campaign too short?

[shingenmitch2]

It seems to me that the campaign is too short in terms of turns (not neccessarily years).

The game gives us 400 turns to take over the world.

After the first couple of turns virtually all territories have some form of castle. Thus to take over a province AT BEST requires at least 2 turns (1 - initial attack, 2-assualt castle). There are 100+ provinces. If you make 1 assualt per turn that is the equivalent of 200 turns.

Under the best circumstances, (i.e. you win every fight and never have a revolt requiring you to recapture a province more than once) you need to keep up a pace of taking 1 province every 4 turns.

Now I usually attack provinces in pairs (2-3 at once) to take advantage of how provinces connect -- attempting to reduce the number of fronts that can hit me, but I still find I must rest and replenish (3-8 turns) for many turns after a major series of assualts and overall this puts me on a much slower pace than 1 prov. every 4 turns.

Add to that the time and cost to build castles -- who is every going to build the biggest type of castle? Who has the time or money?

I think the game campaign pace should be slowed by half --- Each turn being a half year give players 800 turns for the campaign.

1st turn is Spring/Summer fighting season.
2nd turn is Summer/Fall fighting season.

This is also more realistic in terms of troop movement.
How realistic is it that an army can only move 1 province in an ENTIRE year? They should be able to get across the better part of Europe in that time at least Although the 2-turns-per-year scenario doesn't solve it, it at least makes it better by having troops scoot 2 provinces per year.

It also makes building things better... the cost is there, but in effect for the scale of the campaign, they are built in half the time.

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PS. along the lines of troop movement... I've often thought troops should be able to move 2-3 friendly provinces per turn. If you are in enemy lands, you go slow and warily, but cruising down the roads of friendly territory you should be able to make much better time. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[The Last Emperor]

Ur idea of halving the pace is good. Travel time between 2 provinces is a bit too long at 1 year each and I really missed the 4 seasons of STW. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[LadyAnn]

I don't feel the same Mitch. Either I am wiped out early or I win within 150 years (60% conquest) or 200 years (100%).

Usually I don't conquer one province at a time. Keeping choke points and fortify it to minimize front exposure is good strategy.

Here is some good tactics:
1. Don't underestimate ranksake and pillage. Build up two or three large armies (2 or 3 thousands strong each, so you don't have to send reinforcement often), let them lose in enemy's territory. If the enemy withdraw totally to regroup, destroy everything of that province and then leave. If the enemy retreats into castle, seige it to reduce the enemy's force in castle, but don't assault it (unless you want to keep it). Just pack and leave if a large enemy force comes near.

That tactic happened in history (English in 100 years war did that, also were Danes, Vikings, Mongols, etc.). The enemy's economy is in shamble, they try to chase your two armies and face revolt of their own.

2. When the ransaking armies joined in a choke point province, seige that province and if you have fresh enforcement coming, storm the castle (of course, only if you have adequate seige weapons). This allows you to fortify the choke point quick (storm castle doesn't destroy it).

3. Attack only faction that is currently at war with someone else, or is having revolts.

I conceed that if you start the play in late Era, it may be much harder to keep the objective of conquering all territory before the game ends.

Annie

[Musashi]

If you hate having to build siege engineers, just have emissaries and spies trail your armies, and use the spies to open the gates of castles under siege, or if the chances of success on that aren't so good, have the emissaries bribe them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

-Musashi

[LadyAnn]

Seige weapons are readily available as Mercenary. Building seige engine is slow, but you should always try to build a handful in reserve and even tow them along your ransaking armies. The anti-personel effect is pretty good and you can retire them for reinforcement, unlike MP play.

Annie

[AndersSchm]

Starting in early period I haven't come close to running out of time by the time everything is conquered. I tend to take it easy at first and develop a strong starting base - then once you start a war more wars will follow and as long as your core territories keep producing core front line units (archers tend to last longer) and you keep updating your troops you should roll over the whole map without too much effort or resistance.

[Foreign Devil]

Quote[/b] (LadyAnn @ Dec. 04 2002,18:21)]Seige weapons are readily available as Mercenary.
I use mercenary seige weapons almost exclusivly. In the early part of the game (I have yet to reach past the 1250's, usually get bored and start as a different faction at this point), catapults and mangonels are availible in abundance.

[deutschlanduberalles]

400 turns is way too short for me, so I just modded it to give me 1,000 turns instead. Problem solved.


Quote[/b] ]I tend to take it easy at first and develop a strong starting base - then once you start a war more wars will follow and as long as your core territories keep producing core front line units (archers tend to last longer) and you keep updating your troops you should roll over the whole map without too much effort or resistance.

This is my bigger problem. My playing style, as in all strategy games, is to build an impregnable base, build a strong economy, strong army, and then, since everybody else has been fighting since day one, just roll over everyone else on the map with almost no effort whatsoever. I wish there was some way to ensure the enemy put up more resistance once you finally unleash your nigh-invincible army on them.

[jas]

Hmmm .. sounds like everyone wants ...

SEASONS

I really miss winter.

[Swoosh So]

I completely agree with you mitch on all the above points, Strange how you can move troops anywhere by ship in 1 turn but by land just 1 province? I also agree 1 year should be at least 2 turns, And the seasonal turns you suggested sound good.

Swooooooooosh

[A.Saturnus]

What`s very strange too, is that you need from Naples to Venice as long as from Tunis to Kairo. I`m for seasons or half-years but this wouldn`t be solved this way.

[svnguyen]

400 turns is plenty to conquer the whole map. It's only slow at first but once you have about 10 territories conquered, you start racking the florins and it's pretty much a no brainer from there.

Here's what I do:
1) Start pumping out fleets turn 1 to get your trade routes set up. I usually get 3 provinces to pump out fleets for the whole game until I've covered the whole map by fleets. This lets you hit any territory in 1 turn and gives you loads of florins from trade.

2) Conquer a few territories and maximize trade income asap in every coastal territory. For the interior territories have them build units.

3) Once your fleets/trade routes are set up, upgrade some buildings to build decent units, doesn't have to be the best of the best.

4) Now that the income is flooding in start pumping units out of every province and combine them to form ubber stacks.

5) Have 6 full armies with as a pair in 3 fronts. Just start killing the near province. Use the second of the pair as garrison to keep down revolts for the first few round until you can build peasants. Move the first stack to conquer the next province. When you have 2 peasants it should be enough to keep the loyalty over 100% while very low tax. Now move you garrison stack to join up with the man force.

6) Evenutally you'll have like 20 stacks and you'll just blitzcreig over all of Europe.

I did this with the Byzantin in Late Period and conquered the whole map on expert in less than 100 rounds.

[FesterShinetop]

The idea of adding the seasons is a really good one, like that very much. You will then also have a real choice of attacking in winter time or waiting another turn for the spring/summer in which you have more chance of fair weather

Sounds to me I am the only one bribing rebel army's; a quick and fast way to expand your empire, but you need a healthy income of course And if you happen to have one of those expensive generals just drop an assasin on him and try again.

[shingenmitch2]

I should note that my campaign experience was with the Beta patch... the final patch made some changes we recommended.

The biggest problem I had was with cash flow after conquering a province... (in the beta) was Armies laying siege were charged 3x their normal upkeep -- and this charge took effect the first turn that the province was successfully attack (even before I had a chance to assault the castle--it was if the game considered you laying seige the instant the province was taken and the enemy fled to their castle). So attacking a province was killing my revenue stream. It is probably much better with the 1.1 patch

[Foreign Devil]

Quote[/b] (deutschlanduberalles @ Dec. 05 2002,03:42)]I wish there was some way to ensure the enemy put up more resistance once you finally unleash your nigh-invincible army on them.
There is. Launch the attack before your army is invincible http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif