my army keeps routing... why?

[gothicform]

well i keep trying to take toulouse from the aragonese, im playing as the italians and every battle my army routs. there were 189 aragonese and 770 of my mine. i had more chivalric sgts alone than the enemy had all units. anyway i advance my lines towards enemy positions and after taking four casualties my chivalric sgts ALL rout, in this case 200 chivalric sgts were attacking 40 enemy ones. this happens every single battle, one unit routs then they all do, how am i supposed to win a battle when this keeps happening.
in one battle i "lost" thanks to routing soldiers id killed 120 of the enemy and lost 40 of my own men. again my soldiers started routing when a bunch of halbediers lost a grand total of three men out of 60.
this isnt fun, its just stupid. i enter a battle with overwhelming numbers and they all get scared off. it has nothing to do with the dread of the opposing commander either who is on 2 compared to my commanders 4. i even replaced the general with another 4 star general which makes him the same as the opposing commander and still they routed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif

[war_blah]

check ur general's vice&dice, he must have some really bad one like "good runner" or "coward" which give negative morale bonus.

Press F1 at begining of battle to see what's your troop's morale

[solypsist]

you also mention Helberdiers which means you're probably in the later part of the game. The enemy might have been using fear-inducing weapons (guns, artillery) which you might not have noticed.

[gothicform]

my soldiers rout even if i change the general which i have done, and no the enemy were not using cannons, i was though.

[pdoan8]

Also, check V&V of each unit leader in the army. The V&V of subordinate general in the army will effect his own unit. Also, remember that a routing elite unit may cause chain effect and make all others rout for no reason.

[Lord Romulous]

as others have said it has got to do with the moral of your forces. check f1 as the battle begins

i wouldn't be surprised to see all your troops at - 6 or -7 morale. it is quite easy for this to happen if you pick up a few nasy vices (which is easy to do)

the solutions include using a general without bad vices, or if u have no good generals then just use ordinary troops with no general. one of the ordinary units will take upon the role of general.

other causes (probably in combination with bad moral) include enemy cavarly on your flank. having one unit all bye itself with nearby multiple units of the enemy. as others have mentioned having your troops under fire from artillary or in extreme cases missiles.

btw dread has no effect on the battlefield. so even if you were against a 8 dread enemy general it would not make a difference towhether your units will rout.

a good elementary battle strat is use this formation.
***SSSSSS***
MA********MA
CAV*******CAV
*******GEN*******
S = spear units (on hold formation)
MA = men at arms or other shock troop
CAV = Cavarly
GEN = General.

have the spears hold a line while tying up the majority of enemy forces, use your MA to attack the flanks and to plug any holes in your line. the CAV can be used for rear and flank attacks. if you have missile units u can have them immediatly in front of your spears firing at the enemy and then witdraw them behind the spears when the enemy approachs. if you have archers the safe way to play is just to leave the archers in a parallel line with your men at arms. and have them fire over the top of your spears.

dont engauge your general with enemy unless you u desperate as getting a general killed or captured can often cause the whole army to rout.

Its important to avoid ur units being engaged in the flank. if this happens esp by cavalry the unit can easily rout, which can in turn casue a chain rout of your entire army. if one of your units gets hit in the flank, immediatly hit the unit that is flanking u with a another unit in flanks or rear.

U are probably aware of this basic stuff. but just in case you arn't http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[A.Saturnus]

Yeah, vices like "coward" can make a general useless even if he has some stars.
Were your units under fire from archers or crossbows? That gives a morale damage too. Use high some high morale units in every army but don`t waste them; if they run, all will run. BTW, why do you use Chiv-Sgts? Italian light inf is the same but has better morale.

[Daevyll]

Check the enemy general's Dread rating.

If it's very high, especially combined with low morale on your own part, your troops can rout very easily.

The solution for that particular problem would be to
a) kill the enemy general and hope his replacement is less scary
b) put a really good general of your own in charge of your army, with positive morale modifiers.
c) bribe the enemy army; 170 men shouldnt cost too much.

[gothicform]

my men werent under fire, the units that started routing were actually fresh and hadnt fought before. i managed to defeat them in the end, cost me 450men in a single battle because my troops kept running off. ive played the game before and never had problems like this. i thought maybe it was a quirk.
i already use formation with infantry at the front although i tend to use cavalry as skirmishers.

[solypsist]

as stated before, dread has no effect on the battlefield; it is a campaign map attribute. But the enemy general(s) may have had some V&Vs that imposed a morale penalty on your troops.

[Dionysus9]

Gothic,

I think the best thing to do is to play online with some experience Multiplayer patrons. I'm confident they can show you what you are doing wrong-- It's got to be something you are doing, because many others who play the SP game are not having the same problem.

It sounds stupid for me to ask (and please do not take offense), but are you sure your units are facing the proper direction? I played STW for several weeks before I realized I had to face the enemy. Lol.

[hoom]

Did you check your generals?
If they have bad vices, they can result in terrible morale like various ppl have already said.
Also, having just lost a battle, troops get bad morale for the next turn or two.
Were you attacking uphill? My recollection is that there are some Toulouse maps with the defenders having a huge hight advantage. Height advantage = morale disadvantage for you.

Added up together, in extreme cases this can make a strong army rout just from the enemy starting to run at you.
I have seen it from trying to kill Heirs.


Just to be sure, do you actually have problems with other battles, or just this one? Sounds like just this one to me, hence MP would be of limited aid.

[Dijeeh]

The only times my armies have routed is when they have taken severe losses.

Even at losing 70% of their unit my troops generly keep fighting on until 20% or less remains before they rout.

I don't pay much attention to vices and stuff of my commanders either, Maybe its just my goodluck that i have had decent morale the whole time?

[gothicform]

ive never had routing problems except with the italians (ive finished the game as the english and byzantiums so far), i thought it was an attribute of theirs like in world war 2 or something http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
my experience is the terrain doesnt have anything to do with it, whether they are marching uphill or on flat ground they seem to route. interestingly though once they won that battle and took the territory they stopped routing - it was only there.
and yes, the soldiers were facing the right direction unless they were marching backwards towards the enemy.

[hoom]

I believe I have had trouble with Toulouse vs Aragon too but with me being Germans.
I figured it was more to do with fighting uphill with outnumbered, inferior troops in early period...