View Full Version : A Cooperative SP Campaign
Hmm while waiting for the expansion pack, just got another idea of a war story. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
How about this time we can write it together?
That is, we play the campaign together, and report what has happened (in text and F2 screen shots).
I should be able to help publishing.
The procedures are:
1. We open the sign-up for members (the noble lords of Clan X).
Everybody can register, as long as you can find the save game files,
the batttle logs, and know how to take screenshots.
If you cannot, I guarantee you can learn it in 2 minutes. So don't worry about it.
2. Then we vote for which clan we will play, what are the settings, what
game "features" are allowed, etc.
and now we have 2 choices:
3a. Everybody plays for N seasons (depending on the number of members).
Every spring is the clan meeting like now.
The order of playing can be decided randomly at the beginning.
3b. Still everybody plays N seasons as in 3a, but:
Each of the member adapts a general (randomly, or by the order of sign up).
If a battle involves this general IN COMMAND,
then this member will be responsible for playing the battle. (The save game file will be sent to him, while after the battle finishes he will send it back to whoever playing it for the time)
In the clan meetings, the member will speak as the general he represents.
If his general dies for any reason, he can adapt another free general.
The clan meeting is still held annually like now.
This will be more fun (some role playing),
but eventually the story will fall into the hands of only a few members
who controls the better generals.
Also, we cannot handle multiple battles in the same season.
I guess we have to say:
"let the first battle commander play for all battles in a season".
or,
"let the member who signed up first to play", etc.
4. Everyone who actually played will be responsible for writing up the story in this period,
with the help of other clan members in any aspect he requires.
If any member fails to respond his duty without prior notice, his
role will be assumed by another member temporarily.
---
So what does everybody think? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Maltz (edited 07-18-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Maltz (edited 07-18-2001).]
Sounds cool Maltz http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif wouldn't mind helping u out. feel free to mail me at j.a.n.oosterheert@home.nl http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Thanks Satake!
The rules are very flexible now. So if anybody has better suggestions please don't hesitate to say it.
To speed up the process and reduce complexity, maybe we just let the clan "executor (voted or randomly assigned http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif)" to play the strategy map from the beginning to the end. All the battles will be fought by individual generals via save game file transfers between this executor and corresponding daimyo / taisho.
This means the game will be played by only ONE person on the strategy map and MULTIPLE members on the battlefield. How the unit is moved is decided by the generals (members) during the spring meeting. So actually the "executor" is simply carrying out the plan decided by the clan as a whole. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Yoko Kono
07-18-2001, 07:15
great idea maltz
Seeing as you write stories so well...
I think a good idea would be to have you play the strategy map from start to finish
Each season we could have a vote on what actions to take. If we entered battle the corresponding player to general would then be sent the save game files for the battle
After battle ends the player would then send an updated save game file to you along with screenshots and a brief text file roughly outlining how the battle went along with a log file. You could then do a story in the `Maltz` style http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
id be happy to be a feature in this campaign
contact me on HHH2Yoko_Kono@Hotmail.com
excellent idea Maltz, let me think for a while ie. if there is anything I can add or suggest http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Thank you very much for the compliment. However, I think this time I cannot help too much because I will be absent for 3/4 of August. (a vacation)
So I will be very willing to help set up the framework with everybody, and perhaps adapt some general that won't appear so early http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif So by the time I come back I can still join the game.
I am sure there are many people out here who play, write, and do graphics better than me. I will be happy to design a template so later on people can just use it easily. Most important of all is the participation of everyone, and of course to have fun. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
How about we leave this topic to ferment till next Monday, then we can pool everyone's input to make up the draft rule. Then we can make a timeline and start to sign-up. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Shimazu2
07-18-2001, 10:27
Yoko will probably help you http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Good idea..
------------------
--RADAN(RONIN ashigaru)--
A member of CLAN..what no CLAN??
CeltiberoSkullXIII
07-18-2001, 15:30
Nice idea like always MALTZ!
http://www.mpz.co.uk/cwm/otn/evil/skullblink.gif
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"It's better to let the enemy alive as to kill it ... To TORTURE it!" http://gifanimados.ya.com/terror/calaveras_banderas/flag_wht_blkbns_clr.gif
If we play Takeda i reserve the right to get Shingen http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
A special reservation might cause you some extra workload, such as being the executor http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
How about we start the sign up next Wednesday?
Great idea! I like it very much. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
If you need anything from me or from .Org just shoot...
Tera
------------------
Honour to Clan No Fear.
Visit my resource centre here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org)
Evil is within us... http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif
Thanks Tera, that will be wonderful.
Since I will be away for a week, I guess I better start to write a draft rule
for this multi-player SP campaign now. If you have any suggestion of
modification please don't hesitate to bring it up. This draft rule is very
flexible now but once the final version is solidified, I hope we won't need
to change it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
I know this draft is going to be super-long. I hope everything is straight
forward enough that everyone would assume the same thing by intuition. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
(to be continued)
< Preparation Period >
1. Everyone can participate in this multi-player "SP campaign" as long as
he or she signs up during the sign-up period (presumably lasting 3 days,
starting July 25th).
2. Members will vote for the following in the subsequent meetings:
a. Which clan to play (8 choices)
b. Clan general assignment (who plays who)
The order of choosing is the sign-up order.
However, the executor, publisher, and clan daimyo can choose first.
(The clan daimyo has to choose the clan daimyo at 1530 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif)
c. Which game settings and features to be used.
All following meetings will be hosted by the clan daimyo himself.
The daimyo has the freedom to decide how a decision is made.
d. Timeline (for example, 1 game year = N days in reality)
This will ensure the flow of campaign.
Again, the clan daimyo has the decision power and should try his
best to speed up the campaign flow http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif (Oh no! Another boss pressure!)
Each item above (a - d) will take a separate thread to discuss (vote) during
a period of 24 hours, making a total of 4 days.
So after the sign up starts, the campaign game should be ready to
launch in 1 week! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
---
Campaign Flow
Our MP-SP campaign consists of the following components.
A. Generals
1. Every member has the right to become a general in the clan. The sign-up
order determines the picking sequence. A list of available generals
will be made (listing the daimyo/heir/and will-mature generals). The clan daimyo is responsible for coming up this list!
2. If his general dies, the member can choose another free general or
go to the BOTTOM of the line-up if nothing is available. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
3. Free (un-assigned) members are those who do not play a general
either because he does not choose to, he was too late in sign-up, or his general died http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
They can still participate in the clan meetings and adapt a free
general (through postings in the .org forum) once it becomes available http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
The order of line-up is still decided by the sign-up order.
4. A general is responsible for personally playing the battle COMMANDED by
the general he plays. He should obtain the save game file from the
campaign executor (see C). He is encouraged to make some informative
screenshots during the battle. (the more the better)
5. The general is responsible for writing up the story of each battle he
plays. The story and screenshots should be passed to the campaign publisher
(see D).
6. The member should speak on behalf of his general during the clan meetings.
He is also encouraged to write the story in the first-person point of view,
but not required.
7. Reservation is possible, but it should be agreed by other clan members.
The executor (see C), clan daimyo (see B), and the publisher (see D) is
recommended to choose first, second, and third as a reward of their
volunteering work. A member can specify what he is willing to do when
he signs up - first come first serve.
(to be continued)
[This message has been edited by Maltz (edited 07-18-2001).]
B. Clan Meeting & Clan Daimyo
1. Clan meetings should be held publically in the .org General Discussion
forum. Every member is encouraged to speak out their opinion, while
the public are also welcomed to join the discussion. The default interval
of a clan meeting is 1 year, every WINTER after year 1530. (it is not
that realistic but gives the meeting more control of the budget allocation).
2. To make it real, the meeting is chaired by the member who plays the
clan daimyo. The clan daimyo can do whatever he likes in the meeting
but is recommended to follow democracy http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
The daimyo is responsible for gathering the meeting (start a new thread)
and announce the meeting period (when it is going to end). Of course,
he also needs to inform the members of the meeting objective, such as
"What are we going to do next year?", and announce the results afterwards.
3. Although the meeting is more open-styled, the decision of the meeting,
whehter through a vote or not, should be taken as the unchangable decision
of the clan for the following year (or whatever the meeting covers).
Any objection should be voiced DURING the meeting. After the result is
annouced by the daimyo, it will be too late to change anything.
4. Emergency meetings can be gathered by the clan daimyo, whenever he sees
necessary.
5. The daimyo is responsible of resolving all conflicts inside the clan.
He can also decide everything that is not specified here.
6. If the clan daimyo is doing a poor job, ANY member can suggest a
replacement (by starting a thread stating who is nominated to replace).
To make it come true, the support of more than 60% of the members is
needed. Same thing applies to any general, executor, and publisher (see A,
C, D). Hopefully it won't happen!
C. Executor
1. The campaign is going to be coordinated by a volunteer who carry out the
clan decisions on the strategy map. This person does not have to be the
member who plays the clan daimyo (to share the workload, I guess it
better not be the same person).
2. The executor should absolutely obey the decision of the clan meeting. If
he didn't do so, other members can request a re-play (load game). He must
carry out the moves specified in the meeting decision even if he has a
different and better opinion.
3. However, the executor is free to make the decision that is not covered
by the clan meeting - such as spending some extra budget to a useful castle
upgrade.
4. The executioner should make a simple but clear report of what moves /
buildings are initiated during the clan meeting.
5. The executor needs to save the game every season. Whenever a battle occurs,
the executor should send the save-game file of the previous season to
the member who plays the general that command this battle. If there are
multiple battles, the commanding power should be given to the member
who SIGNED UP FIRST.
6. The executor is responsible to keep a most recent copy of the save game
file and all battle logs. He should also take screenshots of the
strategy maps for the Publisher (see D). The executor should be able to
send these files to clan members whoever request them.
7. The executor tells the story on the strategy map. This means
he does NOT have to go into any battle covered by another member.
D. Publisher
1. To reduce the workload of the Executor, we should have a publisher
who is responsible for publishing the stories of other members!
2. The publisher should collect the stories from the executor and generals,
and publish it as soon as possible.
3. The publisher should have some basic knowledge in webpage. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
---
Others.
A. Battles that are commanded by non-adopted generals.
If we have members who do not have a general,
then he can be given the command power of this particular battle.
The order is also decided by the sign-up sequence.
The next chance of such case should belong to the next person in the backup list.
If there are no free members, then the Executor is responsible for
playing this battle! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
B. Resignation
Any member who feels that he cannot fulfill the duties can announce
a resignation - as long as he finds a replacement for him. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Ok I hope that covers 95% of the aspects! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Maltz (edited 07-18-2001).]
Something to add:
How about when sign up, the person also specifies what clan he or she thinks we should play.
So we can save one day of voting for the clans.
example:
Maltz: please count me in. I vote for playing the ronins. (Doh! there is no daimyo!) http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif
and here I was thinking that I have NO LIFE
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
------------------
I'm a man... I can change... If I have to...
...I guess...
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif Another change.. sorry about this.
To further speed up the process, how about we now modify the "preparation procedures" once more http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
1. Voting for the clan choice - open to everybody and
Starts today! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif The vote will last to next Wednesday!!
Simply vote by replying the next thread on the board please. The vote will last to GMT 0:00 AM July 25th. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
2. Sign-up period - sign up for the general you want.
A list of all generals available for sign up will be posted by myself. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
The sign up time will be annouced at least 48 hours in advance by myself, too.
(should be around GMT 0:00 AM, July 25)
All sign-up people please just simply reply my post while quoting the entire list,
with YOUR NAME added behind the corresponding entry. This including the executor, the
daimyo, the publisher, the heirs, and all other famous / new / other generals.
First come, first serve. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
for example:
(Clan Mongel)
executor: Albert
publisher: Ben
daimyo : Chris
heir X : Dan
heir Y : Eric
heir Z : Ben
Maltz
The annual winter clan meetings could be a problem ie. generals wanting more resources for their proposed attack against the enemy. This could get out of control (and take up heaps of time) and choices become who is backing who each meeting. Because of our different approaches to winning it may not be easy for some to agree to attack or play in a way that they don't like.
Hope I am not being pessimistic here but everyone wants fresh upgraded troops to fight with and to then gain honour for their general. Some sort of troop production roster ?
Conquistador
07-20-2001, 17:45
Hi, Maltz.
I just fixed my connection problem today, and managed to go online at this time. Woow, there's another idea here to the story and a lot of new things besides, so what has happened these days, can you briefly describe for me?
I have read the your post on the top, and it's kinda cool except there're a few problems.
1. The save game file will be inputted by only one source per season. That means one person can only be in charge for one season. And so that means we are not role-playing as a general if we are to make multiple attacks in the period with multiple generals. And who should be in charge of that fight? If it's for the higher rank general, then the lower rank general will never get a chance. If it's for the lower rank general, then whoever loses consecutively will continue to be the one in charge.
2. Is the one in charge going to be responsible for aspects besides military? I think not, and I think the taisho of the state has the right. However, with limited resources, how should we design the money allocation?
If it's an affair among states, then we'll like never get to build anything.
If it's an affair with rank, then we should have a system like this.
---
General point: = general rank as a number +2
Koku one general can invest: = (particular general point/ total general points) x income.
(All numbers will not be saved for the next meeting of winter.)
---
For example,
when we have 1 daimyo and 3 generals, with rank 3, 0, 1 and 2 in the year with total income of 1500 koku,
The rank 2 general can decide x amount of koku in his way to invest.
x = [2+2/(4+0+1+2)+4x2] x 1500
x = 400
With rank 2, his decision is worth of importance of 400 koku and he can make 26.6% influence.
Now what if we have enough money for more than 1 option in a state? The priority goes to the side with the highest general rank, and if equal, goes to the side with the general with highest number calculated by battle won - battle losed, and if equal, goes to the final decision of the daiymo.
Quote Originally posted by Shuko:
The annual winter clan meetings could be a problem.
[/QUOTE]
Hi Shuko:
That's the heart of multi-player campaign! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I guess all group decisions are based on negociation. There will be some generals who eagerly demonstrate their own ability (some got famous and some got killed), while others put more emphasis on the benefit of the group.
Therefore, it will be important to have a daimyo (meeting chair) who is able to make sound and fair decisions for the clan, whether through a vote or not. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
The resource (new recruit) allocation should not be a big problem if we let the general become single unit-army on the strategy map. This means he carry no other units by default, and only gets an army when ordered to attack or asked for defense. In case of an attack and defense, a bid-and-vote system will be used. For example:
General A: I need archers 3 unit, yari 4 unit, totally about 400 men
Genearl B: That's lame. I only need archers 2, yari samurai 3, yari ashigaru 1, totally 300 men.
Then the clan daimyo decides (through a vote or not).
A possible problem is nobody wants to be under the control of a higher-ranked general (because his general will get killed easily http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif). This will become a big problem if the army size is small and our member number is large. Right now we don't know how many people will sign up - so probably don't worry about it for now.
If this unfortunately happens, we can give the power of the daimyo to force corresponding generals to participate. In case these generals got killed due to a forced assignment, they will not go to the end of the line up, and they should reserve their right to adapt the next general available.
I can see there will be more minor problems coming, but just don't want to get the rules too complicated. I guess a discussion of members should be able to handle the most appropriate answer for 99% of the time.
VoodooChild
07-21-2001, 02:56
To go along with my Shadow War thread, I would like to include myself not as a General, but as the Spy Master for the Clan.
I would partisipate in the Winter meetings, direct the emessaries, shinobi, and ninjas, submit reports (stories) of current events in far away lands. With some work, I might be able to re-create some of the rebelions and suppy screen shots etc.
If interested give me a shout at
jvoodoochild@yahoo.com
Hi Conquistador:
Thanks for the idea! They are very well thought.
Yet I am in a vacation now! Too lazy to go over the whole thing for you http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif But I guess the thread pretty much explains everything happened so far.
Quote Originally posted by Conquistador:
... then the lower rank general will never get a chance. If it's for the lower rank general, then whoever loses consecutively will continue to be the one in charge.
[/QUOTE]
I hope this won't happen http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif That's why we need to have clan meetings. If one general is really incompetent, his further requests of attack will not get approved easily. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I think the taisho of the state has the right. However, with limited resources, how should we design the money allocation?
Unfortunately STW pools all koku to the center. As a result, the provincial governmental system won't work... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif We have to let the clan meeting to decide the resources allocation, and it is very unlikely to have a state Taisho.
I finally strived through your calculation system! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif I have to say it was a brilliant piece of work, and everybody can see the amount of effort you spent in the idea. However, since we have a clan meeting, how about we just let the meeting and daimyo to decide everything. It will be a little simplier to understand and to play! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Thanks for your input again. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by Maltz (edited 07-21-2001).]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by VoodooChild:
I would like to include myself not as a General, but as the Spy Master for the Clan.
This sounds great http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif On the sign up day we will add the title of Emissary master, Ninja/Shinobi master, and probably the Jesuit priest master. Since the idea is brought up by you, I am sure you are 99.99% guaranteed to get these positions http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif (But please still sign up. It will be hard to maintain the system running if everybody makes his special little request!)
Just my thought here... not even a suggestion.
I have no idea how's everyone's enthusiasm towards this campaign idea. For sure there will be quite a lot of work imposed on 3 or 4 members on a weekly basis.
Just wondering who is really willing to contribute a little more than others. (please feel free to email me or make a reply here) Maybe we need to decide the clan daimyo, executor, and publisher a little earlier than just 1 day ahead. Since the "central committee" might need to get some consensus a while earlier.
Personally I am very willing to help out. I will be able to take over publication but not between 8/10 to 8/30. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
The campaign, if running smoothly, will probably last 15 - 45 years to win (depends on the clan choice and the member head count). If each year is equivalent to 1 week (which is quite fast already - every day is one season plus 3 days of meeting), then we are still talking about 3 months to 7 months!
Of course, if we have more people willing to help, then we can take turns and everyone just do it for one month or so. Or we can make this a must... to keep your good general active http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
I am pretty sure later on we will face quite a few of resignation because of the expansion pack or simply the novelty is lost. Maybe we can speed up the campaign a bit. Any suggestion? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
One central theme I really wish to keep is to keep everything simple and fast. I am sure you know why... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Oh. And thanks for all the private and public opinions I received so far. Please keep them coming (finally it is my turn to say this http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif) and I greatly appreciate your ideas and opnions.
Conquistador
07-22-2001, 00:17
Well, the system I laid out does not really work out since I ignore the condition when a general rank is below 0. (Though this problem is easy to solve).
And I didn't take much time in writing up that piece, coz I'm kind of a math greek and analyst. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I have thought that we may like to set-up a government with different people controling different aspects, economy, military, making the final decision. But I doubted if somebody liked to work for the internal build-up when they can command a war instead.
HMm.. I have doubt, hmmm.....I doubted who would be the economist, and yet I doubt the person can't be other than me....yeah, that's true. (Or was I trying to get myself to this position...and this i doubt)
Well, why would I like to set-up such system is that I really think there's no way that the truth will be guaranteed to be the outcome, so voting is essential when we don't all agree on one thing.
I also disagree with the system that all votes must be of equal weight, coz the reason is that in the truth, somebody is right and somebody not, somebody knows it better than others. There by proving their skills in the battlefield and achieving rank, gaining honor, somebody has more influence. And yet I've been "promoted" from Ronin to ashigaru"....little hope to achieve as a legendary swordman.
Quote Originally posted by Conquistador:
I also disagree with the system that all votes must be of equal weight, coz the reason is that in the truth, somebody is right and somebody not, somebody knows it better than others. There by proving their skills in the battlefield and achieving rank, gaining honor, somebody has more influence. And yet I've been "promoted" from Ronin to ashigaru"....little hope to achieve as a legendary swordman. [/QUOTE]
Hi Conquistador: I guess we have to assign an equal value to each vote in this particular case, because there is no fair way to quantify the weight of members' decisions. It will also be more fun if everyone can participate in the discussion freely. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Keeping every simple is probably the only way that we can ever hope to finish this campaign in the long run. We might have to drop rules that are not intuitive (to be understood and agreed in 10 seconds) in nature.
If we can keep the campaign simple and fast enough, then the daimyo, executor, and publisher, etc. should have reasonable workloads - so we won't need to rotate these serving positions. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Yeah I guess we should move our discussion to the CLAN forum soon.
I've started a new thread there and please feel free to address your concerns there. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Maltz
other site of interest is MagyarKhans Cham "become a ronin in our campaign...." , this is posted in the Mongul Invasion Expansion Pack forum. Misled you before, it is not in the Clan forum.
HATAMOTOKILL
07-30-2001, 06:04
sounds good to me! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif
------------------
Hato!!!
genie of the lands!!!
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/contrib/legionxs/ninja1.gif
Quote Originally posted by HATAMOTOKILL:
sounds good to me! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif
[/QUOTE]
Hello Hatamoto: Would you like to join us? You can visit our website at http://www.totalwar.org/maltz/SP_Campaign/.
We just had our first clan meeting and our first battle is to be fought in one day. There are still some unadopted famous generals! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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