helmets, which were the standard Roman equipment used by infantry, and Germanic units.

There are examples:



Blue helmets - use by Roman infantry and generals
Green helmets - use by Germanic units and Roman generals


http://pics.tinypic.pl/i/00608/bczf0d2mdk71.png

Roman emperor and Alan, Ostrogoth soldiers have the same helmets (green one from portraits):

http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00608/fymlgfw0df2i.png
http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00608/p702g6nh8fko.png
http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00608/1ljsn36vuwe7.png

The blue ones (3 styles of one type) used by standard infantry:

http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00608/g8mosl3nsup9.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXrXJSDCQ6Y&list=UUugJq15BiB-c1NDYPHiznWQ




However, in reality the Roman generals and officers had other, richer helmets than standard soldiers.
There are examples of 2 types helmets which could be good inspiration to making generals helmets.

The 1st one:



http://bottega.avalonceltic.com/rep_immagini/prod/ah6048.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Casque_orn%C3%A9_4%C3%A8me_si%C3%A8cle_Mus%C3%A9e_Novi_Sad_Colis%C3%A9e_Rome_Italie.jpg

http://cdn.obsidianportal.com/assets/182586/Bejeweled_helm.jpg



The 2nd one:



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/WLANL_-_koopmanrob_-_Helm.jpg

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=82490&d=1244308275

http://www.artmajeur.com/files/nieczar/images/artworks/650x650/6982810_deurne-iv.jpg




There are excellent late Roman generals' helmets by tallented modder Razor.




http://pics.tinypic.pl/i/00608/qlb1moy05aco.jpg

http://pics.tinypic.pl/i/00608/2cidgw6bhae5.jpg




I think I am not only one who want to see specific looking generals. I hope it will be more difference between generals and soldiers than Rome 2. ;)

[KLAssurbanipal]

I saw that in Attila screens and trailers are only few types of Roman, German and Sassanian helmets. CA choose most of similar style - conical helmets. I suggest to make this one - the most specific Sassanian helmet.
It is based on historical source- Sassanian relief.

http://files.tinypic.pl/i/00609/7r57fs7ss2wm.png

http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00609/29i7pb5woovv.jpg

http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00598/d53e8rw39nzx.jpeg


and there are some inspiration for more helmets of that one style used in Attila:

http://www.livius.org/a/1/iran/sasanian_helmet_rgzm.JPG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Sassanid_army_helmet_by_Nickmard_Khoey.jpg

http://i1.wp.com/www.kavehfarrokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/48-Sassanina-Spangenhelm-Helmet-Nineveh1.jpg

http://cdn.ipernity.com/134/61/23/24666123.cd3973ef.640.jpg

https://31.media.tumblr.com/024b58547d408decacc9a4531e1c5f42/tumblr_mhp8ctt5lK1s4djrlo1_500.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/50/dd/4b/50dd4b6929c67e20af985c68fab8545a.jpg


Remember about a mistatke - delete Roman cheekplates from Sassanian helmets. Sassanids didn't use cheekplates. Please, fix it, too.