If you conquer the papal states does that end the papacy? [Archive]

Brown Wolf

11-01-2002, 00:29

The pope is immortal, as soon as you kill him he comes back. Or as once happend to me, the pope comes back right around when Germany reapears in Italy and a virtual horde of horsemen force me out of Italy. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

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"always be thinking"
Computer Monarchy (http://pub96.ezboard.com/bcomputermonarchy)

Ktonos

11-01-2002, 14:40

If you eliminate the Pope then no excommunication and no crusades, but the Pope comes back every some years with HUGE armies attacking Rome and the Papal States. You must have enormous armies to defend them.

favedave

11-01-2002, 17:55

The best way to deal with the pope is to attack Rome, kill him, then retreat from Rome. Leave it empty.

Oh, before you leave, destroy all buildings.

Then when the Pope comes back, he will only attack the bandits or peasants that have risen there.

Keep a huge force in the Papal states to retake the pope whenever you need to. Like when he excom's you. Or when you need to do your final push and win the game.

Paladin

11-01-2002, 18:43

Quote Originally posted by favedave:
The best way to deal with the pope is to attack Rome, kill him, then retreat from Rome. Leave it empty.

Oh, before you leave, destroy all buildings.

Then when the Pope comes back, he will only attack the bandits or peasants that have risen there.

Keep a huge force in the Papal states to retake the pope whenever you need to. Like when he excom's you. Or when you need to do your final push and win the game.[/QUOTE]

Exactly my strategy as well, although I only take Rome as the last province in my campaigns.

But, hey, why kill the Pope anyway? What kind of Kings are you people? Is it worth your soul to kill the earthly leader of your faith just to avoid excommunication?

Lord TangMo

11-01-2002, 20:27

I attacked and occupy Rome and pushed him to the other province (could not remember the name). Then attack that province but not to kill him, put his army under siege for some year (be careful not to kill him) and destroy some structures in that province and then retreat when the castle is about to fall. After that he did not distrub me anymore. And, of course,he was still there so no pop up army to worry about.

Anyway, I am playing a Byz so I have not problem about excom. But, during my campaign, I found one message, actually twice, such that Pope had been assasinated and all excoms were lift. So, you might try that option and let me know the result too.

[This message has been edited by Lord TangMo (edited 11-01-2002).]

MizuKokami

11-09-2002, 23:21

i took care of the pope once by insciteing a riot with about 8 spys. re retreated to the castle and it took years for him to die off, but shortly after, i owned europe.

Dawood

11-09-2002, 23:45

Play the muslims or the Orthodox. That solves the problem. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Nobunaga0611

11-10-2002, 01:57

The best thing to do when trying to get rid of the pope is to have enough cav to encircle him before he runs. I've tried this, and have never been able to capture him on the battlefield, he ALWAYS escapes. So try to have enough cav to not let this happen. I think he escapes so he can sit in the castle, and excomunicate you, thinking its gonna stop you. After he's gone you get a message saying that lots of his followers escaped and set up somewhere. I think thats why he seems to come back so often.

Kraellin

11-10-2002, 02:23

i've had a couple interesting run-ins with the pope in my campaigns. in one, i was currently excommunicated and the italians overran the papacy. i was no longer ex-commed. the italians not only wiped out the papal states but kept it from re-emerging for a very long period. since i was playing a catholic faction (the english, i think), this actually got a bit annoying because i couldnt raise any crusades. and since the italians at that point were my very needed allies in a large, multiple war going on, i couldnt very well attack them to free up the pope. eventually, the pope re-emerged, but it wasnt on the italian peninsula; the italians just really had that area locked up.

the other interesting death of the pope was at my hands. i was again ex-commed (happens a lot to me) and decided enough was enough, so i sent several beginning level assassins after the pontiff. the first one to arrive had only about a 13% chance of killing him. i decided to go, ok, go ahead, i've got more experienced ones coming to back you up. he surprisinly succeeded and went from 0 to a 4 in rank. apparently, your assassins rise in rank based on the difficulty of the mission. this was pre-patch.

K.

[RDH] Spetz Natz

11-11-2002, 09:18

Just wondering if, in any time in history, ANY Pope actually participated in battle (like they are "forced" to do in MTW)?

Makes me laugh to think of the Ponitff on a horse with sword and shield ready.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Shahed

11-11-2002, 11:47

Well I have been playing Egypt in a very long campaign now. Of course in all campaigns the pope becomes a pit of a pest because he usually has something to say about the ongoing Medieval Total War.

In this campaign I got about 4-6 crusades thrown at me thx to the pope's influence. I built up my navy, and my trading empire as a consequence. Built up 4 powerful stacks and KABOOM landed right in Rome and Papal States simultaneously. Pope escaped the battle of course and died in his castle like 8 years later LOOOOOL. Now I’m about 15 years after that, all the catholic factions are at peace with Egypt except for the French. The pope has not reappeared yet, but in any case I’ll never take my stacks out of the Papal States. The Pope is a super nuisance.

I started a couple of other campaigns as English and the Danes. Always play on expert level to get the best out of the AI. While playing the English you have to wait relatively long before you can amass an army large enough to crush the French in 5 years. In this case it took me around 10 years but the Pope had already excommunicated the English by the 4th year. In a Danish campaign similar situation.

I think when playing as Catholics best to ally with him immediately and try to get on his good side. Also as the English getting excommed reduced loyalty and happiness in the provinces back home and reduced the loyalty of the most pious generals. It was darn close to civil war but luckily the French got crushed and I was able to send some troops back for "homeland defense".

Shahed

11-11-2002, 11:50

Quote[/b] ([RDH] Spetz Natz @ Nov. 11 2002,08:18)]Just wondering if, in any time in history, ANY Pope actually participated in battle (like they are "forced" to do in MTW)?

Makes me laugh to think of the Ponitff on a horse with sword and shield ready.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Hard to imagine that. It's well known that the Pope was responsible for many political events in the Niddle Ages, but if he really went to battle himself seems unlikely ??

muffinman14

11-14-2002, 00:18

wat if I have controlled the papale states and rome for at least 30 years and it doesnt seem to become a riot any time soon? I keep a force of about 500 on the papal states. It said when the old pope died that a puppet pope would re-emerge but it never happend. Im just wainting to throw a crusade against the egytians.

Forward Observer

11-14-2002, 02:42

Here is a strategy that I used against the Pope's constant returns that has worked twice. The first time was an accident,but the next time I staged it, and it worked again. This was pre patch, but I can't imagine why it still would not work.

After taking Rome, and the Pope was gone or dead. (I don't remember which) I left one unit in the province and raised taxes to incite a revolt. The resulting rebel army was small and low tech. I moved out and let them have the province. From this point on The Pope never reappeared.

Of course when I had conquered the rest of the map, I went back and conquered Rome to end the game.

Cheers

Lord Romulous

11-14-2002, 03:54

i generaly destroy the pope once.

keep a large garrison (for about 10 years) in the papal states but abandon rome.

usually the pope will come back in Rome and leave the papal states alone.

i am have held the papal states for 100 years and have not been bothered by the pope in rome, either through excommunication or invasion.

in fact he and i are good mates, i often pop into the vatican to borrow a cup of sugar to two.

Prodigal

11-14-2002, 15:51

Post patch I can assur eyou he comes back as big & bad if not badder than ever, larger armies, & he also seems to appear in Rome &/or Papael at the same time on occasions. I had a 200 year snit with him recently over attacking the french & germans,& in the end gave up Rome.

He attacks Rome even if it has revolted btw.

Houston

11-16-2002, 21:54

Pre-patch Pope Problem Pondered...

I finally needed to slaughter some fellow Catholics and didn't want to bother with the Pope, so I invaded him and squashed the little bugger Then I destroyed everything in his provinces and abandonded them to the Rebels. 15 or 20 years later he is back, we have a little tiff, but I'm ready and waiting for him. I knocked him down to a single province, invaded with a huge force and sent him running to a fort.

So this leaves him with only a wimpy little force. From that point on, I just ignored him. That is until he threatened to excomunnicate me, at which point I would take him out with a 5 star assasin and have a few years under a new Pope to mess with the other Catholics. I didn't keep count, but I went through loads of Popes. Or is that Popi...?

Not very realistic, but kind of fun and very effective

Katasaki Hirojima

11-19-2002, 04:17

*L* I just beat him down ever time he pops up. I currently have about 90K Flroins in the bank, and as you might expect my imperial armys are huge. I have all of the meditteranean in my control so whenever he pops up about 3 900 man armys also show up to put'em down. Infact I just got done fighting the pope tonight. Was a great battle, he had some decent units this time. he came back again the next turn, so I just sent my armies back to smash his face into the dirt. THe rest of my armys are currently pushing against wayyyy overextended russia while skilled, old veteran armys of the Italian-German war hold my borders against the English in france and the Aragonese. GOod fun, I control all of the Balkans up to Hungary, a good part of souther germany, eastern france and all of North Africa. The wealth from Venice, Egypt, Constantinople, Sciliy and a few other provinces is incredible post-patch, and made my armys very big.

Brown Wolf

11-25-2002, 21:26

The pope is immortal. Though I normally regret taking Rome, so its best just to use assasghns.

LadyAnn

11-25-2002, 23:03

Ah, the Pitiful Puppet Pope http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I am having an Italian Campaign and I invaded Sicily after a walk to Naple (Naples within 4 years,as soon as I got the 5 stars general out of Corsica, Sicily within 8 years). Perhaps it is a mistake as the Pope demanded I walk out of Sicily within 2 years. He gave me 1000 florins the year before that though.

I guess as Italy, I'll mend the fence with the Pope and continue receiving his money.

Annie

LordKhaine

11-25-2002, 23:10

Quote[/b] (LadyAnn @ Nov. 25 2002,16:03)]I guess as Italy, I'll mend the fence with the Pope and continue receiving his money.
Money? what money??. He gives me a few pay offs at the start.. but no matter what I do afterwards he never seems to give me more money http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

LadyAnn

11-26-2002, 00:55

Oh, that means the Pope run out of his usefulness later? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Annie
ps.: to the Pope: send me money or I will invade your minion allies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

deutschlanduberalles

11-26-2002, 05:34

Why do all you guys force the pope into Rome? I always take Rome and force him into the papal states. Rome's title gives +2 command :P

Al Qasim Hussein

11-27-2002, 19:53

I've owned the Papal states for maybe thirty years and Rome for about half that and haven't seen hide nor hair of the Pope since I raided his keep and put his head on a pike out front. Maybe its like a scare-pope, keeping the stray popes away that would peck at my productive olive orchards.

Ktonos

11-27-2002, 20:33

He will come...oh yes he will...

And then he will leave once more again... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

gothicform

11-30-2002, 02:28

well i have constant problems with the pope. i have 2000 soldiers stationed on each of his provinces and the pope rises up every second turn sometimes with units consisting entirely of chivalric knights. its annoying and expensive to put down one rebellion then face another the following round.

Coucy

11-30-2002, 07:29

Quote[/b] (SeljukSinan @ Nov. 11 2002,04:50)]
Quote[/b] ([RDH] Spetz Natz @ Nov. 11 2002,08:18)]Just wondering if, in any time in history, ANY Pope actually participated in battle (like they are "forced" to do in MTW)?

Makes me laugh to think of the Ponitff on a horse with sword and shield ready.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Hard to imagine that. It's well known that the Pope was responsible for many political events in the Niddle Ages, but if he really went to battle himself seems unlikely ??
Yep, there actually was at least one "Warrior Pope" in history that I know of off hand, who led Papal forces on the front lines, in armor AND on horseback: Julius II (1503-1513). Outside the time period of the game, but only slightly.

He was at war constantly during his reign with various north Italian city states over control of Bologna and Perugia (ie, "The Papal States" province).

BTW, he took a LOT of criticism for this by his contemporaries (not to mention later historians&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif for this rather nonclerical behavior.

He is perhaps even better known as the patron of Michaelangelo, who commissioned the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.