View Full Version : Janissary archers...
Leet Eriksson
12-11-2002, 14:54
Recently i ran some tests on them in custom battle and campaign,they are THE best archers in the game(even better than longbowmen although longbowmen had longer range)they killed more units than the JI did and well they had more ammo and rangeand they are good against broken units and other archers in hand-to-hand combat.try putting five units in two ranks and double line formation and watch how they sluaghter slow units and make quick work of them.also try them against other archers,THEY SHOOT TO KILLand thats my 2 cents on them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
hmmm I havent run any comparative tests myself, but I can tell you that they definately do _not_ have more ammo than JI (or any other archer for that matter.. all have 28 afaik).
You can check it for yourself in tha stats file.
I did some extensive tests on archers of all kinds before the patch to acertain the best archer. My result was the Turcoman Foot, followed by the Jannisary Archer.
In reality they have the same stats for their bows... all non mounted and non longbows have the sbow and it is equally good in all units. Or is it...
Turcomans have several advantages over the other archers, they are armoured, they have shields, they are fast and they are in a big staggered formation, almost in Loose. This makes them perfect for battles with other archers.
Also, in MP I tried a new High tactic, one that can be very dangerous. I had Turcoman Foot in front with extra Armour and Valours if money were for it, Jannisary Archers with Weapons next and last I had Jannisary Heavies to protect from cavalry and deliver the coupe de grace to my enemies. The last four units could be Ghazi or cavalry depending on situation and enemy.
It is very important to give the Turcomans Valour as they have -1 Morale and then the great defensive value is worth nothing.
But the tactic was the Turcomans to soak up arrows and bolts (damn them for taking arbs) with their great armour, and even soak up charges of enemy infantry. Then the Jannisary Archers with their good attack would join and beat up the enemy. The JHI would wait for the right moment when losses were high or if the enemy would commit cavalry.
In three battles in a row I won using this, but it is still a risky tactic. People most often don't know the defensive strength of the Turcoman Foot and thus consider them as just another weak archer, while they in fact are a wall. They will charge them believing victory is near, then become puzzled when the Turcomans take it all and suffer few losses. I have seen my Turcomans soak up Gothics (but that is dangerous as they have AP).
A.Saturnus
12-11-2002, 16:02
Don`t JI have better armor than Turcoman?
No, it is the same, 3. But Turcomans have shields making them Armour 4 from the front, and in effect giving them and advantage in defense as well. And lastly they are cheaper.
desdichado
12-13-2002, 07:01
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Dec. 12 2002,00:31)]People most often don't know the defensive strength of the Turcoman Foot and thus consider them as just another weak archer, while they in fact are a wall. They will charge them believing victory is near, then become puzzled when the Turcomans take it all and suffer few losses. I have seen my Turcomans soak up Gothics (but that is dangerous as they have AP).
well you've just blown your secret methinks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Kongamato
12-13-2002, 07:43
Before this thread I looked at TWA and saw that the JBs weapons were given a crossbow designation, resulting in higher damage and accuracy. If missiles get tweaked in later editions, these guys would show great value. However, a good present use for them would be to use them in low florin games, where low armor values would help them kill in great numbers.
Quote[/b] (Kongamato @ Dec. 13 2002,00:43)]Before this thread I looked at TWA and saw that the JBs weapons were given a crossbow designation, resulting in higher damage and accuracy.
Seems I have to leave another message for Honestus. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Quote[/b] ]well you've just blown your secret methinks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Not at all... so few people read this thread that it is hardly risky. Also Turcomans are worth nothing more than being pincushions and targets... So it is still very risky to use them as they have bad Morale.
I just like to use them as most people treat them as another archer. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I like a little deception.
Leet Eriksson
12-13-2002, 20:27
i used turcomen extensively in the turkish campaign,very useful indeed,you can use them as light infantry aside form range combat,but only when the enemy was broken(or in loose formation).
You can use Ottoman Infantry as your shock troops in that scenario btw (They have axes... Armor piercing) and the enemy will really think you're a paper tiger since you appear to have nothing but archers...
This also has the advantage of giving you a higher volume of fire before the actual dust up starts.
Now if only JHI had extra spears for throwing...
-Musashi
Quote[/b] (Musashi @ Dec. 13 2002,19:21)]Now if only JHI had extra spears for throwing...
Hahaha... would they not be a little overpowered perhaps? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
But in reality I have come to believe that most people know the Ottomans while they don't know the Turcomans. When ever I mention Ottomans people go "Ohhh those infantry with bows" while Turcomans are treated as another archer unit. Just like Jannisary Infantry is treated with respect while Jannisary Archers are treated with contempt (I try to use this to my advantage).
my Byzantines would still cut them to peices http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
fenir http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
lets not forget the nizari's....different faction, but if you like nubeian(SP i know) spears then they do just as well.
Leet Eriksson
12-16-2002, 09:45
your byzantines would be dead by the time they try to melee it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Longbows r armour piercing so r better http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
TenkiSoratoti
12-16-2002, 17:08
May be wise to bring one archer along
Daveybaby
12-16-2002, 17:16
When are people going to realise that running 1-on-1 tests prove nothing? Each unit tends to have more than 1 ability, and its how you use different units in combinations with and against each other that makes the difference.
In some circumstances, janissaries will probably be best. In others, desert archers, or longbows or crossbows, or pavise arbs.
There IS no 'best unit'. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif
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