The AI fails to utilise trade routes.

[+DOC+]

I've noticed that the AI really fails to utilise Constantinople and Venice to their full potential simply because the AI never leaves a ship in the Sea Marmara and the Adriatic.

In many games testing my mods, etc, i've noticed the AI really values certain provinces for placing ships in. These, somewhat predictably, tend to be:

Sicily
Morocco
Wessex

In these three provinces there are usually massive stacks of AI ships, probably because these represent choke points for ships to travel round the map.

However, some of the most important faction-related sea provinces are essentially failed to be used to their potential as a result. There are two glaringly obvious examples here:

Sea Marmara (Constantinople)
Adriatic Sea (Venice)

The Adriatic Sea is essential for the Italians as it connects the very highly profitable Venice to the rest of the Mediterranean. Then you have Sea Marmara, the gold mine for the Byzantine's which connects Constantinople to the rest of the Med. These are almost always left open by the Italians and Byzs throughout the game. Why? You tell me... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Something's not quite right here.

[econ21]

Interesting observation, +DOC+. More generally, trade gives rise to the biggest game balance problem with the SP campaign game, IMHO. A smart human will always prioritise building ships and extending a massive network of trade routes. The AI does not do either. Once trade is up and running, the human economy will take off - allowing military expansion. I think this could be tweaked - maybe lowering the return to trading or changing the AIs priorities. Ideally, both. Your observation might be even easier for CA to correct.

[+DOC+]

This is one observation that would certainly need to be tweaked if the AI were to maximise their potential trade income. Ye see, currently one can get the AI to build more of the trade related things, however, one can't improve how the AI operates its ships once they're built. LEaving Constantinople and Venice without ships in their sea zones is plain stupidity on the AI's behalf and the human would certainly never make that mistake. One can help the Italian AI though by simply swapping Venice's and Genoa's tradable goods around, since the Italian AI likes to have ships off the cost of Genoa, but not Venice? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Like i say.... bumping up the AI's tendency to build merchants, shipyards, ports and ships is necessary as the AI doesn't appreciate the real value of having a navy. Not only does it substantially improve income but it also helps protect their homelands against seaborne invasions and allows them to attack via the sea (if unopposed). Fortunately, these modifications we can do ourselves

See the Dungeon and especially Kraellin's threads for further details.

[A.Saturnus]

In my current campaign, Byz has build quiet effective trade routes, however, this is rare. It would be more challenging if the AI would build more routes, I`m usually the richest after 50 years or so.

[+DOC+]

i love to get a developer's perspective on this....

However, i know this isn't Gil's field and ECS is currently swanning about on a mammoth holiday, the skiving **** http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[rpasell]

I agree with all points made.

Simple observation - playing as the Sicilians, the English built a formidable navy of around 25 - 30 ships, and left them all in two sea zones. 2 ships in the North Sea, and the rest (around 25 ships) in the Channel. It blew my mind as moving the ships out would've easily increased their income 10 fold.

It also makes it easier for the human player to dominate the AI. Because the AI doesn't bother building or miss deploys it's navy, it make it much easier to destroy said navy.

[MizuKokami]

it would seem that much of the sea related issues in this game needs a bit of work. i had shipping route stretched from moldavia to rhodes, and tho the v key showed clear trade routes, neither constansinopel nor greece accepted my moldavian wheat. gilsmith...could you take a look at that?

[Musashi]

Well, I don't know why it works, but when I halved the build time for all buildings, the AI began cranking out a lot more ships, and opposing my inevitable bids for naval supremacy, including widely distributed navies.

-Musashi

[LadyAnn]

I think the algorithm of building ships (or any slow build time units) by AI need work.

Annie

[Kraxis]

If one thinks about it, then if the AI began to have traderoutes we would not see much of the Dark Ages MOD... ehh game, as it can get at times when rebellions pop up and/or factions fight over provinces time and again.
Further we would see plenty of high quality troops, not just Urban Militia and Spearmen along with the Royals. I would love to see more Feudal Knights that don't come from Loyalist rebellions or resurrected factions. I want to see the French hoard on Chivalric Knights, I want the English to have plenty of Longbows and Billmen, I want... I want it all

[deejayvee]

I find that the AI is less concerned with building up trade routes and more concerned with just blockading mine Hence why there are always a lot of ships off Sicily and near Gibralter.

[MizuKokami]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Dec. 12 2002,15:00)]If one thinks about it, then if the AI began to have traderoutes we would not see much of the Dark Ages MOD... ehh game, as it can get at times when rebellions pop up and/or factions fight over provinces time and again.
Further we would see plenty of high quality troops, not just Urban Militia and Spearmen along with the Royals. I would love to see more Feudal Knights that don't come from Loyalist rebellions or resurrected factions. I want to see the French hoard on Chivalric Knights, I want the English to have plenty of Longbows and Billmen, I want... I want it all
i think even with greater trade, the ai would still have all those peasants and urban militia men, as they start to build their forces as soon as they can in their new territories, instead of waiting for better units,,,they start to build peasants as soon as they have a fort. they start building urban militia as soon as they have town guards. it also seems that the ai thinks numbers of men equals power, but we all know that 1000 peasants is not equal to 100 royal knights. but if that was all the units involved, the 1000 peasants would still get the largest army notification. it should seek powerful armies instead of numbers.