Do you use Mercenaries?

[Brother Derfel]

Hi,
Just curiouse to know how many of you use Mercenary troops in your armies during campaigns.

I happen to find them useful to fill ut an army during the early stages of a campaign and fing the diversity of the troops that you can then feild in your armies quite usefull.

Unfortunatly they tend to become useless to me later on as they are no mach for later regular troops.

Any way, do you use them and why, or if you don't why not?

[solypsist]

I totally use Mercs, every chance I can. And then I discard them just as quickly. TRhey're good for castle assaults, when I just auto-resolve and don't care about a kill ratio. Basically anything that could look like heavy losses (beachhead attacks from ports, etc.) I go heavy with the mercenaries.

[Knight_Yellow]

Yeah i usualy build taverns quite early to get sum armoured troops and sumtimes calv but i use them as scouts realy i send a hundred or so into provinces then try to do as mutch dammage as i can ie. there gens head then my main 1000 man armys arrive to kill the survivors.
mercs dont last long in my army but theres nothing worse than loosing a good gen to a castle assualt when u can send in sum mercs he he. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Vlad The Impaler]

i use mercs a lot especially when i play the turks; at the start u dont have many troops construction capabilities and i just hire mercs cause i need to finish quickly one of my neighbours at least; later , when i have my troops i dont hire mercenaries unless is about some sort of elite or rare troop; ( pikemen , vikings )

[Cooperman]

Mercs can make a nice disposable army where casualties dont matter, smash the enemy then just disband whatever remains http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Foreign Devil]

I too, use mercs early on in the game. Even in the firs few years of the early period, you can often get some good heavy cavalry. I also use merc seige weapons, as thats one less set of buildings I have to build- and it's often unnessecary to sirectly assault a castle anyway.

I have, however, noticed that the upkeep cost for mercs is higher than the upkeep of the same troop type if you've built them yourself.

Edit: It just occured to me that this could be due to valour/armor differences, although i'm not entirely sure. Anyone know?

[Coucy]

Mercs have saved my bacon on numerous occasions, when a sudden unexpected invasion occurs, and I need lots of troops, FAST. Its a nice feeling when you start building that one measly regular troop in a threatened province, but notice that mercs are available at the Inn. Click on the Hire button, and see a dozen full-strength companies ready for hire, and all of a sudden you are no longer planning a defense campaign, but an offensive one against that backstabbing weasel of an AI...woo hoo : )

[Daevyll]

I tend to play a little subgame called 'collect all the units'

I take one of every type of unit I can build/bribe/hire and put them in a 'museum' province

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[MonkeyMan]

Quote[/b] (Daevyll @ Dec. 07 2002,21:06)]I tend to play a little subgame called 'collect all the units'

I take one of every type of unit I can build/bribe/hire and put them in a 'museum' province

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
man are you weird. Oh well each to their own i suppose http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Spetulhu]

I rarely use mercs. They`re expensive and I can`t refill the units, so high-risk castle assaults are the only mission I`ll hire them for http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[FesterShinetop]

I use them occasionally. When I take over a province (by force or bribe) and I need to put a large army there to keep the people from revolting and there's the possibility to hire mercs - why not, keeps the people quiet until a regular army is ready and then they're kicked out

Furthermore I sometimes use them for castle assaults as well. And that's about all...

[Foreign Devil]

Quote[/b] (Daevyll @ Dec. 07 2002,16:06)]I tend to play a little subgame called 'collect all the units'

I take one of every type of unit I can build/bribe/hire and put them in a 'museum' province
Can you really get every unit type? I'll hafta try this, sounds like fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Omega]

I used to hire mercs a lot pre-patch. In the early period and especially if I decided to go for an agressive strategy. Actually it felt a bit like cheating, because you could recruit late period units with ease and the AI viceversa didnt seem to take advantage of it.
Post-patch things have changed a lot as I discovered playing English, early on hard...
To sustain my armies on the continent while I was conquering Scotland & Wales I built a tavern in Normandie and started buying steadily good cav and spearman. At a certain point before high period I had almost all of france, british islands and a couple of regions (via-crusades) in the north east. But the flow of money wouldn't improve at all and i started going through the support cost of the units... and surprise surprise mercs were costing me from 80 to 100 florins per unit, per year (they were all at 0 lvl). I had about 10-15 of them plus all the normal units.
That terrible mistake stopped all infrastructure improvements for years, and since then I've always been behind other factions in technology.
A curious thing is that the leading tech (and richest) faction is the Papacy Who wiped out Italians, Hungarians, occupied the totality of Spain, eastern europe and is pushing back Byzs from Turkey to Middle east. Oh, they have a citadel almost in every region...

[HopAlongBunny]

Quote[/b] (Daevyll @ Dec. 07 2002,16:06)]I tend to play a little subgame called 'collect all the units'

I take one of every type of unit I can build/bribe/hire and put them in a 'museum' province

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
What a great idea

[DonCoyote]

To answer Foreign_Devil's question, merc costs are hire price = 50% equivelant unit training price but the annual maintenance is 200% that of the trained unit.

So use mercs to get units that you can't train at that time, or if you are desperate for some men in a hurry. But don't keep them on unnecessarily.

Don Coyote

[Foreign Devil]

Ah. So thats how it works. Tanks for the info, Coyote.

[Nelson]

I usually hire siege engines and troops I can't raise myself. AUM, longbowmen, Italian infantry and Arab/African units for desert campaigns are high on the list. If they do well I keep them on. I'll occasionally even have a good merc general.

[hundurinn]

No I don't use them they cost a lot of money and you could use the money in training better troops. And they have very little loyalty one of my mercenari generals made a rebellion against me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif But i killed him and that felt good since i have NEVER used mercenaries unless i REALLY HAVE TO DO SO.

[SmokWawelski]

Very good points. I agree that the upkeep cost for these troops is too much to keep them around. I therefore only use mercs in three instances:
- Siege weapons, as the buildings to get these are not high on my list, and I usually starve opponents out without direct assault...
- High quality mercs early in the game when I need the edge over the AI and this is the only source to get them, when you invest in farms and not castles or spear makers guilds....
- When I need the troops NOW, for example when a fraction is reappearing or something...
Otherwise, they are too expensive too use, but, if you consider in the cost of buildings needed to train them, and the fact that you could use that money for something else............

[Musashi]

If I see longbows I generally hire them... I mean, who would pass up longbows?

-Musashi

[Al Qasim Hussein]

I hire them for siege weapons, especially early on in the game. I have never played the italians but I have used their infantry as mercs and have never regretted it.

The best part about merc units is I don't care what happens to them at all. Thus they can suffer huge losses while the units that cost less and have been built by me, for me, are preserved to fight another day (hopefully w/ no morale vices thanks to super-expendable mercs).

[SmokWawelski]

To all these people who treat their mercs as cannon fodder: What about the troop quality? You do not care to send fine infantry to their death but preserve some less valuable units (early games) only because you trained them

That is not a good strategy at all........
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[FesterShinetop]

Some people just get emotionally attached too quickly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[SmokWawelski]

Quote[/b] ]Some people just get emotionally attached too quickly Good one Apache

They should play The Sims then, not M:TW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Musashi]

Well, mercenaries aren't really useful for anything other than suicide runs since you can't use them as a long term force because they can't be reinforced.

-Musashi

[Sad Tomato]

As the byzantines i use merc spear units to shore up a defensive army. normaly i will only have a couple of merc units in a stack, don't need a rebellion on my hands.
once i had a saracen infantry unit hold while my spearmen turned tail and run. these guys saved the battle for me, while they stood there and suffered hell, some of my cav managed to kill the enemy general and in an instant i went from retreating off the field to winning the day.
i also use bulgarian brigands as they are fast for a foot unit. i usually end up running them around the battlefield alot.
merc artillery are real handy considering the building requirements needed to train them.
If i need some fast cav and i can't train them i will use merc substitutes.
mercs have their negatives, bad loyalty (historicaly accurate), pricey to maintain (makes sense), can't replace losses (how would 'retraining' mercs be implemented?).
i think these are quite reasonable drawbacks.

on assaulting castles, i don't think using mercs is cost effective. i mean you still have to pay for them. i prefer to train some cheap units to assault a castle with such as peasants (always the first wave, shields better units from initial artillery attacks) and militias. if worst comes to worst then i'll throw in some assault units for a reserve force in case the expendables don't do the job.

[FesterShinetop]

For assaulting castles hiring mercs is an easy and fast way to get some siege weapons if you don't have them (nearby).

[Cash]

I don't use Mercs early but do hire them to slow down large number attacks. I am playing Egypt and in the 1300's the Golden Horde has raised its ugly head. 13,000 troops are attacking my outpost and I am having to hire as many Mercs as I can to slow their advance. The Mercs are going through my troops like a hot knife through butter. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif I keep hoping the Khan will die on each turn.

[Cash]

I meant the Horde is going through my troops. Whoops http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Foreign Devil]

Merc seige weapons do not have overly expensive upkeep costs, so i usually keep around a few mangonels and catapults on the front when I'm at war. When I need them, I just take them to the appropriate provence.

[Dr_No]

i use mercs heavily in the early parts of the game of give a serious technology edge over other factions. i've noticed the use of inns is much more important post patch as so many key units are stuck in later era's (i play the Turks and HRE a lot). also the AI builds inn's but never seems to get mercs?

...always snap up some of those mangonols and trebuchets cos they take so damn long to build.... also find they're great fun for an unexpected rampaging slash and burn sacrifice army...

[DojoRat]

I use Mercs for siege weapons and castle assaults like most of us but will use them to give me the edge early on. Heavy cav are a good value. They're expensive, but they dominate the battle field and when your expansion is over you can dispand them and not leave a big hole in your garrison.

[Kraxis]

I used to almost live off the mercs as Byzantine, back when you could reinforce them and when they could reinforce own troops (a very cheap way to bring expensive troops up to numbers again). The more I hired the better troops showed up, and the more I hired again... a nice little spiral. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I loved that I could reinforce my regular army Alans... But that time is over... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Now I only use mercs if they have some special units, I need a desperate defensive force or I need to attack easily defended areas.

[ICantSpellDawg]

mercs are great when you need to take lands back or break sieges really fast, but i wish that through wins they could become assimilated into your army and not have such insignificant loyalties.

its also nice to see different units in game earlier on

[candidgamera]

Like mercs, per some other comments:
Nice way to get seige engines - just another building set not needed.

As HRE, been using Friesland and Anjou as my inn spots and picked up some nice cavalry - Several K.Cavalry, Turcomen Horse, & even a Knight Hospitaler and a B. Cavalry. Great way to access units you can't build because of your faction.

The first Longbow I see of course he's mine.