New Zeeland's Flag Referendum

[Crandar]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/01/new-zealands-new-flag-final-four-designs-announced

New Zeelanders decided that their flag is subject to change, so a referendum is planned to take place in early 2016, where the people will decide the future of their flag history.

40 flags (https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/5049dd5a5f944ee252aca3a83bc42e4391585dfc/0_0_620_372/master/620.jpg?w=620&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&) were chosen from the initial suggestions, but a couple of days ago, the four final flags were announced to the public. The first referendum will determine which of the four flags is going to compete with the already existing one in the last and most important referendum.

The four flags:
http://cdn1.pri.org/sites/default/files/story/images/nz-top-four.jpg


Personally, I'm a bit disappointed, considering that apparently the most creative designs didn't make it to the semi-finals, probably due to the conservative tastes of the critics committee.

My favourite:
16236

[Viking]

Maybe they should simply replace the flag of the UK with the flag of Papua New Guinea. At least that's a country that is located closer.

Alternatively, a banner representing the Roman Empire, which the ancestors of most New Zealanders once lived under.

[Hooahguy]

I really liked the fourth one, nice blend of the current flag and the All Blacks logo.

[rvg]

The one with the swirl. It looks like a cinnabon. I love those.

[Greyblades]

I'm kinda depressed that they're ditching the union flag, but mostly I'm annoyed that none of it's replacments look halfway decent.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Why don't they have a "would you like to change the flag?" question first, then spend millions on this.

My bet is they either keep the current flag or opt for the second one, which uses the same colours but replaces the Union Flag with the Fern. Choice no. three is supposed to be an unfurling fern but it could just as easily be a stylised breaking wave or a piece of Celtic Art and the last Flag looks like the logo for a Rugby team.

[Greyblades]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/10/new-zealands-new-flag-panel-publishes-40-potential-designs
These are the 40 flags they had to choose between and I am kinda pissed they didnt choose the one at the bottom right.

[Viking]

Why don't they have a "would you like to change the flag?" question first, then spend millions on this.

If the answer to that referendum is 'yes', then this alternative quickly becomes less favourable. That's because such a first referendum would be highly abstract.

The winner flag of a subsequent referendum might not have the support of a majority of the population just because it won, so then you'd need a third referendum to confirm that - one that is essentially a non-abstract clone of the first one, as the old flag might suddenly win again if the winner flag does not gain a majority.

[Gilrandir]

I'm kinda depressed that they're ditching the union flag, but mostly I'm annoyed that none of it's replacments look halfway decent.

However depressed or annoyed others may be, the kiwis are to choose their flag themselves. Way to go!

[Rhyfelwyr]

If those are the alternatives I would stick with the current flag. They need to find a way to combine their two sets of national colours (black/white and red/white/blue) in a way that works aesthetically.

Black and white by itself is pretty dull and has bad connotations (IS etc). Black and blue is a depressing combination. Red, white and blue without the classic NZ black and white doesn't seem worth the change.

[Gilrandir]

If those are the alternatives I would stick with the current flag. They need to find a way to combine their two sets of national colours (black/white and red/white/blue) in a way that works aesthetically.

The latter are British national colors. So basically it is a choice between the old imperial and the one that has developed locally heraldic traditions.

[Rhyfelwyr]

The latter are British national colors. So basically it is a choice between the old imperial and the one that has developed locally heraldic traditions.

Red, white and blue are national colours of New Zealand as well, they have represented it for centuries. Britain is a real part of New Zealand's heritage.

[Gilrandir]

Red, white and blue are national colours of New Zealand as well, they have represented it for centuries. Britain is a real part of New Zealand's heritage.

But it doesn't mean New Zealand isn't free to choose a new flag instead of the inherited. And since The Lord of the Rings was shot there anyway, I suggest they adopt the one that will reconcile all:
16271
Well, at least the colors will.

[Beskar]

Talking with my friend from New Zeeland, the story from over there seems to be that this is a move by the current Prime Minister to add something to his legacy, rather than a move by the New Zeelanders themselves.

Whilst there is a general feeling within the population about having a new flag, the motivations behind the referendum is simply the Prime Ministers personal glory and the process is viewed as a sham, especially as it was all decided by appointed bureaucrats with no experience design decisions or reflecting the views of the population, this re-enforcing the general feeling that the New Zeelanders themselves were locked out of the process.

Their opinion on the current flag choices were "They were created using clip-art".

[Crandar]

Looks like the islands of Fiji plan to do something similar:
http://portlandflag.org/2015/06/09/23-finalists-for-new-fiji-flag/

Not a huge fan of any of their suggested flags, only the tortoise one (https://portlandflag.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/38.jpg) seems acceptable.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well the current flag is a Royal Navy Ensign with four stars stitched on to represent the Southern Cross, the stars sailors steer by in the Southern Hemisphere. It's a very colonial symbol and I can see why they'd want to change it.

The problem with having the public submit designs is that you then have individual designs to pick from, rather than the traditional committee-designed flag that combines several elements.

Looking at the long list you can see that the current colours are popular, as are the ferns, swirls and Southern Cross.

So how about this - the current blue field with the stars of the Southern Cross stylised symmetrically in the centre with four ferns, two above and two below curving inwards forming a diamond, in each corner a curled fern turned clockwise (it's important the flag cannot be mounted upside down by mistake).

That combines all of the most common features and, unlike the flags above, it can be easily reproduced at home or in school, using a single sheet as a base and painting/embroidering it.

[Gilrandir]

this is a move by the current Prime Minister to add something to his legacy, rather than a move by the New Zeelanders themselves.

Whilst there is a general feeling within the population about having a new flag

These two sentences contradict each other.



the motivations behind the referendum is simply the Prime Ministers personal glory and the process is viewed as a sham, especially as it was all decided by appointed bureaucrats with no experience design decisions or reflecting the views of the population, this re-enforcing the general feeling that the New Zeelanders themselves were locked out of the process.


You make Zealanders look like a sheepish crowd who are afraid to voice their dissatisfaction or (which is more likely) don't care much.

I think the first is not case (even if ONE person you talked presented the picture like that). This friend of yours admitted that most locals WISH to have a new flag. This common wish was one of the motivations behind the authorities' move. Whatever personal aspirations their current Prime Minister might have, they evidently coincide with the popular sentiment.

The approach to the choice might be criticized, of course, yet I believe that if the citizens cared more, they would come up with a petition or something to influence the choice.




So how about this - the current blue field with the stars of the Southern Cross stylised symmetrically in the centre with four ferns, two above and two below curving inwards forming a diamond, in each corner a curled fern turned clockwise (it's important the flag cannot be mounted upside down by mistake).

That combines all of the most common features and, unlike the flags above, it can be easily reproduced at home or in school, using a single sheet as a base and painting/embroidering it.

Good one. Now move to New Zealand, get the citizenship, run for the Prime Minister, win the elections and introduce this one. ~;)

[Beskar]

These two sentences contradict each other.

No they don't.


You make Zealanders look like a sheepish crowd who are afraid to voice their dissatisfaction or (which is more likely) don't care much.

Their dissatisfaction is well noted in the media. They are limited practically with what they can do.


Whatever personal aspirations their current Prime Minister might have, they evidently coincide with the popular sentiment.

A rushed process which doesn't really take much account of the views of the local population, decided by bureaucrats with no design experience or mandate, and ended up in the least diverse selection of flags possible in the referendum was not what they were wanting.

If you wanted Icecream, then I got some, put it in a cone, then I splatted it upon the top of your head, have I given you what you wanted?

[Shaka_Khan]

https://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o506/eesang2012/tw/nzflag2_zpswdp9wouz.jpg

[Gilrandir]

A rushed process which doesn't really take much account of the views of the local population, decided by bureaucrats with no design experience or mandate, and ended up in the least diverse selection of flags possible in the referendum was not what they were wanting.


The initial selection of flags was 40 (if what was said in the thread was true), this doesn't qualify as "the least diverse possible".

And again, the population didn't seem inclined to put their foot down on it. Thus, if they didn't get the best they will have to make the best of what they have.

[Viking]

Fifth design gaining steam:

https://i.imgur.com/Ofssrcs.jpg?1


Nearly 30,000 people have signed a petition demanding the New Zealand government allow a fifth entry in the contest for a new national flag.
Red Peak, designed by Wellington resident Aaron Dustin, was on the long list but did not make the final four.

But PM John Key has already said no to adding Red Peak into the contest.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34171294

Drama. :pop2:

[lars573]

Ahh memories.

https://youtu.be/SyYPG3klcsI

[Rhyfelwyr]

I am surprised that the black & blue flag is most popular. It's a pretty dull and depressing combination of colours.

[Rob The Bastard]

The choice is fairly limited.
I prefer the current flag.

The Silver Fern has been widely used by our sporting and military groups (for over a century)

If I had my choice I would go for a (HELL, YEAH!) SILVER (not White) fern on the Black background.
Any one comparing it to the IS flag is not looking close enough or cannot differentiate between writing and foliage.

:)

[Papewaio]

Blast from the past. Kia Ora Rob!

[Rob The Bastard]

Hey Pape!

Yeah... quite a while.
(years)

I've been lurking recently but couldn't remember the password.

How are things with you?

[Papewaio]

Older, not wiser. Two kids aging me three times as fast.

Trying to enjoy the economic roller coaster in Australia as a contractor.

[Viking]

NZ Labour is apparently tabling a bill for the inclusion of the red peak design in the vote, as well as that the vote should also include a yes/no to change of flag as a second, independent choice.


It will this week table a bill in Parliament which will include the Red Peak design as the fifth option and will seek a yes or no vote in the first referendum.

Andrew Little said if the answer was no, then the money set aside for the 2nd referendum won't be spent.

If it's yes, then the winner of the five designs will go up against the current flag early next year.

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/labour-tabling-bill-to-include-red-peak-flag/

Meanwhile, a French national symbol (http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/video-david-seymours-french-cock-up-2015091517#axzz3lmwLS4Lz) proves tricky.

[Brandy Blue]

Canada went through the let's-get-a-new-flag thing in the 60's and no doubt there were people who said "We veterans want the old flag we served under." or "What about our historic connection with the UK?" but ya know, it seems to have worked out OK. The vets adjusted, Canadians are still perfectly aware of their historical connection with the UK, and I suspect that most of you don't even know what the other flags Canada has used looked like. I admit I didn't until I googled.

[Greyblades]

I will admit my previous objections might have been driven that sort of objection, but at this stage it's boiled down to: if you're going to replace the jack at least use something that doesn't look as shit as that.

[Brandy Blue]

I will admit my previous objections might have been driven that sort of objection, but at this stage it's boiled down to: if you're going to replace the jack at least use something that doesn't look as shit as that.

Well, that's true. Canadians get to say, "Wow! We picked a great flag." Looks like New Zealanders will all be saying, "Don't blame me. I voted for the old flag."

[HopAlongBunny]

In Canada there are still pockets of regret over the choice of the maple leaf over the red-ensign.
It seems rather amazing that we would think the British somehow deserved representation on our national symbol, while ignoring the far more important contribution of the Aboriginal communities.

[Greyblades]

...what? The hell did the aboriginals do that was as important as our aid during ww2 that kept the Japanese from annexing you?

[Gilrandir]

...what? The hell did the aboriginals do that was as important as our aid during ww2 that kept the Japanese from annexing you?

Japan annexing Canada sounds like Korea annexing China - too big to stomach it.

[Greyblades]

Wait, I thought we were talking about new Zealand.

I can bring up the war of 1812 if you want. The American Indians haven't topped us burning down Washington dc on canada's behalf.

[Husar]

...what? The hell did the aboriginals do that was as important as our aid during ww2 that kept the Japanese from annexing you?

They all died so the British could take their land?