Was Shogun the better (balanced) game?

[Michael the Great]

Let's see....

[solypsist]

I think there's more room for variables in MTW; the units in STW were a little too rock-papers-scissors and after a while the game became more about developing strategies to beat known odds than strategies and gameplay to beat armies.

[Leet Eriksson]

I want japan in MTW(although i did'nt vote for that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif )but with every samurai including the archers being armoured its going to be REAL easy for japan to take over.

[Dionysus9]

Highland Clansmen vs. Nodachi You Know You Want It

[Michael the Great]

Quote[/b] (Dionysus9 @ Nov. 24 2002,15:49)]Highland Clansmen vs. Nodachi You Know You Want It
Yeahhhhhhh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Katasaki Hirojima]

Actually, most MTW units have more armour then the Shogun units do. FOr instance Arbalesters have 3 armour, where Samurai Archers only had 1.

[Azrael]

Hey Guys,

I agree with Solypsist on the "rock, paper, scissor" bit and the comment about strategies to "beat known odds".

I like the fact that different Units work better in different formations, making selecting half your army and hitting the 'ol "W" key not necessarily the right way to approach every battle.

I also like the fact that there is a "cap" on valour in MP, i.e. it maxes at four (in STW what could you crank it to? 9?), though I do think it would be nice to have some Units that would actually fight to the death.

Japanese troops in MTW? That would be interesting. What stopped the Japanese from expanding like the Golden Horde in the first place?

Azrael

[Kraxis]

Geographics, China and Korea stopped Japanese expansion. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

If the samurais were to be imported into MTW they would have to reworked a lot. No-Dachis would get beaten by almost all good infantry and be more expensive. Even Monks would have a tough time.

[CBR]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Nov. 25 2002,13:24)]....No-Dachis would get beaten by almost all good infantry and be more expensive. Even Monks would have a tough time.
Well that depends on the florin/koku exchange rate doesnt it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

CBR

[Kraxis]

Lets see... 60 Yari Ashigaru, 100 koku. 60 Urban Militia 100 florins. Yari Ashi is actually only better against cavalry. So I suspect the exchangerate would be around 1:1. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[baz]

i also agree with soly, he is right in that stw was a much simpler game to balance, there are a great number of extra variables present in a battle for M:tw that will effect the outcome. ie. different units (many more), different upgrade structures and also different bonuses.

for more info on these points see the jousting fields http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif there are some interesting threads in there that give examples of how hard it has been to balance the game http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Brown Wolf]

In my opinnion Shougun had the problem of being redundant. Everybody had the same units. All it was, was just large armies. And not enough swords http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[LordKhaine]

In MP, it sounds like it was. In sp both were kinda uneven.

Ports anyone?

[Foreign Devil]

Speaking of ports, do they seem a little too convinent to anyone else?

[Arkatreides]

I prefer MTW. The units might not be balanced but at least the provinces are and you no longer get the Hojo tank.

[Daveybaby]

Personally, i like the fact that they are different games. I like the rock-paper-scissors elegance of shogun, and i also like the chaotic variety of medieval. I am very very glad that i get to play two very different games, and not just the same game twice with different graphics.

Here's hoping the next installment in the Total War series will be something different again.

[Michael the Great]

Weeell...I think the Yari Cavalry beating Heavy Cavalry was for balancing issues...or..wasn't it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[hoom]

I like the austerity and more polished execution of Shogun better.
Naginata and Nagimaki (the short naginata) are totally cool weapons http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
You didn't get all bogged down every turn running through all your provinces micromanaging. You couldn't because the map was simpler. This allows you to get on with conquoring.

Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the depth & chaotic complexity of M:TW

[Michael the Great]

Ok,so,we have:
Yari Samurai and Ashigaru,the normal bonuses vs cav,and a little more armor plz.
Samurai Archers,can beat any archer type in the game h2h,except hybrid archers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Naginata,AP and bonus attackig cav.
No-Dachi,very strong charge(about 6-8),armor pierceing,and a little better speed than rest of infantry.
Warrior Monks,AP,not a good charge,the same moral,and I'm not sure they should get bonus attacking cav with that weapon,what do u think?
Yari Cavalry,superior speed,strong charge,and...bonus vs sword cav,like in Shogun??
Heavy Cavalry,AP,strong morale and heavy armor.......
Cavalry Archers..not much 2 say here....
The rest of the units(Naginata Cav...) should be left the same.

So,these r thy units Japan should have,what do ye think,any chance of defeating late era catholic powers??

[carnage]

i voted for i like the variety but i have to say you cant go without the original http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif it will alays be the best for it created mtw http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Michael the Great]

Did Japan had any "early" "high" and "late" units?

[NinjaKilla]

STW was the best game ever made.
MI was utter shit IMO. :o
MTW is pretty damned good, though I ve stopped comparing it to STW cos essentially its a different game. The paper/scissors/stone isn't so pronounced, fatigue is totally different, theres way more units and the gamespeed makes tactics slightly different.

Fundamentalism will never die

[solypsist]

one of the poll options is Units in Shogun were too specialised in killing another, which makes me wonder if I'd bother with a unit that wasn't specialized in killing.

I preferred the flavor of STW, and the original Naginata icons. MTW is still good, but the only real again-mentioned "flavor" is when you play the Muslims.

[Leet Eriksson]

yea,the muslims were totally differentmost catholics have the same units and a few uniques for every faction(except france where they have no uniques at all).I liked britian though they seem to rip off unique units from every faction(kerns=murabitin,clansmen=vikings....etc etc)

[youssof_Toda]

I'm a little confused what you exactly mean by balance.
In the sence of balance of units in mp MTW can't even get close to STW. I have to agree with Ninja that STW had it all. If you knew how to use the units you could beat a superior army with an inferior one. As for the rest the game is very different so hard to compare. I like the new looks of the game and some more realistic settings like units routing in all directions. SP (give me a break in the beginning I had no internet connection here) is way better than in STW.

[TheViking]

Ofcus theres more units to choice from in MTW theres many more factions to be, in STW all could only be japan thats why there only are 10+ units to pick from.

Does any faction at all in MTW have so many units, that only can be chosed from that faction. now i dont mean all the spearunits cus all faction can have them.

Take england i.e. longbowmen, billmen. Have i missed any??