Archers in Skirmish mode

[Oldariel]

I often have a problem with archers put in the front line, set to fire at will and in skirmish mode. I thought they were supposed to fire at the advancing enemy (not even cavalry, but footmen) and retreat behind the ranks of my spear whne the enemy draws too close, so they don't get involved in melee combat. But my archers ussualy wait too long and get caught by the enemy. I often have to retreat them myself (order them to run back), but with this approach I must keep an eye on all of them all the time and I'm not always right on time with the retreat. What frustrates me most is that the opponents (that is AI) archer almost always retreat at the right moment, so I don't catch them. Am I doing something wrong?

[Hosakawa Tito]

What enemy units are catching them? Cav units move pretty fast. Sometimes my archers get confused on where to retreat to if threatened on both flanks. Try placing them behind your spears to start with. I usually do this myself now, and I put them on hold formation and position. I want them to stand fast and keep firing, if a few get killed I don't mind, they are pretty cheap to replace.

[Azrael]

Hey Oldariel,

I suggest two things. Group them, so you have a bit more control over them in case you need to shift them in a hurry.

Also, pay attention to what's advancing. Cavalry will outrun them, and possibly some of the fleet footed Arab troops might catch them also.

As you see the enemy advance, click the group and tell them to focus on the nearest line of advancing enemy. This should cause them to back up sooner, rather than later.

Also, don't be a dingbat like me, and tell your archers to skirmish with anyone while their backs are turned (i.e. they are already backing up). This causes them to stop in their tracks and turn around and usually get nailed.

Hope some of that's useful.

Azrael

[Magyar Khan]

True Olda, archers like horsearchers retreat to late. They could/should retreat at just below their maximum range, maybe depending on teh incoming enemies speed.

so u dont do something wrong, u must increase your micromanaging skills and retreat them yourself.

[Lord Romulous]

one thing i also dislike is how units such as jinnetes
will often not release their javelins but contantly repostion themselves as the traget unit moves.

i think the movement ai should be smart enough to not repostion the unit until they have atleast released their missiles. only time they should repostion with out releasing their missiles is if they are in danger of being in melle with an enemy or player repostions them manualy.

i havent had much experience with other mounted missiles on skirmish but i imagine they all suffer from similar problems

[Hakonarson]

Sometimes archers don't realise they are being atacked It's true - for example if the enemy has chosen to attack your spearmen behind the archers then the archers won't run away.

Or at least that's what it seems to be to me

If I have archers in front of melee units then I always keep a close eye on them - often as not these days my archers are behind the melee units to avoid just this problem.

[pdoan8]

Pre-patch, I use my archers infront of my spears.

Post-patch, I always put my archers behind spears in hold formation and hold position. AI do quite well in charging the weak spot and using their cav after the patch.

The javellin units: they won't do any good if you put them in skirmish because they will retreat as soon as they or the enemy are in range. I use them in engage at will mode. Also, those short range missiles need more care than the longer range ones.

[Oldariel]

Thanks for all the info. I have a question about putting my archers behind my spearmen though. If my archers have the same range as the enemy archers and I am not on a hill, he will advance with his archers first and shoot at my spearman. But my archers will be too far back to shoot back. So how do I get rid of his archers? Cavalry?

[HopAlongBunny]

A cautionary tale:

Attacking the Byzantines; the only cavalry on AI team is one Kata that hides the entire fight.

AI rushes guards and byz inf at my line; they begin running right from hitting "begin" but they are a long way off. They crush my arbies and Genoese sailors (set to skirmish, fire at will) Neither of the byz units are what you call fast

I am now cowering behind the lines with all my missle troops http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[A.Saturnus]

The readjusting is ecspecially annoying with handgunners. It happened in one of my battles that a unit of them gave just one shot although they were close to the fight and not attacked themselves all the time. Even when they are in hold formation, they do not fire often. It would be better if they wouldn`t have to reload again after readjusting.

[BatkoMahno]

The archer unit skirmishes only against the troop they are shooting at if you ordered them. So if that troop is standing without moving your archers are standing still too even if there are hords of others attacking them in flanks and ahead, you still need to micromanage archers all the time. If you didn't ordered them to shoot at anyone then they shoot at closest attacking troop and therefor they will skirmish as soon the closest troop is too close (hm is anyone folowing this?)
I always used archers behind (yaris) or spearmen troops or any other trooptype so you win the precios time when you don't need to micromanage.
Attack with Jinetes with no skirmish. Let them come as close as standing becide and wait untill they start to shoot(it takes time) as soon as you see the enemy move then you might press the skirmish button it you don't want them to engage the enemy ( hm this is the so called micromanagment maybe).
well i will stop here can write even more... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Negative]

Some tips:
If the enemy has missle troops make sure you get on higher ground. Have shield troops be your front line with your missle troops behind them. The enemy archers will be shooting uphill at a shield wall. Your losses should be minimal compared to the enemy. You can either focus your fire on the ememy archers or non-shield troops. If you are severly out-gunned you will have to go on the offence to clear out their missle units. Also always keep your missle units on hold ground/hold formation unless they are in the open exposed to attack. Like the others have said they will only skirmish from the unit they are shooting at, and they always seem to go the wrong way anyway.
That's it. I hope it helps http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[HopAlongBunny]

Hmmm.

Thanks BatkoMahno http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I'll bet thats what happened...just because I don't remember ordering them to shoot at a unit doesn't mean I didn't.

(tries to sort out negatives to see if a coherent thing is said above-gives up and goes for a nap)

[Negative]

Sorry if you don't understand. Don't know how else to say it. Oh well, no good deed goes un-punished http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Al Qasim Hussein]

Hakonarson

I think you are correct. Sometimes units don't know they are being attacked. If you have any unit (pre-patch...) charge two or more units of enemy archers, but have only actually ORDERED them to charge one unit, the other unit of archers will sit there and get killed by your charging madmen. Very curious tactics...

[Dionysus9]

Quote[/b] (Oldariel @ Nov. 22 2002,04:01)]Thanks for all the info. I have a question about putting my archers behind my spearmen though. If my archers have the same range as the enemy archers and I am not on a hill, he will advance with his archers first and shoot at my spearman. But my archers will be too far back to shoot back. So how do I get rid of his archers? Cavalry?
This is correct and precisely why I always leave my archers in front of my spears. The Wolf is right--micromanagement is the key. If you are a bad micromanager put your archers RIGHT in front of your spears (very close to them). You will lose some spears to enemy fire, but not as bad as spears in front of archers. Archers are expendable because eventually they run out of ammo and arent as useful. Spears need to stay around for the entire fight.

It is also a problem that the archers don't perceive a threat when they themselves are not the target of the charge. This would be nice for the developers to fix. It's kinda bogus for the archers to look at the Cav barreling down on them and say-- "oh, no prob, those lancers are going after the spears behind me." So the archers dont skirmish, they get slammed hard, they rout, and the spears start to wonder if its not a good time to shit their pants and run.