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Hooahguy
08-30-2016, 15:54
In the video in question there was a speaker who was advocating that listeners read the works of a known Holocaust denier. While it wasnt outright Holocaust denial, I felt it best to delete it not just because of the topic but because the video was causing a lot of tensions here. Although it seems like it didnt do any good. :sweatdrop:
Gilrandir
08-30-2016, 16:28
I felt it best to delete it not just because of the topic but because the video was causing a lot of tensions here. Although it seems like it didnt do any good. :sweatdrop:
You should have deleted Fragony and Legs. They cause a lot of tensions too.
Why do I get the feeling that there was more than one link?
That thought is creeping up on me as well. The link I saw was an interview with a guy who's house was raided, he wouldn't be in such a facebook group if he wasn't a nazi-symphatiser but I saw no holocaust denial whatsoever, just a description of the raid. As for threats, the guys in black iron bars are antifa, you are German you know who they are. We have them here as well but not nearly as violent as in Germany, more like hobbyists
In any case, holocaust denial is illegal in Germany (which I find stupid), but glorifying nazis is not
Oh, we are talking about that nazi group video with the German whose house got raided? The one from last months that I forgot about and didn't watch because it's 1 hour and 21 minutes long? I won't argue about the legitimacy of that guy's case, I just want to leave this here:
http://www.theonion.com/infographic/what-alt-right-53747
You might just be right, we have never been talking about the same video probably. haven't seen the video you refer to either. But I can absolutily guaranty that video isn't the video that Greyblades posted, his hands are perfectly clean and doesn't deserve the insinuations
You might just be right, we have never been talking about the same video probably. haven't seen the video you refer to either. But I can absolutily guaranty that video isn't the video that Greyblades posted, his hands are perfectly clean and doesn't deserve the insinuations
The video I mentioned was posted by Greyblades...
Yeah, about 10 minutes into the Greyblades video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeysZCA8onI), turns out the guy was lying anyway. He originally said he "liked" a picture, in a group he was randomly invited in. Around 10 minutes in, turns out he was the one who actually posted the picture. It is around 40 minute mark, he is saying about a "historian" who is a holocaust denier.
Had it running in the background, I found it rather uninteresting and boring. Then i reverted to something more intellectually stimulating like CGP Grey. (https://www.youtube.com/user/CGPGrey/videos)
I think people only watched it because they were fans of Sargon of Akkad and his kin, due to a persona of being part of a 'free thinking' 'free speech' movement. Though saying that, quoting from a different video (https://youtu.be/4FS5F5y_da8?t=7m25s), Sargon does say this about racists and racism:
I find racism hilarious. Racism is the most ridiculous thing I can possibly imagine. Actually being a geniune racist, as a serious position, is possibly one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. Comedy comes from absurdity.
Seamus Fermanagh
08-30-2016, 18:12
Hate the restriction of free speech, as I have argued above. However, to be fair to the staff, they MUST conform to the legal requirements in force wherever our server(s) are located.
You might just be right, we have never been talking about the same video probably. haven't seen the video you refer to either. But I can absolutily guaranty that video isn't the video that Greyblades posted, his hands are perfectly clean and doesn't deserve the insinuations
Wow , absolutely incredible.
How much is a guarantee from Fragony worth?
Yeah, about 10 minutes into the Greyblades video, turns out the guy was lying anyway. He originally said he "liked" a picture, in a group he was randomly invited in. Around 10 minutes in, turns out he was the one who actually posted the picture. It is around 40 minute mark, he is saying about a "historian" who is a holocaust denier.
Had it running in the background, I found it rather uninteresting and boring. Then i reverted to something more intellectually stimulating like CGP Grey. (https://www.youtube.com/user/CGPGrey/videos)
Around 37 minutes he says he had the old German Reichsflag in his window...
Give me a freaking break, the only people who display that are Neo Nazis (as a legal replacement for the illegal swastika flag) and maybe members of the Reichsbürgerbewegung, people who think that for one reason or another, the old empire from 1871 to 1918 is still the only legitimate German state or something like that. They're like Semi-Neo-Nazis because their ideologies are pretty close and I think they also often mix in demonstrations and so on. You can compare the latter somewhat to the Sovereign Citizens movement in the US.
So I guess when I immediately replied that the guy probably deserved to get raided because he's actually a nazi, I was quite right even without watching the entire video...
It's the typical "Boohoo, why is my hatred and non-acceptance of the jews and immigrants not accepted by the mainstream!?!" hidden in a lot of whining about how "the system is on their side" and so on.
Better to focus on the important issues like Beskar just said.
Last time we discussed Holocaust Denial was here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?142164-What-can-YOU-do-to-help-defeat-communism&p=2053472992&viewfull=1#post2053472992) when the backroom had a neo-nazi paying a visit. The topic was pretty much put to rest. If you really want to talk about Holocaust Denial, there are websites on the internet that cater for that type of thing on the DarkNet.
As mentioned by Seamus, there are countries where denial is also illegal.
Anyway, this is an immigration topic, so please return to that. :bow:
The org comes from the Netherlands, holocaust-denial isn't illegal here. But moderators should have the means to judge as they see fit. As it looks now this guy is full of shit.
The org comes from the Netherlands, holocaust-denial isn't illegal here. But moderators should have the means to judge as they see fit. .
Your prime minister says otherwise. But he isn't happy that Dutch courts cover Holocaust denial under incitement to hatred laws.
As it looks now this guy is full of shit
It looked that way all along, yet you chose to repeatedly defend him and his views which he expressed in the interview
Your prime minister says otherwise. But he isn't happy that Dutch courts cover Holocaust denial under incitement to hatred laws.
It looked that way all along, yet you chose to repeatedly defend him and his views which he expressed in the interview
It looks like Fragony is now (mostly) in agreement with you, there is no need to kick him further IMO other than to keep up a conflict.
So what about the idea that immigration will become irrelevant to job-concerns as robots and IT replace more and more workers anyway? How should we model a post-work society?
Holocaust denial isn't illegal but it can be treated as incitement to hate thats true, and it's probably just that. You can deny anything for all I care if that's your thing. I find it stupid but go ahead.
Edit, and there is no reason to kick Greyblades at all, I watched the video he posted. It wasn't there.
Greyblades
08-30-2016, 19:24
One could say that a holocaust denial is usually inaccurate, hateful and used to harass people, it is also against a law.
And as if that weren't enough, it is an insult addressed to a group that is very inflammatory.
Do the servers fall under german jurisdiction now?
The main intent of posting the video was an example of how the german authorities (and anti-fa) are raiding people for "hate speech" on the internet; A man posts a provocative picture around on facebook: gets included in a raid of 60 people by the police (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36804363) and a mob defaces his home, then he explains his situation to interviewers a few days later. Simultaniously I wanted to show how the amount of zeal the german police when persuing these people is in stark contrast with the reluctance the german police have exhibited when responding to extremism of their immigrant population over the last two years.
The video contains no holocaust denial inside it, it has one man spend 5 seconds recomending the viewer listen to a speech by a holocaust denier, that only earns confusion from the interviewers and likely the listeners. You have to dig deep and reference other materiel to find any inflammatory material in it, and likely noone here would have noticed if legs wasnt looking for any excuse to dismiss this man's testimony and excuse his mistreatment, an excuse I am depressed to see some of the rest of you jump on.
In the video in question there was a speaker who was advocating that listeners read the works of a known Holocaust denier. While it wasnt outright Holocaust denial, I felt it best to delete it not just because of the topic but because the video was causing a lot of tensions here. Although it seems like it didnt do any good.
Every time a mod tried to kill a conversation by deleting the posts without taking further action all it does is make the subject of the deletions feel persecuted, making tensions worse.
Please dont do it again.
The entire intent of posting the video was an example of how the german authorities (and anti-fa) are raiding people for "hate speech" on the internet; A man posts a provocative picture around on facebook: gets included in a raid of 60 people by the police (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36804363) and a mob defaces his home, then he explains his situation to interviewers a few days later. Simultaniously I wanted to show how the amount of zeal the german police when persuing these people is in stark contrast with the reluctance the german police have exhibited when responding to extremism of their immigrant population over the last two years.
Wow.
What mistreatment?
Is it where he was punched , well pushed , well they restrained me when I tried to get past them into the property the police were conducting a search of, well I don't know really because I was drunk but I had sore ribs when I woke up in the morning?
Is that the mistreatment you are on about?
He certainly had difficulty getting his story straight didn't he.
Consider this....In other jurisdictions his actions during the search would have probably resulted in a belt round the head with a baton and then a charge of obstruction and assault.
The video contains no holocaust denial inside it, it has one man spend 5 seconds recomending the viewer listen to a speech by a holocaust denier, that only earns confusion from the interviewers and likely the listeners. You have to dig deep and reference other materiel to find any inflammatory material in it, and likely noone here would have noticed if legs wasnt looking for any excuse to dismiss this man's testimony and excuse his mistreatment, an excuse I am depressed to see some of the rest of you jump on.
Would you not consider that perhaps some people are familiar with neo nazi ideology and the symbolism they use and that these things are very easy to spot.
Hooahguy
08-30-2016, 20:47
Every time a mod tried to kill a conversation by deleting the posts without taking further action all it does is make the subject of the deletions feel persecuted, making tensions worse.
Please dont do it again.
I will take that under advisement.
Do the servers fall under german jurisdiction now?
The rules say any law, they don't mention a specific country, I chose my words very wisely as you can see. ~D
The main intent of posting the video was an example of how the german authorities (and anti-fa) are raiding people for "hate speech" on the internet; A man posts a provocative picture around on facebook: gets included in a raid of 60 people by the police (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36804363) and a mob defaces his home, then he explains his situation to interviewers a few days later. Simultaniously I wanted to show how the amount of zeal the german police when persuing these people is in stark contrast with the reluctance the german police have exhibited when responding to extremism of their immigrant population over the last two years.
The Sauerland-Gruppe and the NSU would beg to differ.
The video contains no holocaust denial inside it, it has one man spend 5 seconds recomending the viewer listen to a speech by a holocaust denier, that only earns confusion from the interviewers and likely the listeners. You have to dig deep and reference other materiel to find any inflammatory material in it, and likely noone here would have noticed if legs wasnt looking for any excuse to dismiss this man's testimony and excuse his mistreatment, an excuse I am depressed to see some of the rest of you jump on.
I find any material from Sauron of Akkad inflammatory, don't insult my sensibilities. :clown:
I also dismissed the video as that of a Nazi whiner long before Legs commented on it, I'm not jumping onto anything here, you're twisting the events now. It is not an excuse, the video is a very one-sided account based on the testimony of a person of highly questionable moral standards...
For someone who always pretends to care about proof you jump onto the trust-train very fast, apparently without questioning his motives.
Every time a mod tried to kill a conversation by deleting the posts without taking further action all it does is make the subject of the deletions feel persecuted, making tensions worse.
Please dont do it again.
Every time? You need to prove that first before I believe it.
Edit, and there is no reason to kick Greyblades at all, I watched the video he posted. It wasn't there.
Incredible.
It has already been established without any shadow of doubt that you didn't watch the video which you are trying to defend.
Incredible.
It has already been established without any shadow of doubt that you didn't watch the video which you are trying to defend.
I am not efending the video, I don't like nazi's so why would I, I'm defending Greyblades against your insinuations. Yes I saw the video. Maybe there is a longer version like Hussie suggested, would make sense, but that's not what I saw.
I am not efending the video, I don't like nazi's so why would I, I'm defending Greyblades against your insinuations. Yes I saw the video. Maybe there is a longer version like Hussie suggested, would make sense, but that's not what I saw.
There was only one video, why are you insisting that you somehow managed to watch a video that was different to the only one posted?
Why persist with making claims that have already been shown to be untrue.
As for insinuations against greyblades, what insinuations are you on about?
Seamus Fermanagh
08-31-2016, 21:00
Last time we discussed Holocaust Denial was here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?142164-What-can-YOU-do-to-help-defeat-communism&p=2053472992&viewfull=1#post2053472992) when the backroom had a neo-nazi paying a visit. The topic was pretty much put to rest. If you really want to talk about Holocaust Denial, there are websites on the internet that cater for that type of thing on the DarkNet.
As mentioned by Seamus, there are countries where denial is also illegal.
Anyway, this is an immigration topic, so please return to that. :bow:
Just checked. "Holocaust denial" is criminal in Belgium (where I believe our servers reside), prosecutable as hate speech/incitement to hatred in Germany, France & the Netherlands. Since this covers all of the spots I believe to be where are server(s) are, our moderators are handling this quite appropriately for the organization.
So....
I do not believe the problem is one of immigration so much as of assimilation. Cultures can and do change -- a degree of change is healthy -- but can only absorb so much change in any one stretch. The USA strictly curtailed immigration in 1924 following the huge wave of immigrants (many from areas bordering the Med or in Eastern Europe) so as to allow for effective assimilation.
May not have been an ideal system, but it does speak to the key issues of concern.
Just checked. "Holocaust denial" is criminal in Belgium (where I believe our servers reside), prosecutable as hate speech/incitement to hatred in Germany, France & the Netherlands. Since this covers all of the spots I believe to be
I do not believe the problem is one of immigration so much as of assimilation. Cultures can and do change -- a degree of change is healthy -- but can only absorb so much change in any one stretch. The USA strictly curtailed immigration in 1924 following the huge wave of immigrants (many from areas bordering the Med or in Eastern Europe) so as to allow for effective assimilation.
May not have been an ideal system, but it does speak to the key issues of concern.
As was mentioned earlier , apart from a very few limited jurisdictions these laws cover"crrimes against humanity" not "holocaust denial"
Which is seemingly an arbituary measure.
So....
I do not believe the problem is one of immigration so much as of assimilation. Honestly Seamus, stop please stop, how can you say that? From what I gathered of your writing, that episode about assimilation sounds exactly like the NSDAB electoral programe, not at all suggesting that these are views you hold but one must be careful with the language one uses.
Kind reguards, Legs
As was mentioned earlier , apart from a very few limited jurisdictions these laws cover"crrimes against humanity" not "holocaust denial"
Which is seemingly an arbituary measure.
I think wikipedia disagrees:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#Belgium
Article 1 Whoever, in the circumstances given in article 444 of the Penal Code denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist Regime during the Second World War shall be punished by a prison sentence of eight days to one year, and by a fine of twenty six francs to five thousand francs.
Honestly Seamus, stop please stop, how can you say that? From what I gathered of your writing, that episode about assimilation sounds exactly like the NSDAB electoral programe, not at all suggesting that these are views you hold but one must be careful with the language one uses.
Kind reguards, Legs
I don't quite see how or why. He basically just said that immigrants need to assimilate, at least to a certain extent, to prevent problems.
I can see how that makes sense unless one believes in the kind of multiculturalism where everyone should keep their culture and not adapt to anything. Though I'm not sure how the latter is supposed to work if a foreign culture demands people to do things that the host culture deems illegal and repulsive, e.g. human sacrifices.
HopAlongBunny
09-01-2016, 02:52
Call it "fear of our shadow"
At least here in the America's us "come from aways" stole the land, changed the customs and ruined the economy; no one wants to see that happen :oops:
Greyblades
09-01-2016, 17:20
What mistreatment? He was raided by the police over nothing worse than ascribing to an ideology the state deems dengerous, if it had been a certain other ideology I'd dare say we'd never hear the end of it.
Would you not consider that perhaps some people are familiar with neo nazi ideology and the symbolism they use and that these things are very easy to spot.
I would consider anyone who could easily spot them wouldnt need to be protected from wrong-think.
The Sauerland-Gruppe and the NSU would beg to differ. The taharrush gangs of cologne would not.
I find any material from Sauron of Akkad inflammatory, don't insult my sensibilities. :clown:
I also dismissed the video as that of a Nazi whiner long before Legs commented on it, I'm not jumping onto anything here, you're twisting the events now. It is not an excuse, the video is a very one-sided account based on the testimony of a person of highly questionable moral standards... Believe it or not, I wasnt actually taking about you.
For someone who always pretends to care about proof you jump onto the trust-train very fast, apparently without questioning his motives.Which is why I included a news article to confirm that the event actually happened.
Every time? You need to prove that first before I believe it.
That would be because a) I wasnt talking to you and b) I thought you allready knew. You did notice the amount of salt produced whenever warman, total_relism, truth1337 legs and all the various short lived vistors to the backroom got on the wrong side of the mods but didnt earn a full suspension?
Just checked. "Holocaust denial" is criminal in Belgium (where I believe our servers reside), prosecutable as hate speech/incitement to hatred in Germany, France & the Netherlands. Since this covers all of the spots I believe to be where are server(s) are, our moderators are handling this quite appropriately for the organization.
Assuming that's the real reason, I'm fine with that, covering the legal bases is a lot easier to accept.
The taharrush gangs of cologne would not.
Terrible example because that was completely unexpected in terms of size and organization, it's a bit like saying the japanese should have built Hiroshima with nuclear bomb defense structures in mind. :dizzy2:
The German police prevented 9 or more islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11, don't tell me they're ignoring problems.
They've also been talking about other problems but people tend to ignore that in favor of budget cuts until something actually happens.
Don't tell me it's much different elsewhere or with other issue because I sort of have a list...
Which is why I included a news article to confirm that the event actually happened.
But news articles don't prove anything, we need primary sources before we can believe it.
The guy himself played the victim in the video but what else would he do? Talk about all the terrible things he did to deserve that?
I'm not even questioning that he was raided, I was saying he probably deserved it like people of your conviction thought that Saddam Hussein deserved to get shot without a trial.
The floodgates of surveillance were opened due to fear of terrorism and now people cry about the slipperyness of the slope.
I'm merely enjoying the moment and the fact he is a nazi makes it even more enjoyable.
You know, when people want freedom of speech to talk about forms of government that they praise and the ideas of which run completeley counter to freedom of speech, I cry tears of happiness when they get arrested.
That would be because a) I wasnt talking to you and b) I thought you allready knew. You did notice the amount of salt produced whenever warman, total_relism, truth1337 legs and all the various short lived vistors to the backroom got on the wrong side of the mods but didnt earn a full suspension?
I'm not familiar with salt production in fora, so I'm not entirely sure what you're saying.
My point was that you said "every time...", whereas "every time a very confrontational poster....", for example, might be more accurate.
Fragony for example seems to be immune to oversalturation.
He was raided by the police over nothing worse than ascribing to an ideology the state deems dengerous, if it had been a certain other ideology I'd dare say we'd never hear the end of it.
He broke the law and was arrested for it, how is that mistreatment?
Did you notice Anjem Chouidray finally got properly busted, they had raided him again and again , finally they could prove that he was breaking the law.
Did you hear anyone complain about it? Did you hear lots of people express the thought "about bloody time"
I would consider anyone who could easily spot them wouldnt need to be protected from wrong-think.
Since you couldn't spot them at all does that mean you need protection?
Talk abouf a poor example, nobody knew about nuclair bombs. Sexism in muslim culture and terrugha-mobs of amateur-gaenacogists acting like hyena's, encircling, striking, is wellknown though
Seamus Fermanagh
09-02-2016, 19:33
... Honestly Seamus, stop please stop, how can you say that? From what I gathered of your writing, that episode about assimilation sounds exactly like the NSDAB electoral programe, not at all suggesting that these are views you hold but one must be careful with the language one uses.
Kind reguards, Legs
Slowing the pace of immigration does not equate nativism or hate. After the 1924 law and prior to its repeal in 1970? or so, people still emigrated to the United States perfectly legally -- including my wife's parents. The goal was to slow the absorption rate, not zero it out. An influx of the new is healthy.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-02-2016, 19:35
Talk abouf a poor example, nobody knew about nuclair bombs. Sexism in muslim culture and terrugha-mobs of amateur-gaenacogists acting like hyena's, encircling, striking, is wellknown though
I realize that "The Queen's" is not your first language, and my knowledge of Dutch is execrable, but this was NOT your best effort at a clear post.
It's pretty simple, Japan didn't know about atomic but Germany knows what they are importing
Greyblades
09-03-2016, 11:35
Terrible example because that was completely unexpected in terms of size and organization, it's a bit like saying the japanese should have built Hiroshima with nuclear bomb defense structures in mind. :dizzy2:
The German police prevented 9 or more islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11, don't tell me they're ignoring problems.
They've also been talking about other problems but people tend to ignore that in favor of budget cuts until something actually happens.
Don't tell me it's much different elsewhere or with other issue because I sort of have a list...
Husar my problem is not that they're preempting it as much as the difference in proportion of response: all the examples you give of muslims the police confront are high damage terror plots but when it comes to lesser matters the response developes a double standard. Producing the bizzare scenario where Nationalists are reviled en mass, dealt with such strictness that a man has his property siezed for posting provocative pictures on the internet but 2000 muslim men partake in mass molestation and rape in the streets and the german government's highest priority is to avoid a backlash against the group that produced and harbours them. It makes it seem that a Muslim must be encouraging terrorism to recieve the same scrutiny that a german nationalist gathers just by shitposting.
This drive to protect one compared to the eagerness to oppress the other being especially exhasperating when the core ideologies of both are equally rehensible, equally hostile and islam is currently much more prone to violence.
But news articles don't prove anything, we need primary sources before we can believe it. You realy need to learn the difference between events, trends, news and opinion. Maybe then your attempts to use my arguments against me might actually work.
The guy himself played the victim in the video but what else would he do? Talk about all the terrible things he did to deserve that?The article said the raids were "targeting people suspected of posting hate content on social media" which puts the limit of the "terrible things he did to deserve that" somewhat low and going by the recent german trend towards overreaction in that field, his claims towards innocuity become a lot more believable.
Producing the bizzare scenario where Nationalists are reviled en mass, dealt with such strictness that a man has his property siezed for posting provocative pictures on the internet
What is bizzare about siezing evidence?
It makes it seem that a Muslim must be encouraging terrorism to recieve the same scrutiny that a german nationalist gathers just by shitposting.
How many of them have now been arrested? didn't the germans even track people to other countries to arrest them for the new years eve crimes.
The article said the raids were "targeting people suspected of posting hate content on social media" which puts the limit of the "terrible things he did to deserve that" somewhat low and going by the recent german trend towards overreaction in that field, his claims towards innocuity become a lot more believable.
Jesus wept:wall: the German authorities upped their level of monitoring of these Greater Deutchland groups after death threats had been posted. The annual report from the defenders of the constitution on their monitoring runs to about 70 pages on far right threats, it has about 70 pages on the extreme left, it has about 80 on Islamists and 50 pages on other external groups present in Germany
Why are you defending that neo nazi scumbag?
Sarmatian
09-03-2016, 21:59
2000 muslim men partake in mass molestation and rape in the streets
I thought it would've grown to 10000 and virgin sacrifices by now. You can't even depend on internet fascists any more, what is the world coming to...
I thought it would've grown to 10000 and virgin sacrifices by now. You can't even depend on internet fascists any more, what is the world coming to...
Feel free to look it up, that's just Keulen by the way. You can also easily find what the German police union has to say about it, comes down to 'we are simply not allowed to do our job'. The German police have to be figurants in the theatre of the childless mutti's barren womb.
Deutschland schaft sich ab (pun for German members)
childless mutti's barren womb.
Why do you still use that white supremacist line all the time?
Why do you still use that white supremacist line all the time?
Do they? How could I know. It's well known that childless women go insane, you can find countless studies on that. Besides of that, it's more than likely that Merkel is the daughter of Hitler by the sister of Eva Braun who was brought to a priest and raised by him, not that that really matters, but Iam sure it matters to her even if it's not true. Just look at her facial features, 90% likely in facial recognisniotion, a lunatic in charge
Do they? How could I know.
How could you not know? Is it just a phrase that sprung into your head or is it something you picked up on the internet?
It's well known that childless women go insane, you can find countless studies on that. Besides of that, it's more than likely that Merkel is the daughter of Hitler by the sister of Eva Braun who was brought to a priest and raised by him, not that that really matters, but Iam sure it matters to her even if it's not true. Just look at her facial features, 90% likely in facial recognisniotion, a lunatic in charge
Wow , absolutely incredible, have you been taking too many drugs?
could be, but at least the suggestion makes it perfectly clear of who I'm tallking to. Hi Snowhobbit how have you have been. I already suspected it but now I am sure
Gilrandir
09-04-2016, 14:03
It's well known that childless women go insane, you can find countless studies on that.
Is it not the case with childless men? Or with women who have kids?
Do they? How could I know. It's well known that childless women go insane, you can find countless studies on that. Besides of that, it's more than likely that Merkel is the daughter of Hitler by the sister of Eva Braun who was brought to a priest and raised by him, not that that really matters, but Iam sure it matters to her even if it's not true. Just look at her facial features, 90% likely in facial recognisniotion, a lunatic in charge
Conspiracy theories...
Conspiracy theories...
Of course, but compare her features, not that it really matters but it would explain her behaviour, a troubled woman who is no longer reasenable. Never noticed that stupid smile and dead eyes, she is not sane
Of course, but compare her features, not that it really matters but it would explain her behaviour, a troubled woman who is no longer reasenable. Never noticed that stupid smile and dead eyes, she is not sane
You sound like someone who saw a ghoul in the swamps.
I could say the same about you given your sentence structure, grammar and spelling... ~;)
You sound like someone who saw a ghoul in the swamps.
I could say the same about you given your sentence structure, grammar and spelling... ~;)
Do I have to be good at that, I'm not English. I can be pretty good at it when it's needed but do I really have to here. My Dutch isn't any better if I don't really care
Do I have to be good at that, I'm not English. I can be pretty good at it when it's needed but do I really have to here. My Dutch isn't any better if I don't really care
Does Merkel have to look good to make sensible politics?
Does Merkel have to look good to make sensible politics?
Does she either
Does she either
Depends on what we're talking about. I like her energy politics so far.
I think her refugee stuff was bold and brave in a way, whether it is perfect, I'm not so sure.
To say she is crazy just because she dared something big is quite off IMO. As are all the conspiracy theories that we're getting overrun and our politicians want it or so. What would have been the sensible thing to do with these 1.5 or 2 million people while they were still in Greece? What would you propose as an alternative? And please explain why that alternative would be superior to what she did.
Making absolutily obvious that it's of no use. Kindness can be cruel youknow
Sarmatian
09-04-2016, 21:53
Feel free to look it up, that's just Keulen by the way. You can also easily find what the German police union has to say about it, comes down to 'we are simply not allowed to do our job'. The German police have to be figurants in the theatre of the childless mutti's barren womb.
Deutschland schaft sich ab (pun for German members)
I did look it up.
Of course, I mostly based my understanding of the event from the police reports, not from news articles based on Facebook hysteria.
Do they? How could I know. It's well known that childless women go insane, you can find countless studies on that. Besides of that, it's more than likely that Merkel is the daughter of Hitler by the sister of Eva Braun who was brought to a priest and raised by him, not that that really matters, but Iam sure it matters to her even if it's not true. Just look at her facial features, 90% likely in facial recognisniotion, a lunatic in charge
Frags, quit whatever it is that you do, and start writing soap opera scripts for a living.
Well it could explain her behaviour if it's actually true, she does look like him that's enough for rumours.
Gilrandir
09-05-2016, 13:45
Frags, quit whatever it is that you do, and start writing soap opera scripts for a living.
... or join Game of Thrones script gang.
Or think like Hitler would have, to preserve his bloodline. The most purest would have been Eva's Braun's sister, closest to his offspring. Not that I actually believe it but if I were Hitler I would have thought like that probably.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-05-2016, 15:58
Why do you still use that white supremacist line all the time?
Frags:
He's got a point here. Using such a line once in a blue moon as sardonic humor is one thing, but adopting it regularly implies some measure of agreement.
Legs:
Again, I maintain that Frags isn't a race supremacist at all. He is an avid cultural supremacist -- but I suspect he would have no problem whatsoever with those of differing melanin content who espouse the values of Western Culture he views to be superior.
What line
edit, thx by the way SF, indeed I'm not. Wouldn't argue against being a cultural-supremacist as it would be of little use to do that as it would be a lie to say I'm not.
Frags:
He's got a point here. Using such a line once in a blue moon as sardonic humor is one thing, but adopting it regularly implies some measure of agreement.
Legs:
Again, I maintain that Frags isn't a race supremacist at all. He is an avid cultural supremacist -- but I suspect he would have no problem whatsoever with those of differing melanin content who espouse the values of Western Culture he views to be superior.
The ministry of Reichsculture were avid cultural supremacists.
Isn't one of the values of Western Culture tolerance though? Rational thought, Balance.....
What exactly is western culture? I am sure the Wasps would have a different opinion of culture to southern papists, French secularists would have a different view again.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-06-2016, 18:23
The ministry of Reichsculture were avid cultural supremacists.
There was no need for the polemics.
Isn't one of the values of Western Culture tolerance though? Rational thought, Balance.....
What exactly is western culture? I am sure the Wasps would have a different opinion of culture to southern papists, French secularists would have a different view again.
This, however, is a pointed and valid counter question. Using the phrase "Western Culture" is strategically ambiguous, with the "listener" generally applying the meaning they find most favorable to the term and thereby making it wonderfully inclusive. As with so many politicians who ask for votes by asserting they support "justice." They just carefully forget to define justice so that it can mean anything from "an eye for an eye" all the way through probation for your first murder conviction and thus garner everyone's votes.
I think there are common themes to Western Culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture): relative freedom of expression, a good degree of separation between church and state, the value of personal property, the use of logic and the scientific method, etc. I suspect Frags holds with most of these themes. There are, of course, any number of variants within Western Culture as it is not a monolith. Moreover, the past of Western culture, particularly prior to The Enlightenment, was quite different in its values preferences.
The ministry of Reichsculture were avid cultural supremacists.
Isn't one of the values of Western Culture tolerance though? Rational thought, Balance.....
What exactly is western culture? I am sure the Wasps would have a different opinion of culture to southern papists, French secularists would have a different view again.
What is tolerance? Better question
Daily Mail, but if it's England or Sweden nothing surprises me because they are England and Sweden. Seriously, considering female officers wearing a burqua? It's the Daily Mail so nothing from there surprises me either, and that it just be a smartway to moniter tthings, but it remains Dhimgland so assuming political correctness is never idiotic
Daily Mail, but if it's England or Sweden nothing surprises me because they are England and Sweden. Seriously, considering female officers wearing a burqua? It's the Daily Mail so nothing from there surprises me either, and that it just be a smartway to moniter tthings, but it remains Dhimgland so assuming political correctness is never idiotic
What are you talking about? A link might be useful.
I only know about hijabs for the scottish police.
http://www.scotland.police.uk/whats-happening/news/2016/august/hijab-ratified-as-option-for-police-scotland-uniform
In Jakarta it looks cute though:
http://en.tempo.co/read/news/2015/03/26/055653038/Female-Police-Officers-Allowed-to-Wear-Hijabs-on-Duty
If you're talking about this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3781350/Police-force-planning-let-Muslim-officers-wear-BURKAS-attract-ethnic-female-minority-officers-boost-diversity.html
Sounds almost like trolling to me. It does not even seem compatible with police work. :dizzy2:
Notice this part:
But today, even the Muslim Council of Britain said they would be against female officers wearing full-face burkas or niqabs.
Link is Daily Mail I expect what to get from them, but nothing that comes from the multicultists in England and Sweden in particular surprises me either, so it's better just to ask first
lol, the childless mother is getting her own wall in Collogne to protect women rapefugee- I man hobby-geanacolists with a master's degree, they really have one, they really didn't just rolled of the mountain lost their camel and ended up in Germany looking for it. People in Germany don't seem to want to be a figurant in the childless mother's theater anymore
i cannots gropes??
'No not really aber wir schaffen '
But where we are from women without headscarves are whores
'Yeah but come here anyway I can't have children'
It's walltime for merkel in Germaaaany
What are you talking about? :dizzy2:
What are you talking about? :dizzy2:
God knows , but he is using that stupid white suprmacist terminology yet again.
Anyone with a functioniong brain would avoid that racist crap like the plague.
I like cryptic I'm a poet at heart. Next new years eve they are going to make guarded walls at collonge station-square to fend of horny rapefugees.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-15-2016, 17:50
There are ways to make your point, Frags. Quasi-racist lingo laced doggerel is not an optimal choice.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-15-2016, 18:00
Frags:
In re-shaping your argument, you need to move away from a simple condemnation of multiculturalism and start advocating a state of cultural hybridity wherein the dominant culture takes in non-conflictual elements of the newcomer culture while retaining its core values.
I would suggest you focus more on assimilation rates, counter-productive immigration/worker/refugee policies, and the degree to which the entire system is overtaxed at present.
However, I would caution you that there is no distinct "European" culture despite commonalities among many/all of the cultures in Europe, so by arguing in favor of some degree of cultural "protectionism" you are going to run counter to the thinking of some of the "nationalism is the greatest of evils" types.
There are ways to make your point, Frags. Quasi-racist lingo laced doggerel is not an optimal choice.
Quasi-racist contempt is better than the real thing. Everybody knows except who don't know that there major problems with those who responded to Merkel's birdcall. Why import problems.
I like cryptic I'm a poet at heart. Next new years eve they are going to make guarded walls at collonge station-square to fend of horny rapefugees.
Funny that I can't even seem to find it mentioned anywhere in German, Google must be part of the conspiracy.
I like cryptic I'm a poet at heart. Next new years eve they are going to make guarded walls at collonge station-square to fend of horny rapefugees.
So why bother with your usual racist drivel yet again?
So why bother with your usual racist drivel yet again?
Islam is not a race so why do you
Montmorency
09-15-2016, 19:38
Islam isn't a race, but what about the Rolled-off-the-Mountain-Searching-for-Camel-ers?
Islam is not a race so why do you
Wrong yet again, are you always so completely clueless?
Jewish isn't a race, your mates are still racists for hating jews though aren't they.
Educate yourself...Racism....any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
....That is law in your land, so that makes you simply a racist criminal.
Just for you Fragony.
"While we stand here, over 15,000 Multicuturalists and Muslim-lovers are gathered at Youngsroget in a demonstration against freedom of speech and the white race. Every day immigrants rob, rape and kill Norwegians, every day our people and country are being plundered and destroyed by the Muslims, who suck our country empty of wealth and replace it with immoral and un-Norwegian thoughts. We were prohibited from marching in Oslo three times, whilst the Multiculturalists did not even need to ask. Is this freedom of speech? Is this democracy? …"
Seamus Fermanagh
09-16-2016, 02:46
Wrong yet again, are you always so completely clueless?
Jewish isn't a race, your mates are still racists for hating jews though aren't they.
Educate yourself...Racism....any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
....That is law in your land, so that makes you simply a racist criminal.
Their is no one-word equivalent in the English language for religious discrimination that serves as a true parallel term for racism.
Wrong yet again, are you always so completely clueless?
Jewish isn't a race, your mates are still racists for hating jews though aren't they.
Educate yourself...Racism....any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
....That is law in your land, so that makes you simply a racist criminal.
Which mates are you referring to? I have no antisemit mates
And no that doesn't make a racist by the way. Being a racist isn't illegal here by the way. You are confusing racism wiith discrmination
Sarmatian
09-16-2016, 07:16
un-Norwegian thoughts [/B]
There are some jokes in here, one wouldn't know where to begin.
Norway is an odd country, nazism isn't dead there, not bald booted flagwavers but upper-class/aristocrats, bon ton
Who wrote that doesn't belong to that, said company does nothing in the open
Their is no one-word equivalent in the English language for religious discrimination that serves as a true parallel term for racism.
Its covered. That declaration uses the words "ethnic origin".
Which mates are you referring to? I have no antisemit mates
And no that doesn't make a racist by the way.
Try and sound more convincing.
Being a racist isn't illegal here by the way. You are confusing racism wiith discrmination
Discrimination, that would be like taking job applications with muslim sounding names and throwing them straight in the bin wouldn't it.
So you are by your own admission a racist criminal.
Its covered. That declaration uses the words "ethnic origin".
lol, nooooo it isnt SF is absolutily right, ethnic origin and religion are not the same thing.
you -> school
Try and sound more convincing.
Discrimination, that would be like taking job applications with muslim sounding names and throwing them straight in the bin wouldn't it.
So you are by your own admission a racist criminal.
Technically no I was not allowed to do that, discrmination yes. But if a client makes absolutily sure that they don't want any wannabee gangsters with attitude, so be it. Process of risk control, over 60% of Marrocan youth has been convicted/suspected of a crime, is it my fault that company's don't bother? Why should I be the one bothering. 10 years ago by the way but I would do the same now as well. Also worth mentioning, I had the key of the office and I was allowed to help anyone with their homework for free in the weekends no questions asked and I did that every saturday
Why should I try to convince you anyway, felliow jewish orgah had a nice time at the restaurant I treated him a dinner and a nice time at my place with my 'mates', only nice people, just all nazi's of course
I am a nice person with an opinion on stupidity, you are a mean person who's stupid, you can't even understand the words you use. How pathetic can you get, making a new account just for me. but I'll take it as compliment. Not that I like it but I could enjoy it because you really aren't all that good at it
Hooahguy
09-17-2016, 02:22
Once again, this thread had to be purged because things got too heated. I am very close to just shutting down this thread if we cannot learn to control ourselves.
Once again, this thread had to be purged because things got too heated. I am very close to just shutting down this thread if we cannot learn to control ourselves.
Why do you allow the last two posts to remain then?
So Fragony....
lol, nooooo it isnt SF is absolutily right, ethnic origin and religion are not the same thing.
you -> school
once again, buy a dictionary if you cannot remember the definition of ethnic.
And....
I am a nice person with an opinion on stupidity, you are a mean person who's stupid, you can't even understand the words you use.
After you recall the meaning of ethnicity look up that word "stupid" too and see how you managed you judge yourself in a very unfavourable manner. you can look up the other words I used to describe you, your viwews and your actions and note that they are all textbook definitions which you fit perfectly.
Or as you put it ....you -> school
:book2:
I don't need a dictionary to know what ethnic means, and religion isn't ethnic. You aren't very good at this
I don't need a dictionary to know what ethnic means, and religion isn't ethnic. You aren't very good at this
Since you already proved you don't know what the word means that statement is clearly false.
Unless of course you want to write to all of the publishers and tell them their dictionaries are wrong:crazy:
Would you like the definition of ethnic again?....of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background <ethnic minorities> <ethnic enclaves>
Or would the recently familiar term of "ethnic cleansing" be more appropriate?....the expulsion, imprisonment, or killing of an ethnic minority by a dominant majority in order to achieve ethnic homogeneity.
yes, so? What you see as false exists only in your head, you don't understand what false means, dots cnnecting bzzzzzt syntax error, reboot
ethnic cleansing why even say that lol
Jewish isn't a race, your mates are still racists for hating jews though aren't they.
The word Jew is used to refer to both people adhering to a certain religion as well as people of a specific ethnic descendancy. Muslim, on the other hand, refers exclusively to a follower of a religion.
Jew
someone whose religion is Judaism, who is descended from Jewish people, or who participates in the culture surrounding Judaism
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Jew
Muslim
a person whose religion is Islam : a follower of Islam
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Muslim
Why make things overly complicated for him.
I would still like to know what mates you are reffering to legs, I have no affiluations with anything
I'm not sure what you're doing here Fragony, but dodging the subject of the discussion is certainly a part of it.
You shouldn't be surprised that Legs gets angry, you keep calling him wrong and have brought nothing to support your point.
I can only conclude that Legs is absolutely correct and you don't want to admit it.
I'm not sure what you're doing here Fragony, but dodging the subject of the discussion is certainly a part of it.
You shouldn't be surprised that Legs gets angry, you keep calling him wrong and have brought nothing to support your point.
I can only conclude that Legs is absolutely correct and you don't want to admit it.
The discussion legs wants is not a discussion but an unbacked verdict. With some really idiotic insinuations. I am not surprised that boots- I mean legs gets angry it is normal that leftists get angry, but I'm not nodding when bored rich kids drool on my shoes. In real life zi do because big drugged up crowds with black clothes, palishawls and hoodies are best avoided
The discussion legs wants is not a discussion but an unbacked verdict. With some really idiotic insinuations. I am not surprised that boots- I mean legs gets angry it is normal that leftists get angry, but I'm not nodding when bored rich kids drool on my shoes. In real life zi do because big drugged up crowds with black clothes, palishawls and hoodies are best avoided
Now you're just trying to fit him into your favourite stereotype so you can dismiss his argument.
This has absolutely no value beyond the confines of your body, you're still wrong.
Now you're just trying to fit him into your favourite stereotype so you can dismiss his argument.
This has absolutely no value beyond the confines of your body, you're still wrong.
argument being
argument being
That you're wrong about the meaning of ethnicities and have a tendency to sound very racist.
yes, so?
Yes so? So you are entirely wrong yet again so.
What you see as false exists only in your head, you don't understand what false means, dots cnnecting bzzzzzt syntax error, reboot
Once again your typical response when you are shown to be undeniabnly talking rubbish, seems like a habit you have.
ethnic cleansing why even say that lol
Hard question that. Is it because it contains the word you don't understand? Is it because it is a perfect example of racist scum being religious bigots?
[QUOTE=Viking;2053712637]The word Jew is used to refer to both people adhering to a certain religion as well as people of a specific ethnic descendancy. Muslim, on the other hand, refers exclusively to a follower of a religion.
Yet ethnic covers both, just like it does with hindu sihk bhuddhist or christian.
Its why the word was used in the aforementioned legislation covering racism.
Why make things overly complicated for him.
I would still like to know what mates you are reffering to legs, I have no affiluations with anything
You defended a neo nazi, you said you was going out to beat up immigrants on the weekend of the local neo nazi rally, you say you discriminate on grounds of ethnicity, you push the crazy racist eurabia conspiracy theory and you use the language nornmally found under the neo nazi "white genocide" hashtag.
Pretty damning evidence is it?
The discussion legs wants is not a discussion but an unbacked verdict. With some really idiotic insinuations. I am not surprised that boots- I mean legs gets angry it is normal that leftists get angry, but I'm not nodding when bored rich kids drool on my shoes. In real life zi do because big drugged up crowds with black clothes, palishawls and hoodies are best avoided
The discussion currently is the meaning of the word ethnic. It is backed by a definition directly from the dictionary. A definition which you rejeect because you don't think words mean what they mean.
The legislation cited uses the word, it deals with racism in all its forms, something you are uncomfortable with isn't it.
Now you're just trying to fit him into your favourite stereotype so you can dismiss his argument.
This has absolutely no value beyond the confines of your body, you're still wrong.
Well put.
Though I would have said rather tiny racist mind instead of body.
After all it must take a very special kind of mind to argue that a dictionary doesn't know what a word means.
That you're wrong about the meaning of ethnicities and have a tendency to sound very racist.
Islam is not a race, what to discuss
You defended a neo nazi, you said you was going out to beat up immigrants on the weekend of the local neo nazi rally, you say you discriminate on grounds of ethnicity, you push the crazy racist eurabia conspiracy theory and you use the language nornmally found under the neo nazi "white genocide" hashtag.
Pretty damning evidence is it?
would be if any of that was true. Neo-nazis hate the party I am going to vote for next elections
talk about language, you write as if you are more than one person, different styles
Islam is not a race, what to discuss
lets discuss words you don't understand.
would be if any of that was true.
Since all of it is true and has all been proven true beyond any shadow of doubt your post makes no sense.
Neo-nazis hate the party I am going to vote for next elections
Really? is that true? after all you do have a habit of simply making things up.
Come to think of it, didn't you say that you don't vote.
So which of your contradictory statements is false, or are they both?
talk about language, you write as if you are more than one person, different styles
Yes dear:rolleyes5:
HopAlongBunny
09-18-2016, 05:57
https://youtu.be/MjoMQJf5vKI
lets discuss words you don't understand.
Same question same answer, islam is not a race
Same question same answer, islam is not a race
lets discuss words you don't understand.
Or perhaps you are dyslexic in which case I aplologise for highlighting your learning disability, but would suggest that a program of therapy and educational support can help you cope with your mental condition.
It would seem logical that Dyslexia is the only real reason why someone would look at the word ethnic and read it as race.
The only other possible explaination would be that they realised they were completely wrong about the meaning of words and cannot argue against dictionary definitions, but wish to try and deflect from that obvious fact.
Which would be a different mental condition than dyslexia
You call me racist criminal, but islam is not a race, I really dislike islam, I really do, anyone sane should really dislike islam and leftis islamphiles who see their worldview fall apart and curl up or lash out, and that's perfectly legal. Should you be a lawyer, my advice would be to try something else, flute-lessons, painting, something else at least
You are a perfect citizen of a world that doesn't exist
You call me racist criminal, but islam is not a race.
my dear fellow, the legislation cited which you admit you break is under article 14 of the convention on all forms of racial discrimination.
The clue is in the name.
I really dislike islam, I really do, anyone sane should really dislike islam and leftis islamphiles, and that's perfectly legal.
Disliking islam is perfectly legal, breaking the law by discriminating in the workplace against people because they have a muslim sounding name is illegal. That is what makes you a racist criminal. You take your bigotry and put it into practice to violate the legal rights of others.
Should you be a lawyer, my advice would be to try something else, flute-lessons, painting, something else at least
If you meet a lawyer ask him how important definitions are, maybe he will lend you a dictionary.
Though with your useless attempts at deflection I get the distinct impression that you are entirely aware that you are completely wrong and are just trying to hide from the fact.
I got a law degree mucasu, psycholigy as well as they are really realy easy to get. The clue is to the name yes mia muca, as you you cant change your etnicacy, but you can choose your religion, your reasoning is as void as a hole in the ground that was filled up with nothing
my dear fellow, the legislation cited which you admit you break is under article 14 of the convention on all forms of racial discrimination.
The clue is in the name.
Disliking islam is perfectly legal, breaking the law by discriminating in the workplace against people because they have a muslim sounding name is illegal. That is what makes you a racist criminal. You take your bigotry and put it into practice to violate the legal rights of others.
If you meet a lawyer ask him how important definitions are, maybe he will lend you a dictionary.
Though with your useless attempts at deflection I get the distinct impression that you are entirely aware that you are completely wrong and are just trying to hide from the fact.
lollipop, I can't help it if I'm not what you want me to be, would beso much more simple no, Cor wants his key back by the way
Its why the word was used in the aforementioned legislation covering racism.
Do you have a source for that; and why this focus on this particular legislation?
Do you have a source for that; and why this focus on this particular legislation?
There isn't one. Twolegs is very confused when it comes to to international, what you posted earlier is exactly how it is defined by the UN at least.
I don't lke bu I don't like twolgs either, yes there are two Snowbobbit I See that
I got a law degree mucasu, psycholigy as well as they are really realy easy to get. The clue is to the name yes mia muca, as you you cant change your etnicacy, but you can choose your religion, your reasoning is as void as a hole in the ground that was filled up with nothing
If you had a law degree you would understand the importance of definitions.
Once again you demonstrate that your "logic" is totally absent from reality.
Do you have a source for that;
If you look at Fragonys following post you will get it, though you have to completely reverse his claim to get the truth.
and why this focus on this particular legislation
Because it fits perfectly, it is by its very nature definative as it covers all forms of racism.
As a matter of interest its the anti racism legislation used against those stupid neo nazi norwegians I mentioned earlier who were on about people of a different religion having "un-norwegian thoughts".
If you had a law degree you would understand the importance of definitions.
Once again you demonstrate that your "logic" is totally absent from reality.
I get them but zi just follow them, as a thought experiment could you completly inverse a meaning of word, let's take honesty, just because you called me a liar, which I don't apreciate by the way. But hoe exactly are you definitions going to help you, they are nothing but perceptions, the girl you find hot I might just find forgettable. Sinnce we don't really seem to like eachother let's starts a battle of wits
before you start, I know there are spelling faults I don't care
I get them but zi just follow them, as a thought experiment could you completly inverse a meaning of word, let's take honesty, just because you called me a liar, which I don't apreciate by the way. But hoe exactly are you definitions going to help you, they are nothing but perceptions, the girl you find hot I might just find forgettable.
Clueless, absolutely clueless.
BTW If you don't appreciate being called a liar then there are 3 simple things you can do. Don't lie, or don't tell such obvious lies and finally when the lie is exposed don't try and maintain it.
It works like magic.
let's starts a battle of wits
You lack the intelligence perception knowledge and rational thought process for a battle of wits.
First question, why dont even try
I don't lack anyrihing by the way, I got mayors in three profeesions, they are very eassy
If you look at Fragonys following post you will get it, though you have to completely reverse his claim to get the truth.
Because it fits perfectly, it is by its very nature definative as it covers all forms of racism.
As a matter of interest its the anti racism legislation used against those stupid neo nazi norwegians I mentioned earlier who were on about people of a different religion having "un-norwegian thoughts".
I am not from Noray, I am Dutcth, no hights, kinda low, no fjords
I am not from Noray, I am Dutcth, no hights, kinda low, no fjords
Is that another demonstration of your reading problem?
Just like the one you show in post#2401
First question, why dont even try
In case it missed you, you already lost a long time ago.
You are the Black Knight claiming " 'tis but a scratch"
And as Husar said previously, I shouldn't keep kicking you when you are already down.
I don't lack anyrihing by the way, I got mayors in three profeesions, they are very eassy
Yes dear, now given your demonstrated habit, is any of that true?
you also don't understand what kicking when someone who's down means, we train the besst n never doing that, three world champions
From Communication No. 36/2006 P.S.N. v. Denmark by the CERD (http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/CERD/Pages/CERDIntro.aspx):
The Committee observes, however, that the impugned statements specifically refer to the Koran, to Islam and to Muslims in general, without any reference whatsoever to any race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin. While the elements of the case file do not allow the Committee to analyse and ascertain the intention of the impugned statements, it remains that no specific national or ethnic groups were directly targeted as such by these oral statements as reported and printed. In fact, the Committee notes that the Muslims currently living in the State party are of heterogeneous origin. They originate from at least 15 different countries, are of diverse national and ethnic origins, and consist of non-citizens, and Danish citizens, including Danish converts.
The Committee recalls that the Convention does not cover discrimination based on religion alone, and that Islam is not a religion practised solely by a particular group, which could otherwise be identified by its "race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin." The travaux préparatoires of the Convention reveal that the Third Committee of the General Assembly rejected the proposal to include racial discrimination and religious intolerance in a single instrument, and decided in the [Convention] to focus exclusively on racial discrimination.10 It is unquestionable therefore that discrimination based exclusively on religious grounds was not intended to fall within the purview of the Convention.
Extracted from Selected Decisions of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, Volume 1 (http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Publications/CERDSelectedDecisionsVolume1.pdf) (non-PDF (http://docstore.ohchr.org/SelfServices/FilesHandler.ashx?enc=6QkG1d%2FPPRiCAqhKb7yhsn1UdnLaRjeD%2Bfr4PdSCvM0laUmtpaSbjCnzXXKrhAvpR66pXAFTkb EaJLgQkQa090rPi2I%2BecOzGsiWg5kE2STpNs3es5z7IINRNkJMTyCIRa8tBZjFcu1aNjt4qP2OvQ%3D%3D))
Montmorency
09-18-2016, 20:25
Thank you. How long does it need take before we acknowledge Fragony's specific prejudice against the Arabs, aka the Other-Side-of-the-Mountaineers (or whatever).
Very good Viking, but that is contradicted by two other verdicts on that page.
Its also contradicted by the definition you posted earlier.
Besides which , in his own words, Fragony dcriminally discriminated agfainst Muslims because some Morrocans are alledged criminals.
So he is a racist criminal under that ruling you posted.
Nope
Errrrrrr
So he is a racist criminal under that ruling viking posted.
Islam is not a race. And not some marrocan youths are criminals, but most are. Mostly small things. Only a few are not.
Islam is not a race. .
Can't you read?
And not some marrocan youths are criminals, but most are.
So you are without doubt a racist criminal according to the legislation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3397021/Just-0-5-Syrian-migrants-arrested-crime-Cologne-year.html
Even a Daily Mail link is better than the "discussion" you two are having.
And it proves both of you wrong.
Was there a discussion must have missed only, only saw an asshole calling me names
InsaneApache
09-19-2016, 14:38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LAwJDA_DB0#t=43
Effin hellski!
So the Swedes have to adapt to the to immigrants? Do these idiots want a far-right party elected, because if they do, this is a very good way of going about it.
I'm glad I'm pushing 60 and won't live to see the coming civil war.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-19-2016, 14:54
Once again, this thread had to be purged because things got too heated. I am very close to just shutting down this thread if we cannot learn to control ourselves.
I have been trying to use my "argumentation and debate" teaching hat a bit here. Underneath all of the ad hominem parsiflage is a fairly interesting argument. Sadly, too immersed in vitriol at present.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-19-2016, 15:03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LAwJDA_DB0#t=43
Effin hellski!
So the Swedes have to adapt to the to immigrants? Do these idiots want a far-right party elected, because if they do, this is a very good way of going about it.
I'm glad I'm pushing 60 and won't live to see the coming civil war.
This is a call for "multiculturalism" in its classic academic definition. That academic argument suggests that if we all try to treat one another as human beings and set aside outdated notions like nationalism and maintaining cultural stability in the face of shifting demographics, we will be able to build a new culture that adapts to change on an ongoing basis and seemlessly blends the beautiful strengths drawn from many cultures into a new whole.
That view of multiculturalism works just about as well as the original blend of Marxism. As in, theoretically beautiful, but dead in the water on practical terms.
IA, medicine is good so you are likely with us a while. In addition, that civil war has already begun -- it is just that, as with most modern wars -- we will not get something as crisply defined or resolvable as Roundheads v Cavaliers. It will meander on in low intensity civil disorder with spurts of terrorism until one side or the other's reactionary fringe engineers a repressive government to stop it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LAwJDA_DB0#t=43
Effin hellski!
So the Swedes have to adapt to the to immigrants? Do these idiots want a far-right party elected, because if they do, this is a very good way of going about it.
I'm glad I'm pushing 60 and won't live to see the coming civil war.
It's a new countrry alright, respect lol, rape capital of Europe
Montmorency
09-19-2016, 15:16
This is a call for "multiculturalism" in its classic academic definition. That academic argument suggests that if we all try to treat one another as human beings and set aside outdated notions like nationalism and maintaining cultural stability in the face of shifting demographics, we will be able to build a new culture that adapts to change on an ongoing basis and seemlessly blends the beautiful strengths drawn from many cultures into a new whole.
But you're all off. Both multiculturalism and conflict are inevitable.
By now, what makes all of it so salient is that all groups have so much history weighing down upon them.
But you're all off. Both multiculturalism and conflict are inevitable.
By now, what makes all of it so salient is that all groups have so much history weighing down upon them.
Especially in Sweden multiculturalism is a religion, the backlash of that utopian take on things might just be really harsh in the country of the Stephard Wives and as always those who don't deserve it will pay the price, attacks on immigrants who never wronged anyone comming up, that's inevitable
Was there a discussion must have missed only, only saw an asshole calling me names
Calling a liar a liar is a description.
Calling a racist a racist is a description.
Calling a bigot a bigot is a description.
Calling a criminal a criminal is a description.
It would only bering "calling names" if they were not true statements about you.
Since you proved all of them true then the only person "calling names " is you.
It's a new countrry alright, respect lol, rape capital of Europe
Amazing that, if you change a definition and change the way you count you can get a higher number.
But hey you have problems with definitions and counting don't you.
Calling a liar a liar is a description.
Calling a racist a racist is a description.
Calling a bigot a bigot is a description.
Calling a criminal a criminal is a description.
It would only bering "calling names" if they were not true statements about you.
Since you proved all of them true then the only person "calling names " is you.
If you say so, you can continue to try to provoke me all you want its not going to work
If you say so, you can continue to try to provoke me all you want its not going to work
Provoke you?
What on earth are you on about?
I think you are judging others by your own low standards.
Provoke you?
What on earth are you on about?
I think you are judging others by your own low standards.
I am not going to be provoked if you call me a liar, a racist or a criminal, I have stepped in things that are more interesting than you. And the ground is pretty low.
Effin hellski!
So the Swedes have to adapt to the to immigrants? Do these idiots want a far-right party elected, because if they do, this is a very good way of going about it.
I'm glad I'm pushing 60 and won't live to see the coming civil war.
"We are the Bjørk, resistance is futile!"
It's all your fault, when we tried to embrace our culture and asked you to join us, you helped America bring us down.
The result of that are the modern ultra-peaceful movements that want to destroy and eradicate all differences between humans and oppose all movements that want no different humans. :dizzy2:
It may surprise you, but I do agree that the tone of the video is quite strange and at least mildly offensive because it sounds like "So we did all that for decades and now you must adapt!". While I agree that putting differences aside is a good goal, one cannot ignore reality and neither should one be an ass about it.
I also don't see people who embrace macho cultures agreeing with this video.
This is a call for "multiculturalism" in its classic academic definition. That academic argument suggests that if we all try to treat one another as human beings and set aside outdated notions like nationalism and maintaining cultural stability in the face of shifting demographics, we will be able to build a new culture that adapts to change on an ongoing basis and seemlessly blends the beautiful strengths drawn from many cultures into a new whole.
:dizzy2:
Interesting, because: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism
Multiculturalism that promotes maintaining the distinctiveness of multiple cultures is often contrasted to other settlement policies such as social integration, cultural assimilation and racial segregation. Multiculturalism has been described as a "salad bowl" and "cultural mosaic".[4]
This suggests that multiculturalism embraces the differences and wants to keep them in peaceful coexistence, i.e. strong cultural stability.
I keep getting confused by all the definitions of multiculturalism, although I always thought it was more or less what you just said.
That view of multiculturalism works just about as well as the original blend of Marxism. As in, theoretically beautiful, but dead in the water on practical terms.
I think that depends a lot on the circumstances, many people would say the USA are pretty much what you described.
IA, medicine is good so you are likely with us a while. In addition, that civil war has already begun -- it is just that, as with most modern wars -- we will not get something as crisply defined or resolvable as Roundheads v Cavaliers. It will meander on in low intensity civil disorder with spurts of terrorism until one side or the other's reactionary fringe engineers a repressive government to stop it.
That's just terrible. If we can't get along then it just proves that humans are as terrible as some say. [insert terrible expletives]
If you say so, you can continue to try to provoke me all you want its not going to work
You already insulted him, what is not going to work?
Pretty simple Hus, islam isn't peace, peace is submission. Ssweden choses submisiion
Pannonian
09-19-2016, 17:41
This is a call for "multiculturalism" in its classic academic definition. That academic argument suggests that if we all try to treat one another as human beings and set aside outdated notions like nationalism and maintaining cultural stability in the face of shifting demographics, we will be able to build a new culture that adapts to change on an ongoing basis and seemlessly blends the beautiful strengths drawn from many cultures into a new whole.
That view of multiculturalism works just about as well as the original blend of Marxism. As in, theoretically beautiful, but dead in the water on practical terms.
IA, medicine is good so you are likely with us a while. In addition, that civil war has already begun -- it is just that, as with most modern wars -- we will not get something as crisply defined or resolvable as Roundheads v Cavaliers. It will meander on in low intensity civil disorder with spurts of terrorism until one side or the other's reactionary fringe engineers a repressive government to stop it.
Existing western culture is already accepting of the foundations of multiculturalism, in the form of secularism. With the possible exception of the US, and even there the constitution is revered more than religion, western countries are deeply secular. All that is asked of incomers is that they too should be secular. If they can't accept this first step, there is no next step which is acceptable.
InsaneApache
09-19-2016, 17:51
Calling a liar a liar is a description.
Calling a racist a racist is a description.
Calling a bigot a bigot is a description.
Calling a criminal a criminal is a description.
It would only bering "calling names" if they were not true statements about you.
Since you proved all of them true then the only person "calling names " is you.
Grow up.
I think that depends a lot on the circumstances, many people would say the USA are pretty much what you described.
It also has many neighbourhoods that are extremely violent (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37292306) by Western standards.
multiculturalism [is] inevitable.
What do you mean?
Seamus Fermanagh
09-19-2016, 18:41
Existing western culture is already accepting of the foundations of multiculturalism, in the form of secularism. With the possible exception of the US, and even there the constitution is revered more than religion, western countries are deeply secular. All that is asked of incomers is that they too should be secular. If they can't accept this first step, there is no next step which is acceptable.
Aye, there's the rub.
Not a bad line about revering the Constitution more than religion -- though the USA is no longer (sadly) a nation of mostly church-goers. Most of us, in the past, have been personally religious but VERY few of us want any religion connected to governance in any but a ceremonial fashion. We view the substantive separation of church and state as a means of protecting both, along with a protection of the rights of the individual.
Immigration, in pre-WW2 days, was usually a question of assimilation. By and large, the immigrants would adopt the values of the new country over the course of a very few generations and much of the remaining cultural traditions would manifest on a more ceremonial level. Post WW2, assimilation has been less readily accomplished.
Husar, you cite the salad metaphor -- which is at least more likely than the melting pot, since the resultant homogeneity of that metaphor was never possible. But the limitation on that is it isn't just a case of different holiday traditions or having access to different cuisines. The real problem is, absent assimilation or at least cultural hybridity, that some fairly important values are incommensurate -- and that sort of thing does not meld well at all. The salad metaphor works only if all the elements are edible. Where it is a choice of palatability, you simply pick and choose -- but an element in the salad that could cause harm? Different problem.
I am not going to be provoked if you call me a liar, a racist or a criminal, I have stepped in things that are more interesting than you. And the ground is pretty low.
Provoke?
The intention is not to provoke, merely to illustrate reality.
Montmorency
09-19-2016, 20:50
No. Syncretism and multiculturalism are distinct. Multiculturalism persists far beyond the former. Insofar as even the hard rights of the world (outside of the massively multi-cultural SE Asia and sub-Saharan Africa) still shy away from "blood" or racial nationalism, linguistic nationalism is the global norm. And that's all that America has really accomplished. Without the English language and the long arm of the federal government and the "events" it organizes and participates in, America is still very much a nationally-fragmented structure.
What do you mean?
Humans interact, don't they? The only way to separate cultures is main violence, and absent that there is multiculturalism, with all its tensions.
Provoke?
The intention is not to provoke, merely to illustrate reality.
But of course
Grow up.
My good fellow, if you take the Brexit topic can you describe your attitude there to people who were simply telling lies?
Would you be addressing what had been claimed in the discussion or just calling names?
boots- I mean legs found another nazi, take a few cocktails now that you are in argentina
boots- I mean legs found another nazi, take a few cocktails now that you are in argentina
In addition to being a racist are you just the local forum troll?
It certainly seems that way.
The only way to separate cultures is main violence, and absent that there is multiculturalism, with all its tensions.
Not really, self-segregation is a strong force. Even within cultures, it could seem:
It’s a chicken and egg scenario – do people end up agreeing with their neighbours because they move, or because they’re influenced by where they’re living in the first place?
To find out, Motyl sifted through data from over a million US residents who had taken the implicit association test, an online survey which attempts to uncover those thoughts which are outside your conscious awareness, such as racial prejudice.
He was only interested in three things: where respondents currently lived, where they had lived the longest and their political ideology. Next he compared how the latter differed from the dominant views in these areas.
As it turns out, ideological misfits are significantly more likely to move – roughly eight out of 10, compared to five out of 10 conformists. Further, among those who leave, their new postcode is much more likely to be a stronghold for their own views.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160823-how-modern-life-is-destroying-democracy
In addition to being a racist are you just the local forum troll?
It certainly seems that way.
I only troll you. You are also the only one who calls me a racist because uhhhhhhhhh well because
Montmorency
09-20-2016, 15:08
Exactly - think of it as an emulsion. The various substances will clump together by their own properties - but they will still be swimming against each other, being all suspended in the same solution.
What would contradict my point is if the people moving were all moving to isolated, self-sustaining communes or becoming hermits. But no, they generally move around more explicitly for work or retirement, both of which require significant interaction with multiple demographics. Now retirement (note not simply assisted care, just retirement, typically into municipalities with majority-elderly populations) is a more interesting case for us because it often results in "aged communities" of (for now mostly white) senior citizens congregating to live out their retirements. Perhaps there are social differences between communities developing around retirement and more mixed residential areas centered around commute to employment or otherwise entertainments and leisure activities.
Excerpts from the concluding chapter of Senior Power or Senior Peril: Aged Communities and American Society in the Twenty-First Century (https://www.amazon.com/Senior-Power-Peril-Communities-Twenty-First/dp/1439911339):
The aged context actually fosters a number of
unique political attitudes and behaviors, ensuring a distinct political
culture in locales with concentrations of older adults. This political
culture includes higher levels of political knowledge, less political efficacy,
more support for safety-net policies, and not exceptional levels
of turnout for elections among older-adult residents.
In this book, I have spent much time and effort on answering the
question of whether there are differences in political attitudes and
behaviors in aged communities that cannot be attributed simply to
the age or some other individual characteristic of residents but result
from the overwhelming presence of older-adult residents in the local
population. The answers to this question are quite consequential for
local and national politics as the Baby Boomers move into retirement
age, providing a picture of either pockets of senior activism and power
or retreatism and powerlessness all over the United States.
First, aged locales are probably places with increased opportunities
for political discussion. Measures were not ideal for measuring discussion
levels. However, we know that the increased opportunities are
present, given the testimony of the residents of The Villages and the
numbers of meeting places for seniors per capita that are available in
aged communities. We can also be quite confident that aged communities
are places with a high density of political resources and information,
owing to the higher rate of senior centers in such places. This
finding may indicate that further concentration of resources likely contribute
to the accessibility of aged cognitive content for residents of all
ages. Although the measures of engagement were not ideal for the
analysis, there is also evidence that political engagement is higher
among older adults in the aged locales.
older adults living among their peers have greater
levels of political knowledge than do seniors living elsewhere. The
association is particularly strong for knowledge related to senior issues
such as Social Security and prescription coverage. However, this relationship
is not apparent for the residents of very advanced age.
Chapter 5 provides evidence for a senior citizenry with cohesive
and supportive preferences for safety-net policies when they reside in
the aged communities. They are more supportive of policies that push
for a wider safety net than are their peers living in other places without
an aged context. These findings make sense, given their greater knowledge
of senior-related issues. In addition, the aged context appears to
have an impact on the attitudes toward safety-net policies of the
youngest residents in aged communities. They are also more supportive
of these policies than are their peers living elsewhere.
Although knowledgeable and unified on aged-relevant issues,
senior citizens living among their peers may not actually be very efficacious
or especially active. These relationships are explored in Chapters
6 and 7. The emergent older adults in the aged communities may be
less politically efficacious than seniors living elsewhere. The efficacy
attitudes of young adult residents are also related to the aged context,
as is the case with their attitudes toward safety-net policies. However,
the consequences may be quite negative, given the lower levels of political
efficacy for young people no matter where they live.
Living in an aged community also has some impact on the political
participation of its older residents, although there is a mixed bag of
evidence. Results for 2000 were consistent with the lower participation
expectations for aged community residents, but results for 2008 were
quite the opposite. Older adults may have the potential for exerting
exceptional participation and force but only in certain circumstances.
However, most of the time, aged places are not necessarily critical centers
of participation, as many people have supposed.
Chapter 2 discusses the two main types of
aged communities (active retired and small town) and the different
factors leading to their skewed population distributions. By accounting
for the size of the population, the median household income of each
community, and whether the local population is increasing or decreasing,
we gain confidence that results from the analyses are due to social
effects related to the aged population of the community rather than
differences in the populations that make up these two types of aged
locales. Past work on the aged context has paid little attention to the
differences between aging communities and aging individuals. The
scholarship of the politics of aging and especially journalism on
the subject too often assume that older adults belong to one massive
indistinct group.
different effects depending on whether an older adult is an
emergent older adult or an adult of very advanced age.
I also examine the youngest voters in society in a few chapters of
the book because this group is often still politically unsettled and only
beginning to establish political predispositions. Past contextual research
led to the hypothesis that the politics of minorities within the population
may be influenced by the politics of those with the greatest numbers.
For the current work, the overwhelming presence of older adults
in aged communities has made an impact on the younger generation
of residents living among them by influencing their attitudes toward
safety-net policies and their political efficacy attitudes—political characteristics
that may be influenced without much direct contact but by
simply living in a place with a certain aged cognitive content.
Many scholars have made
the logical leap, supposing that concentrations of socially interactive
older adults who are generally politically knowledgeable, efficacious,
tuned-in, and able should result in a politically exceptional and powerful
geriatric populace.
This work supports and adds to the less sensational but incredibly
important work that tells a different story. In the aged communities, we
find a distinctive mix of high political knowledge and low efficacy with
unimpressive turnout levels. It is possible that older adults have the
ability to remain engaged and current with political information but
lack the level of physical capability that might encourage increased
political activity in aged communities.
Physical challenges faced by older adults may very well contribute
to this disenchantment with politics, but it is also likely that aged communities
encourage a retreatist and politically pessimistic outlook
among many residents. In many of the communities, there are plenty
of leisure activities to take up energy that do not directly involve politics
So older residents of the aged communities are usually not forming
politically cohesive and powerful blocs of voters.
The results in this book present a case for the capability of older
adults and their potential to become a powerful force in local and
national politics when they are motivated by a threat to their livelihood.
Other work has shown this to be reality in many communities in
the right mix of circumstances. We see this happening frequently in a
pluralistic society in which many groups exhibit high levels of political
skills and resources.
So far the case makes it sound as though elderly communities become both insular (with respect to the mobility of elders themselves) and assimilating in key respects. These respects are not found to be based on individual or demographic differences, nor on the geographic context of the communities, but rather on the "aged context" (being around a bunch of retirees all the time) itself. It also appears that these places are not entirely self-selecting for culture (re: newcomers), but do indeed have assimilating effects on elderly/aged newcomers themselves, which may partly be a function of insularity. Also as quoted above, all these things stand in contrast to characteristics of the elderly distributed more evenly among the people.
However, it's also important to keep in mind that for now most such concentrations in America are overwhelmingly white, which must definitely affect our judgments on cultural assimilation.
In terms of our discussion, the relevance has to be somewhere in the principles. What I see is that homogeneity and insularity would not be enough to reduce multiculturalism, absent some convergent cultural impulse affecting all members/residents simultaneously. In other words, way of life. For instance then, one test would be to see what happens to multiculturalism if you pick out farmers from several dozen cultures around the world and, I don't know, colonize them in Siberia. The results of the book quoted may have us expect a significant degree of cultural convergence that would then exert on later arrivals. Such an effect might be related to the growth of American national culture in the early period, with the limitation of massive divergence in ways of life in that context.
Seamus Fermanagh
09-20-2016, 15:09
Okay, Beskar, it is time. This thread and any thread on a related theme for a week or two would be my rec.
Montmorency
I don't see how that relates to the original statement that multiculturalism is inevitable.
With globalisation likely to keep exerting its effects far into the distant future, to me it seems the opposite is 'inevitable': global cultural assimilation (homogenisation). A process that, thanks to media, does not really require the movement of people across borders.
Montmorency
09-24-2016, 18:37
Globalization introduces a wider flow to goods and people, but it absolutely does not mean that geographically-distant cultures will assimilate to each other. As per inevitability, neither will adjacent cultures by default. If you look at Western soft power, you will see that consumption of cultural products is not anywhere close to related to assimilation.
Unless you have a one-world government that continuously and uniformly redistributes populations around the world for the purposes of cohabitation and breeding...
But let's leave out this planet and activities thereon, and consider that other science fiction trope of interstellar colonization. Would cultures of planets assimilate? How? By my notion of "way of life"? In what sense that doesn't assume identical worlds or standards for settlement? Let's be honest, here or there or anywhere, even communication reliant upon teleportation technology would not suddenly replace the existing social logics.
HopAlongBunny
09-25-2016, 01:54
https://youtu.be/MlYnWTrDSEc
Montmorency
09-25-2016, 02:02
I don't like music. What does it mean-mean?
Globalization introduces a wider flow to goods and people, but it absolutely does not mean that geographically-distant cultures will assimilate to each other. As per inevitability, neither will adjacent cultures by default. If you look at Western soft power, you will see that consumption of cultural products is not anywhere close to related to assimilation.
Unless you have a one-world government that continuously and uniformly redistributes populations around the world for the purposes of cohabitation and breeding...
But let's leave out this planet and activities thereon, and consider that other science fiction trope of interstellar colonization. Would cultures of planets assimilate? How? By my notion of "way of life"? In what sense that doesn't assume identical worlds or standards for settlement? Let's be honest, here or there or anywhere, even communication reliant upon teleportation technology would not suddenly replace the existing social logics.
I think you are fundamentally wrong. Given how cultural changes spread within modern countries (think back the last several decades and centuries), I don't think face-to-face interactions have to be in every link of the chain.
Things like (for example) laws, news and impactful or popular pieces of fiction both plant seeds of and drive forward processes of change that in sum become significant.
Most of the things that have an impact on culture intranationally also exist internationally. Just like you have intranational laws, you have international laws. News often go global, as do music, movies and TV series. This means that a lot of the factors that influence how people view the world are partially synchronised globally.
The concepts of who are in- and out-group are naturally also directly impacted by such things. Whereas centuries ago a big natural disaster would go unnoticed by many or most people, this is now typically an international news item that encourages sympathy from a global audience, regardless of cultural background. Political news can also go global and arguments for and against something can also relatively easily be synchronised globally, which over time leads to similar debates with similar arguments in dissimilar cultures.
To me, it is inconceivable that globalisation in its current format does not lead to long term global cultural synchronisation, convergence and assimilation; particularly when you factor in that people also physically move across borders (and interbreed), and not just ideas and media.
Montmorency
09-25-2016, 17:58
Given how cultural changes spread within modern countries (think back the last several decades and centuries), I don't think face-to-face interactions have to be in every link of the chain.
?? I don't understand.
Anyway, with face-to-face interactions you can have intercultural, and subsequent intra-cultural resulting, which is just as significant one way or another.
Most of the things that have an impact on culture intranationally also exist internationally. Just like you have intranational laws, you have international laws. News often go global, as do music, movies and TV series. This means that a lot of the factors that influence how people view the world are partially synchronised globally.
I think you have it the other way around. International laws and disseminated products do not mutually assimilate consumers, but are themselves assimilated to the unique contexts and standards of a given culture.
Whereas centuries ago a big natural disaster would go unnoticed by many or most people
This is really due to both new concepts and broadcast technology. It allows compartmentalization when exposed, so that a concrete event is not just 'bad times', and individuals who would never become aware of this event stand to at least hear about it.
which over time leads to similar debates with similar arguments in dissimilar cultures.
Really? See above. And if anything like that is visible, it will be due more to the traditional modes of intellectual elites going abroad to study and fomenting new arguments and ideologies once they return. In the terms you specifically denote, I do not think you can even hope to point out a corroborating trend.
To me, it is inconceivable that globalisation in its current format does not lead to long term global cultural synchronisation, convergence and assimilation; particularly when you factor in that people also physically move across borders (and interbreed), and not just ideas and media.
I think that's a serious mistake, unless it comes to the point that all regions become lightly-urbanized or more, English farmers settle in the new Afghan countryside and intermarry with New Guineans, etc.
?? I don't understand.
How do you suppose cultural attitudes change? If at some point many or most people in a country believed in witches; and then, at some point, most do not - how did that come about? Was there an unbroken chain from one end of the country the other consisting of people telling people their acquaintances "I doubt witches exist"? I presume not, and that once the state stopped prosecuting people for witchcraft, people's beliefs started to follow suit (or because of some other centralised process, like a religious decree).
I think you have it the other way around. International laws and disseminated products do not mutually assimilate consumers, but are themselves assimilated to the unique contexts and standards of a given culture.
Not sure what you are saying here, but the idea is not that any culture or viewpoint dominates any other, but that factors that drive cultural change become the same in many different cultures.
This is really due to both new concepts and broadcast technology.
Naturally. Technological development is one of the most important contributors to stronger globalisation.
Really? See above. And if anything like that is visible, it will be due more to the traditional modes of intellectual elites going abroad to study and fomenting new arguments and ideologies once they return. In the terms you specifically denote, I do not think you can even hope to point out a corroborating trend.
If we were in the 1800s, maybe I'd agree. Today, many 'regular' people become activists and are often part of international organisations. Intellectuals aren't really necessary today for this kind of spread of ideas because more ordinary people take part in it, too.
Finding trends is inherently difficult for a topic like this. Just selecting time scales is tricky, and of course depends on the theory being tested.
I think that's a serious mistake, unless it comes to the point that all regions become lightly-urbanized or more, English farmers settle in the new Afghan countryside and intermarry with New Guineans, etc.
What is one large obstacle facing English farmers who want to settle in the Afghan countryside? Security. In 200 years from now on, Afghanistan could have turned into one of the safer countries on Earth for all we know. At that point, an English farmer might well settle on the Afghani countryside with their New Guinean partner. I don't see why not. Already today people from very different cultures separated by continents marry and settle on the countryside here or there (though typically in the home country of either). What is needed for your scenario is first and foremost that the security situation in Afghanistan improves by a certain amount.
I am not sure what you mean by 'lightly-urbanized'; Internet-access and the dissemination of knowledge is nowadays less dependent on urbanity than ever before. In fact; where I come from, access to high-speed Internet via optical fibre is often better on the countryside than in cities due to issues with distributing the physical fibre in densely populated areas and (perhaps) the fact that DSL performs much better over shorter distances than longer ones.
Montmorency
09-26-2016, 22:29
How do you suppose cultural attitudes change? If at some point many or most people in a country believed in witches; and then, at some point, most do not - how did that come about? Was there an unbroken chain from one end of the country the other consisting of people telling people their acquaintances "I doubt witches exist"? I presume not, and that once the state stopped prosecuting people for witchcraft, people's beliefs started to follow suit (or because of some other centralised process, like a religious decree).
Kind of a strawman. In the first place, people had many varying beliefs about witches, and these circulated in a stable fashion. Other changes in society, least of all lack of prosecution, led to de-emphasis and finally abrogation or neutralization of beliefs in witchcraft.
Not sure what you are saying here, but the idea is not that any culture or viewpoint dominates any other, but that factors that drive cultural change become the same in many different cultures.
Yes, I said that's wrong, and moreover any factors that drive cultural change in similar ways across cultures do not develop as such but simply exist as a fact of the nature of culture.
Today, many 'regular' people become activists and are often part of international organisations.
"Local" people assimilate international ideas to local contexts. Internationally-minded intellectuals are the ones who spread, among each other, the discourses with which we're more familiar. This mistake you make is one of the factors that led many to misinterpret the events of the "Arab Spring". A selection bias.
What is one large obstacle facing English farmers who want to settle in the Afghan countryside? Security.
That obstacle is beside the point. Security is not an obstacle to their settlement in the United States, yet that hasn't been a trend for a 150 years, a time when the United States was much less safe.
What is needed for your scenario is first and foremost
As I said, I believe the first and foremost necessity would be top-down allocation to drive the movement and interaction of people in such a way.
I am not sure what you mean by 'lightly-urbanized'
More specifically to the Afghan context, I see their geography and demographic distribution as entailing much of the countryside become dotted with interconnected small towns around a handful of major urban centers. In Scandinavia, it's simply a matter of fact that the south and coasts carry most of the population, so infrastructure through mountains and tundra is more relevant to the transportation of goods than directly connecting and servicing residents. This doesn't have bearing to the larger topic.
Kind of a strawman. In the first place, people had many varying beliefs about witches, and these circulated in a stable fashion. Other changes in society, least of all lack of prosecution, led to de-emphasis and finally abrogation or neutralization of beliefs in witchcraft.
Not so much a straw man as an explanation aimed at your "??", accompanied by a question for which model(s) you are using for cultural evolution.
So, would you maintain that the decline in the belief in witches and supernatural creatures was by and large not driven by any centralised process - i.e. not driven by science or formal education? What exactly caused the decline?
Yes, I said that's wrong, and moreover any factors that drive cultural change in similar ways across cultures do not develop as such but simply exist as a fact of the nature of culture.
I am not sure what you are saying here, so I'll bring up a specific, theoretical example:
Person in a culture with little focus on animal welfare happens upon the web page for an organisation for homeless dogs in a culture with much focus on animal welfare. Person empathises with the organisation due to (I presume) an innate function of humans to empathise with other beings, such as dogs (and ugly (http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141017-eight-ugly-animals-we-should-save) ones). Person then creates a local version or branch of this organisation and gets media attention. Through this and similar organisations (that eventually start to pop up), the attitudes regarding animal welfare in person's culture starts to approach the attitudes in the other culture (as it may become considered generally more advanced and/or authoritative in person's culture for this particular topic).
One of the things that is underlying my prediction for cultural convergence is the (presumed) fact that most humans - regardless of culture - run a similar operating system in their minds (which can support software requiring empathy, jealousy and so on), so to speak. So in this scenario, the original organisation was created because of the same empathy function that caused the new organisation to be founded in the other culture. The reason why the organisation did not already exist in the other culture could be more or less arbitrary (like the fact that any trend typically starts at one specific or a limited number of places), or that the original organisation was started in a wealthier country where people are more likely to feel that they have the time and resources needed to dedicate themselves to such a cause.
"Local" people assimilate international ideas to local contexts.
Exactly. The ideas are not supposed survive as identical copies in individual cultures, but to pull the cultures in question in a similar direction. The more factors you have pulling in a similar direction, the less difference there will be between cultures when it comes to the adaptation the original ('pure') ideas or new ideas will require; as the other parts of the cultures that required this adaption have also changed - in a similar direction.
That obstacle is beside the point. Security is not an obstacle to their settlement in the United States, yet that hasn't been a trend for a 150 years, a time when the United States was much less safe.
As I said, I believe the first and foremost necessity would be top-down allocation to drive the movement and interaction of people in such a way.
I thought of your comment as "why isn't this happening already" rather than "I think this needs to happen first", so never mind.
More specifically to the Afghan context, I see their geography and demographic distribution as entailing much of the countryside become dotted with interconnected small towns around a handful of major urban centers. In Scandinavia, it's simply a matter of fact that the south and coasts carry most of the population, so infrastructure through mountains and tundra is more relevant to the transportation of goods than directly connecting and servicing residents. This doesn't have bearing to the larger topic.
But why would this light urbanisation be necessary?
Montmorency
09-27-2016, 17:30
by any centralised process - i.e. not driven by science or formal education?
By definition these would not be centrally-derived effects unless it was inculcated dictat that "there are no such things as witches; you must not credit their existence". But largely it was other facts of the organization of society, especially changes in political structure and in urbanization, that caused de-emphasis in prevalence of the ideas. They just weren't as useful to apply to the world, and thus became used less often. Science and education were parallel, not driving, factors.
Person in a culture with little focus on animal welfare happens upon the web page for an organisation for homeless dogs in a culture with much focus on animal welfare. Person empathises with the organisation due to (I presume) an innate function of humans to empathise with other beings, such as dogs (and ugly ones). Person then creates a local version or branch of this organisation and gets media attention. Through this and similar organisations (that eventually start to pop up), the attitudes regarding animal welfare in person's culture starts to approach the attitudes in the other culture (as it may become considered generally more advanced and/or authoritative in person's culture for this particular topic).
Be careful, as now you are shifting the focus, and the question. For all intents and purposes, we could take these persons, one apathetic to animal welfare (as philosophy), and another being member of a animal-welfare organization, and have them be neighbors in adjacent apartment or other units. In other words, there is already a considerable cultural scaffold and milieu that abets interpretation in-fact and in content. To put it in the terms we were using earlier, of actual distant acculturation, then we see that it really does not work in this way across the world. Part of the reason is also that cultural elements do not stand alone, but interconnect and reinforce each other. For example, taking conspiracy theorists from the other thread, giving evidence against or wholesale alternatives to one belief or set of beliefs rarely works because beliefs will both require and compensate for each other, leading to conservation until there is some critical point from within the perspective of that system, and not from a perspective outside it.
This idea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurathian_bootstrap) is a relevant one.
One of the things that is underlying my prediction for cultural convergence is the (presumed) fact that most humans - regardless of culture - run a similar operating system in their minds (which can support software requiring empathy, jealousy and so on), so to speak. So in this scenario, the original organisation was created because of the same empathy function that caused the new organisation to be founded in the other culture.
But this is precisely what creates such diversity in the first place. Even clonal organisms will diverge wildly when placed in different environments.
The reason why the organisation did not already exist in the other culture could be more or less arbitrary (like the fact that any trend typically starts at one specific or a limited number of places), or that the original organisation was started in a wealthier country where people are more likely to feel that they have the time and resources needed to dedicate themselves to such a cause.
No, not arbitrary! Geography and climate are precisely what will generate the bulk of difference between cultures - and that's before we begin to take exchange into account.
Exactly. The ideas are not supposed survive as identical copies in individual cultures, but to pull the cultures in question in a similar direction. The more factors you have pulling in a similar direction, the less difference there will be between cultures when it comes to the adaptation the original ('pure') ideas or new ideas will require; as the other parts of the cultures that required this adaption have also changed - in a similar direction.
Then you would need to introduce material factors, as simply pointing out exposure to culture will not entail (often the contrary) that there will be pull in a "similar direction".
But why would this light urbanisation be necessary?
Simply as a function of transport/communications infrastructure, and to permit more than haphazard growth of population or polity.
By definition these would not be centrally-derived effects unless it was inculcated dictat that "there are no such things as witches; you must not credit their existence". But largely it was other facts of the organization of society, especially changes in political structure and in urbanization, that caused de-emphasis in prevalence of the ideas. They just weren't as useful to apply to the world, and thus became used less often. Science and education were parallel, not driving, factors.
Science is typically produced at centres (cities, institutions) by a small amount of people (relative to the size of the population), hence centralised. I presume the changes in political structure referred to here were also dictated from central authorities.
Urbanisation does not explain how beliefs in supernatural creatures also disappeared from the countrysides. These trends ultimately manifested themselves both in rural and urban populations with little long-term difference. Yet the physical flow of people tended to be mostly in one direction: from countryside to city, no?
Be careful, as now you are shifting the focus, and the question. For all intents and purposes, we could take these persons, one apathetic to animal welfare (as philosophy), and another being member of a animal-welfare organization, and have them be neighbors in adjacent apartment or other units. In other words, there is already a considerable cultural scaffold and milieu that abets interpretation in-fact and in content. To put it in the terms we were using earlier, of actual distant acculturation, then we see that it really does not work in this way across the world. Part of the reason is also that cultural elements do not stand alone, but interconnect and reinforce each other. For example, taking conspiracy theorists from the other thread, giving evidence against or wholesale alternatives to one belief or set of beliefs rarely works because beliefs will both require and compensate for each other, leading to conservation until there is some critical point from within the perspective of that system, and not from a perspective outside it.
This idea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurathian_bootstrap) is a relevant one.
Not sure what you are talking about here. The scenario like the one I created is precisely something I had in mind right from the start. In a typical modern culture (at the least), you can expect plurality of opinion, even polarisation. What I have in mind in this context, is that common opinions (polarised or not) about topics should become similar between cultures over time, as ideas flow back and forth. Initial local versions of an ideology or movement might be very different from the ones found in cultures that inspired their creations, however: more extreme in some respects, less extreme in others; maybe entirely lacking some parts.
Of course different elements of a culture can be heavily dependent on each other. In this context, having multiple factors simultaneously pushing for change is important - and, indeed, the right (relevant) factors all acting simultaneously. In the longer run, I would anticipate that this would happen at some point (simple probability; it may be necessary to assume that older cultural influences do not revert or drift too much in the meantime), where the elements that depend on each other are all pulled in the same direction simultaneously.
But this is precisely what creates such diversity in the first place. Even clonal organisms will diverge wildly when placed in different environments.
What globalisation is doing, is to make parts of the environment more similar for all cultures affected by it. The factors that drive cultures in similar directions are of course in sum supposed to make up an important part of this environment per definition (the environment being the collection of all things that influence culture).
Geography and climate are precisely what will generate the bulk of difference between cultures [...]
Do you have sources that back you this up? I mean, the food eaten and which clothes worn when should be expected to differ from place to place, but cultures that already exist do span across significantly different geographies and climates.
Then you would need to introduce material factors, as simply pointing out exposure to culture will not entail (often the contrary) that there will be pull in a "similar direction".
I am primarily not thinking of just exposure to other cultures. The factors in question are supposed to penetrate into and/or stay embedded in the culture (at least for some time). So, if an ideology spreads to a new culture, I model its members as a group that can be almost entirely independent of people in other cultures over shorter time scales; but because most of the ideology remains very similar across cultures, the contribution to the local public debate from followers of the ideology will also be very similar across cultures.
Simply as a function of transport/communications infrastructure, and to permit more than haphazard growth of population or polity.
Afraid I still fail to see the necessity.
AE Bravo
09-29-2016, 20:47
http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/berlin/fluechtling-bei-messerangriff-erschossen-24816102?originalReferrer=https://t.co/EbOuBkQZYz
Her dad tried to attack the rapist but the police shot him. To flee terror and getting raped and losing her father in Germany from some migrant. Tragic.
I hope he gets his shit kicked in in jail.
You couldn't make it up, 'refugees' from Marocco get almost 2000 euro pocket money and a free ticket for the plane once they are naturally denied asylum-status, do that twice a year and you make twice the anual salary you do there. Except for the occupied area (western sahara) nobody likes to mentions because uhmmmmmm, well free palestine now schnapps!!! Marocco is a relatively free and safe country why not send them back immediatly, with only what they came with.
You couldn't make it up, 'refugees' from Marocco get almost 2000 euro pocket money and a free ticket for the plane once they are naturally denied asylum-status, do that twice a year and you make twice the anual salary you do there. Except for the occupied area (western sahara) nobody likes to mentions because uhmmmmmm, well free palestine now schnapps!!! Marocco is a relatively free and safe country why not send them back immediatly, with only what they came with.
Maybe the development aid we send there is reduced accordingly?
Maybe the development aid we send there is reduced accordingly?
That could be an option I guess but as always harms the wrong ones, development aid isn't aid anyway it's extemely cynical. Nah,send them back.
lol that aren't children http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/15/calais-children-expected-in-britain-within-days/ UK what are you doing to yourself
Children are classified as under the age of 18. So a 17 year old would technically be a child.
Children are classified as under the age of 18. So a 17 year old would technically be a child.
Sure but they are much older, anyone can see that. Turkish maffia is making millions forging pasports
Seamus Fermanagh
10-21-2016, 18:16
Sure but they are much older, anyone can see that. Turkish maffia is making millions forging pasports
Not exactly unusual when refugees are massed together. Market economics in action.
Very big lol, this 16 year old must have gone througn a lot http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2016/10/hey_een_16jarige_immigrant_te.html#comments
Nobody who thinks hmmmmmmm no he's not really sixteen.
obviously 12, maybe younger.
manmanman
ghostofxmaspast
10-26-2016, 14:45
Sure but they are much older, anyone can see that. Turkish maffia is making millions forging pasports
Forged passports aren't needed. In fact they're better off with no passport or ID at all if they make it to UK.
And still the question which no politician wants to answer: If they want asylum and are fleeing oppression or persecution, then what is wrong with all of the several EU countries (including France) they had to go through in order to get to the UK?
There is a big difference between people genuinely fleeing for their lives and economic migrants. I know which type are in Calais. Most people know which type they are and what they are, but it's not politically correct to state that.
The UK government will allow these "unaccompanied children" for political reasons and nothing more, not out of kindness and not because they truly believe they are who they say they are. They may well be criminals, but that's someone else's problem.
Never thought I'd agree with fragony, but it's a farce and has nothing whatsoever to do with the welfare of migrants. It will simply cause even more people - in particular unaccompanied minors - to make more perilous journeys. Win, win for the people smugglers.
The invisible hand of the migration market always knows best.
To question this market dynamic for the social health of one's own nation is called National Socialism. :clown:
Everybody was in favor (as shown by the market success of the model and the lack of complaints) of capitalist globalization when it just meant Indian children and Chinese women would be enslaved to produce cheaper pullovers, what has changed?
rory_20_uk
10-27-2016, 21:52
Everyone loves it when they are winning. The West were for Capitalism and the rest aren't really important or otherwise aspire to it.
Same with immigration. It's fine on our - or just kept as a nice theoretical "Champagne Leftist" view where of course we should help people - and we do by liking an occasional facebook page, giving Oxfam vouchers for christmas presents and sending off a few blankets. Having four immigrants living in one's summer house? Oh, of course it is a good idea... just not... now.
~:smoking:
Silly you that is what others should do, you know the type, live in a 99% white neighbourhood, kids go to a 99% white school. The whole mood changes if it gets too close
"obviously 12, maybe younger." I think this was the picture of the translator, if it is the same one published in the Sun Newspapers here in UK :laugh4:
"obviously 12, maybe younger." I think this was the picture of the translator, if it is the same one published in the Sun Newspapers here in UK :laugh4:
Nah he's a sixteen year old, he just aged very fast because of all the hardships, throwing all women from the boat eventually gets to you no, I'd cry. Women and children first means something different to them but it can't be nice to watch
At least some refugee camps in Lebanon do not appear to be in a particularly bad shape.. Comments from a family settled in Karasjok (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karasjok), located in Norway's northernmost mainland county, and who now wants to go back to Lebanon:
The Ibrahim family emphasises that people in Karasjok - neighbours, the municipality and the teachers - are very nice. But the family only speaks Arabic and feels isolated.
Familien Ibrahim understreker at folk i Karasjok: naboer, kommunen og lærerne er veldig bra. Men familien snakker kun arabisk og føler seg alene
– The sun doesn't show up, we haven't seen the sun for several months, the Ibrahim parents say.
They arrived as refugees and were flown in from Lebanon, but they had no idea where in Norway they were to be settled. They chose to come because of their seven children. To give them an education.
– The kids aren't doing very well here. They want to go back to their tent in Lebanon, where they can play outside in the sun the entire day with relatives and friends. Here it is cold and dark, a sad Mohammed Id Ibrahim adds as a closing remark.
– Sola dukker ikke opp, vi har ikke sett sola på flere måneder, forteller ekteparet Ibrahim fortvilt.
De kom som flyktninger - og ble fløyet inn fra Libanon, men de ante ikke hvor i Norge de skulle bosettes. Det var på grunn av de syv barna de valgte å komme. For å gi dem en utdanning.
– Barna har det ikke bra her. De vil tilbake til teltet i Libanon, hvor de kan leke ute i sola hele dagen med slektninger og venner. Her er det kaldt og mørkt, avslutter en trist familiefar Mohammed Id Ibrahim.
https://www.nrk.no/norge/langt-flere-migranter-og-flyktninger-vil-forlate-europa-1.13361920
Seamus Fermanagh
02-08-2017, 16:23
This kind of comment won't help Norwegian tourism much....
Well, in a few months they will have all the sunshine they could ask for.
This kind of comment won't help Norwegian tourism much....
I wouldn't want to live in Karasjok, either. It's what you could meaningfully call the coldest town in Norway, as it holds the all-time Norwegian record for the lowest temperature at -51.4°C. The average (http://www.yr.no/place/Norway/Finnmark/Karasjok/Karasjok/statistics.html?spr=eng) temperature for a normal January is -17.1°C, which is about as cold the coldest outdoor temperature I've ever personally experienced, and I've spent a winter north of the polar circle.
Well, in a few months they will have all the sunshine they could ask for.
They'd also get all the mosquitos they could ask for, as far as I understand it.
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