This is very odd....happened to anyone else??

[deutschlanduberalles]

In my current German campaign I have a former prince (now a general) leading one of my best armies, I refer to him as the "Fuhrer's Fire Brigade" rushing here and there to put out fires on the front, always attacking, always feared by the enemy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Anyway, he's got virtues that give him +5 (&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif to valor, and since he's a five star general he has 12 valor altogether. He's currently a single Royal Knight, his entourage having been slaughtered in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Poland, Venice, Flanders....you get the idea.

He also has the Famous Warrior virtue (+20 to health and +3 to morale) so naturally I use him in the thick of combat often. But lately I've been having this problem with my army under his command....

It seems whenever I send him off to flank and rout, like, an incoming group of peasants, or to take out enemy siege engines, it gives the rest of my army a morale penalty. The other night I lined up my forces against the French army across the field and sent my general off to cut up an enemy group of peasants that strayed a little. He crashed into them when the armies were just about out of bowshot range, killed 15 quickly and the peasants routed.

And my men started to waver?? What the hell? Of course, this means when the French routed one of my urban militia on my flanks, the rest of my army immediately turned tail and ran. Similar situations have happened in quite a few battles where there would seem to be no logical explanation for it. For the record, my general actually gives his army + to morale (3 I think) and all my units are valor 4-6...so...what's going on here?

[Spetulhu]

He might not be close enough to give them the full morale bonus if he`s off killing peasants?

[solypsist]

see what the valor is of your units without him (ie by themselves). If it's low, then Spet might be on to something....

[deutschlanduberalles]

That's a good point, my general *does* give my men like 3-4 more valor each than they have originally--but it still doesn't make sense to me, that before the main armies make contact, my army gets a morale penalty for my general fighting (and winning)....so....don't really know what to make of this one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[LadyAnn]

Your army is far from your general and the army thinks this general is a nuts or a fast runner (they didn't see the general and think the general abandoned him).

Unrelated note: you may want ot beef up the general's unit by merging him with an ex-prince. It is likely that when you have a new emperor, there is a new set of princes and the old set becomes simply royal bodyguard type.

I would say give your archers some glory by allowing them to route the peasants themselves. This allows you to have a better army when comes the time where the enemy will have knights (instead of peasants) and all you have got is a single +20 horse, but the rest are 0. I always give my units chances to upgrade the valour themselves by nursing a set of "elite" units.

Annie

[Puzz3D]

deutschlanduberalles

[Puzz3D]

deutschlanduberalles

[Puzz3D]

deutschlanduberalles,

What's going on is that the valor boost your units are getting from the general does not increase morale as does valor that is intrinsic to the unit. The result is that units with lots of valor flags flying can have low morale. The units should be getting the +3 morale bonus, and will retain that no matter where the general is located. You might want to check F1 at the beginning of the battle to see the actual morale of the units. Units with negative morale will not fight very long before they rout.

During the battle, your general gives +2 morale to units he is close to and +1 morale to units somewhat further away. He would also provide flank support to units in front of him which gives an additional morale boost, and project a proximity morale penaly on enemy units near him. Altogether, your units loose a fairly significant amount of morale when the general moves away from them.

[Kraxis]

See Puzz' post...

and you did talk about Urban Militia, a unit not know for its stellar Morale.

[deutschlanduberalles]

I did not know that the proximity of the general to his army affects morale; thanks a lot for the responses guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Grifman]

Quote[/b] (Puzz3D @ Nov. 25 2002,16:59)]deutschlanduberalles,

What's going on is that the valor boost your units are getting from the general does not increase morale as does valor that is intrinsic to the unit. The result is that units with lots of valor flags flying can have low morale. The units should be getting the +3 morale bonus, and will retain that no matter where the general is located. You might want to check F1 at the beginning of the battle to see the actual morale of the units. Units with negative morale will not fight very long before they rout.

During the battle, your general gives +2 morale to units he is close to and +1 morale to units somewhat further away. He would also provide flank support to units in front of him which gives an additional morale boost, and project a proximity morale penaly on enemy units near him. Altogether, your units loose a fairly significant amount of morale when the general moves away from them.
What? I thought one points of valor was always worth, +1 offense, +1 defense, and +2 morale. Are you saying that valor from generals to units does not work that way?

Grifman

[Alrowan]

lucky you... i found that my inbred family in my HRE campagin had quite a strong bloodline too... i guess you have to keep it in the family... an experiment that went right

[Kraxis]

Griff he is saying exactly that.

Command gives at rank 1, 1 attack or defence, at rank 2, 1 of each again and it is noted as 1 extra Valour. The ranks don't grant Valours but abilities, but these abilities can be interpreted as Valours. Clearly the engine counts Valours as 1 to attack and defence, not Morale.

You can try this yourself.
Send a good general with no Vices into battle with a vanilla unit (a unit without any upgrades, armour, weapons or morale), then check the Morale of that unit when battle is started. You will notice that the Valours gained from the general does not give any Morale.