Spank your child and create a criminal

[HoreTore]

Countries who have banned spanking have seen a reduction in crime far greater than those who have not. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/17/outlawing-spanking_n_3606886.html)

If you were spanked and turned out great, it was in spite of it, not because of it.

[Fragony]

Maybe we just got richer. I deserved every slap I got, it's downright painful to see parents negotiating with kicking and screaming kids, I'd slap them. Enough already.

[Rhyfelwyr]

That was a terrible and pointless article. It does nothing to control for the countless other factors that would influence the figures it talks about. Take this for example:

"There are regions of this country (particularly the Evangelical south) where the practice of corporal punishment is culturally more accepted. Those are the same places where rates of crime, gun ownership and incarceration are highest, the Economist notes."

I think that these problems are more likely due to higher levels of poverty, unemployment, racial segregation etc than they are too much spanking.

[Husar]

Pfeiffer is a known junk scientist who hates violent computer games because he wasn't spanked enough as a kid.
I got spanked as a kid and I am a horrible person today.

[Crandar]

I agree with Rhyfelwyr. I would also recommend everybody to watch After Lucia. After watching, I considered spanking to be a too lenient punishment, for certain pupils.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Spanking only works on the small ones who do not have higher brain functions. Essentially you train them the same way you train a puppy -- behaviorism using rewards and punishments.

As your child develops -- which requires interacting with them to HELP them develop -- the need for simple physical punishment fades in favor of more effective suasory techniques.

[Greyblades]

Personally I think a good parent should have enough moves in their arsenal (so to speak) that physical discipline really shouldnt be needed, unless they found thier kid pulling a pychopath warning sign like strangling a cat.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Countries who have banned spanking have seen a reduction in crime far greater than those who have not. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/17/outlawing-spanking_n_3606886.html)

If you were spanked and turned out great, it was in spite of it, not because of it.

Maybe the children are being spanked less due to being better behaved, due to the removal of lead from petrol?

Eh?

[Strike For The South]

Was lead really that big of deal? I always pause when I see someone bring it up. Same way with the whole "women starting having more abortions, so crime went down".

[Kadagar_AV]

But it's still OK to spank your GF, aight?

[Veho Nex]

Maybe we just got richer. I deserved every slap I got, it's downright painful to see parents negotiating with kicking and screaming kids, I'd slap them. Enough already.

what he said. I deserved every whoopin i got as a brat. I turned out as a better person because of it, not in spite of it.

[Gilrandir]

That was a terrible and pointless article. It does nothing to control for the countless other factors that would influence the figures it talks about. Take this for example:

"There are regions of this country (particularly the Evangelical south) where the practice of corporal punishment is culturally more accepted. Those are the same places where rates of crime, gun ownership and incarceration are highest, the Economist notes."

I think that these problems are more likely due to higher levels of poverty, unemployment, racial segregation etc than they are too much spanking.
In Gorbachev's USSR an attempt was made to curb alcohol abuse. One of the measures taken was prohibiting to show movies where characters drink. They thought that people who see drinking on the screen are likely to drink in real life.
Evidently the same logics was applied in the case discussed.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

But it's still OK to spank your GF, aight?

Consenting adults, mi amigo, consenting adults....

[a completely inoffensive name]

Was lead really that big of deal? I always pause when I see someone bring it up. Same way with the whole "women starting having more abortions, so crime went down".

Lead really does a number on your body. Especially chronic exposure. Not to much of a stretch to calculate that even low concentrations in the air accumulate in your body, causing long term damage.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Was lead really that big of deal? I always pause when I see someone bring it up. Same way with the whole "women starting having more abortions, so crime went down".


High exposure to lead causes brain damage, especially in infants and children - the argument is plausible and the data tracks.

What more do you want, a note from Jesus Christ?

[Kadagar_AV]

High exposure to lead causes brain damage, especially in infants and children - the argument is plausible and the data tracks.

What more do you want, a note from Jesus Christ?

The Romans used lead in the water system, and it's been theorised that this contributed to the fall of Rome... IIRC it effect the brain, and might cause mental problems.

[rory_20_uk]

I have yet to spank my child and he is now 4. He knows right from wrong and rarely does wrong as he knows I will not be pleased and in some cases punish him, but I don't feel the need to hit him to prove a point.

I've seen American Dad, and I think that most moderate approaches are OK it is anything in extreme that is bad.

~:smoking:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Romans used lead in the water system, and it's been theorised that this contributed to the fall of Rome... IIRC it effect the brain, and might cause mental problems.

Low fertility too - lots of Roman Emperors had to adopt heirs.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The Romans used lead in the water system, and it's been theorised that this contributed to the fall of Rome... IIRC it effect the brain, and might cause mental problems.

Heavy metals poison category: lead, arsenic, radioactives. They all do neural damage and then begin to tear into other systems. Lead is the least virulent of the heavy metals, but all will accumulate over time and the damage increases.

[Noncommunist]

Low fertility too - lots of Roman Emperors had to adopt heirs.

But a lot of that was earlier on, during the apogee of the empire. And it may have helped the empire given that they could select worthy heirs rather than deal with entitled brats.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

But a lot of that was earlier on, during the apogee of the empire. And it may have helped the empire given that they could select worthy heirs rather than deal with entitled brats.

That's beside the point - Roman Emperors repeatedly FAILED to produce sons so they HAD to adopt.

Basically, their little legionaries weren't as effective as the full size ones.

[I of the Storm]

OT, I generally mistrust any data that makes a connection between certain educational practises with children and random sociological topics with adults. Too far fetched and the matter is too complex imo.

Anyway, I don't spank my daughter, I've got other means of correction/education at my disposal. No need for physical violence. That does NOT mean however, that I don't feel the urge to do so from time to time...

I do spank my gf when she asks me to though ;-)

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...I do spank my gf when she asks me to though ;-)

I believe the OP was focused on the correctional/educational, not the recreational.

[Brandy Blue]

Pfeiffer is a known junk scientist who hates violent computer games because he wasn't spanked enough as a kid.
I got spanked as a kid and I am a horrible person today.

:) lol

[a completely inoffensive name]

You know this thread got me thinking about the lead pipes that the Romans would use and part of me is now skeptical since I presume that Roman plumbing, like all modern plumbing builds up intense fouling that blocks the lead from leaching into the water.

However, they did add lead compounds specifically to sweeten wine, so perhaps the issue of lead poisoning was still prevalent, but we just need to rethink the vector.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

You know this thread got me thinking about the lead pipes that the Romans would use and part of me is now skeptical since I presume that Roman plumbing, like all modern plumbing builds up intense fouling that blocks the lead from leaching into the water.

However, they did add lead compounds specifically to sweeten wine, so perhaps the issue of lead poisoning was still prevalent, but we just need to rethink the vector.

Fair point. Common wine add-in along with resin etc.

Lead was also a common as an element in pewter and in pottery glazes. Both (at least once the glaze wears or cracks) leach lead into the food or beverage. Romans used it almost interchangeably with Tin. In fact, latin distinguishes the two only by the addition of an adjective.

Romans did know that at least some lead compounds were poisonous.

Interesting reading.