View Full Version : Creative Assembly MTW add-on = VIKING INVASION
ShadesWolf
11-22-2002, 08:02
In the Christmas edition of PC Gamer UK - on page 16 the following appeared......
Quote[/b] ] ...The Spy is tantalisingly close to a revelation from CA concerning the sequel to MTW, but in the meantime he can tell you that there will also be an addon pack for Medieval, just as the Mongol Invasion provided extra play for Shogun:Total War. The Spy has heard that the MTW add-on will be subtitled VIKING INVASION, which should provide some exciting beach-heads against terrifying long ships and plenty of action for pillage people..........
This has NOT be confirmed by Ca, so it is an unconfirmed rumour for whats its worth.
deejayvee
11-22-2002, 08:11
So would this move the start date forward a couple of hundred years?
Or would it be like the Mongol invasion where it is a whole different campaign set a couple of centuries earlier?
Sounds like the Dark Ages to me. Would be great
A.Saturnus
11-22-2002, 12:22
And I hoped for Lutheran age... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Rosacrux
11-22-2002, 12:23
hhmm.... if this is true and also was planned from the very beginning, it could shed light to the fact that the viking unit is called housecarle in the in-game files and not "viking" or whatever like that.
I don't know if I like it, though. Sounds interesting, but I think they could actually advance the time-frame this time a tad (16th century warfare) or bring it down to the demise of the Roman Empire (5th century).
Orda Khan
11-22-2002, 13:11
Well I for one am certainly not happy about this, let's hope that's all it is, a rumour. How do the Vikings fit into the eras then? I think it's a lousy idea for an add on personally and there's usually no smoke without fire, so I guess it won't be too long before we have it confirmed. As mentioned above, the Vikings were not a mediaeval force so have no place in the game and no relevance to the other factions. Fun or not, I definitely won't be buying that
.........Orda http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
The Viking Invasions
Towards the end of the eight century, the Norwegian Vikings and the Danes changed from their previous tactics of sporadic pirate-like raids to full-scale invasions.
While the Danes focused more to the eastern areas, such as France, Normandy, and England, the Norwegians hit the Shetlands, Hebrides, Isle of Man, Iceland, and Ireland.
these invasions continued right up to 1153,
not too far out of the timeline really..
Rosacrux
11-22-2002, 14:06
I don't think that what most argue here is the ...mediavility (SIC!http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif of the Vikings. They do fit into the timeframe (if you shift it to a little before - 9th, 10th century AD that is) and they had quite an impact on the medieval world (establishing themselves in Normandy and Sicily is one thing, causing the rise of the whole feudal system with their raids is another one).
But ...it just doesn't make me anxious to get the expansion pack. Which I will get anyway, but... oh, well...
I like the idea. Hope the rumor turns out to be accurate.
As far as timeline is concerned, let me add my conspiracy theory.
Notice the only mod to extend the length of the campaign is to start earlier? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Spetulhu
11-22-2002, 14:55
I hope it`s false news.
And as a related topic: although we call them vikings the northmen of old would probably kill us for it...
A viking is a person of low character who attacks without notice, preferably clobbering you from behind. He`s not a brave or honourable warrior http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Or so I`ve heard.
Erado San
11-22-2002, 15:10
Sharp observation, Apeboy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
OK, it's an unconfirmed rumour, and we have no clue about the actual features at all, so to say now you like it or not is pretty premature http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
The Mongol Invasions add-on for STW was also a what-if scenario... the Mongol Invasions never happened either. I think maybe the Vikings Invasions would be something like that... Starting time could be before the actual starting time of MTW, and it could be something like 'What if the Vikings did maintain an organised momentum and instead of being 'just raiders' for so long actually did manage to pull of a full bleed invasion into Mainland Europe?'
All speculation of course... I think there is good potential here though
Quote[/b] (Spetulhu @ Nov. 22 2002,07:55)]And as a related topic: although we call them vikings the northmen of old would probably kill us for it...
A viking is a person of low character who attacks without notice, preferably clobbering you from behind. He`s not a brave or honourable warrior http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Or so I`ve heard.
Then you have heard wrong...
The name is actually more a name for the Norwegian Vikings than the Danes. The word "Vig" from Danish and old Nordic (pronounced "vih") implies a deep bay, but not as deep as a fjord. "King" I'm not too sure about, but it generally accepted that it means "man" of some sort.
About the x-pac... Hmmm... I guess we will see a lot of Spearmen and Peasants if it is true. But perhaps the Housecarles will be revived?
I suspect it will not expand the current campaigns, but rather be a shorter time (100 years perhaps) with seasonal turns, as there were wintercampaigns by both the Vikings and their 'victims'. Also it would be a good way to mark the shift from raids to invasions (raids = summer, invasions and raids in force = all year).
I'm personally a little sceptical about this... How will the Viking units be? It is now a not too strong unit, then how will they make it more potent besides making the opposition weaker?
But I must say it is interesting.
MonkeyMan
11-22-2002, 15:54
Ok then assuming this is correct, how will this change the game. I can see it expanding to include scandinavia in more detail and possibly iceland. But what interesting units would the vikings have that the danes don't already. You get viking warriors and longships and then..... nope i can't think of anything else. Other than that i would expect it like the MI with each faction getting one or two new toys and the bugs being fixed. Call me a cynic but a couple of hundred years in addition, or going back further to the fall of the roman empire would be more fun.
rasoforos
11-22-2002, 16:01
i d like to see the war between the byzantine empire and its foes , i d like to see persia added and bulgaria as well.
MM, I guess, as said before, the Housecarles will return for the 'victim' side(s). For the Vikings I'm pretty sure that you know that the main weapon for the Vikings was not the axe but their longsword. The axe was widely use compared to other cultures, but still not a common weapon. So we will perhaps see Vikings as they are now, Vikings with swords (how they will be I don't know), some sort of Viking Longbowmen (they had longbows but it was only drawn to the cheek not the shoulder, just like a shortbow) and perhaps mounted Vikings (they were very capable riders, but small size of the Longboats didn't really let them use horses in their raids).
Sandy-San
11-22-2002, 17:12
I can't see how this would work as an add-on either. you could make a new campaign focused on viking raids, but you'd need a new map that would only focus on scandawegia and the north, otherwise you are only talking about less than a dozen provinces - and i can't see CA giving us that much.
STW MI worked coz although it was a 'fictitious' scenario, it was feasible (divine wind and all that). It also gave you some different units, and a different approach to playing, and the horde was truly a threat to all japan. vikings just aren't about to overrun the whole of the MTW map as it stands, there just weren't enough of them, and they aren't different enough to the units we've got already.
MTW is just so comprehensive that I can't see what else they could add. a beefed-up golden horde maybe?
The_Dude
11-22-2002, 17:19
Sandy Man, you maybe forgot that viking went actually every where in europe, viking raids were reported in France, they were sealing on the Seine and were near Paris so deeply in the land, and I am almoust sure that all the country near atlantic/mediateranen coast have taken some viking raids.
Lord Romulous
11-22-2002, 17:41
all i wish for in a add on pack is for them to add in all the things they wanted to do for MTW but did not have the time/funds.
eg more involved diplomacy
more involved castle battles.
even simple sea battles would be cool.
go to work on the battle map to improve the graphics. add cities in the 3d map
lots more as others have suggusted.
if they add new interesting things i will buy it, but if it is mtw with new faction shields, new town names and changed stat units then i will snore and go to sleep.
and it would be good if any fixes/features could be retro applied to mtw original.
Magyar Khan
11-22-2002, 17:44
well a viking invasion. if it means we get another patch than its a good idea. like in old shog, it would be better if they concentrate on teh real problems first before moving on.
Cool then I can play as my farfathers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I have to agree with Lord Romulous. Why not polish up and enhance the current product rather than introduce a vaguely related expansion and all of the new problems that will arise with it?
yep mag,
they bring a add-on to earn some more money and still they brougth just 1 patch.....löl
lets hope they go and start to fix some problems as well.
koc
Viking invasion? Count me out.
There are still bugs in MP to be fixed before I'll even consider spending money on an add on, especially an add one that kinda negates the "Medieval" part of "Medieval: Total War".
Kraellin
11-22-2002, 19:35
lol. ok, i confess. i started the rumor. i'm the 'spy'. i just wanted to start a little whining-before-the-fact thread to spice things up a bit, and seems it worked ;)
K.
Lord Krazy
11-22-2002, 23:06
ye I heard they were bringing out WW2 mod
with atomic bombs.
I starts in 1945
and you get one turn http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Quote[/b] (Inferno @ Nov. 22 2002,12:12)]Viking invasion? Count me out.
There are still bugs in MP to be fixed before I'll even consider spending money on an add on, especially an add one that kinda negates the "Medieval" part of "Medieval: Total War".
Duh, I've seen two people say this - so let's get some history straight and stop with the erroneous comments. The time period after the fall of the Roman Empire up until the fall of Constantinople were the Medieval Age or Middle Ages if you like. The Medieval Age did not start in the year 1000. An expansion based on the Viking invasions accurately fits into medieval times.
Grifman
Vlad The Impaler
11-23-2002, 00:28
viking invasion ? sounds silly for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
Spetulhu
11-23-2002, 02:48
viking
\Vi"king\, n. [Icel. v[=i]kingr, fr. v[=i]k a bay, inlet.] One belonging to the pirate crews from among the Northmen, who plundered the coasts of Europe in the eighth, ninth, and tenth centuries.
Of grim Vikings, and the rapture Of the sea fight, and the capture, And the life of slavery. --Longfellow.
Note: Vikings differs in meaning from sea king, with which frequently confounded. ``The sea king was a man connected with a royal race, either of the small kings of the country, or of the Haarfager family, and who, by right, received the title of king as soon he took the command of men, although only of a single ship's crew, and without having any land or kingdom . . . Vikings were merely pirates, alternately peasants and pirates, deriving the name of viking from the vicks, wicks, or inlets, on the coast in which they harbored with their long ships or rowing galleys.'' --Laing.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
People of low character, that is.
King David
11-23-2002, 03:31
Sounds almost as rough as living in my neighborhood
http://www.castletrash.com/animation/plani89.gif
I have to re-iterate,
this is just a rumour,
and quite possibly a speculative one at that,
This may simply have been an idea tossed around the board room,
or overheard down the pub by PCGamer UK's "spy",
Although one cannot deny PC Gamer seems to be on the ball when it comes to the Total War series,
PC Gamer UK had the Medieval Demo ages before anyone else...
so much earlier in fact that several people had copies of PC Gamer UK imported to the US and Australia just so they could get their hands on it...
personally i like the idea, the Viking Era played a huge part in the history of Europe,
Normans were descendants of the NorthMen, and they wound up ruling England, and eventually England wound up ruling half the world...
we could have just as easily said
"The Sun Never Set's on the Viking Empire"
========
IIRC
the name Viking comes from the term "to go a'viking", which means to go raiding...
The first recorded Viking raid on England In 793 AD sacked the Monestary on the island of Lindisfarne, just off the English coast.
The Vikings dominated Europe for the next 250 years.
They founded Dublin in 836 AD and sacked Hamburg in 845 AD.
They pioneered trade with Byzantium and in the process founded Russia.
They established settlements in Iceland (870 AD) and Greenland (985 AD) and set foot in America (1000 AD).
I read somewhere that the last Viking raid on England was in 1153 A.D. at Hartlepool, an invasion led by King Eystein, but that is not true
Regular "invasions" into the Tyne still occur, although on a more friendly basis these days. The Norwegians have given up their longboats in favour of the soft option, the DFDS ferry from Kristiansand...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The Last Emperor
11-23-2002, 04:54
If it is just a speculation the let them know that most of us would rather those stuffs mentioned by Lord Romulous. And one of the things that they can do with the present version is to unlock the Hordes for us to control. It will be an attempt rip-off if its just "Dark Age" to be added to our choice of era with practically the game game play and units with new colour to match. There are quite a number of features to be improved in with the present version so i guess the way to a customer's satisfaction is to heed what most are requesting for regarding this topic.
Quote[/b] (The Last Emperor @ Nov. 22 2002,21:54)]If it is just a speculation the let them know that most of us would rather those stuffs mentioned by Lord Romulous. And one of the things that they can do with the present version is to unlock the Hordes for us to control. It will be an attempt rip-off if its just "Dark Age" to be added to our choice of era with practically the game game play and units with new colour to match. There are quite a number of features to be improved in with the present version so i guess the way to a customer's satisfaction is to heed what most are requesting for regarding this topic.
Most of us aren't the mass market,
Rest assured CA will introduce those features which are feasable within the project timeline,
They are well aware of your wishes for the next release,
and if you have posted bugs in the Dungeon's bug thread they are well aware of those also.
You can already "unlock" the horde for play, and some members down in the Dungeon are attempting to add even more diversity to playing the mongols.
If you post your wishes for the Mongol Horde in the Dungeon the modders will see them, and if any of them are possible within the modding capabilities that Medieval gave the community, then someone down there will most likely make a good go at adding those features for you
:)
As for Rip-off comment, i didn't see that many people complaining about rip-offs in the endless series of AoE versions, and even replicants, StarWars Battlegrounds plays remarkably similar to AoE...just new units, terrains and resources, otherwise - same=same...
V.I.
The Viking Invasion. Er... no thanks.
I'm sure the Vikings were lovely guys, and the folks who lived in Coastal towns must have dreaded them as much as the Golden Horde, but let's be realistic.
The Vikings sacked towns. Not garrissons. Now I'm not taking anything away from Viking Prowess (who remembers the Viking from WWF? Huff Huff http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif ), but they were raiders, not invaders. A Unit for the Scandanavians & Danes, at best in a game like MTW.
Rewind a bit to 400 A.D. and sure, you've got Angles and Saxons and Jutes knocking about all over the place, moving into Britain, displacing the Celts. That was a resettlement program to deal with overpopulation, but even when they were seeking new lands, it was hardly the thing that caused the people of Constantinople to worry much.
Medieval Total War is not STW with a face lift. I don't expect any expansion pack to be an M.I. knock off either.
Azrael
Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ Nov. 22 2002,21:06)]ye I heard they were bringing out WW2 mod
with atomic bombs.
I starts in 1945
and you get one turn http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
There goes France.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] ]but they were raiders, not invaders. A Unit for the Scandanavians & Danes, at best in a game like MTW.
No, they were both- as they invaded England and remained there for quite some time. They settled in what is now known as York or Jorvik as it was known then.
Galestrum
11-23-2002, 16:48
For the most part, the vikings were militarily insignificant.
Be honest, most of their great raids were attacks against isolated peasants and priests. Ive read a great deal about their exploits in the east and the west - and their military abilities would be the least important thing about them.
Almost every time they fought a "real" professional army they had their arses handed to them. The extent of their military invasions amounted to settling parts of Ireland, Scotland, England, and the province of Normandy in the west.
All those countries were very weak and factionalised. Geographical England for instance was composed of about 20 different Kingdoms at the beginining of the viking era Ireland was very similarly decentralized. Even with such disunited and disorganizzed oposition they held on to the whole of "england" for only a brief time under canute and his son (for a few years before he handed the kingdom back)
Certainly viking raids were scary, but so were the other deluge of raids from (1) local lords (2) other small kingdoms (3) and other many invaders.
Sadly, the things that vikings should be most noted for are always relegated to the back pages of histroy. They set up vast trade networks, settled and ruled a large portion of what would become russia, designed the best ships for their time, and were great explorers, these accomplishments and others are far more important than a few half arse raids against farmers and priests. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
1dread1lahll
11-23-2002, 16:54
It goes back in time... great
I wish i could be as exited as you guys.
Talk of an expansion set already? It's very early and the original game is still in need of patches
This should of course be priority http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Maybe if patches are released to perhaps bring the game to its most reliable state (my game has crashed 3 times) i will consider spending more $$$ on Expansion Sets
This is a rule of mine, If the original isnt up to scratch, They dont get anymore of my $$$ until it is.
Hence my silly sig
Galestrum
11-23-2002, 17:14
oh yes, and to make an on topic post
i agree too early for an expansion, this game is FAR from finished. Furthermore, like stated by others, if an expansion comes i would like to see a great many improvements, not just "here are 20 new viking units and a map of NW europe...go plunder"
Our modders can do that for free and perhaps do a better job. Additionally any feature upgrades need to be retrofitted to MTW, meaning if diplomact is enhanced in the expansion it better work the same for MTW.
If an expansion occures, i personally would like to see one focused on the renaissance, or the dark ages as a whole, not just "vikings".
Another possible thing id be willing to purchase, *IF* their are major feature enhancements, would be focused campaigns, for instance a "byzantine" area campaign, or a "hundred years war" campaign, or a "crusade campaign", or "wipe out the baltic pagans" campaign, stuff like that, that is more focused like the original shogun was.
As long as feature and AI improvements were added and were retroactive, i would prby but all 4 of those expansions and many more.
All they would require are some new units and maps - NO big deal to my mind - just the feature/AI improvements
If that occurred i would but a gazillion medieval expansions - if not, well i guess i wouldnt buy any http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I could swear I posted a message to this thread last night. This is what I get for staying up till 4am
Personally I am really looking forward to this expansion pack Sure I would love it if CA rolled back the clock a little further to encompass the Umayyad expansion into Spain and the rise of the Franks (complete with the epic battle of Tours scenario) but you can't have it all. However, I simply do not understand people's lack of enthusiasm over the primary subject matter of the expansion pack. While the Vikings' 'contribution' to civilization during their height may have paled in comparison to that of the Byzantines, Abbassids (Egyptians) and Umayyads they are undoubtedly the most recognizable faction in the eyes of the gaming masses. Simply put, it's a matter of sales as there are alarmingly few Westerners who know who in blazes the Umayyads and Abbassids were (let alone the Byzantines). I'll wager you would be hard pressed to find someone who didn't know who the Vikings were Besides, what could be more fun to a pimply faced teenager than leading a murderous Viking horde on a merry sojourn of raping and pillaging in some foreign land?... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif So long as CA does not neglect to represent the campaigns and unique units of the more prominent factions of the same time period I am more than happy to own a Viking-centric expansion pack.
However, I'd pay $20+ for an expansion pack that concentrated solely on delivering substantially improved AI, hundreds of additional battle maps and much improved user interface screens (i.e. lists).
I don't really care for the "Viking Invasion" title though. I much prefer "Medieval: The Pillage People, or "Medieval: The Vikings (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Longboat Navy)"... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
Leet Eriksson
11-24-2002, 17:13
Viking invasion...sounds interesting,maybe a true succesor of STW where you play a viking tribe and take over scandanavia(or whatever you call it),also if i may remember correctly they did reach north africa and fought muslims there too
Faisal, my good old friend http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
I don't know if they went to Africa and pillaged there, must have been rather unsuccessful, but they raided the Spanish shore, Sicily and thought they pillaged Rome (but it was only an outlying town). So they had an impact all around Europe. And remember as Galestrum I think said, they traded like nobody else, so they most likely had traders in all the big places in Europe and North Africa.
With that in mind I suspect a big deal will be about trade and such.
But still, raiding will most likely be fun.
Vlad The Impaler
11-24-2002, 20:47
i think that is more appropiate for the period of the game an add-on with mongols;
ICantSpellDawg
11-24-2002, 20:55
id love it if they made an expansion not only based on the norsemen, but also the "barbarian" continental peoples. it deffinatly fits into the time period of the dark ages and it would allow you to play as the people who started the roots for the larger feudal societies prior to the post carolingian big shots - there would be PLENTY of new units
Leet Eriksson
11-24-2002, 21:19
heya kraxis http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
although they did not have very succesful raids in north africa(due to the long journey and attrition,but there fighting was impressive),they did however trade with the egyptians and brought them slaves(these slaves would later become mamelukes)and other profitable items.
deejayvee
11-25-2002, 05:37
Some Vikings went on crusades too, didn't they?
Leet Eriksson
11-25-2002, 11:19
they did,but thats when they had become civlized to understand what a crusade is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ,btw as an expansion hopefully they will make raids and small battles alot more common i'd like to see you invade an enemy faction and avoid all the patrols then pillage and loot and escapeand do some guerrilla wars too hehehe
Vikings on a Crusade... Well, I can only say that it is an odd thought. The Vikings began to fade out as Christianity advanced. The very basis for their way of fighting and lust for battle came from their old beliefs. Eventhough Crist was first shown as a strong warrior, by the time of the first Crusade the normal christian beliefs had settled in Denmark and most of Sweden and Norway.
But I would like to have seen some of those Viking vs Berber battles. Two very different ways of fighting. Faisal have you got some links or something?
So the slaves went from Tralls to Mamlukes. Hmmm... quite an advancement. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I can just imagine an English Crusader facing off an Irish Mamluke.
Leet Eriksson
11-25-2002, 18:08
Alot of mamelukes are of different nationalties,so chances are high that you'll find irish mamelukes,the egyptians even had italian mamelukes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif (brought from sicily and southern italy)as for a viking on crusades here is a really good link called "Viking" pilgramage to the holyland:
[URL=http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/journals/EH/EH34/browne34.html]
really interesting site btw http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Galestrum
11-25-2002, 18:32
i doubt thered be many if any irish mamelukes...most of the eastern med slave trade came thru the russian rivers > black sea > constantinople or russia > land route between black and caspian seas
the slaves would mostly be slavic/turkic/finn in origin (people inhabiting those areas)
as far as i know the term slave comes from slav, as i recall reading, not 100% sure on that
and yes one shouldnt confuse the normans/danes etc of 1066 with the vikings of the 8-900s, it would be the equivalent of calling americans, british
Vikings raided muslim Spanish and N.African shores some time before their exctinction. They succesfully did that for 1-2 years destroing the peacefull and undefended vllages and towns. After that the Maurs entirely destroyed their fleet at a naval battle and pushed them back. A year later Vikings where back only for having their ground raiders ENTIRELY eliminated. The Maur general came back to his king with an offering of aprox. 5000(!http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif sets of Viking heads and left arms.
Leet Eriksson
11-25-2002, 18:49
I'm not saying that all mamelukes were of european origin,its true the majority of them where from eastern europe and modern day turkey but there were still western european mamelukes(viking slave trading)also i'm 100% sure that the egyptians had italian mamelukes,ever read about Jawhar of sicily?he was a muslim italian who was a warrior and architect(great leader btw)he went to mecca for pilgramage but stayed there and spent the rest of his life there.
Are we talking about slave soldier/mercenaries in general or the actual Mamluk Empire in Egypt founded by Baybars, who defeated the Mongols at Ain Jalut? From my understanding, the latter were mostly Central Asian Turkic-speaking horse nomads.
Leet Eriksson
11-25-2002, 19:30
talking about the fatimid era mamelukes...
baybars mamelukes were mostly turkic,but fatimid era dependended on a lot of mercenaries and depended mostly on slaves for their mameluke armies.btw you sure the word slave comes from slav?romans used slaves too you know,and these slaves were not mostly slavs i think...
Galestrum
11-25-2002, 20:18
like i said i think the word slave comes from slav...every ancient culture had slaves, it doesnt mean they all used the word slave though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif i didnt say all slavs were slaves or all slaves were slavs
siciliy and italy are alot closer to egypt than ireland, not to mention both those were owned by islam polities for long periods of time , so of course that makes sense
Nice read faisal I think I will post it a little more easily for you. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Viking Pilgrimage (http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/journals/EH/EH34/browne34.html)
But lets be real, the accounts are for the leaders of the countries, who most likely were devout christians, for that was most profitable. But the population still held on to the old beliefs, though perhaps not as a religion at least as culture.
It is very correct that the vikings of the 800's is a far cry from the people in 1100. But that is because the Vikings were not a set group, but more a way to be and live.
And lastly, we were talking about Crusades not pilgrimages, despite their apparent splendor.
Gale, though you are right that 'slave' comes from 'slav' it has nothing to do with the Egyptians. It comes from the Germanic tribes in Saxony and Pommerania (back then the slavs lived all the way into Pommerania and Preussia).
barocca is right about the biz aspect of all this. Any add-on will have an easily recognizable theme just like Mongol Invasion did. Vikings fits the bill nicely. People have heard of them. An expansion will not be called "Seljuk Thunder" or "Allah akbar: Storm from Arabia".
ShadesWolf
11-26-2002, 09:11
My only comment on this are......
Just because historically is seems strange to have Vikings... We dont know what CA have in mind for this....
Mongol invasion, was a what if - It never happened, but it could have.
This new one could start almost any time before 1066...and who nows what will happen.... How much work has been put into this, Will we have sea battles finally...
All these are questions I dont know.
All I know is there was a little article in Pc Gamer that was talking about the Add-on, So I posted a copy of the words here.
Leet Eriksson
11-26-2002, 14:31
so the new expansion is a "what if the viking took over the world" scenario?i'd say they make a true sequel of STW and make you play several viking tribes and take over scandanavia.also if its true that the vikings invaded northern england then they should also add scotland and ireland as playable factions(plus northern parts of england).
Daveybaby
11-26-2002, 17:10
If they get MP campaigns working in the expansion I'll buy it even if its 'MTW: The Martian Invasion'.
Quote[/b] (Daveybaby @ Nov. 26 2002,15:10)]MP campaigns
don't mention those words in the same sentance, nay, the same paragraph, post, thread, or book
you'll have all the orgists remembering the good old days when it was promised for the original release of STW, then MI, then MTW (but by then we didn't believe them anyway http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )
GAH Somebody used the dreaded combination of MP and campaign...
GAAAHHH Now I did it
Bohemond
11-26-2002, 20:45
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Nov. 25 2002,07:43)]Vikings on a Crusade... Well, I can only say that it is an odd thought. The Vikings began to fade out as Christianity advanced. The very basis for their way of fighting and lust for battle came from their old beliefs. Eventhough Crist was first shown as a strong warrior, by the time of the first Crusade the normal christian beliefs had settled in Denmark and most of Sweden and Norway.
But I would like to have seen some of those Viking vs Berber battles. Two very different ways of fighting. Faisal have you got some links or something?
So the slaves went from Tralls to Mamlukes. Hmmm... quite an advancement. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I can just imagine an English Crusader facing off an Irish Mamluke.
Aye, but we did crusade, sort of. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
Quote[/b] (Bohemond @ Nov. 26 2002,13:45)]Aye, but we did crusade, sort of. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
Yes, I have been arguing for that myself, but remember that is was in the days of the 13th century (early 1200's). That was long past the heyday of the Vikings.
Kraellin
11-26-2002, 22:45
to CA,
NEVER, EVER, listen to the historical crowd here. NEVER ;)
for an expack i want one of two things, or both; a game mode based on trading points or money and an mp campaign (with all the mp bugs fixed of course). oh, and throw in some editors for editing the campaign maps, historical battles, a couple dancing girls, an editor for stats, a rolls royce in every box (what the heck, might as well ask for everything here), a 'tournament-campaign mode for mp games, the online stat reporter, all my debts paid off, a pay raise for gil, target, longjohn and ecs (never hurts to bribe the programmers), direct ip games, and an undisclosed favor to be named at my discretion ;) oh, and all that by next thursday would be nice. oh yeah, and a job as a consultant-designer would be nice as well.
ok, i hope i made that obvious enough to distinguish between the real and unreal :) btw, see the mp forum for some of those ideas. amp and i are re-designing the mp game :)
K.
gah, just give me a patch first that fixes all the bugs at the moment, and perhaps spend some money on a decent server.. MP is hell.. and expansion that wont fix that is more a hinderance to the TW series
TenkiSoratoti
11-27-2002, 21:35
Cheers for stealing my post (frownes salcastically), i made this post 8 mins before you because obviously i got to that bit on pcgamer 8 mins before you did. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
MagyarKhans Cham
11-28-2002, 02:54
an add on is a bit pro active from teh devs, to the devs and tehir marketeers
the best gesture that can be made:
make teh add on as u like and pricetag it as u like
BUT make it possible to join MP games bwteen MTW1 and MTWaddon owners. its ok if vikings and faction advantages are only available to teh addon owner.
and DONT try to split teh community again even before things are solved for MP itself.
furthermore a Barbaric Invasion would perhaps be better, add mongols again and even other barbaric forces from teh past like Magyars and Huns.
Vikings will not add enuf for my Khan. And solving gameplay bugs in a add on with a price of 20 dollars is plain robbery. Our Khan still challenges u to take his legal copy back and give him his 49 euros back.
Me myself am Disapointed if this is going to be the addon. But ofcourse this is not confirmed by Devs yet sooooooo..
MagyarKhans Cham
11-28-2002, 22:29
well its commonly known that teh devs arent allowed to use internet at their office. and its commonly known that they see only those things they wanna see.
And what about those like myself..who find money to splash out on add-ons very hard to come by http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif
When all i really want is good gamin with friends..no bugs.a balanced game.etc..
But my main gripe is u have given us 1 patch after 2.5 months..So that is it???????No more patches????? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Why do i see others games for online ply have patch after patch????I will not name the games but it seems to me the support has been lets say a little low.......
So u want to make more money on a add-on yet..u dont want to spend anymore time and makin existin game better
MP needs much more support The Future is online gamin and as ur well aware the amount of online gamers is increasin FasT http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Eh we need to meet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif
Afterwards maybew all will be well? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
MagyarKhans Cham
11-29-2002, 01:23
yup fast. can we beg a dev can come here?
I don't care what it is, as long as I get more bifs and More trade goods, so i can add them to my mods.
fenir http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
GilJaysmith
11-30-2002, 12:04
Quote[/b] (MagyarKhans Cham @ Nov. 28 2002,18:23)]yup fast. can we beg a dev can come here?
I love holidays...
What do you want with a dev then? :)
Gil ~ CA
It would be good to speak Face to Face etc to discuss matters..
And why couldnt a selected few be ask to attend ur HQ for a couple of hours,to discuss and iron out a few problems?
Surely this is the way forward?
I ask again r we gettin another patch for MTW?
Or r u makin the add-on....rubbin ur hands together..money..money...But a big but i dont mind ppl makin money as long as they 4full the game already been made...Come on 4months out and u makin add-on...1 patch..2.5 months wait for it...
BTW...Congrats on the SP game..i dont really ply it but it is execellant from what ive plyd...
Now lets do some more work on MP..plzs...
Online Gamin is the future of all GAMES
GilJaysmith
11-30-2002, 13:08
This is rumour control, here are the facts:
We finished the patch a lot quicker than we got it released. If we'd known about the delays we would have released it 'unofficially' ourselves.
I'm mildly confused if anyone feels offended that people are working on an addon "only four months" after MTW shipped. Addons don't just erupt, fully formed, from the head of Zeus. (The exception being "Poseidon"... sorry, couldn't resist it.) I don't know how long everyone thinks it would be decorous to wait, and whether they think we should have people working on things which don't make money (or just sitting back and rubbing their hands with fiscal glee) for some acceptable time, say six or nine months. That isn't how most businesses work and it certainly isn't how any other games company produces an addon pack. So if you're trying to make us feel ashamed about doing any other paying work while MTW is still on the shelves and you feel there are still issues with it, sorry. "That's the biz, sweetheart" as Remo Williams used to say.
The issue of people coming to visit us has been raised before, and as far as I can tell we aren't interested in this with regard to MTW (sorry, but anything else would be pussyfooting). We know what you think from the boards; we know what we can, and might want to, change in the game. So far the conclusion is, we don't need such a meeting.
Second patch: don't know for sure, but most likely not.
Gil ~ CA
NagatsukaShumi
11-30-2002, 13:31
Haven't read the post yet, so I'll post a miny post first.
I reckon that there isn't an acceptable time to release an Add-On, whenever CA feel that they want to release an Add-On pack it's up to them, they made the game in the first place so it is up to them when they release a add-on pack, not up to me, not up to any of us, it's up to CA.
In conclusion in this post, Their Game, Their Choice.
So we get 1 game...1 patch in 2.5 months and thats it:(
May i ask why other games get @ least 2 patches?
Or is the game perfect now? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I also know time is money....Im all for new and better games,but why dont they just spend a little more time makin the ones we got better??MONEY http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
solypsist
11-30-2002, 17:50
Hey Gil what we could use is some info/PR about the add-on. While you very carefully admitted people are working on it, we're still left to rumor that it's actually about vikings, etc. Can we get some sort of "unofficial" content/background on this?
GilJaysmith
11-30-2002, 19:49
Quote[/b] (solypsist @ Nov. 30 2002,10:50)]Hey Gil what we could use is some info/PR about the add-on. While you very carefully admitted people are working on it, we're still left to rumor that it's actually about vikings, etc. Can we get some sort of "unofficial" content/background on this?
Ah, such information will doubtless emerge in the fullness of time... but I don't intend to tread on our PR maestro's toes. For one thing it disturbs his concentration, for another he's much better at announcements than me, and finally, not being on the product team, I amn't in a position to discuss its contents and adequately field questions about it.
Personally I'm quite happy to leave you all rumouring about the content. Anyone who decides whether or not they want to buy the addon based on the contents of this thread is making a premature decision, but that's their prerogative.
Gil ~ CA
argh
so there will be no new patch.. meaning that the MP crashes will still remain http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
well i am at least greatful most were adressed, now for the issue of a new server.. any ideas?
Why do you think we will actually buy an add-on for a game that isn't actualy complete or stable in multiplayer ?
Well all the total wars are meant for single player and the multiplayer is just something extra they threw in. So you can tell they never intented to make multi big or spend hardly anytime at all fixing probs with it.
The vikings add-on if they make it will be for single player of course. They might fix some multi probs with the add-on, but i wouldn't get my hopes up.
You can see multiplayer reach maybe 120+ players online at once, but it never grows because people come and go not wanting to put up with a crappy multi. That's the way it was since the 1st totalwar and it will always be that way...
Quote[/b] (ShadesWolf @ Nov. 22 2002,01:02)]In the Christmas edition of PC Gamer UK - on page 16 the following appeared......
Quote[/b] ] ...The Spy is tantalisingly close to a revelation from CA concerning the sequel to MTW, but in the meantime he can tell you that there will also be an addon pack for Medieval, just as the Mongol Invasion provided extra play for Shogun:Total War. The Spy has heard that the MTW add-on will be subtitled VIKING INVASION, which should provide some exciting beach-heads against terrifying long ships and plenty of action for pillage people..........
This has NOT be confirmed by Ca, so it is an unconfirmed rumour for whats its worth.
Another "hollow" add-on that amounts to a couple of battles but nothing new for the campaign game. I am only speaking for myself, but I won't spend a dime on it.
Add-on? Who cares about it? I've bought MTW thinking that Mp-campaign was available. If I had known there was no MPcampaign, I would have never bought it. And even AI and management totally disappointmented me.. there are so many better games to buy... maybe when I have 1000 euros to throw away I'll buy it...
Personally I'm not sure that a Viking Invasion is the ideal add-on. The Danes are already in the game.
Anyway I'm really happy to hear that one is in the making. Past couple of weeks I've really explored the Campaign mode and I must say that this is immensely rewarding. In SP campaign I just luuuuuvvvv this game. It's awesome I'm looking forward to the Add-On, whatever it may be I hope that it will be worthy of the Total War series. Trusting that CA made these two milestone games, I reckon it will be
I also luv the MP aspect, it 's really cool to be able to play online, pity it does have it's issues though. About MP there remain a lot of stability issues, post patch 1.1.
With regards to a second patch I wonder if that would fix anything that the first patch could not. If it can be fixed, time and financial constraints allowing, then it would have been fixed the first time around No ?? Don't get me wrong I do agree that MP still needs a lot of "fixing", everyone would appreciate ironing out the stability probs in MP what I am saying is that it would have been fixed first time around if the developers had the option of devoting the resources necessary.
What I would suggest is that for future games under development by CA MP be addressed right from the start. As there is a huge market out there for online gaming, if I were in the business I would be developing the MP aspect right from the start for sure. Surely this would boost the sales of the game, and you would not have so many negative complaints about the game for potential buyers to read on forums such as this one.
LOL
Check out the bottom of this page.
Future Development (http://www.creative-assembly.co.uk/products.shtml)
I like that there is a blank box right at the bottom with a big question mark BUT notice the Total War logo on it.
Very suggestive
Looking forward to the Add-On
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
solypsist
12-02-2002, 09:08
While there won't be an official patch, you can probably bet that the add-on will have some improvements in game-play (ie. if you want some things fixed, you'll have to get the add-on.) Yes, you'll have to pay to get improved gameplay. Now before some of you rage back from your desk, remember back when a lot of people vociferously balked at having to buy STW again (at full price) when STW:WE came out, and we all went out and purchased it anyway. And after we played it, no one continued to complain about the price.
The fact is, no matter how many people complain about this or that issue (while some of the points are valid, others are just matters of taste) there's enough of a market out there to warrant an expansion, released in the same style as the STW:WE was. I remember clearly how many users swore off EA or the next Total War after STW, and yet here they are, playing MTW and either loving it or posting threads announcing they are "shelving the game until it gets fixed," only to appear two weeks later posting gaming tips or asking strategy questions (strategery? Bushism?)
Anyway, let's get some more info on this before everyone (again, seemingly behaving as if this thread never existed) jumps to all new conclusions and damnations and we start the whole sad, Sysiphian, cycle over until the add-on release.
Lord Romulous
12-02-2002, 10:12
hey Gil...
pleased to hear your having fun and on holidays.
when you on holidays and relaxid it is amazing how much easier it is to deal with all the different personalities and viewpoints on this board. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/argue.gif
even stuff that would get you mad you can smile and chuckle about now.
kinda speaking about my own reaction to being on holidays but it probably applys to everyone. everything is so much more enjoyable when you dont have to get out of bed at 7am every morning for work.
MagyarKhans Cham
12-04-2002, 01:40
well i didnt see linksan/eurosan so at least he kept his word. i know my Khan also buys the game for copying the art work and using the mongol music. i dont think we are bound to some copyright on using those.
deejayvee
12-04-2002, 01:54
Quote[/b] (Jon von @ Dec. 01 2002,14:29)]I've bought MTW thinking that Mp-campaign was available. If I had known there was no MPcampaign, I would have never bought it.
I don't think you can blame CA for that. If you'd read the box you would have found MP Campaign is not mentioned anywhere.
And I'm pretty sure most of the rest of the community knew it wasn't going to be in there.
Magyar Khan
12-04-2002, 03:21
Amps words reflect the best whats going on for the multy-boyz. and like amp i am looking for other games as well but till now MTW lacks competition badly. I am confident my pff spring will have at least better online games related to the medieval scene.
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