IMMIGRATION thread

[wooly_mammoth]

Meh, here's a read I found on the matter (http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape). Make of it what you will. It basically points out to a corellation between increase of criminal activities over time since Sweden became a multicultural country. What I'd like is a clear classification of the perpetrators of sex crimes as function of ethnic origin, but I can't find one. If the article above is accurate, it points out to a number of sex-crimes commited by immigrants of african or middle-east origin that were tagged as "swedes".

In either case, to my simple mind "multiculturalism" is one of the dumbest ideas of the present age. The average human is too stupid and narrow-minded to be able to get along with "different" individuals.

[Fragony]

That's true, new generations are Sweish by default in the statistics, they also do that here in the Netherlands

[Leet Eriksson]

Pape, I already explained and linked to BRÅ.

What more do you want?

You threw a link in the thread, and didn't really do much effort to explain where in the link it proves your claims.

[Kadagar_AV]

You threw a link in the thread, and didn't really do much effort to explain where in the link it proves your claims.

BRÅ (Brottsförebyggande Rådet) is the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention, an agency under the Ministry of Justice...

There you can find basically all info you want (except for searching for pure immigrant statistics, they stopped publish that when racists started using their numbers).

I warn you though, the page is hell to search... You'd almost think they do their best to hide some statistics...

So yeah, that is the source info.

There are pages that help people summarize the statistics, but if I link those you'd just slam me for posting "hateful racist blogs", aight?

*sigh*

:wall:

[AE Bravo]

Lots of misdirected hatred here. Only people you should be blaming for the Arab refuges is Saudi f'ing Arabia, not the refugees themselves. It was our foreign policy in the Gulf states and the US's total willingness to take the same direction and enhance it that got yall into this mess. We sent you the Iraqis, Saudi and Qatar's support of "moderate" Syrian opposition sent you the Syrians, and the Yemenis are well on their way I imagine. This was thanks to you also, take responsibility for once..

I gotta say I've always had respect for the fact that most Euros (mostly from NED and Sweden) I've talked to are so open about their prejudice just like us. That in itself shows how both cultures are totally uncool for each other at the present time. Shame only the needy and clingy to their culture types make their way over there. If you leave Arabia, leave your Arabness here and stop embarrassing us.

Wish we could make a deal. Lets kick all the white people out of Dubai cus we've obviously been treating these middle class thunderkunts alot better than you've been treating not so expensive living refuges. Sex on the beach, 'rape me' miniskirts getting Pakistanis all charged up, prostitution, DUIs. This is what has been offered from these immigrants and expats, you don't see me generalizing even though I damn well could because none of these crimes has ever been committed by a native.

Oil Arabs - you come to us, we don't come to you :2thumbsup:

Now stop your uppity bs generalization OP cus shit goes both ways. You know where the money at. Peace.

[Papewaio]

Pape, I already explained and linked to BRÅ.

What more do you want?

Always good to put the link in the OP and explain who the Three Letter Acronym is if it is new. Puts the information in a much better context. And yes based on that site alone it appears that crime has increased. Is it poorly established multiculturalism, economic doldrums or a combination? I assume the first, but to assume is to make an...

=][=
As for multiculturalism always failing because of the differences. I live in Australia, was born in Fiji to a Welsh mum and Kiwi dad who is of Swedish and English descent, and I'm married to a lady born in Taiwan. Australia is generally on the higher end of country well being statistics yet a quarter of us were born overseas and even more of us are second/third generation.

As for genetics just remember man and woman are the two most differen races on the planet.

[Kadagar_AV]

Always good to put the link in the OP and explain who the Three Letter Acronym is if it is new. Puts the information in a much better context. And yes based on that site alone it appears that crime has increased. Is it poorly established multiculturalism, economic doldrums or a combination? I assume the first, but to assume is to make an...

=][=
As for multiculturalism always failing because of the differences. I live in Australia, was born in Fiji to a Welsh mum and Kiwi dad who is of Swedish and English descent, and I'm married to a lady born in Taiwan. Australia is generally on the higher end of country well being statistics yet a quarter of us were born overseas and even more of us are second/third generation.

As for genetics just remember man and woman are the two most differen races on the planet.

* Australia shipped back illegal refugees coming by boat per automatic and ended the problem... No?

* Last I checked, you needed to be able to show you could support yourself to get entrance, it's not like you have gypsy beggars every 5 meters in your bigger cities, is it?

* You expect immigrants to become Australians instead of bending over.

* Your refugees are East Asians with east Asian intelligence. Try some Somalis mate.

__________________________________________________________________________
Don't compare incomparable situations.



*yes, I should have sourced the OP better, it was lazy of me, with that said, am I really known to draw numbers from my behind?*

[Leet Eriksson]

BRÅ (Brottsförebyggande Rådet) is the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention, an agency under the Ministry of Justice...

There you can find basically all info you want (except for searching for pure immigrant statistics, they stopped publish that when racists started using their numbers).

I warn you though, the page is hell to search... You'd almost think they do their best to hide some statistics...

So yeah, that is the source info.

There are pages that help people summarize the statistics, but if I link those you'd just slam me for posting "hateful racist blogs", aight?

*sigh*

:wall:

You think you can throw links and throwing your arms in the air without doing homework? you claimed they're ruining your country, prove it isn't BS.

[Husar]

http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/crime_stats_oecdjan2012.pdf

Actually Australia is the rape capital of the world according to these statistics.
Why are Germany and the Netherlands so low? I thought they also accept too many immigrants?
Canada and Japan never saw any immigrants, very low rape rates. Apparently Eastern Europe is perfectly safe for women as well, they hardly accept immigrants.
Germany, Netherlands and Switzerland prove that a superior host culture can decrease rapes despite high immigration.
There is a lot we can learn here.

Why are the cases of robbery so low in Sweden if the immigrants want all the money? Given the assault rate they probably just want to beat up the natives for fun. That's pretty mean indeed. And Sweden is way too low on the punitive scale. The US are much, much harsher, a success proven by being only number 4 in rape rate.

[Kadagar_AV]

You think you can throw links and throwing your arms in the air without doing homework? you claimed they're ruining your country, prove it isn't BS.

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Troll.




http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/crime_stats_oecdjan2012.pdf

Actually Australia is the rape capital of the world according to these statistics.
Why are Germany and the Netherlands so low? I thought they also accept too many immigrants?
Canada and Japan never saw any immigrants, very low rape rates. Apparently Eastern Europe is perfectly safe for women as well, they hardly accept immigrants.
Germany, Netherlands and Switzerland prove that a superior host culture can decrease rapes despite high immigration.
There is a lot we can learn here.

Why are the cases of robbery so low in Sweden if the immigrants want all the money? Given the assault rate they probably just want to beat up the natives for fun. That's pretty mean indeed. And Sweden is way too low on the punitive scale. The US are much, much harsher, a success proven by being only number 4 in rape rate.

Now you are just rambling.

[Husar]

Now you are just rambling.

Is that your way of saying that you're sorry that Sweden isn't the rape capital after all?

[Kadagar_AV]

Is that your way of saying that you're sorry that Sweden isn't the rape capital after all?

Now you are just trolling.

REALLY Husar, sharpen up.

[Husar]

Now you are just trolling.

REALLY Husar, sharpen up.

You haven't said anything about the statistics shown.
For example why Australia has a higher statistic, do so many Africans arrive there?
Why do some other countries have far lower statistics? Why is the robbery statistic so low for Sweden?

If you avoid all this using more personal attacks, aren't you the one trolling?

[Kadagar_AV]

You haven't said anything about the statistics shown.
For example why Australia has a higher statistic, do so many Africans arrive there?
Why do some other countries have far lower statistics? Why is the robbery statistic so low for Sweden?

If you avoid all this using more personal attacks, aren't you the one trolling?

Well, there is that, that you already in this thread trolled...

* If you think Australia has a higher statistic, you do something wrong.

* Robbery statistics are low in your mind, maybe.


Really Husar, you should get a warning point for trolling.


Robbery 1987: 3939 reported.
Robbery 2011: 9719 reported. Foreigners make up roughly 70% of the accused.

*but yes, Swedes seem to have the intelligence and/or stiff upper lip to prevent robberies better than most*

[Husar]

Well, there is that, that you already in this thread trolled...

* If you think Australia has a higher statistic, you do something wrong.

* Robbery statistics are low in your mind, maybe.


Really Husar, you should get a warning point for trolling.

I posted a link with statistics, you can read it.

Instead you accuse me of making things up?
I do not just think it is higher in Australia, it is in the statistics I posted...

And then you accuse me of trolling when you can't even or don't even bother to read a simple statistic that I post?
I did not make the statistic.

How about you comment on the statistic and not on me for once?

[wooly_mammoth]

Apparently Eastern Europe is perfectly safe for women as well, they hardly accept immigrants.


Yeah, here's the problem with the statistics. If the crime doesn't get reported, it never shows up. In Romania, at least in the rural part it's still common sense that a man can beat the crap out of a woman to straighten her out and a legal complaint at the police never actually shows up (if they even have a police office to begin with). It's the same with rape, a lot of women are afraid or ashamed to file a complaint or don't even realize that they can do that. While it's not really like having rapists lurking around every corner, I'd hardly say it's a safe place for women.

[Kadagar_AV]

I posted a link with statistics, you can read it.

Instead you accuse me of making things up?
I do not just think it is higher in Australia, it is in the statistics I posted...

And then you accuse me of trolling when you can't even or don't even bother to read a simple statistic that I post?
I did not make the statistic.

How about you comment on the statistic and not on me for once?

It's because you have lost credibility with me and I wont be bothered with what you write or source till someone else brings it up as something to note?

I choose what I spend my time on, trolls isn't on the list. You wouldn't even have got this reply hadn't you done so much for the site technically.

I told you already.

[Husar]

It's because you have lost credibility with me and I wont be bothered with what you write or source till someone else brings it up as something to note?

I choose what I spend my time on, trolls isn't on the list. You wouldn't even have got this reply hadn't you done so much for the site technically.

I told you already.

Okay, you would still rather avoid the topic I see, have fun then.

[Kadagar_AV]

Okay, you would still rather avoid the topic I see, have fun then.

Not at all.

I just wait for some clear headed individuals to share the view and I will be all ears :)

[Tuuvi]

From that long post of mine, where I more or less refuted each and every point you had made... Your only comment is that I mentioned a TW game on a TW forum?

It was more used to show your lack of understanding, than as a legitimate source, surely you must have got that?

You had written:



That is just plain wrong. You for some reason, political agenda or just lack of knowledge, try to normalize the MASSIVE immigration we are seeing.

Last we had even comparable numbers of immigration to Europe, it caused the fall of the first democratic(ish-prototype) empire, caused widespread degeneration, and generally resulted in what is called the "Dark Ages".

So, well, get your facts straight.

I wasn't the one you were replying to, that was Idaho. And besides that I just thought you made a silly comment, I wasn't trying to argue your point.

[Kadagar_AV]

I wasn't the one you were replying to, that was Idaho. And besides that I just thought you made a silly comment, I wasn't trying to argue your point.

Oooooooooooops :creep:

[Fragony]

Leftist people don't have to click, you can't see it it will never reach your mental hardisc so don't bother. For the rest, second video.

http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2015/08/e_mineur_en_nu_allemaal_in_koor.html#comments

refugees...

[Fragony]

http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/crime_stats_oecdjan2012.pdf

Actually Australia is the rape capital of the world according to these statistics.
Why are Germany and the Netherlands so low? I thought they also accept too many immigrants?
Canada and Japan never saw any immigrants, very low rape rates. Apparently Eastern Europe is perfectly safe for women as well, they hardly accept immigrants.
Germany, Netherlands and Switzerland prove that a superior host culture can decrease rapes despite high immigration.
There is a lot we can learn here.

Why are the cases of robbery so low in Sweden if the immigrants want all the money? Given the assault rate they probably just want to beat up the natives for fun. That's pretty mean indeed. And Sweden is way too low on the punitive scale. The US are much, much harsher, a success proven by being only number 4 in rape rate.

Most immigrants in the Netherlands and Germany are fom Marocco and Turkey, Marrocans aren't exactly a succes story, but it could be much much worse, and it is, especially in Sweden. The worse the better seems to be the mantra, the aid/cuddle industry legions have to eat as well

To make it slightly pretentious

There is something rotten in Sweden.
A cause a cause, my kingdom for a cause!

Shakespear always impresses.

[Beskar]

Europe must open official channels for migrants - UN
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34049512

Why is EU struggling with migrants and asylum ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24583286

Interesting articles which is on topic.

[Gilrandir]

*yes, I should have sourced the OP better, it was lazy of me, with that said, am I really known to draw numbers from my behind?*


You haven't said anything about the statistics shown.
For example why Australia has a higher statistic, do so many Africans arrive there?
Why do some other countries have far lower statistics?


It's because you have lost credibility with me and I wont be bothered with what you write or source till someone else brings it up as something to note?


Kadagar, I believe your arguments would seem weightier if you also gave crime statistics against the chronological frame (as you did in the first post for Sweden) of a country close by which in, say, 1975 had approximately the same number of rapes (say, Norway or Denmark) but which later on pursued a different immigration policy.

[rory_20_uk]

For all intents there are an infinite number of persons who can come from Africa - large families ensure that populations can increase by million er year.

Migrants will head to places with a better quality of life until the destination doesn't offer an increased quality of life. There could be several mechanisms for this - either overcrowding and loss of resource per capita (relatively open borders) or with prevention or the perceived risk is to high to chance it (relatively closed borders).

There is no right approach of course - merely what future one wants. Currently Europe is dealing with the years of idealism where all the Nasty people on the other side of the Med and now the misery is a lot closer.

~:smoking:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

One notes that the BBC is still calling them refugees but the UN calls them migrants - which highlights the crucial point that most of these people aren't interested in going home.

So, we need to make their homes more attractive - if they're so intent on living in Europe maybe Europe should just run the Middle East?

I'm not seriously suggesting the EU try to recreate Pax Romanum but it's the logical conclusion of the immigrants' own thinking - they are coming from the Old African and Levantine provinces into the European ones. Clearly - they want to be like us, they want working roads and sewers and expensive, pointless, public buildings and a society run by an apathetic elite - they want to be MORE ROMAN.

[InsaneApache]

they want to be MORE ROMAN.

Well you asked for it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8

[rory_20_uk]

One notes that the BBC is still calling them refugees but the UN calls them migrants - which highlights the crucial point that most of these people aren't interested in going home.

So, we need to make their homes more attractive - if they're so intent on living in Europe maybe Europe should just run the Middle East?

I'm not seriously suggesting the EU try to recreate Pax Romanum but it's the logical conclusion of the immigrants' own thinking - they are coming from the Old African and Levantine provinces into the European ones. Clearly - they want to be like us, they want working roads and sewers and expensive, pointless, public buildings and a society run by an apathetic elite - they want to be MORE ROMAN.

And this has often been a problem in parts of Europe for the last c. 50 years. Immigrants want in essence their own country to be economically prosperous with good infrastructure and since it isn't they'll recreate that elsewhere. They would rather stay where they are and do not really want to be part of the new country they find themselves.

~:smoking:

[Fragony]

16104
"Refugees"

also, these "refugees" would have been safe in turkey or Greece or Hungary, or Saudi arbia for that matter. Then pray tell why they are flocking to Sweden Germany and the U.K.

Simple questjon simple answer, things are easier there for them. Once they made it there they are in for all the free money. 400 in the UK, more in Sweden.

[Husar]

16104
"Refugees"

also, these "refugees" would have been safe in turkey or Greece or Hungary, or Saudi arbia for that matter. Then pray tell why they are flocking to Sweden Germany and the U.K.

They are even safer in Germany, there are even rumors that Greece and possibly Italy give them money to pay for the travels to other countries as they don't want all of them to stay. Not to forget that the EU does not want to them to flock to just two southern countries, it's called solidarity. Turkey is incredibly selfish anyway as we could see with them bombing our kurdish allies first chace they got, wouldn't be surprised if they also happily lend them a hand to have fewer camps on their own turf.

Research has also shown that refugees also prefer countries with existing refugee networks of their countrymen, compare it to exchange students typically hanging out a lot with other exchange students because it is easier, sounds like typical human behavior then, no?
In Germany they get less money than an unemployed German on Hartz IV, and Germans complain a lot that Hartz IV is not enough to live, can't be such a paradise then, yet we take a whole lot of refugees who actually want to come here. They are also not allowed to work for at least three months and can't get a work permit if a German is ready to take the same job. So if they're just coming to steal our jobs or for the abundant money, they may be in for a surprise, and yet they keep coming.

Apparently in Sweden they get a room in the Hilton and in the UK they get 1000 pounds a day for each baby or something, but many of them still stay in Germany with the Nazi-like rules for some reason. Oh and as long as their sttus is unclear, they get no money at all here, they have to live in camps and have to order food and other things from the authorities up to a certain budget. Thre was a hunger strike in one of these camps because they weren't quite fond of these luxurious conditions. But yeah, we're being too nice to them, actual concentration camps would probably be more suitable. :rolleyes:

[Husar]

Just saw this, the german government called in the army to deal with the refugee crisis, finally!

Finally they are doing something!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB1C6hFk_Do

Luxurious tents are too luxurious though I assume. Everybody will want to have one now.

[rory_20_uk]

Many immigrants appear to be indignant that they are not allowed to go where they like - cries that they "are not animals" heard when overloaded facilities break - scant gratitude for y'know, not being shot at and whatnot.

If they really do think that there is practically a concierge waiting from them to help them to their new house and job is it any surprise that they're coming over? There have been many migrant streams through the ages that were caused in essence by the people involved being misled.

~:smoking:

[InsaneApache]

it's called solidarity

Aw man you crack me up with your wicked sense of humour! :laugh4:

[Husar]

Many immigrants appear to be indignant that they are not allowed to go where they like - cries that they "are not animals" heard when overloaded facilities break - scant gratitude for y'know, not being shot at and whatnot.

If they really do think that there is practically a concierge waiting from them to help them to their new house and job is it any surprise that they're coming over? There have been many migrant streams through the ages that were caused in essence by the people involved being misled.

~:smoking:

Given that the local population in Greece and Italy often tries to help them and the camps are actually overloaded because the governments there can't or don't want to bring them to the mainland fast enough, I would be careful with judging it from afar. If they are kept in horrible conditions on purpose, "well, at least we don't kill them..." is a very low standard for people who claim to have the moral high ground.
Not to forget that the villagers whose places they land in often seem to agree and to help them as much as they can, they can probably judge the situation better than someone who looks at a few pictures on the internet.

[rory_20_uk]

I do not claim to have nor want to have the "moral high ground" which invariably is a state of self delusion - are starving masses a new problem or merely one that has finally come to the shores of Europe? Those who are so quick to pity them have not been giving most of their disposable income to charities - and in fact few if any still have.

The governments of Greece and Italy are pretty poor at the best of times and given that the standard they should have is better than where they've come from is the whole point of being a refugee since they are fleeing a situation where they are likely to die. Sorting the logistics of 30,000 on an island right on Turkey's doorstep is no easy feat at the best of times - and as you say these persons have hardy arrived via established channels.

The locals do help them. And as always wanting to think of oneself as giving and wonderful rather palls when all those people remain and it starts impacting on one's livelihood and future. Rather than room sharing with these people it appears special trains are laid on to ensure that the problem is passed on as soon as humanly possible.

~:smoking:

[Husar]

I do not claim to have nor want to have the "moral high ground" which invariably is a state of self delusion - are starving masses a new problem or merely one that has finally come to the shores of Europe? Those who are so quick to pity them have not been giving most of their disposable income to charities - and in fact few if any still have.

That might be a good argument if charities were the ideal solution.
Quite a few people try to stop supporting the causes for war in these regions however.
IMO charities are just a bandaid when proper solutions have already failed.

As for the age of the problem, see it as a stonger reminder that we did and still do cause problems and that having human rights does not just mean your right to use a smartphone.


The governments of Greece and Italy are pretty poor at the best of times and given that the standard they should have is better than where they've come from is the whole point of being a refugee since they are fleeing a situation where they are likely to die. Sorting the logistics of 30,000 on an island right on Turkey's doorstep is no easy feat at the best of times - and as you say these persons have hardy arrived via established channels.

Yes, but you basically seem to say that living in a small cage is better than dying so they should be thankful of the cage, at least they can now turn around their own axis alive. I'd call that a serious lack of compassion, but then again you've always seemed rather cold, so maybe we'll just have to disagree there as I'd treat them as human beings and not as cattle in a small cage just because it means they're not getting shot anymore. By spreading them out into more countries and locations you can treat them better, integration works better and so on. And while it may not be easy to get them off the islands for the countries involved, other countries could help. If we can give Greece billions of Euros, we can also lend them a ship or two.


The locals do help them. And as always wanting to think of oneself as giving and wonderful rather palls when all those people remain and it starts impacting on one's livelihood and future. Rather than room sharing with these people it appears special trains are laid on to ensure that the problem is passed on as soon as humanly possible.

What else should they do? See how many fit onto the island until the first people inevitably drop off the edges? Put them into even tighter containment camps?
As for room sharing, I've never demanded that, but:
http://www.amnesty.org.au/refugees/comments/28555/
https://euobserver.com/beyond-brussels/129893
http://www.refugees-welcome.net

[Montmorency]

The refugee question is so difficult that it cannot be simplified to a mere contest between compassion and expedience.

The problem is so difficult precisely because international bodies have so little power as such.

Individual countries cannot develop effective policies for managing, averting, or diverting refugee migrations, because it becomes a matter of international security in which all countries affected are trying to impose the least burden on themselves as everyone else will let them get away with.

Thus, each country's response boils down to "do nothing". The refugees keep coming in, piecemeal hotfixes are applied inconsistently - until the kettle boils over, governments just don't have leverage to apply systematic policies.

You might notice some parallels with banking/finance regulation and the 2008 crisis...

[Montmorency]

:daisy:, I don't know - Refugee Cap & Trade?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The refugee question is so difficult that it cannot be simplified to a mere contest between compassion and expedience.

The problem is so difficult precisely because international bodies have so little power as such.

Individual countries cannot develop effective policies for managing, averting, or diverting refugee migrations, because it becomes a matter of international security in which all countries affected are trying to impose the least burden on themselves as everyone else will let them get away with.

Thus, each country's response boils down to "do nothing". The refugees keep coming in, piecemeal hotfixes are applied inconsistently - until the kettle boils over, governments just don't have leverage to apply systematic policies.

You might notice some parallels with banking/finance regulation and the 2008 crisis...

Me, I'm seeing parallels with Total War: Attila.

Apparently Europe is expected to receive 100,000 migrants this month who will try to claim refugee status. Assume an average of half that a month and you get 600,000, which is already fewer than Germany is expecting this year. Now suppose this continues for another three years, bearing in mind that Europe already has a large number of immigrants from outside the EU - the UK alone has a population which is 13% foriegn born.

The key point is that, whatever you believe, this isn't sustainable unless you're willing to accept systemic collapse on a regional level in some countries, first in Italy and Greece, then in the likes of Germany and Sweden. Sweden has already taken in so many immigrants that the law runs thin in some areas, the UK has already become a major recruiting ground for IS...

I have a horrible fealing we are actually approaching that horrible event horizon when things genuinely slide out of our control and nobody knows what will happen then.

[Fragony]

A lot of violence against immigrants in Germany lately, mostly in the old eastern-part

[Viking]

A lot of violence against immigrants in Germany lately, mostly in the old eastern-part

I am sure Husar will agree with me that we must blame it on the suppression their recent ancestors experienced under the DDR. We cannot give them responsibility for what they do themselves, that would be inconsiderate.

[Husar]

I am sure Husar will agree with me that we must blame it on the suppression their recent ancestors experienced under the DDR. We cannot give them responsibility for what they do themselves, that would be inconsiderate.

Indeed, the DDR did not want to talk about the Nazi past as a similarly suppressive regime itself, as a result, such nationalist tendencies were allowed to prosper and not talked about, not engaged with and the myths not disspelled. Additionally, the DDR was still using machinery from 1945 in 1990, which didn't really help with the unemployment rate once it entered the real world, the socio-economic conditions these people grew up under were not exactly ideal. And then the local politicians also did not do quite enough to change this. There is some progress but obviously some people are still stuck in the stupid. Their leaders can usually be blamed for it as they are often rather intelligent and know exactl what they do and how to manipulate those unfortunate souls of lower intelligence and with a fitting socio-economic background that makes them vulnerable to such ideals and manipulation.

The latest tactics revolve around pretending not to be Neo-Nazis at first and recruiting easily impressable school children already, under the disguise of being some cool youth groups where people are friends and support eachother. There was a documentary from Poland that showed how it worked on a girl there.
Once in the scene it is also hard to get out due to the fear of violence by you "friends" should you "betray" them.

[Beskar]

Germans keep giving aid to refugees from Syria, Police ask them to stop as they got too much.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-police-forced-to-ask-public-to-stop-bringing-donations-for-refugees-arriving-by-train-10481522.html

[wooly_mammoth]

I really cannot understand these people and why they feel the need to feed the "we came here to get free stuff" mentality that I've seen in many interviews with the refugees.

[Husar]

I really cannot understand these people and why they feel the need to feed the "we came here to get free stuff" mentality that I've seen in many interviews with the refugees.

Compassion is the term you are looking for.
And your guess as to their mentality is just your guess, maybe the people who actually talk to them and deal with them, such as the police, actually do have a better idea about their mentality.

[Husar]

http://www.heute-show.de/ZDF/artikel/133377/bayrische-willkommens-und-verabschiedungskultur.php

Bavarian ministress of social issues greets a refugee (roughly translated):

"Okay, are you housed well here?"
"Yes, it's fine."
"But you know that you have to go back, right?"

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

http://www.heute-show.de/ZDF/artikel/133377/bayrische-willkommens-und-verabschiedungskultur.php

Bavarian ministress of social issues greets a refugee (roughly translated):

"Okay, are you housed well here?"
"Yes, it's fine."
"But you know that you have to go back, right?"

Ha!

Sell her the bridge.

Meanwhile, migrants protest in Budapest at being stuck in Hungary

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34128263

Refugees my foot.

[Fragony]

Compassion is the term you are looking for.
And your guess as to their mentality is just your guess, maybe the people who actually talk to them and deal with them, such as the police, actually do have a better idea about their mentality.


They literally say that. But it's nice of you that you are willing to share your house with them. Or wasn't that what you meant

[Viking]

Meanwhile, migrants protest in Budapest at being stuck in Hungary

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34128263

Refugees my foot.

As if to underscore the point, there are even Syrian migrants crossing into Norway via the Russo-Norwegian border (http://www.nrk.no/finnmark/politiet-slar-alarm_-har-ikke-plass-til-alle-flyktningene-som-kommer-1.12530990), which is located north of the polar circle. They've more or less travelled from beyond the southernmost parts of Europe to the northernmost parts.

They might as well travel all the way to Svalbard, no visa requirements for settling there..


Everyone may, in principle, travel to Svalbard, and foreign nationals do not need a visa or a work or residence permit from Norwegian authorities in order to settle in Svalbard.

http://www.emb-norway.or.th/studywork/visaandresidence/svalbard/#.Vedx0_mqpBc
http://www.sysselmannen.no/en/Visitors/Entry-and-residence/

[Beskar]

Interesting twitter trend.. Africa not shown in the media (http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/jun/30/the-africa-the-media-never-shows-you-in-pictures).

[Husar]

They literally say that. But it's nice of you that you are willing to share your house with them. Or wasn't that what you meant

I don't have a house to share with them and I never demanded that anyone does.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Interesting twitter trend.. Africa not shown in the media (http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/jun/30/the-africa-the-media-never-shows-you-in-pictures).

I'm not sure how to tell you this Beskar, but the people in those photographs, who live in those houses, aren't the ones fighting their way to Europe to be either criminals or toilet cleaners.

They're rather more like you, insulated from the real world.

[Fragony]

I don't have a house to share with them and I never demanded that anyone does.

Good as you won't be getting one anyway. There is a waiting list for houses everywhere, and the EU demands that asylum-seekers get priority. I know people who have been waiting for 8 years now. Unlesss you buy you are screwed. A lot more are comming, we can't handle that.

[Beskar]

I'm not sure how to tell you this Beskar, but the people in those photographs, who live in those houses, aren't the ones fighting their way to Europe to be either criminals or toilet cleaners.

I am aware.

The remark is to highlight that Africa is more than simple mud huts, and that things can improve in Africa allowing them to have a potential for a diverse and growing economy which would limit excessive immigration and it shows that 'Africa' is not doomed to be a perpetual basket case that a lot in the media portray.

I apologise that finer nuances were lost on you.


They're rather more like you, insulated from the real world.

:laugh4: You're grasping at straws.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

:laugh4: You're grasping at straws.

As I recall your parents are well healed and you have lived in a developed Urban environment - I grew up surrounded by rural poverty, and part of it.

[Montmorency]

Russian and American rural poverty is more meaningful and instructive than English rural poverty. :snobby:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Russian and American rural poverty is more meaningful and instructive than English rural poverty. :snobby:

We have a few more cops and better education, true, but we're still talking about a society quite divorced urban Europe.

[Beskar]

As I recall your parents are well healed and you have lived in a developed Urban environment - I grew up surrounded by rural poverty, and part of it.

I live in a town which is infamous for its high poverty, crime rates and poor health, often in the "the 10 notable" for the worst rates for everything in Britain pretty much. I am from a working-class background where my mother worked two-three jobs at one point to put food on the table as the sole parent before my step-father joined us.

My current employment is mostly working with the highly vulnerable in society, often poor and destitute in the area, because it is that bad here, we don't even have clean tap water at the moment, we have to boil it to kill the parasites (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-34141380) :laugh4: (and this is the UK!).

But my work experience involves the rich, poor, young, old, families, alone, a great range of the demographics. I work as a multi-disciplinary team, I often come face-to-face with people suffering cases or have even been part of, such as domestic violence, rape, murder and even paedophilia. During all this, I need to help these individuals with their physical, mental and social needs, tackling the serious issues in their life and helping a lot of people finding reasons so they want live. So from lofty heights to what media portrays as the scum of society, I am there, helping all these people with care and compassion, being a trustworthy individual they can rely on to help them through their hard and vulnerable times, without discrimination and tailored to their needs. Yes, I do this in environments where there are actual risks to my life as well.

As afaik, my work could take me as far north as Carnforth and as far South as Ormskirk, to as far East as Burnley, but it has even stretched as far as Carlisle, Manchester and Merseyside. That covers some of most deprived rural lands in the UK as well as some of the most deprived urban areas.

I suppose all that luxury 'developed urban environment' means I am 'sheltered'. :shrug:

[Montmorency]

Don't worry Strike, yours is without measure.

[Husar]

http://www.eeas.europa.eu/csdp/missions-and-operations/eunavfor-med/index_en.htm

Apparently the EU is already working on tackling the traffickers and wants to extend the mission in October with seven warships, one aircraft carrier, several submarines and airplanes. If the German parliament agrees, Germany will be part of the extension apparently.
What seems strange is that the operation is supposed to end one year after reaching full operational capacity, will that be enough time to deter human trafficking for the future? Where will all the Africans go? Will someone willing to risk his life just go home and say "oh well..."?

[Gilrandir]

What seems strange is that the operation is supposed to end one year after reaching full operational capacity, will that be enough time to deter human trafficking for the future? Where will all the Africans go? Will someone willing to risk his life just go home and say "oh well..."?
By that time all Africa will have been empty of people.

[Kadagar_AV]

These good parents looking out for their childrens best interest sure made an appealing appeal to get into the EU...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-105630/Refugees-allowed-Italy-threat-drown-babies.html


Be all PC you want... But if you are in ANY way honest with yourself, you will realise that accepting a LOAD of immigrants from a continent with cultures that are ****, and who produce 5 children per 2 people... ... ... ... Will just mean we prolong the death throes of a failing culture, alternatively doing so while ruining our own culture.

Win/win anyone?

[Fragony]

From Germany, teacher was highly surprised by the footage of refugees ariving. She was in the same train. All cameramen filmed tne wagon with old people, women and children. Real refugees. The rest of the train was filled with healthy, well-dressed young males with the latest smartphones. Nobody filmed that.

[Husar]

From Germany, teacher was highly surprised by the footage of refugees ariving. She was in the same train. All cameramen filmed tne wagon with old people, women and children. Real refugees. The rest of the train was filled with healthy, well-dressed young males with the latest smartphones. Nobody filmed that.

How could she tell those were the latest smartphones? A lot of countries get used ones from richer countries or Chinese copies etc.
And yes, if you can afford to pay a smuggler thousands, a smartphone is probably a side-purchase. Not to forget that if the entire family or village can only afford to send one person to a better life after a really demanding journey, they usually won't spend all their money on the old grandmother with lung cancer...
You are aware that they will all be greeted by police once they leave the train and they all have to apply for asylum and go through an extensive checking process, right? This process can take quite a few months during which they live in the temporary shelters provided to them, get no money and are not allowed to work. They can choose food and other things from a budget lower than what an unemployed German gets and the government will buy and provide that. If their reasons for coming here are not believable and they cannot show actually being in danger, they are sent back. And by the way, how does a Syrian or an Afghan wearing a suit make his country more safe?
Your post seems full of fake "arguments" that are supposed to make people believe that they are not real refugees. Some of them may not be, but you can't say that based on their phone or their clothes.

[Fragony]

I didn't say it, she did. The behaviour of the cameramen is much more interesting to me, they don't film the healthy young men with good clothes and smartphones. Make of it what you want.

Sidenote, smugglers admit that they do business with IS, IS comfirms this as well. About 4000 trained jihadi's have been crossed by now, most to Germany and Sweden which are easiest to get into. Want to get rich? Invest in fake Syrian passports, Turkey is the place to be if you want one. If you want an AK there thousands in circulation in Brussels they cost only 500 euro

[Husar]

I didn't say it, she did. The behaviour of the cameramen is much more interesting to me, they don't film the healthy young men with good clothes and smartphones. Make of it what you want.

Sidenote, smugglers admit that they do business with IS, IS comfirms this as well. About 4000 trained jihadi's have been crossed by now, most to Germany and Sweden which are easiest to get into. Want to get rich? Invest in fake Syrian passports, Turkey is the place to be if you want one. If you want an AK there thousands in circulation in Brussels they cost only 500 euro

Well, maybe the cameramen do not want to support the narrative of the Nazis and the xenophobic who think having a smartphone makes you immune to bombs and bullets.

It's also good to know that the right of our citizens to bear arms is no longer restricted by high black market prices.
As for the jihadis, I welcome their colorful cultural explosions of course, it's just what I want in the spirit of Marx and humanity.

[Kadagar_AV]

Well, maybe the cameramen do not want to support the narrative of the Nazis and the xenophobic who think having a smartphone makes you immune to bombs and bullets.

It's also good to know that the right of our citizens to bear arms is no longer restricted by high black market prices.
As for the jihadis, I welcome their colorful cultural explosions of course, it's just what I want in the spirit of Marx and humanity.

Yeah, "narrative"...

Why is a narrative needed? What happened with journalists striving for objectivity - factually describing the truth they witness?

It really annoys me that media today usually have a pure political agenda.

[Fragony]

Well, maybe the cameramen do not want to support the narrative of the Nazis and the xenophobic who think having a smartphone makes you immune to bombs and bullets.

It's also good to know that the right of our citizens to bear arms is no longer restricted by high black market prices.
As for the jihadis, I welcome their colorful cultural explosions of course, it's just what I want in the spirit of Marx and humanity.

Xenophobic? Xenophilic would be a better word for those that simply aren't realistic. What is shown is not what is, pure agitprop to only show a few old people, wonen and children.

And do you think these AK's can be bought legally, there is an extensive network of illegal gun-trading, there are a LOT of illegal assault rifles that date from the war in former Yugaslavia.

[Kadagar_AV]

So, Austria decided to open up their borders, and let the Africans through to Germany...

What the HELL is happening in Europe:

The Schengen deal: We have open borders within the EU, this mean all countries are responsible for holding the OUTER border, while having no internal ones.

The Dublin deal assured that refugees MUST seek shelter in the country they arrive to.


What are we seeing now?

EU partners have absolutely NO border control, they just let people through.

"Oh, you want to get to Sweden for the free dental care? By all means, off you go then".


WHAT THE **** IS HAPPENING WITH the EU!!??

I mean, membership countries are openly violating EU-regulations like they were nothing, all to pump in more black males into the Western Society.

I call bollocks.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Germany said it's OK, so as not to appear Facist, meanwhile David Cameron agrees with you - the UK will take 20,000 Syrians over five years FROM THE CAMPS.

[Kadagar_AV]

Germany said it's OK, so as not to appear Facist, meanwhile David Cameron agrees with you - the UK will take 20,000 Syrians over five years FROM THE CAMPS.

It's not damn fascist to stick to shared agreed upon rules made between nations to work together in a union...

AGAIN, WTF is happening with the EU!!??

How come we all of a sudden decided to disregard treaties just "like that"??!!



PS: God bless the queen then!!

[a completely inoffensive name]

In five years, if the system doesn't get overrun by the sheer number of people flocking to Europe... I'm afraid the right wing will start seeing massive waves of support.

[Kadagar_AV]

In five years, if the system doesn't get overrun by the sheer number of people flocking to Europe... I'm afraid the right wing will start seeing massive waves of support.

In five years?

Are you on drugs?

As an example:

In Sweden, the National Democrats have gone from like:

1,44% of the votes 2002...

around 25% in the last poll.

Aiming to be the largest political party in Sweden by the next election..

The joke is that they are not racist or even national what so ever. They just do not support a population exchange with Africa, so to say.

[Kadagar_AV]

PS: If anyone wonder about my use of the term "black males", around 80% of the people seeking refugee status are male. Because women, you know, in their cultures are not worth to save.

And yes, **** them. That goes against like EVERY lesson my father taught me growing up.

[Kadagar_AV]

Xenophobic? Xenophilic would be a better word for those that simply aren't realistic. What is shown is not what is, pure agitprop to only show a few old people, wonen and children.

And do you think these AK's can be bought legally, there is an extensive network of illegal gun-trading, there are a LOT of illegal assault rifles that date from the war in former Yugaslavia.

While I applaud your point, I must stress to say we still have no evidence of extraterrestrial contact mate ;)

They are all human. Just like a Chihuahua and a Tibetan Mastiff are both dogs :)

[Montmorency]

PVC, Germany did it more as a sop to the overwhelmed countries of Southern Europe. It's hard for Merkel to get money directly to, say, the Italian government, while it is comparatively easy to invite refugees coming through Italy and then pay for them domestically.


How come we all of a sudden decided to disregard treaties just "like that"??!!

What you all in Europe are seeing is actually the process of the breakdown of the Schengen agreement. It's really been gaining steam over the past two years. Governments have already been softly violating Schengen anyway by having police forces conduct totally-not-border-checks at bus and train stations. This fall there will be a number of emergency EU sessions on the issue, as the Dublin rule is clearly untenable.

I think the end of "free movement of people" is coming soon. However, the core of Schengen is in fact the "free movement of goods". Germany especially will not budge on that issue for a while, as the end of unchecked commercial traffic between sovereign states in Europe is literally the end of the European Union.

[HopAlongBunny]

Syrian Invasion: Total War?

[Husar]

And do you think these AK's can be bought legally, there is an extensive network of illegal gun-trading, there are a LOT of illegal assault rifles that date from the war in former Yugaslavia.

What about the word "black market" implies legally buying something?

[Kadagar_AV]

PVC, Germany did it more as a sop to the overwhelmed countries of Southern Europe. It's hard for Merkel to get money directly to, say, the Italian government, while it is comparatively easy to invite refugees coming through Italy and then pay for them domestically.



What you all in Europe are seeing is actually the process of the breakdown of the Schengen agreement. It's really been gaining steam over the past two years. Governments have already been softly violating Schengen anyway by having police forces conduct totally-not-border-checks at bus and train stations. This fall there will be a number of emergency EU sessions on the issue, as the Dublin rule is clearly untenable.

I think the end of "free movement of people" is coming soon. However, the core of Schengen is in fact the "free movement of goods". Germany especially will not budge on that issue for a while, as the end of unchecked commercial traffic between sovereign states in Europe is literally the end of the European Union.

Thank you for your ability to read things I write.

What I fear, at least about Sweden that has accepted the most... Is that we will soon see, well, horse manure?

I mean, you can only have so many daughters assault raped and so many sons iPhones stolen and beaten, before you start to react. What shames me as a thinking human being, is that it had to get this far before people started to think.

Heck, most people are not even thinking yet.

What do people need? Gunfire in their own hallway?




Syrian Invasion: Total War?

This.

[Kadagar_AV]

What about the word "black market" implies legally buying something?

Yeah, let us separate 2 things here:

1. What people are allowed to get.

2. What people can get.


Your reasoning is basically that drugs are illegal, that's why we have no drug problems around the world.

Whenever I discuss with people like you, I have to ask myself:

Do you build up some ability to pat yourself on the back, or are you seriously thinking your left hand meeting your right hand - is what is to be considered a high five?

If so, let's not get started on the sex life, shall we?

[Husar]

Yeah, let us separate 2 things here:

1. What people are allowed to get.

2. What people can get.


Your reasoning is basically that drugs are illegal, that's why we have no drug problems around the world.

Whenever I discuss with people like you, I have to ask myself:

Do you build up some ability to pat yourself on the back, or are you seriously thinking your left hand meeting your right hand - is what is to be considered a high five?

If so, let's not get started on the sex life, shall we?

How about you stop hallucinating and then we talk?

[Kadagar_AV]

How about you stop hallucinating and then we talk?

How about you Germans sealing off your borders as of international treaties, and do your effin job?

I just get tired of 3 year old children found with their head down in the sand upon a beach, because people like you want to be oh-so-damn-good without any type of second thought about what it is you actually do.

[rory_20_uk]

You gave border responsibility to countries with levels of either corruption of ineptness that are staggering. Bravo - works well when there are no problems. Instantly broke when there are.

Germany has a dropping population. And a rising elderly population. They need young blood from somewhere. UK has a rising population. Yes, more highly trained persons to replace the indigenous dross would be great.

But like so many things designed by a group of persons at a 5 star hotel with no experience to that which they are designing it fails real life stress tests.

~:smoking:

[Myth]

Syrian Invasion: Total War?

Since it's over land I think the AI can actually handle it. Once again, England is imbalanced because the AI sucks at naval invasions. But these free upkeep jihad stacks are really pushing far inland.

[Viking]

"the Africans"

No, there is no such thing as "the Africans" any more than "the Europeans".

[Gilrandir]

Since it's over land I think the AI can actually handle it. Once again, England is imbalanced because the AI sucks at naval invasions. But these free upkeep jihad stacks are really pushing far inland.

Await them at the river crossings. Bridge battles are gonna be a breeze.

[rory_20_uk]

"the Africans"

No, there is no such thing as "the Africans" any more than "the Europeans".

There is more genetic diversity in some countries in africa than the rest of the world put together.

~:smoking:

[Fragony]

In five years, if the system doesn't get overrun by the sheer number of people flocking to Europe... I'm afraid the right wing will start seeing massive waves of support.

Allready have, but don't mind me saying that the rightwing is much more reasonable. Even boring.

[Noncommunist]

PS: If anyone wonder about my use of the term "black males", around 80% of the people seeking refugee status are male. Because women, you know, in their cultures are not worth to save.

And yes, **** them. That goes against like EVERY lesson my father taught me growing up.

If they're actually economic migrants, it might make sense since the fathers can make a lot more money in the richer country that they can send back home where the cost of living is lower.




Thank you for your ability to read things I write.

What I fear, at least about Sweden that has accepted the most... Is that we will soon see, well, horse manure?

I mean, you can only have so many daughters assault raped and so many sons iPhones stolen and beaten, before you start to react. What shames me as a thinking human being, is that it had to get this far before people started to think.

Heck, most people are not even thinking yet.

What do people need? Gunfire in their own hallway?



Syrian Invasion: Total War?

So a re-enactment of the Battle of Adrianople?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Adrianople

[wooly_mammoth]

Hmm, I had read the opposite? That Austria was starting to work on closing the borders down. And from what I read Hungary is stepping it up as well in terms of how they deal with the invaders. Was quite happy to hear that they collected a group of about 100 hundred syrians and brought them back to camp a few hours after they had run away.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Anybody who supports this mass immigration is only going to encourage more immigrants to attempt the journey and end up dying on the way.

Britain is doing the right thing by only allowing controlled immigration from the actual refugee camps.

Most of those crossing over Europe are also clearly young men seeking economic opportunities. If they were fleeing war, why are so few of them women or children?

[Montmorency]

It's both. Most refugees seeking asylum in Western countries are also economic migrants interested in living out most, if not all of their lives in their destination.

As I have mentioned in the past, my parents were such.

[Fragony]

It's both. Most refugees seeking asylum in Western countries are also economic migrants interested in living out most, if not all of their lives in their destination.

As I have mentioned in the past, my parents were such.

I don't intend to cause any insult, but there are legal ways for that.

[Montmorency]

I don't intend to cause any insult, but there are legal ways for that.

And they were used. The Soviet Union parted with its subjects only reluctantly, after all. In that case, the legal route was expedient compared to the alternative.

[Brenus]

"the Africans" : I didn't know Syria and Iraq were in Africa.

About Migrants: Syrian and Iraqis are Refugees, which is a status internationally recognised by signed treaties. I know EU only respected treaties when it fits, but next time we have a civil war in Europe, it might be handy to keep it.

"Most of those crossing over Europe are also clearly young men seeking economic opportunities"
16321
This is a photograph of the Kurdish town of Kobani/Kobane, from which the Kurdi family fled. According to David Davies, the Conservative MP for Monmouth, "nobody is actually fleeing because of war, everyone is taking an economic decision."

"If they were fleeing war, why are so few of them women or children?" You just don't want to see them.
There they are:
https://www.facebook.com/312840172131115/photos/a.312863908795408.72487.312840172131115/868443103237483/?type=1&theater

I love the people with BUT (as in it is wrong to do BUT...).

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

"the Africans" : I didn't know Syria and Iraq were in Africa.

About Migrants: Syrian and Iraqis are Refugees, which is a status internationally recognised by signed treaties. I know EU only respected treaties when it fits, but next time we have a civil war in Europe, it might be handy to keep it.

"Most of those crossing over Europe are also clearly young men seeking economic opportunities"
16321
This is a photograph of the Kurdish town of Kobani/Kobane, from which the Kurdi family fled. According to David Davies, the Conservative MP for Monmouth, "nobody is actually fleeing because of war, everyone is taking an economic decision."

"If they were fleeing war, why are so few of them women or children?" You just don't want to see them.
There they are:
https://www.facebook.com/312840172131115/photos/a.312863908795408.72487.312840172131115/868443103237483/?type=1&theater

I love the people with BUT (as in it is wrong to do BUT...).

Ah, hang on, Kobane is within the region of Western Kurdistan or "Rojava". Yes, much of the city was destroyed but currently it's relatively safe and is being rebuilt according to reports. It's certainly much safer that crossing the Med in a rickety boat. The man who lost his wife and children went back to Kobane and he has openly said they wanted to start a new, better, life in Europe.

As much as he suffered a tragedy Kad is fundamentally right that his family were not refugees, they were migrants, and they should not have been encouraged to enter the EU illegally.

For those living in refugee camps in countries like Turkey and Jordan there are legal avenues available to apply for a relocation to Europe, and there are also legal avenues for people to apply as immigrants.

What these people from the Levant and Africa are doing is illegally crossing into Europe, and targeting specific countries, in order to create a problem. They know that we won't let thousands of people freeze to death so they are travel to Germany and Sweden and force those countries to house them.

This is, fundamentally, what the Germanic peoples did during the Great Migration - faced with the Huns and falling crop yields due to poor weather they crossed the Roman frontier in their thousands in order to put the Limes between them and their problems, but once they were within the Empire they were too many of the Romans to deal with and within a century they broke the back of the Empire.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Brenus, your picture of one child isn't exactly an argument against my point that most of these "refugees" are young men.

Same goes for the picture of Kobane and the story of a single family.

[Fragony]

Perfect place for refugees, Mekka. http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/ANP-25180244.html

Yes that are all empty tents.

First pic, closer look http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2015/09/geniaal_man_lost_refugeecrisis_op.html#comments

I mean wtf

[Husar]

Brenus, your picture of one child isn't exactly an argument against my point that most of these "refugees" are young men.

And why would your point be any more valid than the picture? Have you shown any reliable proof for your point?
I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but if you want to raise your point above that of someone else, back it up accordingly.

A link like this for example: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Share_of_male_(non-EU)_asylum_applicants_in_the_EU-28,_by_age_group_and_status_of_minors,_2014_(%25)_YB15_III.png

The problem with this though, is that it throws them all together and does not just focus on the ones fleeing from middle eastern wars. I would think there are a lot of males from poor African countries, but their economic incentives should not distract from the actual problems of war in the middle east.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

72% of the refugees are males. Instead of fighting for their homes, they abandoned their families and fled to Germany, passing over 15 non waring countries.

The 2nd greatest nation in continental Europe is about to be overrun by spineless man children whom want nothing more than to consume.

Not with a bang, but a whimper.

In fairness, the married ones plan on gaining Asylum and then importing their families later - which has worked in the past in the EU.

[Brenus]

"This is, fundamentally, what the Germanic peoples did during the Great Migration - faced with the Huns and falling crop yields due to poor weather they crossed the Roman frontier in their thousands in order to put the Limes between them and their problems, but once they were within the Empire they were too many of the Romans to deal with and within a century they broke the back of the Empire." Hmmm, valid point. However, I do not remember studying how the Romans went to rescue the Germans from their Huns tyrants without really asking them, telling them they will become Roman Citizens, then blaming the Germans to come in Rome. I could as well underline that the Roman did not destroy the Germanic Armies which could have defeated the Huns, morally in humiliating the Germans (why to defend a Germany when there is none) and building a weak Germanic Army with not country to defend and only auxiliaries who just have to obey the Romans who never really rebuilt the aqueducts and the roads, markets and farms they destroyed in the process of Romanisation.

Instead of fighting for their homes, they abandoned their families and fled to Germany, passing over 15 non waring countries. Ah, yes, of course, the coward argument. Humm, as mentionned by Calicvla, Kobane was defended by the Kurds and retaken by the Kurds. And, ooops, the Kurds are bombed by the Turks without a whimper of warning from the Romans, err, NATO, US and EU. So, if I am a Pershmerga, I will start to wonder why to stay where killing my family and relatives season is open.
Who is to blame for the lack of fighting spirit of the Iraqis Army? The ones who trained them. We destroy their country then we blame them they don't fight for it.
Because of course, all these people are risking their live to have more ketchup on their burgers. And that why they try "crossing the Med in a rickety boat.". Your really think that a father will risk the life of his children and his wife just to get a better life, in the economic sense? He wanted a life. Why to deny him the same family values we have and give him his due?
Before our well prepared and beautifully planned invasion of Iraq, he wouldn't have to do so.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Hmmm, valid point. However, I do not remember studying how the Romans went to rescue the Germans from their Huns tyrants without really asking them, telling them they will become Roman Citizens, then blaming the Germans to come in Rome. I could as well underline that the Roman did not destroy the Germanic Armies which could have defeated the Huns, morally in humiliating the Germans (why to defend a Germany when there is none) and building a weak Germanic Army with not country to defend and only auxiliaries who just have to obey the Romans who never really rebuilt the aqueducts and the roads, markets and farms they destroyed in the process of Romanisation.

The point is not that that these people are unjustified in seeking a new life, the point is that we need to recognise that A: they are not all genuine refugees and B: if they keep coming they can break the countries they settle in. This isn't like the Post-War period when we invited people from our former colonies to come work in our fields or drive our buses - and that was a difficult enough adjustment for people at the time.

Many of these Syrians, particularly young men, will be former fighters, up to and including IS Jihadists. This is not a flock of frightened sheep, these are national migrations and we have already seen them break our borders. They broke out of Macedonia and Hungary, refused to register there, forced their way to Austria and now they will trek across Austria to Germany.

Like any large group of people their passage alone will cause disruption and damage to the areas they pass through, probably hundreds of thousands of Euro's worth - remember we haven't had a full harvest yet, and they will cross fields and ruin crops.

[rvg]

Accommodation of Syrian refugees reflects European values, but at the same time contradicts European interests.

[HopAlongBunny]

I blame Saint Ronald Reagan.
His defeat of Communism prevented the West from unlocking "The End of History" achievement.
Unfortunately, history continues and the mass migration of populations remains with us :stare:

[rvg]

I blame Saint Ronald Reagan.
His defeat of Communism prevented the West from unlocking "The End of History" achievement.
Unfortunately, history continues and the mass migration of populations remains with us :stare:

Europe has every necessary tool to block this migration. Every tool with the exception of the will to do it. If this backfires, Europe has only herself to blame.

[Kadagar_AV]

Accommodation of Syrian refugees reflects European values, but at the same time contradicts European interests.


Europe has every necessary tool to block this migration. Every tool with the exception of the will to do it. If this backfires, Europe has only herself to blame.

This.

I have to hand it to you RVG, you put so many thoughts in a factual and easy to comprehend way... Keep it up like that and I will even remove your moronic comment from my signature...

[Husar]

72% of the refugees are males. Instead of fighting for their homes, they abandoned their families and fled to Germany, passing over 15 non waring countries.

The 2nd greatest nation in continental Europe is about to be overrun by spineless man children whom want nothing more than to consume.

Not with a bang, but a whimper.

Careful with the words there.
As I said, that is the total number of asylum applicants, not just refugees from the Middle East.
Even I know that there are young African men who want to come here to become football players an millionaires.
These guys (who I agree do not qualify for asylum) are in there as well and would have to be removed from the statistics to be able to make a valid point about Syrian, Afghan and Iraqi refugees.

But even then one could also google for a second instead of just criticizing things after a superficial read and making assumptions that may not apply. UNHCR for example gives reasons why men or boys in particular may be more likely to flee from a conflict zone: http://www.unhcr.org/pages/4a6872836.html


Adult men and boys are often neglected in discussions of forced displacement, and yet they have particular needs and are confronted with specific threats to their life and liberty. Males are often most directly affected by the armed conflicts which provoke refugee movements. They are at risk of forced recruitment into armies and militia groups

Of course we can demand that they should resist and get killed at the hands of those militia instead, but then why fake concern about them dying in the Mediterranean? Or maybe we could tell them to just join Al Queda or their local warlord's militia instead of fighting them or fleeing from them. That way they are safe until they have to try to kill us. Oh right, they can also go to a dictatorship or stay in countries where they barely get enough food not to starve. What honest person wouldn't like to stay in the worst place possible?

[Kadagar_AV]

Careful with the words there.
As I said, that is the total number of asylum applicants, not just refugees from the Middle East.
Even I know that there are young African men who want to come here to become football players an millionaires.
These guys (who I agree do not qualify for asylum) are in there as well and would have to be removed from the statistics to be able to make a valid point about Syrian, Afghan and Iraqi refugees.

But even then one could also google for a second instead of just criticizing things after a superficial read and making assumptions that may not apply. UNHCR for example gives reasons why men or boys in particular may be more likely to flee from a conflict zone: http://www.unhcr.org/pages/4a6872836.html



Of course we can demand that they should resist and get killed at the hands of those militia instead, but then why fake concern about them dying in the Mediterranean? Or maybe we could tell them to just join Al Queda or their local warlord's militia instead of fighting them or fleeing from them. That way they are safe until they have to try to kill us. Oh right, they can also go to a dictatorship or stay in countries where they barely get enough food not to starve. What honest person wouldn't like to stay in the worst place possible?

*raises his hand*

*jumps up and down in the school bench*

I KNOW THIS ONE: It's because of a patriarchate society, isn't it???



YEY, not only did I score!! I did it on the winning side!!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Denmark has effective closed its border with Germany: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34203366

Why?

Because they want to get to Sweden.

first the bullying of Italy, then the brutalising of Greece, now this. The EU is falling apart.

[rvg]

Denmark has effective closed its border with Germany: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34203366

Bravo Denmark. They actually grew a pair and asserted their right to control who gets into their country and who doesn't. Still, the best permanent way of stopping the avalanche is to put the end to the gravy train of social welfare. Enough with the handholding and the handouts. Among the newcomers the industrious ones with the drive to succeed will succeed. Others will sink into the pits and to hell with them. I have zero respect, zero compassion and put zero value on the lives of able bodied men who come to a given country just so that they can sit on their asses and collect unemployment benefits. It's not a religious or a cultural thing: those men are a disgrace to the male gender regardless of their origin.

[Husar]

*raises his hand*

*jumps up and down in the school bench*

I KNOW THIS ONE: It's because of a patriarchate society, isn't it???

I quoted the relevant part below the link.

But yeah, as rvg says, if we turn our societies into patriarchate societies which are more like theirs, they may stop coming.

[Kadagar_AV]

I quoted the relevant part below the link.

But yeah, as rvg says, if we turn our societies into patriarchate societies which are more like theirs, they may stop coming.

And then we WIN!!

EDIT: Sarcasm.

[Kadagar_AV]

I quoted the relevant part below the link.

But yeah, as rvg says, if we turn our societies into patriarchate societies which are more like theirs, they may stop coming.

Addendum:

As to your last part referenced, as you referenced.:


What honest person wouldn't like to stay in the worst place possible?

A nationalist? A patriot? A clear thinking individual?

YOU as a German still seem to bear some weight of "white mans guilt". For quite understandable reasons, I might add. But really, get over it.

I've had family in the camps, I so totally have no Grudge towards contemporary Germany because of it. Why? Because That. Is. Not. Your. Fault.



Last I tracked, this is NOT the "end of history time" where we live forever happily ever after. This is where we jumpfart to the moon, but can not afford such travels anymore...

YEY for progression since the 1950's.

[Husar]

A nationalist? A patriot? A clear thinking individual?

I get the first two because they can be quite irrational, but you have to explain why it is clear thinking to stay in a rotten condition that you can hardly improve if you have alternatives? I wouldn't propose that to the CEO of a failing company if you actually want the job...


YOU as a German still seem to bear some weight of "white mans guilt". For quite understandable reasons, I might add. But really, get over it.

If this were a game about being wrong, you'd be really good at it. One time you complain that I make too many nazi references, and then I'm too afraid of being looked at as a nazi. People who are like that don't mention Hitler usually.

As for the moon thing, yeah, can't afford that so we plan Mars colonies and asteroid mining instead...

[Kadagar_AV]

I get the first two because they can be quite irrational, but you have to explain why it is clear thinking to stay in a rotten condition that you can hardly improve if you have alternatives? I wouldn't propose that to the CEO of a failing company if you actually want the job...



A rotten condition is having your nation invaded and your women mass-raped...

A rotten condition is when the damn AMBULANCE start to ask for strategical units.

For me personally, I don't exactly cherish that foreigners burned 16 of my neighbours cars the other week.



If this were a game about being wrong, you'd be really good at it.

You know, this is the UMPTENTH time you accuse me of losing discussions. Last real heart-to-heart we had ended with me posting "/Thread won", and there were no replies from you after that.

Wanna come at me, BRAH!! If so, stop nilly-willy and make a damn point.



One time you complain that I make too many nazi references, and then I'm too afraid of being looked at as a nazi. People who are like that don't mention Hitler usually.

No, it's not just "one time" I have argued with you about the non-existent third Reich!!

My point now, and as always, is that you, as a German, seem to have some flagellant trauma about it. Still, eventhough you actually have had nothing to do with it.

If I would command you to SIT, would you? My dog sure does, but what I am afraid is that you would too, without the deeper understanding between master/dog.


As for the moon thing, yeah, can't afford that so we plan Mars colonies and asteroid mining instead...

Yeah, not keeping up with science since the 1950's have you?

The people in the field, quite bright minds I might add, are like SCREAMING.

How's that Mars colony of yours coming of, btw? Feel like you won the argument?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I get the first two because they can be quite irrational, but you have to explain why it is clear thinking to stay in a rotten condition that you can hardly improve if you have alternatives? I wouldn't propose that to the CEO of a failing company if you actually want the job...



If this were a game about being wrong, you'd be really good at it. One time you complain that I make too many nazi references, and then I'm too afraid of being looked at as a nazi. People who are like that don't mention Hitler usually.

As for the moon thing, yeah, can't afford that so we plan Mars colonies and asteroid mining instead...

To be fair, Husar, I'm pretty sure it was me who accused you of making too many Nazi references.

Now, I realise that to you Kad and I may have blurred into a single entity but we're actually two separate people, and we probably disagree on as much as we agree.

I also complained about you being dismissive.

So.

[Husar]

To be fair, Husar, I'm pretty sure it was me who accused you of making too many Nazi references.

Because it's impossible that you both did?


I also complained about you being dismissive.

I used to be way too defensive until I figured I can just respond in kind at times. Makes some people angry though if you treat them the way they treat you.

[Kadagar_AV]

Because it's impossible that you both did?



I used to be way too defensive until I figured I can just respond in kind at times. Makes some people angry though if you treat them the way they treat you.

And you do a jolly good work, mate :D

[Montmorency]

PVC, the Germanic migrations contributed to the end of Roman power because decentralization attended their incorporation. So the point is not just the presence of the refugees, or even of the lack of a systematic EU policy toward them, but what the latter really indicates about the strength of the central EU authority vis-a-vis the attitudes of nations and national governments. Let's invite Putin to be emergency dictator of the EU; we can check back in after 5 years. Putin, or Merkel, at any rate.

[Kadagar_AV]

PVC, the Germanic migrations contributed to the end of Roman power because decentralization attended their incorporation. So the point is not just the presence of the refugees, or even of the lack of a systematic EU policy toward them, but what the latter really indicates about the strength of the central EU authority vis-a-vis the attitudes of nations and national governments. Let's invite Putin to be emergency dictator of the EU; we can check back in after 5 years. Putin, or Merkel, at any rate.

I think we might have differing history books...

First of all, the option is not Putin or Merkel, there sure are third and fourth options.

Secondly, the Roman Empire, by and large, civilized Europe. Not without false steps, blood, toil, you know... ... .. All of those things that make a civilization just that.

It's vehemently false, to blaim the fall of the Roman Empire on the Germanics. If you look at the several hundred years of history of the Roman Empire, you will see that they actually more worked in the way of: "Move in, and have the enemy join your legions".

Cooperation at first, iron fist if it didn't work.

And I know the history books love the "when it didn't work", but hey. Let's remember they didn't build the damn ROMAN EMPIRE because they were stupid.

The Roman Empire, father of the western civilization, basically went under the last time Europe had a influence of non-Europeans like now.

I think it is referred to as "The Dark Ages" or something like that.


With that said, I am of course SO happy to invite our darker skinned fellow humans to my place. So what if they scream ALLAHU AKBAR at free-speech lectures at universities!!??

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

PVC, the Germanic migrations contributed to the end of Roman power because decentralization attended their incorporation. So the point is not just the presence of the refugees, or even of the lack of a systematic EU policy toward them, but what the latter really indicates about the strength of the central EU authority vis-a-vis the attitudes of nations and national governments. Let's invite Putin to be emergency dictator of the EU; we can check back in after 5 years. Putin, or Merkel, at any rate.

The point is thousands of Visigoths sacked Rome, then the Vandals sacked and half-ruined Carthage whilst the Huns raided the Danube and destroyed the manufacturing capacity, plus all the other disasters the Germanics inflicted.

Now, to be fair, the if the Empire had not suffered such internal upheaval this would not have been so much of a problem but the fact remains that the Vandals took Africa, the Visigoths took Spain, the Franks took Gaul and finally Odoacer took Italy.

These men arrived within the Empire fleeing the Huns, the Romans moved them around because they didn't know what to do with them and one by one each group of "refugees" revolted and took a part of the Empire for themselves. They were able to do this because they were far more bellicose than the Roman civilians.

[a completely inoffensive name]

If my understanding is correct, European governments seem to be following the pattern of decentralization by giving immigrants semi-autonomy in their ghettos and neighborhoods. Or maybe this is just nonsense I read from the sun.

[Brenus]

"So what if they scream ALLAHU AKBAR at free-speech lectures at universities!!??" If I have to believe the news from Yahoo that is so reliable on Putin, Russian Bombers and Russia, they are actually converting "en masse" to Christianity when they arrived.
Plus, I do think that the refugees are probably more aware of the delights of the Islamic Republic of Iraq and Levant values than the stupid born in Europe ones who join this state. And more numerous as well.
In long term, I think they will be a big improvement in the number of atheists.:yes:

[Gilrandir]

Your really think that a father will risk the life of his children and his wife just to get a better life, in the economic sense? He wanted a life.


If refugees just wanted a life, they would stop their quest in the first place where no bombs fell. Instead, they go all the way through Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Hungary, Austria to reach the promised land of Germany. Evidently, it is more than "just a life" if they don't stay in, say, Hungary or Greece. It is the life in a richer country with free food and prospects of getting subsidies from the mellower government.



Now, I realise that to you Kad and I may have blurred into a single entity but we're actually two separate people, and we probably disagree on as much as we agree.


Oh, come on! Next thing you will be saying is that one of you is English and another is Swedish.




These men arrived within the Empire fleeing the Huns, the Romans moved them around because they didn't know what to do with them and one by one each group of "refugees" revolted and took a part of the Empire for themselves. They were able to do this because they were far more bellicose than the Roman civilians.

Yet the Eastern empire weathered the assault. Were its citizens different from their western counterparts in the degree of bellicoseness?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Oh, come on! Next thing you will be saying is that one of you is English and another is Swedish.\/quote]

Actually, I'm part Swedish.

[quote]Yet the Eastern empire weathered the assault. Were its citizens different from their western counterparts in the degree of bellicoseness?

There are a number of reasons but it comes down to geography, the Rhine frontier was the one most often breached and as a result Gaul was repeatedly sacked, the Eastern Empire was also more densely populated and had shorter overall borders, making it easier to defend.

Most essentially, however, they had more cash.

[Gilrandir]

Actually, I'm part Swedish.


A-ha!!! And you still want Husar to differentiate between you two? It is most unfair.

[Brenus]

"Hungary or Greece." Great idea. Thanks to Merkel & EU henchmen, Greece got a pacquage wich means no jobs for ever and pushed Greeks to migrate, so, not really a good plan if you want to settle, and Hungary, where the President is openly xenophobic, and the economic absolutely in shamble.
Then, Germany is not in good shape either, but they will do good with cheap labour. And it is not that far...
"It is the life in a richer country with free food and prospects of getting subsidies from the mellower government.":laugh4: The German Myth is still working...

[Pannonian]

Actually, I'm part Swedish.


A-ha!

A-ha! is Norwegian.

[Shaka_Khan]

This reminds me of the Vietnamese refugees who rode boats to flee to the other Southeast Asian countries after the Vietnamese War. Others went further to North America, Australia, and Western Europe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJsfc9PS6ds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hkUKXerM38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBfZalvoeT8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mHnWUZoloM

[Kadagar_AV]

Wrote stuff

How can south-east asian immigration by any conceivable way remind you of forced immigrations from societies at the lower end of the IQ-bell curve?

[Kadagar_AV]

The Swedish police went out with:

"No we won't keep the border, as you can not stare yourself blindly at some law"

In effect: This means they will not check identity, fingerprint, or do anything else that - you know, their job entails.

Basically, Sweden has retaliated, as a state, to the barbaric invasion.


In our "defense" though (and I use that word with the most blood drenching sarcasm I can bring) we do the same as Denmark and Germany and many others.

Sorry, only link I have is in Swedish... But it has a clip that interviews a "refugee" in english at the very start, and that alone shows that they are not refugees, but migrants. Also Google translate is your friend for the article :)

Ohhh, and it's from VERY respected media. As ALWAYS when I bring stuff.

http://www.svd.se/svensk-polis-later-flyktingar-fortsatta

EDIT: Should mention that it's the police OFFICIAL representative behind, not some random police officer on drugs.

[Kadagar_AV]

Husar will surely jump in here...

Let me just remind me that:

A) His nation is turning to feces...

B) This point:

16361








*don't compare problems when you don't have them, and please don't let your WWII trauma hijack political discussions 2015*

[Husar]

It's true, some societies fail really hard and then they whine about it on the internets and fail even more.

[Beskar]

I am going to start merging all these immigration threads together. Been several started this month alone, don't want them to overwhelm and take over the Backroom.

[Fragony]

Takes magic wand post is gone

[Kadagar_AV]

It's true, some societies fail really hard and then they whine about it on the internets and fail even more.

Oh no....

NO NO NO NO NO NO.

That's not what I am afraid of.


White people have time, and time again proved that when push comes to shove, we bring nukes.

What I am afraid of in Sweden, is NOT that the society will collapse forever. What I am afraid of, is that the Swedish population is damn nice and friendly, eager to lend a helping hand. However, if you fail on that trust... DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN, last time I think it was called "the holocaust".

I'm not afraid that Swedish culture will fall in the long run, what I am AFRAID of, like actually REALLY afraid of, is what steps we in the near future will have to take to secure the survival of our culture.

Things will, as it looks, turn extremely nasty in the not so far away future. I mean, now already we have immigrants throwing hand grenades at police cars...

Eventually the Swedish people will have had enough, and I just absolutely shudder when I think about what moral rules we will have to break to secure the survival of our culture.

Heck, by the looks of it, it might get as bad as in the RVG quote in my signature. And by then, I wouldn't want to be anything but white.




DO NOT think I endorse this thought. I just describe the direction we are leaning towards. We already by 2015 have militias, that would have been unthinkable as I grew up.

[Fragony]

For Hussie, and anyone who wonders why I prefer blogs over 'quality media'

http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2015/09/boe____iedereen_paniek.html#comments (scroll to top)

All highly educated and in need of help.

Or perhaps just a human locust plague.

[Gilrandir]

I am going to start merging all these immigration threads together. Been several started this month alone, don't want them to overwhelm and take over the Backroom.
That seem to have been the only sensible move Europeans made concerning the refugee problem.

[Montmorency]

So what you're saying is that the EU should colonize all the refugees in Kaliningrad?

[Gilrandir]

So what you're saying is that the EU should colonize all the refugees in Kaliningrad?

All agonized steps the European leaders take remind me attempts to stem the flood after the dam has burst. The threat should have been descried way back and prevented or at least minimized. Now prevention gave way to reaction which hardly looks adequate.

I don't see any sensible way of solving the refugee problem without inconveniencing Europeans in many ways. Such inconveniences will cause repercussions which will result in swaying the public sentiment to the right. European leaders are to own up to it and plan their further actions correspondingly.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What I am afraid of in Sweden, is NOT that the society will collapse forever. What I am afraid of, is that the Swedish population is damn nice and friendly, eager to lend a helping hand. However, if you fail on that trust... DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN, last time I think it was called "the holocaust".

Errrr, Kad, no.

The Holocaust was about lower-class jealousy, Jews were quite well integrated into Europe at the time despite centuries of legally enforced segregation - in fact the history of the Jews is basically the opposite of how Muslims are treated today in Europe.

[Montmorency]

PVC, you don't understand the mentality.

A parasite is a parasite, whether rapacious rich Jew or militant slumdog Muslim.

[Viking]

He doesn't seem to be talking about Muslims (or cultural markers in general), but about pigmentation levels. In other words: likely motivated by racism.

(and for record: most Jews in Europe are surely 'white' (which is a really stupid term))

[Husar]

Oh no....

NO NO NO NO NO NO.

That's not what I am afraid of.


White people have time, and time again proved that when push comes to shove, we bring nukes.

What I am afraid of in Sweden, is NOT that the society will collapse forever. What I am afraid of, is that the Swedish population is damn nice and friendly, eager to lend a helping hand. However, if you fail on that trust... DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN, last time I think it was called "the holocaust".

I'm not afraid that Swedish culture will fall in the long run, what I am AFRAID of, like actually REALLY afraid of, is what steps we in the near future will have to take to secure the survival of our culture.

Things will, as it looks, turn extremely nasty in the not so far away future. I mean, now already we have immigrants throwing hand grenades at police cars...

Eventually the Swedish people will have had enough, and I just absolutely shudder when I think about what moral rules we will have to break to secure the survival of our culture.

Heck, by the looks of it, it might get as bad as in the RVG quote in my signature. And by then, I wouldn't want to be anything but white.




DO NOT think I endorse this thought. I just describe the direction we are leaning towards. We already by 2015 have militias, that would have been unthinkable as I grew up.

Exactly what I said, and I agree that some societies always embrace Hitler again sooner or later.

[Montmorency]

Migrant Crisis: Germany to 'start border controls' (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34239674)

[Husar]

Migrant Crisis: Germany to 'start border controls' (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34239674)

Don't you think it is mean to expose the failure of certain societies' internet posts like this?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Don't you think it is mean to expose the failure of certain societies' internet posts like this?

I think Germany has undermined the principle of free movement.

Why do your people hate economic Freedom?

[Kadagar_AV]

He doesn't seem to be talking about Muslims (or cultural markers in general), but about pigmentation levels. In other words: likely motivated by racism.

(and for record: most Jews in Europe are surely 'white' (which is a really stupid term))

Uh, no.

I am talking about unemployment, terrorism, shortage of infrastructure, collapse of the welfare state with mutual trust... yadda yadda...

You don't have to go racist to understand why you don't want hundreds of thousands African or Arab immigrants a year, most with low to non-existant education and from bad cultures with war traumas...



What I am WORRIED about is the reaction when the Swedish people have had enough. We already have a social climate several thousand degrees colder than when I grew up. People no longer TRUST their fellow countrymen - and why?

Quite frankly, because they use rusted daggers to mutilate girls vaginas, because they are at large impossible to have functioning on a western market economy, because they scream ALLAHU AKBAR when we have free speech seminars at our universities...

The problems are real, but you of course prefer to blaim the problems on the "racists". That is just absolutely idiotic.

This is from our most revered university... The problems are because of racism, did I read you right?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyExaO4jzD0

[Kadagar_AV]

Errrr, Kad, no.

The Holocaust was about lower-class jealousy, Jews were quite well integrated into Europe at the time despite centuries of legally enforced segregation - in fact the history of the Jews is basically the opposite of how Muslims are treated today in Europe.

Errrr PVC, yeah.

The POINT is 2 cultures trying to share coexistence in one nation. When hardships come, if the other culture is on top, stealing their money, or on the bottom, leeching their money... That does not matter.

What matters is the difference in culture. And that it is an absolute pain on the majority culture.

If you like some other culture so much - move there.

That's also why we created Israel. See, we LEARNT LESSONS after WWII, but with a secure environment comes neglectance.

[Kadagar_AV]

A-ha! is Norwegian.

Actually it's also Swedish...

Sorry for chipping in late, totally missed it. So yeah, PVC was right all along, once again.

EDIT: Can't believe so many people pressed like on the flame on PVC. Sharpen up, you could at least fact-check before you flame someone.

AHA aha⁴ l. aha⁴, äfv. aha⁴ (stundom med kort a i senare stafvelsen), interj. (ah ha GOSSELMAN (1833))
[jfr d., holl., t. o. eng. aha; jfr äfv. fr. ah ah]
[AHA 0]
utrop, då man kommer under fund med l. upptäcker l. får veta ngt; med olika tonfall kan ordet uttrycka öfverraskning (i sht lindrig l. låtsad), belåtenhet, harm, hån m. m.: jaså, såå, ah, å(h), åhå, jag förstår; ofta användes det skämt. l. ironiskt. Men allt detta, svarar mig någon ung studerande, hör blott till anthropologien, till läran om menniskan! – Aha! (dvs. jaså, säger ni det?) min philosoph: jag trodde att vi talte om menniskan. LEOPOLD 3: 380 (1801, 1816). Makár? Aha! så heter då, / Den kära, rymmande personen? DENS. 2: 406 (1802, 1815) Hvad är det för ett blått berg, som jag ser der borta? Aha, nu förstår jag. Det är gränsen emellan det förflutna och det närvarande. LIVIJN 1: 361 (1824). Ah ha! – Var det derföre du gjorde dina många frågor? GOSSELMAN S. o. N. Am. 2: 51 (1833). Brådskande och nyfiket öppnade han (brefven) . . Aha, Rosensteins stil. CRUSENSTOLPE Mor. 3: 240 (1841). Hvem talar der? Aha! .. / Ett stycke lärd! G. L. SILFVERSTOLPE 2: 70 (1852). Aha, klämmer skon der? JOLIN Smäd. 30 (1863). Aha, min gunstig herre. Ar det så? Därs. 88. jfr: Hoity-toity! what's here to do? aha! hvad är här på färde? SERENIUS (1734).

That is the official description of the word in Swedish, not that I think you would get much of it, as I barely do - having taught Swedish ;)

SOURCE: SAOB

[Husar]

I think Germany has undermined the principle of free movement.

Why do your people hate economic Freedom?

Just following your lead.

[Kadagar_AV]

Just following your lead.

You are German, do you might want to explain why you decided to let go of your border control? Post WWII trauma much?

Your chancellor is the damn CULPRIT behind this mess.

I blame you and I damn you. You should have used your intellectual resources towards better things.

[Husar]

You are German, do you might want to explain why you decided to let go of your border control? Post WWII trauma much?

Your chancellor is the damn CULPRIT behind this mess.

I blame you and I damn you. You should have used your intellectual resources towards better things.

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

[Kadagar_AV]

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Don't read me wrong... It's not like I blame Germany for everything, and specifically not for Sweden's situation.

I just want a damned answer as to why your country decided to open up their borders for the migrants, and why you have been one of the loudest voices as of why this idiocy would in any way be sane.

But laugh all you want. I would still prefer you to put some coherent thinking into it.

[Kadagar_AV]

double post

[Fragony]

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Laugh all you want but he is right, Germany is breaking EU rules at will, the Dublin treaty is very clear. Sweden has had it tough enough as it is, and MANY want to go there because the wellfare-state is the most generous there. Sweden allready has massive problems with immigrants from the middle-east and Africa right now.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Germany is mishandling this, no matter what size of the fence you sit on. The violation of Dublin and the temporary removal of schengen serves only to destabilize the entire EU which is what Germany does not want. For some odd reason, Germany decided to do the opposite of Hungary instead of fully backing their efforts. Then in a matter of days did a 180 once the scope of the problem became clear.

[Fragony]

Germany is mishandling this, no matter what size of the fence you sit on. The violation of Dublin and the temporary removal of schengen serves only to destabilize the entire EU which is what Germany does not want. For some odd reason, Germany decided to do the opposite of Hungary instead of fully backing their efforts. Then in a matter of days did a 180 once the scope of the problem became clear.

Schengen-treaty allows closing the borders in the case of an emergency, Germany did nothing wrong there. But Merkel just chose to ignore the Dublin treaty and now expect other member-states to take all these refugees in. The Netherlands at least certainly don't have the capacity for that, in some towns the waiting-list for people who can't buy a house are more than 10 years, 20 years in the town where it's worst. That is already the situation now, and guess who gets priority. Good job Germany, disrupting Europe 3 times in about a hundred years.

Indeed, whatever side of the fence you are on, Germany screwed up badly. Not only by giving false hope but also demanding others to pay for the consequences.

[Myth]

http://conservativepost.com/and-so-it-beginsisis-flag-among-refugees-in-germany-fighting-the-police-pictures/

[Fragony]

http://conservativepost.com/and-so-it-beginsisis-flag-among-refugees-in-germany-fighting-the-police-pictures/

That has been known for a while, IS has also comfirmed it. Most are in Germany and Sweden, the guns come from Brussels

That is old news mind you, it's unkwon how many there are among the current wave but we are in trouble. IS says they will only attack governments but of course it will be bloody. Germany expects 800.000 'refugees'and wants to spread them over Europe, awesome ain't it. It isn't like we weren't warned.

[SwordsMaster]

Some of us familiar with history will likely remember that in the year 376 a massive horde, in the hundreds of thousands, arrived at the bank of the Danube. These were Goths, driven out of their homes by the merciless plundering of the Huns. Contrary to other peoples who were allowed to enter the already shaky Roman Empire, these Goths had not been massacred, vassalised, or enslaved. There are many reasons why they were allowed in - among others, because the Roman Empire was no longer what it used to be.

In the following months these refugees understood the Empire wasn't the paradise they had thought. Its rulers were feeble, and corrupt. It was going through an economic crisis, and there was no wealth, or food for everyone, and that injustice, and the greed of the rulers would be much worse for them than the citizens.

Two years later, at Hadrianopolis the Goths defeated the Roman army, and killed Valens, the Emperor. Only 98 years later, their grandchildren were instrumental in dethroning Augustulos and finally ending what remained of the Empire.

All of that has already happened. We forget. Electing semi-literate politicians we would rather have a beer with than have making difficult decisions is part of the problem. Irresponsible leaders who keep the people in the dark as it is easier to lead sheep are also part of the problem.

Since the dawn of time there have been populations invading one another out of hunger, ambition, pressure from others who invaded them, and fear. Until recently they have all defended themselves the same way - killing invaders on battlefields, taking their women, enslaving their children. And they supported themselves this way until History ended them too, in the same way. Until they came across an invader they could not defeat.

Thankfully, Europe, the heir to the humanist and intellectual traditions, of Talmud, Bible, Dante, Cervantes, Newton, Shakespeare, and Voltaire has established a tradition of human rights and liberties, but this has come with an expiration date. Now it has only money. And money can only buy mercenaries for so long. It makes me wonder, if a new Hitler had risen today, would Europe unite in a response as violent and decisive as in 1939?

We pay for our sins. The disappearance of communist regimes has removed a counterpoint model to the capitalist democracy, idiotic wars in the Middle East which have mostly served to destabilise the region that was not ready for a government in the western model made the pot boil over. The centurions who watched our borders - mercenary as they are at the end of all empires - have also fallen. We want our armies to be NGOs. But without them, the borders are open to the thousands of the desperate that want in. It's a new story for us, but an old one for the world. The inevitable mechanic of history. The hordes are peaceful at first, but faced with discrimination, violence, terrible conditions, and injustice some will inevitable turn to violence. The usual response - to make policing harder, tougher - will only precipitate more violence, ghettoes which will be like dormant volcanoes waiting for the right spark to start their eruption.

This battle cannot be won. There are countless examples in history. We cannot. Our social, moral, political, and intellectual environment will not allow us. We have gone beyond massacring thousands on battlefields, thankfully our civilisation will not tolerate these types of atrocities. The problem is that we have overdone it. We have disarmed the people tasked with defending us, and any vigorous stand against the causes of these migrations is met with pacifist discourse that is as legitimate ideologically, as it is historically blind, with political debates centered around winning the next election where vigorous action is required.

Everything is an enormous contradiction. The citizen, in its moral decisions is better now than he was in centuries past. Certain injustices and cruelty will not be tolerated. This is for the good of humanity. But this will doom the Empire.

So we come to the root: Europe, lacks the capability, the will, the desire, and perhaps even the right to defend itself. We live in the absurd paradox of pitying the barbarians, even celebrating the victories, and at the same time expect to preserve our comfortable lifestyle. Things are not, and cannot be so simple. The Goths will continue arriving in waves, to cities, farms, roads, and borders. It is their right. And they have what Europe doesn't: the hunger, ambition, youth, and decision. Historically there are not many outcomes possible: if they are few, the new arrivals are integrated in the local culture, and it becomes richer as a result; if they are too many they transform it, or destroy it. Not in a day, of course. Empires take generations to fall, and no Pax Romana benefits all.

So what are the remedies? What can we do? In my opinion there are only a couple. First is to realise, as grown ups, that sometimes it is too late to change the consequences of our actions. The bus has rolled off the cliff. Perhaps it is the end of Europe as we know it. Of course much of the old will survive, as we know Homer, and Ovid, and cross roman bridges in Salamanca and Maastricht, so will future generations remember the achievements of the Europe of today. We won't be here to see it. We get off at the next stop.

There are only two possible attitudes in this scenario: One is the analgesic consolation of finding and understanding an explanation of the events. Not to avoid what is inevitable, but to understand that everythink is going to hell. To be the roman who smiles in his library as the barbarians burn the city. Understanding always helps with carrying the burden.

The other attitude is to educate people thinking of their children and grandchildren. To take a long view. To help them understand the world they will inherit, and arm them with the necessary skills to adapt to the inevitable, preserve what they can of the world that is disappearing, and to have the ability to influence the world to come. Give them the tools to survive in an environment that will be for a while, in flux - chaotic, violent, and dangerous. So they can fight for what they believe, or resign to the inevitable, but not for lack of ability, stupidity or indecision, but out of the understanding and lucid thought and intellectual serenity. Allow them to be what they want, or what they can. Whether Greeks, Trojans, or Romans, and allow them to face their world, and improve it without the luggage of past assumptions, and pretensions. Let's not fill them with cheap demagogy, and Walt Disney magic. They will need to survive.

[wooly_mammoth]

^...or we could just pop some lead between the eyes of the terrorists, send back home those who came here just to live off of social services and help those that are fleeing war and are in real need to integrate and get a better future for themselves and the rest of society, should they choose to remain here or go back once the war is over. I think all of this can be done. It's just that morons are waaay too tolerated for their own good (and ours), but with mounting social pressure, that may change, because I don't think all the idiotic (politically correct that is) discourses in the world will be able to help much once jihadis start shooting unbelievers to the left and right.

Oh and communism sucks. My country has been through that, taff it, I'm so glad it's over. I'll take capitalism with all of its sins any day of the week as opposed to that. Taff commies.

[Fragony]

Rule#1 for a historian: history does not repeat itselve. Got to give it to you that it's a great post

edit: was Swordmaster

[SwordsMaster]

Rule#1 for a historian: history does not repeat itselve. Got to give it to you that it's a great post

edit: was @Swordmaster (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=25273)

Thanks Frags.

History does repeat itself if nobody learns from past mistakes.

[Montmorency]

It makes me wonder, if a new Hitler had risen today, would Europe unite in a response as violent and decisive as in 1939?

Of all the grandstanding of that post, I have to remark on this bit.

Europe did not unite in 1939. It reacted neither decisively nor violently. Indeed, Hitler was able to make the first moves in 1939 precisely because Europe was disunited.

We have no understanding of today's events.

[Viking]

Uh, no.

I am talking about unemployment, terrorism, shortage of infrastructure, collapse of the welfare state with mutual trust... yadda yadda...

You don't have to go racist to understand why you don't want hundreds of thousands African or Arab immigrants a year, most with low to non-existant education and from bad cultures with war traumas...

Irrelevant. You chose to refer to people based on their pigmentation levels ('black' and 'white') rather than their background - i.e. culture and nationality (and just now: biological ethnicity). This more or less implies that their pigmentation level (or their biology in general) is a problem in itself; as if one could not expect people with this and that pigmentation level to behave other than so and so.

Look at it this way: if you could only chose between two words to describe Hitler, 'white guy' and 'Nazi', which one would you chose?

[Fragony]

We have no understanding of today's events.

^ what he says

@ Swordmaster

You can't learn from history, the conditions in what it took place can't jusf be slapped upon wildly different circumstances.

[SwordsMaster]

Of all the grandstanding of that post, I have to remark on this bit.

Europe did not unite in 1939. It reacted neither decisively nor violently. Indeed, Hitler was able to make the first moves in 1939 precisely because Europe was disunited.

We have no understanding of today's events.

This is true. However, the response was mostly united. It was decisive, and it was violent. Ultimatums were kept to the point of atrocious violence. I wonder if European governments today would have taken such a step. The whole Ukraine/Putin situation comes to mind.

[SwordsMaster]

^ what he says

@ Swordmaster

You can't learn from history, the conditions in what it took place can't jusf be slapped upon wildly different circumstances.

Ah, come on. This is like saying you can't learn from a chess game because the pieces were in different positions.

[Fragony]

Ah, come on. This is like saying you can't learn from a chess game because the pieces were in different positions.

Rome's situation and Rome's relation with the goths is very complex it just cannot be compared to the present, it was a very long proces, not a wave.

[Husar]

http://conservativepost.com/and-so-it-beginsisis-flag-among-refugees-in-germany-fighting-the-police-pictures/

This might come as a shock to people with reading issues, but I wouldn't care much if police shot them on the spot.
They identify themselves as combatants of a hostile state, what can they expect?
Unfortunately that level of actually fighting criminals is a bit lacking lately, instead we just spy on everyone and increase sentences for copying a CD because think of the poor multinational megacorporations.

[Kadagar_AV]

Irrelevant. You chose to refer to people based on their pigmentation levels ('black' and 'white') rather than their background - i.e. culture and nationality (and just now: biological ethnicity). This more or less implies that their pigmentation level (or their biology in general) is a problem in itself; as if one could not expect people with this and that pigmentation level to behave other than so and so.

Look at it this way: if you could only chose between two words to describe Hitler, 'white guy' and 'Nazi', which one would you chose?

Look at it this way... you automatically scream "RACISM" when someone questions or argues against mass immigration from the Middle east and Africa.

You have no arguments as to why it would be a GOOD idea to let them in, oh no. You just scream "BLOODY MURDERER" at anyone awake enough to understand Europe has dire problems.

[Removed Farmyard Animals]

[Gilrandir]

History does repeat itself if nobody learns from past mistakes.

They say history repeats itself twice - once as a tragedy and the second time as a farce. Which one are we witnessing now?

As far as the refugees are concerned:

Ukrainian media are almost indifferent (or should I say unbiased?) to the problem just reporting of the waves of immigrants and the inability of Europe (mostly Hungary) to cope with the deluge.

However, yesterday I saw an interview with a Ukrainian woman, who lives in Vienna and claims to have lived in the Middle East for five years and to know the local dialect of Arabic well. She was to take a train from Vienna to somewhere and came to the railway station. She was shocked not so much by the numbers of the refugees but by their behavior. They were doing "what the nature demanded from them" never minding the on-lookers, not an uncommon sight was a man beating his woman, some man tried to snatch her suitcase from her, others shouted obscenities after her. When she boarded the train, only four other passengers on her car were locals others being refugees. While the trip lasted she listened to them discussing whether it would be fine to rob her (and perhaps rape her) since she was dressed inappropriately, and was infidel anyway so it wouldn't really be too bad. At some moment there was an announcement that the train was not to go any further and she (as well as four other Austrians) had a trouble leaving the car.

[Viking]

^ what he says

@ Swordmaster

You can't learn from history, the conditions in what it took place can't jusf be slapped upon wildly different circumstances.

Certain mechanisms have a tendency of repeating, so yes; it is possible to learn from history - it's just that it's a bad bet to look for an exact repeat of a scenario.



You have no arguments as to why it would be a GOOD idea to let them in, oh no. You just scream "BLOODY MURDERER" at anyone awake enough to understand Europe has dire problems.

I've most recently (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?149481-To-Hijab-or-not-to-Hijab&p=2053654318&viewfull=1#post2053654318) argued against mass-immigration from those very areas. You are missing the point completely.

You seem think that in order to to accuse someone who opposes immigration of racism, you have to be supportive of immigration yourself - which is rather obviously nonsense.

[Fragony]

Certain mechanisms have a tendency of repeating, so yes; it is possible to learn from history - it's just that it's a bad bet to look for an exact repeat of a scenario.

That's like altering the sum to reach an outcome. This is without prescedent, in the Roman times there were major shifts of people moving and settling, but that took centuries, I am sure you can find a timelapse somewhere,.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Out of all the challenges Europe has ever faced, this is the one that ends its hegemony?

You people made great strides to open borders and reduce arms in an effort towards inter-European peace and now you are all tripping over how to treat these long distance migrants?

You have no duty to these people. Every one of you lot that called US/UK policy in the region callous when these same countries we destabilized sent the US into recession in the 1970s as soon as they realized they could embargo enough oil to fuck with us.

[Montmorency]

Out of all the challenges Europe has ever faced, this is the one that ends its hegemony?

To be technical, European hegemony had already ended by the conclusion of WW2.

[AE Bravo]

The US screwed you lot by displacing these people in the first place. They're okay with taking them in and getting them to adapt, EU is just too white.

[Husar]

Every one of you lot that called US/UK policy in the region callous when these same countries we destabilized sent the US into recession in the 1970s as soon as they realized they could embargo enough oil to fuck with us.

If this is a sentence I can't find it.


The US screwed you lot by displacing these people in the first place. They're okay with taking them in and getting them to adapt, EU is just too white.

How many thousands have they taken in the US?
http://www.vox.com/2015/9/11/9309973/syrian-refugees-us

Let's hope they won't take more or ACIN may start as many threads as Kadagar. :drama1:
But don't worry, once they have turned Europe into a desert kaliphate, the US will be next.

[AE Bravo]

I've never seen a green caliphate before, I bet it would be less angry. I blame the heat.

[Montmorency]

I guess after the next war, there will be conspiracy theories of a Moon Caliphate.

(Hitler relocates to Mars.)

[Kadagar_AV]

Certain mechanisms have a tendency of repeating, so yes; it is possible to learn from history - it's just that it's a bad bet to look for an exact repeat of a scenario.




I've most recently (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?149481-To-Hijab-or-not-to-Hijab&p=2053654318&viewfull=1#post2053654318) argued against mass-immigration from those very areas. You are missing the point completely.

You seem think that in order to to accuse someone who opposes immigration of racism, you have to be supportive of immigration yourself - which is rather obviously nonsense.

What exactly is racism to you?

I vehemently dislike having Arabs, Africans and Gypsies around me, in the place where I live.

It does not mean I don't treat every person I meet with respect, it does not mean I don't do my best to integrate them to my society, it does not mean I am not willing to help them create better living conditions for themselves in their home states...

But see, I dislike having Gypsies around me, not Romanians or Bulgarians, as an example. And Gypsies come from Romania and Bulgaria.

I have several Romanian and Bulgarian friends, but yes, one of the ethnic cultures in Romania and Bulgaria I don't like.


And why? Because Gypsies is a pure parasitic culture that is straight out said EVIL to the people following it, and generally negative on the society they dwell in.

Is that racist?

I find it problematic that we to Sweden import people from cultures with a long history of inbreeding and "quantity above quality" so to say when it comes to creating a second generation...

Is that because I am racist, or because I am SO bored with teaching math to these stupid people, all the while seeing the population and the politicians running around with their arms in the air wondering why the school results are sinking like a stone.

*not teaching anymore, I should add, because I left teaching for this exact reason. I didn't become a teacher to deal with problems like this, I would honestly say around 30% of my work time was dealing with immigration problems (in various ways), I joined politics instead of teaching to get to the root with the problem*

Heck, that 10 year old girl I had, who was about to have her vagina mutilated in Africa, with me unable to stop it even though calling the social service, police, and so on still haunts me.

I have time and time again on these boards said that I believe the world would be a better place if around 10% of the population in every country was foreign - spread from all over the world.

However, that is NOT what we are seeing.

Am I racist?

Maybe, I don't know...

I think the human race evolved, and then split up because of various reasons. We are still the same RACE though - humans.

With that said, I also believe that all dogs are dogs... But let us remember that we still have Berner Blanc Suisse and Chihuahuas, and those have evolved on a time period WAY shorter than humanitys history.

My point is that when I decided to get a dog, well, guess my pick.

And it's not that I am a racist that HATE other dog breeds. I think German Shepherds are also cool, Border Collies are intelligenter than my dogs breed, and Poodles can do circus numbers to make you laugh all day...


With that said however, I wouldn't ever get a Chihuahua, because they are less intelligent, they take WAY more training before they stop pooping indoors, and they bark at the mailman even though he is just doing his job.

[a completely inoffensive name]

If this is a sentence I can't find it.

It's just a massive run on sentence. Let me elaborate what I am trying to say.

Everyone who called US led policy in the Middle East 'callous' is naive. Those who blame all the ills of the middle east on the US are naive. Many of the neighboring arab countries are playing Europe as naive. How many refugees has Saudi Arabia taken? Egypt? Algeria? These are countries that much closer in proximity, culture and religion to Syrians than Western Europe on all accounts.

The whole area is full of regimes that from the 1950s are nothing but opportunistic. Once they felt they could, they tried to destroy Israel, once they felt they could, they embargo'd oil, once they felt they could, they promoted Islamic terrorism and funded radical Islamic thoughts to undermine Western influence. Now many of these same countries feel that they can get away with refusing to take in Syrians because they know EU policies and morals will force Europe to take in everyone who tries to come in. They promote this as well, as there is no reason why many of these refugees cannot simply find safe refuge in the first EU countries they come across (typically Greece and Hungary). Instead it is obvious they have fed a message of "Get to Germany or bust".

You are getting played and it is becoming more and more obvious by the minute. Why are the vast majority of refugees men other than to exploit the German legal system that allows declared refugees the right to bring their families along with them?

My point of view is that the Syrian civil war is solely a middle east problem that should be resolved by the middle east community and instead it is being guilt tripped onto Europe. The sad thing is that many Europeans are going along with the guilt trip.

And if you think I'm some monster or ignoramous because of this oh well. My hope is for Europe to remain the bastion of social democracy that I can point to in order to bring America up to European standards (e.g. health care). I don't like seeing Sweden's right wing party jump from 2% to 25% of the vote and I don't like seeing UKIP getting media attention in the UK. The refugee situation is only feeding these groups more and more.

[Montmorency]

These are countries that much closer in proximity, culture and religion to Syrians than Western Europe on all accounts.

Algeria? For the record, Egypt has taken in more Syrian refugees than the UK has refugees from anywhere.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well, I suppose if I'm living through the fall of Rome I should become a bishop - a Roman bishop riding a Challenger II Tank.

This is going to go one of two ways - Europe degrades under the weight of the incomers and continues its slow collapse or it pulls together at the last moment and the EU emerges as a new state - one means decades of gradually deteriorating living standards and the painful collapse of our civilisation - the other means fire and blood and death.

If the EU does become a real country we need to move the Capital to somewhere nicer than Brussels - and more central so that the South and East gets screwed less.

:book2:

Rome is quite central, and it has a lovely climate...

Now...

Who can we make Emperor?

[Kadagar_AV]

Algeria? For the record, Egypt has taken in more Syrian refugees than the UK has refugees from anywhere.

Montmorency, can you do me a personal favour?

Look at the number of refugees the Gulf States (Kuwait, Bahrain, Iraq, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates) accept.

Then bear in mind that Saudi Arabia alone, has SUPER QUALITY TENTS that can host 3 million people, standing unused, as they only use them one time a year for religious reasons...

Bear in mind that Saudi Arabia has recently went out with THEIR support of the refugees, to build 200 mosques in Germany..

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/09/10/refugee-crisis-richard-dawkins-saudi-arabia-mosques-in-germany_n_8115492.html

Let's remember that these are nations culturally WAY more close than ours.





What is your analysis of this?

And yes, I ask you for a personal favour, only thing I give you in return is that you have +1.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Algeria? For the record, Egypt has taken in more Syrian refugees than the UK has refugees from anywhere.

Algeria is actually a bit farther from Syria than germany, but off the top of my head it is a member of OPEC and does somewhat well for itself. I remember reading somewhere that they have already taken in 25,000-30,000 people.

I didn't know that about Egypt actually. Then again, I'm not surprised since the UK never bothered to even adopt Schengen. My point is that while Egypt has taken in ~150,000 refugees (0.17% of the Egyptian population), why is Germany taking 800,000 (0.98% of Germany's population)? Also, while the UK has not directly accepted refugees it has sent over one billion pounds in aid to Syria (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/british-pm-meets-syrian-refugees-lebanon-33739397), which is more than almost any other country.

According to Amnesty International, "The six Gulf countries - Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Bahrain - have offered zero resettlement places to Syrian refugees. (https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/12/facts-figures-syria-refugee-crisis-international-resettlement/)"

If these countries were to participate in their fair share of refugees, they could absorb over two million refugees.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Welp, it finally happened. Kad and I practically made the same post.

No offense Kad, but I'm going to bow out and read some more on this issue. I just want to make sure I really, really​ understand what's happened before I commit to this position.

[Montmorency]

Kad, check earlier in the thread for a discussion of the matter between Viking and myself.

The Gulf states, apart from any evil conspiracy to make the decadent West collapse in on itself, are quite aware of the political risks to themselves of taking in so many refugees.

Regardless of all that, sure, it would be nice if EU states at least publicly demanded major concessions from the Gulf states for the trouble.

[Pannonian]

Kad, check earlier in the thread for a discussion of the matter between Viking and myself.

The Gulf states, apart from any evil conspiracy to make the decadent West collapse in on itself, are quite aware of the political risks to themselves of taking in so many refugees.

Regardless of all that, sure, it would be nice if EU states at least publicly demanded major concessions from the Gulf states for the trouble.

And prepare to go through with our threats of dumping the refugees back in Syria if they break their word. Which they will, so we might as well prepare for the latter now. If the Syrians have nowhere else to go other than into fellow Arab states, then the latter will collapse. Whatever happens, we should be weaning ourselves off from middle eastern oil. Even Russia is a more reliable energy supplier, being as they are closer to our mindset.

[Montmorency]

nd prepare to go through with our threats of dumping the refugees back in Syria if they break their word.

Er, no. That would not immediately impact the peninsula, but it would outrage and seriously threaten Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, and even Iran. In fact, that's practically a dream for the Saudis.

[Kadagar_AV]

Welp, it finally happened. Kad and I practically made the same post.

No offense Kad, but I'm going to bow out and read some more on this issue. I just want to make sure I really, really​ understand what's happened before I commit to this position.

What happened is that you realised that I wasn't the racist idiot many think, mate ;)

The more you read up the happier I will be :)

Montmorency, so +1 then.

[Kadagar_AV]

Monty, On a second note... No...

I want your ANALYSIS of my specific question for you to get a +1...

I mean, I actually want you to share what you think. Of my specific point and view at large.

Sorry if I missed stuff, but for a +1 you could at least go to the bottom of your heart on this :)

[AE Bravo]

Dump the refugees on Lebanon, Israel, and ESPECIALLY the Islamic Republic of LOLran. Saudi Arabia too.

[Pannonian]

Er, no. That would not immediately impact the peninsula, but it would outrage and seriously threaten Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, and even Iran. In fact, that's practically a dream for the Saudis.

Let them deal with the problem. They claim to have a common culture and identity.

[Montmorency]

Monty, On a second note... No...

I want your ANALYSIS of my specific question for you to get a +1...

I mean, I actually want you to share what you think. Of my specific point and view at large.

Sorry if I missed stuff, but for a +1 you could at least go to the bottom of your heart on this :)

Are you asking something about refugee distributions, or the offer to build mosques? I figure it's the latter.

My analysis (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP8zXJ_xsEc).

[Kadagar_AV]

Are you asking something about refugee distributions, or the offer to build mosques? I figure it's the latter.

My analysis (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP8zXJ_xsEc).

For a +1 you still need to make it in your own words, written... *sorry, no offence*

[Montmorency]

My analysis is that Saudi offers to construct mosques in Germany as aid in proportion to the number of Syrians taken in is similar to dudebro offers to donate money to breast cancer organizations in proportion to the number of young women whose breasts they get to slobber on.

Now begone.

[Kadagar_AV]

My analysis is that Saudi offers to construct mosques in Germany as aid in proportion to the number of Syrians taken in is similar to dudebro offers to donate money to breast cancer organizations in proportion to the number of young women whose breasts they get to slobber on.

Now begone.

Wow... You have NO political thoughts, no religious thoughts?

EDIT: How many of the 11/9 attackers were from Saudi Arabia again?

Sorry, but I was asking for his thoughts about it, and analysis... Not for his repetition of what I said.

[Montmorency]

You have NO political thoughts, no religious thoughts?

I believe in Angela Merkel. Everything else is negotiable.

:crown:

[Kadagar_AV]

I believe in Angela Merkel. Everything else is negotiable.

:crown:

Yeah, you are STILL playing the politician game...

What are your honest thoughts?

[Husar]

I have time and time again on these boards said that I believe the world would be a better place if around 10% of the population in every country was foreign - spread from all over the world.

Since I do not remember a single instance of you saying that, how about you link me to some? Let's say three instances minimum and you get a +1 if you link me five.


It's just a massive run on sentence. Let me elaborate what I am trying to say.

Everyone who called US led policy in the Middle East 'callous' is naive. Those who blame all the ills of the middle east on the US are naive. Many of the neighboring arab countries are playing Europe as naive. How many refugees has Saudi Arabia taken? Egypt? Algeria? These are countries that much closer in proximity, culture and religion to Syrians than Western Europe on all accounts.

The whole area is full of regimes that from the 1950s are nothing but opportunistic. Once they felt they could, they tried to destroy Israel, once they felt they could, they embargo'd oil, once they felt they could, they promoted Islamic terrorism and funded radical Islamic thoughts to undermine Western influence. Now many of these same countries feel that they can get away with refusing to take in Syrians because they know EU policies and morals will force Europe to take in everyone who tries to come in. They promote this as well, as there is no reason why many of these refugees cannot simply find safe refuge in the first EU countries they come across (typically Greece and Hungary). Instead it is obvious they have fed a message of "Get to Germany or bust".

You are getting played and it is becoming more and more obvious by the minute. Why are the vast majority of refugees men other than to exploit the German legal system that allows declared refugees the right to bring their families along with them?

My point of view is that the Syrian civil war is solely a middle east problem that should be resolved by the middle east community and instead it is being guilt tripped onto Europe. The sad thing is that many Europeans are going along with the guilt trip.

And if you think I'm some monster or ignoramous because of this oh well. My hope is for Europe to remain the bastion of social democracy that I can point to in order to bring America up to European standards (e.g. health care). I don't like seeing Sweden's right wing party jump from 2% to 25% of the vote and I don't like seeing UKIP getting media attention in the UK. The refugee situation is only feeding these groups more and more.

Thank you for this reply. It actually made me think a bit and you may have a point. The obvious sarcastic reply is "but the Saudis are our friends" and the truth behind it is that we helped these people stay in power, which IIRC was among the things I criticized about our handling of the region. And by our I do not just mean the US but also Europe. If it hadn't been for all the oil money and the weapon deliveries, these countries might look and behave quite different today, but that's a what-if.

As for my position on refugees, many people fail to see that I have always said the refugees need to be checked and only those who are actually in need should be allowed to stay, which is the way it actually works. Kadagar posted the rejection rates and failed to see that Germany only allows 41% to stay (not counting appeals and court processes) while in Sweden it is more than 70%. That doesn't mean that we do not sometimes allow the wrong people to stay, but I'd hazard a guess that in Germany there are fewer "wrong" ones than in Sweden, which is another reason the never-ending Sweden-comparison just doesn't work. I've also criticized the lack of will on the part of politicians to actually apply the laws or adjust them to long-known exploits. And I still am told that I have some guilt complex as though people just don't read the parts of what I say that make their attacks pointless. Admittedly I've misread posts myself, but it seems like every week some people are reset and come with the same arguments again. What I argue against is the kind of argument that goes "I want none of these brown people here!" and that said, I await Kadagar's links, perhaps he just had problems communicating his multicultural spirit lately, in which case I may be open for a big virtual hug.

[Kadagar_AV]

Since I do not remember a single instance of you saying that

I dunno either...

I for a FACT know that I have written it on several occasions during the 12 years, it is a main staple of my view and I remember some conversations where it was used.

But searching your database, you are right, I can't find it.

However, this would be the first time I had hallucinations or other mental injuries, so I am not entirely sure your database is correct. But yes, I get why you wrote that, but no... I 100% know it has been written before.


EDIT: A search in your database still show no results on user Kadagar_AV with the search term 10% and search all posts even after I once again wrote it just some posts ago, so yeah...

I think the problem is on your side, tech admin. I can't even find the post I just made using the sites search engine.

[Gilrandir]

Then bear in mind that Saudi Arabia alone, has SUPER QUALITY TENTS that can host 3 million people, standing unused, as they only use them one time a year for religious reasons...


C'mon! They can't even handle 1000 times fewer crowd:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34231620

[Fragony]

Pic http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/09/10/this-giant-saudi-arabian-tent-camp-is-empty-it-can-hold-three-million-people-yet-the-refuse-to-take-in-any-refugees/

closer look http://www.amusingplanet.com/2014/08/mina-city-of-tents.html

[Beskar]

I for a FACT know that I have written it on several occasions during the 12 years, it is a main staple of my view and I remember some conversations where it was used...

It was in this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?149400-One-stop-Thread-for-Immigration-Migration&p=2053656709&viewfull=1#post2053656709), mid-way down.

Edit: I might have jumped gun, I thought you wasn't sure where you posted it. Just returned from work. :whip:

[Viking]

What exactly is racism to you?

Being prejudiced based on biology. If you don't want to let people with IQ less than a certain threshold into the country; then you should give applicants IQ tests, not look at their pigmentation levels (and if you are really worried about IQ levels, then you should also test ethnic Swedes and expel those with low scores).


With that said however, I wouldn't ever get a Chihuahua, because they are less intelligent, they take WAY more training before they stop pooping indoors, and they bark at the mailman even though he is just doing his job.

But then you would have to prove it. Given that our knowledge of human biology is at a premature stage, this likely not possible for the moment. All kinds of factors can influence how people end up - whether things like aggressiveness or intelligence. Nutrition could influence, education could influence; and effects could accumulate over generations. Until we can provide decent estimates on how people are going to behave solely from DNA, the case for linking behaviour with biological ethnicity will be weak, because the possible contributing factors will be hard to separate.

If two populations largely live segregated, then the non-biological factors can vary a lot between the two populations. If they do not live segregated, then they would likely interbreed and soon there would no longer exist two separate populations to study. So that's why you want to understand the DNA if you want to get to the bottom of it.

[Fragony]

Wouldn't three generations getting the same chances eliminate most considerations if you put it like that? Not trying to be an ass but people from some regions do really badly, why dismiss what should be a consideration. I will just admit that I am a racist, I believe there are differences, good or bad. If you get dropped in the middle of Australia, you die. Aboriginals wont, they won't be depleted in a few hours. You would probably do better at getting a master's degree though.

[Kadagar_AV]

Being prejudiced based on biology. If you don't want to let people with IQ less than a certain threshold into the country; then you should give applicants IQ tests, not look at their pigmentation levels (and if you are really worried about IQ levels, then you should also test ethnic Swedes and expel those with low scores).



But then you would have to prove it. Given that our knowledge of human biology is at a premature stage, this likely not possible for the moment. All kinds of factors can influence how people end up - whether things like aggressiveness or intelligence. Nutrition could influence, education could influence; and effects could accumulate over generations. Until we can provide decent estimates on how people are going to behave solely from DNA, the case for linking behaviour with biological ethnicity will be weak, because the possible contributing factors will be hard to separate.

If two populations largely live segregated, then the non-biological factors can vary a lot between the two populations. If they do not live segregated, then they would likely interbreed and soon there would no longer exist two separate populations to study. So that's why you want to understand the DNA if you want to get to the bottom of it.

Oh my...

Sorry mate, that still sounds brainwashed, and have no resemblance to facts.

First of all, I am not - to take an example, saying everyone in Japan is intelligent. What I am saying is that if we take in loads of people from Japan to - say - Sweden, school results are likely to go up.

That is not even prejudice, it's fact. Hey, I even heard that in the USA, students are told to "keep down" their asianess if they want to get into uni, as there are so many asians there and the unis try to run race-programs to make society more "equal" for the blacks.

Not that I would ever get why it's better to have a less qualified black doctor, than a more qualified asian one. But oooooooh the logical missteps we have to take to be good persons in this new multicultural world.


How the HELL can you from anything I have written drawn the conclusion that I would in any way support expelling Swedes below a certain IQ score? Are you on drugs? That sounds like one of the most dystopian fantasies I have ever heard, and you try to put that thought on me?

That's insulting, and I look forward to you saying "I am sorry".



AND LOL, do you actually live in a world, where if you wanted a guard dog, you would not be able to see any difference between dog breeds, as DNA can't prove who would be the most adequate?




Heck, I don't even HAVE to get into biological reasons as to why I don't want Arabs and Africans around me, except on vacation.



It is simply because since we started letting them in, in massive ways, we have riots, attacks against the police, women are no longer safe, librarians need security guards, the free word is threatened by religious fantasies, our ambulance need police escort to go into the areas where the darker skinned people dwell...



And this is in a country where they get several hundred dollars, or several hundred euros, a month, from the state - for free.

While also having full access to the whole wellfare society with medicine, pensions, child care, education....

Yeah, education.... Don't get me STARTED on the effects having African instead of Swedish kids have on the education...




DAMN MAN, have you taught African kids much? I have, and it's an absolute HORROR.

I remember this guy - 12 years old - who I actually had to go down to the level of:

HERE are 2 (two) blocks.

THIS is 1 (one) block.

How many ONE blocks, can you fit into this TWO block opening here.



Between him, the Arab with weak Swedish, and the blind kid... There sure as HELL was not much time over for the other 27 kids in the classroom. YEY for living in a nation where anyone not agreeing to "every humans equal value" is a rotten racist.


It's still a success story though, as this kid 2 years later raped a girl in the school, and was forced out... So YEY, success, the class got rid of him. The girl is still traumatized for life, though. Of course.

[Kadagar_AV]

I would like to clarify one thing...

When I left teaching, the best student I had had was from Ethiopia.

My personal biggest success was this former Yugoslavian kid, who went from an ADHD-diagnose and criminality to, just this month, getting into university.

I personally just think I was the first teacher who asked him "is that the best you can do" when he handed stuff in, instead of taking it and grading it. But whatever, his dad sent me a big flower bouquet to celebrate. So I must have had some impact.

I have done my UTTERMOST to try to stop a female mutilation, only to be let down by the more accepting society around me. I actually thought about going over to the fathers house with a baseball bat, even.

But then, I decided it's better join politics and get to the root of the problems, than it is to put myself in jail.


Scream BLOODY RACIST all you want, I still won't see it, and the people who's life I touched, in my career of:

1. Educating in a resort where people come from all over the world.

2. Educating is schools with diverse cultures.

... Would all laugh if I was called racist.

YOU HAVE TO be able to separate how I act in my personal life, from what conclusions I draw from my life and the political MUCH larger processes at work.



A racist is for me, at least, someone who wouldn't offer their best shirt when a black guy is wounded...


That's not me, I am the guy saying schools results will continue to sink, and more girls will be raped, if we continue this madness we do in Sweden.

[Husar]

YOU HAVE TO be able to separate how I act in my personal life, from what conclusions I draw from my life and the political MUCH larger processes at work.

So you claim schizophrenia?

[Kadagar_AV]

So you claim schizophrenia?

Nope, but I am slightly worried about your reading comprehension.

[Montmorency]

Schizodoxy, actually. We've been over this.

[Kadagar_AV]

Schizodoxy, actually. We've been over this.

Yes, and it still isn't a word.

[Montmorency]

Behold Kadagar's unimpeachable authority on the compositionality of words.

[Kadagar_AV]

Behold Kadagar's unimpeachable authority on the compositionality of words.

Don't read me wrong...

I get that you LOVE advanced words, but with that said, when you start to make them up from your own head, you could at least offer an explanation.

That would be very kwerkintishy of you :)

*another word for polite, I just made it up, it means "when someone asks someone to use English more suitable for a larger audiance than their own mind"*

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Behold Kadagar's unimpeachable authority on the compositionality of words.

Well that wasn't a word.

Defy my Latanatis, I dare thou!

[Husar]

Nope, but I am slightly worried about your reading comprehension.

Were you not saying that you do not want these children in Sweden but you smiled at them and helped them as best as you could?
So you contribute to the multicultural society but when you go home you think it is a bad thing?

To me that sounds slightly schizophrenic. Or maybe you are just too afraid to let people outside the internet know what you really think, but that doesn't quite mix with your claim that you are always 100% honest and can't lie.

[Kadagar_AV]

Were you not saying that you do not want these children in Sweden but you smiled at them and helped them as best as you could?
So you contribute to the multicultural society but when you go home you think it is a bad thing?

To me that sounds slightly schizophrenic. Or maybe you are just too afraid to let people outside the internet know what you really think, but that doesn't quite mix with your claim that you are always 100% honest and can't lie.

Ah, I see where you got it wrong.



Can you tell the difference between:

* Doing your damned best to make something work, eventhough you at large are against it?

and

* Mental disorder.


EDIT: Also, that you have to DO your damned bestestest to make it even fictionally work - is a reason in and of itself as to why you would get the opinions you do?





People outside of the internet have known my exact position on this since 1994. I have never shied away from a discussion once.

Except with my grandparents, out of respect. They lived in a world where "refugees" were blonde cute little WWII escapees, not in a world where refugees are black/arabic Islamist men, by large. And as they were more bothered with things like cancer and shit, I just did my best for them and shut up :)

[Montmorency]

Defy my Latanatis, I dare thou!

Schizo = Split

Phren = Mind

Schizophrenia = Split Mind


Orthos = Straight, Correct

Doxa = Opinion

Orthodoxy = Correct Opinion


Schizodoxy = Split Opinion

Greek > Latin

[Husar]

Ah, I see where you got it wrong.



Can you tell the difference between:

* Doing your damned best to make something work, eventhough you at large are against it?

and

* Mental disorder.

If

you

can

explain

the

difference

between

:

*referring to a mental disorder

to make a point


and


*actually meaning a mental disorder


Or maybe just why you would contribute to a system that you think makes your country worse? Why try your best to make it work if you believe it can never work?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Were you not saying that you do not want these children in Sweden but you smiled at them and helped them as best as you could?
So you contribute to the multicultural society but when you go home you think it is a bad thing?

To me that sounds slightly schizophrenic. Or maybe you are just too afraid to let people outside the internet know what you really think, but that doesn't quite mix with your claim that you are always 100% honest and can't lie.

Or maybe he's actually a nice guy underneath it all?

Perhaps Kadagar has no problem with one traumatised African but takes exception to 1,000 at once?

There's a certain amount of cognitive dissonance, to be sure, but it's not unreasonable to see individuals as different to groups - one screwed up foreigner isn't likely to harm your country but thousands might - and currently are across much of Europe.

[Husar]

Or maybe he's actually a nice guy underneath it all?

Perhaps Kadagar has no problem with one traumatised African but takes exception to 1,000 at once?

There's a certain amount of cognitive dissonance, to be sure, but it's not unreasonable to see individuals as different to groups - one screwed up foreigner isn't likely to harm your country but thousands might - and currently are across much of Europe.

But each of those 1000 is just one guy to his respective teacher, Kadagar claims to think in terms of the larger political picture, then surely he would be aware of it and know that he is contributing to the system at large? It's a bit like saying that your vote in a democracy has no impact and therefore it does not matter who you vote for.

[Kadagar_AV]

I actually went to see the medicine because of the cognitive dissonance...

They thought Aspergers at first, but then they realised I was just very intelligent and honest.


Individuals are individuals, that's how it is. However cultural trends, world wide politics and economics, religions... That's something else. I can love my niece and will help her to be an awesome skier eventhough her dad is Arab.

I would have prefered if my niece had made a better choice than him, sure. But now it's family, and I will do my best to make it work.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you are accusing me of being brain damaged, sick, or what?





EDIT: And again, I am completely open.

When I visited my niece last I had a beanie with my political logo on it - the only political party out of 8 sitting saying we should lower immigration. So it's not like not everyone know EXACTLY where i stand, however, that has nothing with me inviting her husband out for tea (as he don't drink), nor does it mean I wont teach this kid to ski daaaaaaaaamn better than her class mates before their annual school ski trip.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

But each of those 1000 is just one guy to his respective teacher, Kadagar claims to think in terms of the larger political picture, then surely he would be aware of it and know that he is contributing to the system at large? It's a bit like saying that your vote in a democracy has no impact and therefore it does not matter who you vote for.

Right, and every guy in IS is someone's son.

There are people, individuals, and there are communities.

Are Arabs bad? Well, I had to live with a Syrian Arab and he was pretty horrific, when the university finally three him out of the house they couldn't rent out his room until they'd had pest control in and done a deep clean. He used to have his friends round, I think some of them were British-Arabs because they habitually spoke English together.

They were all terrible people.

On the other hand there are some lovely Arab academics at the university.

[Husar]

That's something else. I can love my niece and will help her to be an awesome skier eventhough her dad is Arab.

I would have prefered if my niece had made a better choice than him, sure.

See? This is another problem, there are so many things about Sweden that I do not know, for example that children can choose their father there. Or maybe it's just my reading comprehension?

[Kadagar_AV]

META note:

How come a discussion about immigration in Europe is turning into a "Quick everyone, let's blame anyone against it on being mental".




So Germany just decided to make a 180 degree turn and stop the damn idiocy they were at.... They even sidestep EU-rules of free travel just to CLOSE OF THEIR DAMN BORDERS.


My question for Husar:


* Did you do it because you were afraid the beer festival might have been disturbed?

* Or did you do it because you realised that the policy you only some days ago were OH SO PROUD OF proved to be absolutely idiotic?

[Kadagar_AV]

See? This is another problem, there are so many things about Sweden that I do not know, for example that children can choose their father there. Or maybe it's just my reading comprehension?

Yes, your reading comprehension again... A child is in my world a direct result of the father, and the mother.

Seriously, what is your point?

[Kadagar_AV]

Schizo = Split

Phren = Mind

Schizophrenia = Split Mind


Orthos = Straight, Correct

Doxa = Opinion

Orthodoxy = Correct Opinion


Schizodoxy = Split Opinion

Greek > Latin

I speak greek to my horse.


And if you for some stupid reason start using greek instead of English or the latin roots the medical world is built upon, you might at the VERY least give a heads up.

Again, stop being so kwerkintish.

















*I am SO proud of the word I just made up, it has been proved useful twice already, in this thread alone!!*

[CrossLOPER]

Seriously, what is your point?
Biologically speaking, how does one choose their father?

[Kadagar_AV]

Biologically speaking, how does one choose their father?

Because the "niece" was directed to my niece, and the "her" was directed to her daughter...




EDIT: I get that the sentence was confusing, but if you look at the post before it, it makes perfect sense.


BUT CHEERS FOR YOU WONDERFUL PEOPLE STILL SLAMMING ME AFTER I SAID STOP AND TRIED TO STEER THE TOPIC TOWARDS WHAT WE ARE HERE FOR, WHICH LAST I CHECKED, WAS NOT LET-KAD-SHOW-YOU-YOUR-OWN-FAILURES-AT-ATTACKING-HIS-PERSON-OR-GRAMMAR.







So....








Germany, closed of their borders... Because of beerfest? They realised it was absolutely moronic, or what?

[AE Bravo]

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/news/middle-east/2015/09/15/Syrian-refugees-don-t-want-to-camp-in-Saudi-Arabia-They-want-a-future.html

[Husar]

EDIT: I get that the sentence was confusing, but if you look at the post before it, it makes perfect sense.

No, no it does not.

[Kadagar_AV]

No, no it does not.

what's the problem then?

[Kadagar_AV]

Love how you still focus on me instead of the betterment of Germany or Europe... Is this the new BR standard?



I love you all, you guys rock my world! :2thumbsup:

[Viking]

First of all, I am not - to take an example, saying everyone in Japan is intelligent. What I am saying is that if we take in loads of people from Japan to - say - Sweden, school results are likely to go up.

What I am saying is: how do long you expect that increase to last, when the Japanese gradually adopt a Swedish lifestyle?


That is not even prejudice, it's fact. Hey, I even heard that in the USA, students are told to "keep down" their asianess if they want to get into uni, as there are so many asians there and the unis try to run race-programs to make society more "equal" for the blacks.

Again, the assumption here is that the difference will last. If you travelled from Rome to Sweden during ancient times, you could easily be led to the conclusion that Sweden will remain a place where hardly anyone can read, while Rome will remain the shining jewel of civilisation. What actually happened is that the rest of Europe over time exceeded the original Roman standards by a lot.


How the HELL can you from anything I have written drawn the conclusion that I would in any way support expelling Swedes below a certain IQ score?

I didn't. That was part of the point. Much concern about unintelligent foreigners. Equally unintelligent Swedes? Nah, what's the problem? They are probably stupid in an OK manner, or something.


AND LOL, do you actually live in a world, where if you wanted a guard dog, you would not be able to see any difference between dog breeds, as DNA can't prove who would be the most adequate?

How do you go about finding out which breed is most suitable for guard duty? By teaching at a dog school where one breed comes from homes we're they've been trained well, one breed coming from a home where their owners gave them way too little food and one breed that came in from the street? You think that would be a fair comparison?

No, you'll utilise the fact that dogs have been bred with specific purposes in mind. This allows the different dog breeds to become caricatures where they can have exaggerated characteristics relative to the average, and where the original breeders will know which traits were selected for - information that can be passed on over generations.

Humans weren't bred in any similar fashion, so you don't have that kind of information for them. Comparing breeding of dogs to human evolution is hardly useful in this context for such reasons.


DAMN MAN, have you taught African kids much? I have, and it's an absolute HORROR.

Look what I just wrote:


Nutrition could influence, education could influence; and effects could accumulate over generations.

Either you don't comprehend the argument, or you just skipped right over it; or you are just looking for another excuse to rant. Which one is it?

[Fragony]

Germany, closed of their borders... Because of beerfest? They realised it was absolutely moronic, or what?

ring ring, 2007 is calling you Mutti Merkel. This enormous clusterfuck of bad decisions is going to hit hard next elections. Not only did that plumb eastblock workhorse promise the impossible, she also turns out to be unthrustworthy. Absolutily moronic covers it allright. I still love her because I despise the EU and she destroys it just by grabbing at straws. Got to love the combination of panic and narcism.

It gets more hilarious, Germany has actually resorted to blackmail, member-states are to be getting less money if they don't solve Germany's problems. But they are smart enough to understand that solving Germany's idiocy is much more expensive and costly, both materialistic and cultural

[wooly_mammoth]

Much as I dislike Viktor Orban for his past attitude towards my country, I think he's the man of the hour. Way to go for protecting your borders and the rest of the Union. Hungary has plans for extending the fence around their frontier with Romania as well, but the authorities here, instead of giving a taffing hand at helping them out with that, are naturally screaming "fascists!" all over the place. Such idiots.

[Gilrandir]

Much as I dislike Viktor Orban for his past attitude towards my country, I think he's the man of the hour. Way to go for protecting your borders and the rest of the Union. Hungary has plans for extending the fence around their frontier with Romania as well, but the authorities here, instead of giving a taffing hand at helping them out with that, are naturally screaming "fascists!" all over the place. Such idiots.

I agree. Borders must be borders (at least the outer borders of the EU) with fences and moats. In that case you can easily seal them against any contingencies.

[Montmorency]

Much as I dislike Viktor Orban for his past attitude towards my country, I think he's the man of the hour. Way to go for protecting your borders and the rest of the Union. Hungary has plans for extending the fence around their frontier with Romania as well, but the authorities here, instead of giving a taffing hand at helping them out with that, are naturally screaming "fascists!" all over the place. Such idiots.

I know, right? His fascism stands independent of border fences.

[Husar]

Some mayor of a German city said he'd like to trade some eastern euros for more Syrian refugees if he could during a conference where everyone was asked to talk about problems openly.

So what makes the eastern euros worse than the Syrians? I can't really explain it using the theories of this thread.

[wooly_mammoth]

Well, along with the many specialists that left Romania for western countries (medics, scientists so on), also a lot of organized crime moved there for the bigger plunder. Romania thus became a much safer place, at the expense of our western neighbors.

[Montmorency]

First-generation immigrant mafias are a well-known phenomenon all over the world. The good news is that they don't tend to last beyond the first two generations, especially if the society at-large is not violent or chaotic, and the immigrants have interest and opportunities in, uh, safer work.

[Husar]

Well, along with the many specialists that left Romania for western countries (medics, scientists so on), also a lot of organized crime moved there for the bigger plunder. Romania thus became a much safer place, at the expense of our western neighbors.

But if I'm to believe this thread, the Syrians are here for the same reason, so how would the trade help the mayor?
And in the spirit of the thread, why are the Romanians obviously inherently culturally inferior to the Syrians?

[Viking]

Here's the solution: send them to Brazil (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-34264937)


"When I found out that the Brazilian Embassy in Beirut was offering 'laissez-passer' (right of passage) to refugees of the war in Syria, it was the best option for me. Why pay $3,000 or $4,000 (£1,955-£2,607) to get smuggled across the sea and risk drowning, when for half of that price I can fly to Brazil?"

[wooly_mammoth]

And in the spirit of the thread, why are the Romanians obviously inherently culturally inferior to the Syrians?

I think that flak is actually directed at the gypsy minority, which overall is indeed quite primitive. These people however never claim to be gypsies in western countries, but rather "romanians" so I guess that's how that went by.

[Pannonian]

Some mayor of a German city said he'd like to trade some eastern euros for more Syrian refugees if he could during a conference where everyone was asked to talk about problems openly.

So what makes the eastern euros worse than the Syrians? I can't really explain it using the theories of this thread.

Maybe the German city is lacking ready money, so they're willing to take in Syrians from eastern European countries if the latter are willing to pay the city some euros. Trading eastern euros for Syrians may be a good way of making money, although I'm not sure where this stands in human trafficking.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

But each of those 1000 is just one guy to his respective teacher, Kadagar claims to think in terms of the larger political picture, then surely he would be aware of it and know that he is contributing to the system at large? It's a bit like saying that your vote in a democracy has no impact and therefore it does not matter who you vote for.

OK - so - lets say a Syrian family moves in next door, lets say they're Syriac Christians even and they're in Germany because they're fleeing IS? Great right? Nobody, not even Kad is going to object to one refugee family on the street, even if they don't understand the local way of doing things they can and will learn, their children will go to the local school and get a good, German, education.

Excellent.

Now, suppose half the houses on the street are taken up by Syriac Christians who, having clumped together, don't integrate but stay huddled as a group. Now, this is understandable but it presents a bit of a problem when, say, the men start of congregate in the even outside their houses and get a bit drunk and rowdy rather than going to the tavern and getting rowdy there and then rolling home, which is more or less what I assume German men do. It gets a bit more awkward when all the children clump together at school and speak their native language together because they'll be much harder for the children to police - to know if someone is being bullied etc.

This is a bit of a problem but with the effort of the local town government you can probably smooth things over if you get the adults of the dozen or so families together and explain that you want them there but that certain things they are doing are not considered appropriate in Germany.

OK - now three streets - bigger problem, harder to handle.

Now a whole district of the town - at this point you're basically going to have a self contained community, there's no real chance of "integration" into German society, the best you can hope for is co-operation and coexistence, but you now have a new, separate, community in the town.

Now, different people have different thresholds they are willing to accept, some will accept a single family, some a few in one street, some will accept whole districts in towns and cities being transformed so long as they obey the law - and some will make excuses for the newcomers and claim we shouldn't be so hard on them for not following our laws.

Kad is clearly fairly far down on the scale, probably more than one family to a street but below the level where you get any clumping together on street corners.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I think that flak is actually directed at the gypsy minority, which overall is indeed quite primitive. These people however never claim to be gypsies in western countries, but rather "romanians" so I guess that's how that went by.

Ah, actually they describe themselves as "Romani" which used to be spelled "Romany" but has now been Latinised and is therefor indistinguishable from the Latin Romani which of course means "of the Romans" and which people now assume must refer to modern Romanians.

Cunning, eh?