When Romans Tot War and mods?

[ket222]

with all these delays, has work on Romans total war begun or when can we expect it? do we have to wait another year? also why aren't other companies copying this incredible game with different battles, settings, cultures at war?
also will mods be possible now after mongol release(will they share code nec for this?) for different battles like medieval europe? will people here begin to do them soon after mongol release? Combat mission has incredible mods, but here they are just adding a map--not very interesting!

[Koga No Goshi]

The reason not more games like Shogun are around is because Shogun is too difficult for the average player. Marketshare. Look at how many people are on Shogun any given night. Look how many people are on Starcraft any given night. We're a drop in the bucket of the gaming marketshare.



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Koga no Goshi

"Nandai"
Since time began
the dead alone know peace.
Life is but melting snow.

[NARF]

What exactly do you mean by too difficult for the average player? Im horrible at most games I buy but I was good at this for some rerason.

[Zaxxon]

Before E3, Creative Assembly said they were going to be announcing the sequel to Shogun. Well, it's 2 months after E3 and I haven't heard a thing. We don't even know if the setting is still going to be the Roman Era. Don't be supprised if CA decides to change the sequel to a different time period. Afterall, Eidos is working on a Romans game(Praetorians) of their own. Although I don't believe Praetorians will be anywhere near as good as Total War. But as far as information on the sequel nobody knows. Maybe we can ask Richie, since he's such a wealth of information! LOL!!! And yes I was being sarcastic.

remember, we DON'T WANT ROMANS in first place !!!

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I'm a man... I can change... If I have to...
...I guess...

[Alastair]

We don't?

[radan]

Quote Originally posted by JayDee Daidoji:
remember, we DON'T WANT ROMANS in first place !!!
[/QUOTE]

Yeah! Agree...

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--RADAN(RONIN ashigaru)--
A member of CLAN..what no CLAN??

[nodachiwarrior]

actually a Romans game would be good!!

think about it, siege weapons, chariots,
etc..etc.. as long as they don`t make the Romans to powerful it could be a great game!!



[This message has been edited by nodachiwarrior (edited 07-20-2001).]

alastair- no we don't, trust me...

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I'm a man... I can change... If I have to...
...I guess...

[Erado San]

Errr... remember Question Time 2? The vast majority wanted Romans.

But yes, I belong to the minority as well. But it probably will be Romans.

[Koga No Goshi]

Well, not too difficult, but maybe requires too much brainpower. I know it has taken me a lot longer to become proficient at Shogun than other real time strategies like Age of Empires, Starcraft, etc. where you basically learn one strategy and it is translate-able into all the other RTS's.

Shogun stands aside, proud and unique.



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Koga no Goshi

"Nandai"
Since time began
the dead alone know peace.
Life is but melting snow.

Quote Originally posted by Erado San:
Errr... remember Question Time 2? The vast majority wanted Romans.

But yes, I belong to the minority as well. But it probably will be Romans.[/QUOTE]

nope. i don't want to. it just goes to show some bad things about the majority http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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I'm a man... I can change... If I have to...
...I guess...

[Erado San]

Well, Jay, let's hope our minority never chamges into a mjority. They'll start saying nasty things about us then... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[EuroSan]

I want the "Crusades" era.....Templar Knights vs Saladins arabic hordes http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif




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May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

[Toranaga sama]

I agree... a crusades era would be fun to play.

Quote Originally posted by Erado San:
Well, Jay, let's hope our minority never chamges into a mjority. They'll start saying nasty things about us then... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]

you know, i'm not afraid of becoming a majority in pretty much anything http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

(oh wait... that makes me a FREAK hehehe)

[Vanya]

Well... if they made an americas game featuring the spanish conquests... but wait... perhaps the little conquistadores would be too unbalanced... a few of those and you would kiss your indigenous army goodbye. Oh well... fughettabatit!

[Erado San]

Well, you do realise that they have started the development for the next release in the Total War family a long time ago, so our 'Wanna wanna wanna' posts won't do much good.

[NARF]

WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!

[Alastair]

And why don't we want Romans again?

[NARF]

Personally I do because I wanna see the disciplined formations of 1000 roman sodleirs marching down a hill to get slaughtered by Samurai Archers.

geeeezus do i have to explain everything...

we don't want them because we don't like them of course !

now grab a piece of paper and write it down at least a hundred times. repeat if necessary http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

and yes, somebody think about the children ! look at the subject- Roman Tit War ? u krazy ? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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I'm a man... I can change... If I have to...
...I guess...

[Alastair]

Well obviously there would be a command called shield, which would have them do that thing you see in all movies with Romans in them where the second row puts its shields to cover the gap between the first row's heads and its shields. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif I really don't think they'd get slaughtered by archers. Also, romans did have different kinds of troops, such as archers, bendy spear troops (forget the name, look in the troop mixing thread) things like that.

[Vlad]

The Romans era is good, but the Crusades era would be fantastic. Templar knigts, muslim assasins, mameluks, castles, etc.

[nodachiwarrior]

"which would have them do that thing you see in all movies with Romans in them where the second row puts its shields to cover the gap between the first row's heads and its shields"

wasn`t that called the "turtois" formation?

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

I'm guessing that the period will be much later than romans.....A period where you have some artillery of some sorts.

I'm guessing that the thunderbombers are a kind of a test for this, being the first unit in this series with an area effect.

[Kraellin]

yup. that's my guess too, kuma. possibly napoleonic.

K.

[LordTed]

I think so to, but then it will be all gun fights.

[NARF]

Or cannon barrages

[ishikawa2]

Quote Originally posted by nodachiwarrior:
the second row puts its shields to cover the gap between the first row's heads and its shields"

wasn`t that called the "turtois" formation? [/QUOTE]

Actually I believe that is "TESTUDO", meaning "turtle", but if "turtois" means turtle then I guess you're right.

[Alastair]

Napoleonic is simply too big, I've decided. 100,000 man armies on AVERAGE. The larger ones were 200,000. Napoleon brought 400,000 fighting men into Russia. _TOOOO_ _BIG_

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Well, the actual Sengoku armies were about ten to twenty times bigger than what we get in STW with 120 man units, so it's not like unit size disparities would stop us...

However, as far as KumaRatta-san's "experimental units" theory is concerned, the TBs might alternatively be a prototype unit for those neat mega-napalm catapults we saw in The Gladiator - and the Korean Skirmishers, with their shields and javelins, could be legionnaires by any other name (if their HtH ratings were better, that is).

If you want my opinion (and even if you don't http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif) the "experimental units" theory points toward a future Roman game. The "leak" on some game site that originally started this speculation does too, and considering how all Napoleonic era games have been botched of late, the STW devs would have to be mighty brave to venture onto that battlefield. My bets are on Rome.

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"It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion."
- Joseph Goebbels

[Vanya]

Aye... and I recall speculation that the korean skirmishers were prototypes of the Roman legionnaires... shield-carrying, javelin-hurling heavy infantry.

[Alastair]

I'm not sure you follow me. The battles were so big that a single person could not command the whole thing. The outcomes were decided mostly by the skill of the marshals, not by the skill of the generals. Napoleon could give orders as he liked, but if Ney or Murat botched them or ignored them, he was powerless to stop them, because he couldn't be in three places at once.

[Vanya]

Was Ney a nay-sayer?

[The Black Ship]

If you truly want a gun-dominated "Napoleanic" setting game then just buy Cossacks. It has your cannons and such. I personnally can't stand the game, but maybe you guys will (in fact I think it's a sign of how starved we are for a good strategy game that they're actually coming out with an expansion...egad!)

A truly good Romans:Total War would be so refreshing.

[This message has been edited by The Black Ship (edited 07-25-2001).]

[Alastair]

Cossacks = AOK. AOK = Cossacks. Cossacks not = Napoleonic.

[Alastair]

No, Ney was a very stupid man who could and would not command more than 10,000 men. (even if he was assigned more)

[Catiline]

THunder bombers aren't trial artillery, at least not in the Napoleonic sense. Battlefield artillery didn't generally work like that, ie they used connon balls or grapeshot not shells. Hence you need artillry that knocks down files or works like a giant shotgun depending on what's loaded in it.

And they'd better not put those neat napalm catapults in anty Roman game. Not buying it if they do.

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Unless the Persians fly away like birds, hide in the earth like mice, or leap into a lake like frogs, they will never see their homes again, but will die under our arrows

[vangersonm]

I have a screen shot of "Legions of Rome: Total WAR"



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If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.
If his forces are united, separate them.

Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where
you are not expected.

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

(OK I'll bite)

Well Show me the screenshot!!!!!

JD i am bumping this thread back up especially for you, because i am a left wing reactionary bastard... Must be my French Blood frying (yep a french fry)....Vive la révolution!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif





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KumaRatta Yamamoto (Emissary of the ratta clan)Sonkei soshite yuki Ratta Ichizoku. Come and visit us : www.rattaclan.homestead.com (http://www.rattaclan.homestead.com)

[A Nerd]

I would personally prefer a medieval version of Total War. But Roman wouldn't be bad either. I think all complaints about a Roman version will fade with the release of the MI due to so much stored frustration being vented on our mock battles.

[LusitanoMaster]

U guys talk to much crap (no offense)

Cossaks = Age of conquerors. haha.
I have bought games, they are so different, i dont play no more cossaks or little, cosssaks has a very bad gameplay.
Age of conquerors, still the king, age series is the best games for online ever made, gameplay is fantastic and the game is deep.( maybe empires earth will take aoc place).
Shogun is good game, nice to watch , but gameplay stills poor. Gets boring with time, strategies are short, interface has only a few options for a wargamer rts. In november, Warriors kings game is out, it´s same gender of shogun, maybe a better game.
For me ,Gettysburb(made by Sid) still the best wargame ever created.

Legions killed by archers , damn u such a ignorant,Legionaires had a big shield,they had a special formation to defend v range atacks ,in fact they had so many formations for many roles. Cohorts were a war machine, discipline soldiers, the legionaires were so damn good , balance unit , strong in both roles, defense and atack. They could stand v a archer or cav atack pretty good. In fact they were smarter, great discipline.

Romans for a game , that would be the best idea, The Roman Empire was probably the greatest empire in the history of the world. It was the largest, richest, best-organized and longest lasting. Between the years of 553 to 953 AUC (200 BC to 200 AD), the empire spread from the Italian heartland across all of Western Europe, the Balkans, the lands around the Mediterranean, North Africa, the Middle East, and even parts of the Soviet Union.

Guarding this vast area was a Roman Army consisting of about 28 Legions, a force of approximately 160,000 legionaries, plus an additional force of some 220,000 auxiliary troops in other types of units. It was this army that created the Roman Empire and protected it for over 1000 years. The heart and strength of this protective fighting force was the legionary.

Legio X Fretensis - IV Cohort

I will try to explain to u how Legions worked, the following description is just one typical battle tactic that could be employed against the enemy.
The Signifer sounds the call for Battle Formation as the order is shouted, "Form Battle Lines! Battle!" Ad aciem - Pugna! The Centurio gives the order to follow the standard and march towards the enemy, Signo sequate - Moveo! A halt is ordered when the front line reaches a distance of about 100 yards from the enemy's front. Consiste! The Archers and Slingers are ordered forward about 25 yards. The Archers fire a high arcing shower of arrows. The Slingers fire a lower trajectory aimed at the enemy's waist and head.

After a period of time, the Slingers are ordered to the rear. The Archers will continue to fire their arrows while the Legion's front advances past them to a distance that is about 100 feet from the enemy. The front two ranks will now receive the order to plant their pila. Pila infige! The Optio marks the front line. The Centurio now gives the order to throw the pilum. Pila iace! This is quickly followed by the order to throw their second pilum. Swords are now drawn and the advance is made to engage the enemy. Gladium stringe! Parati - Oppugnare! - Impetus!

The next two rows advance to the Optio's mark. Now they, in turn, repeat the action of throwing their two pila. Swords are drawn and held at the ready as they slowly move forward to back up the front ranks, now engaging the enemy. The archers have ceased firing. The fifth row is stationed nearby as a reserve line.

[Alastair]

Learn to spell. I think this link http://www.roman-empire.net/army/army.html
can explain the Roman army a lot better than you can. And it can spell.

[666HellSpawn]

I read a review of a game called 'Praetorian' a few weeks ago which is pretty much an STW clone with Romans and Egyptians.... and yes, you can use the 'tortoise shell' shield defence!
Can't remember the release date though.

HellSpawn


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[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

Alistair the guy is portuguese, you can't expect perfect english...

[Alastair]

Oops. He sounded like one of those people who intentionally choose not to spell correctly (the kind Jaydee makes fun of). My apologies.

[Koga No Goshi]

I am a fan of the Age of Empires series, though I don't think it can be directly applied as a comparison to Shogun. They're two very different types of strategy games. Shogun is not a pure real time strategy, the strategic part is turn based. Therefore unlike in Age of Empires, you can't interactively disrupt enemy production and such while he's trying to focus on, say, fighting you elsewhere. That does change strategy quite a bit.

My biggest complaints about the Age of Empires games is that the battle is very simplistic compared to Shogun. For example, in Age of Kings with your units in loose formation, siege weapons will still devastate you. In Shogun, putting your units in loose formation makes a big difference. Also, archers are more realistically portrayed in Shogun. Archers were never decisive on the battlefield, they were just used to cause casualties and morale damage prior to the onset of hand to hand combat. In the Age of Empires games, you can fight an entire war with nothing but archers if it pleases you, and whup some butt. One thing that might be neat for Shogun would be the addition of warship units, but I can see how with the present battle model in the game it wouldn't be very feasible.

One bad strike against Shogun is the computer AI having unlimited resources with regard to raising units. Reducing an enemy computer clan to only a couple of provinces towards the end of the game really makes no difference, they can still afford to sport huge multiple 16-unit armies. In the Age of Empires games, disrupting enemy economy and production can be a huge factor. In Shogun, the player is really the only person who has to worry about resources.



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Koga no Goshi

"Nandai"
Since time began
the dead alone know peace.
Life is but melting snow.

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

Alistair : Thank you (bow)

Koga: Right on the ball with your post. I found the last AoE a solid game with few bugs but i prefered Shogun for the atmosphere, the real time battles system and the turn based strategy. I think it's a matter of taste. But you are right Shogun was/is buggy ( the AI ressource cheat was one of those annoying bugs). You forgot to mentioned that AoE MP was far, far superior than Shogun MP. In fact Shogun MP is quite weak.

I guess that you are eagerly awaiting age of myth. In my case, i am waiting for the Shogun Ex-Pack and then Star wars Battleground (with the AoE engine).

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KumaRatta Yamamoto (Emissary of the ratta clan)Sonkei soshite yuki Ratta Ichizoku. Come and visit us : www.rattaclan.homestead.com (http://www.rattaclan.homestead.com)

[LusitanoMaster]

Koga, i couldn´t agree more.

I Finish the shogun campaign at expert level, i tried with 4 clans ,i fail with mori and takeda, i suceed with 2 : Hojo and e Uesugi, was both very hard, u need to atack and atack , special i notice the oda superpower, they keeping booming so many armies.Gets boring after played so many battles.

Have u guys ever played gettysburg ( made by sid , the creator of civilization), i dont like mplayer , in fact i only played gettysburg their . Best wargame ever , exelent concepts and gameplay.

Im gonna get the mongol invasion and im coming strongly

Good link their about romans , Alastair. Pls NARF take a look....

Kuma, nice page.

where do u guys usually play shogun? EA?

[Major_Dump Asai]

Agreed. People just dont seem to like this game. Everyone i recommended it to said they didnt like it because the battles move too slow and the controls were too hard. LOL

maybe if they figured out a way to incorporate breasts into the game it would sell better ....

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

Lusitano after playing SP for 6-7 months, i joined a clan and TRY (When the MP server is agreable) to play on EA.

I prefer friendly 2vs 2 or 3 vs3 (when nobody drops).

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KumaRatta Yamamoto (Emissary of the ratta clan)Sonkei soshite yuki Ratta Ichizoku. Come and visit us : www.rattaclan.homestead.com (http://www.rattaclan.homestead.com)

[horatio]

The idea of having a Crusades based Total War theme doesn't fit well I think because the TW combat engine is best when in open field combat, and seems to really suffer when in close quarters. And the Crusdaes were mostly one seige after another, so not really a good fit.

The Roman Empire could be good, but for me not a really interesting leap foward. It would be a good choice if the multiplayer campaign problems persist and are not curable in the near future. I mean to say, the Roman era would be good for more single player missions, but I can't see it being better for multiplayer, thematically.

My real hope is for some really expansive Neapolonic edition. Multiplayer Neopolinic campaigns. The issue of battle size was brought up and is very valid. But I propose this (hint, anybody listening), break each territorial conflict down from one big battle to multiple smaller battles. We know that most major battles were fought in stages over a period of days, and usually what happened at one end of the field was usually not felt at the other end until the next day when the reinforcements you wanted were used by some other division. Plus if you break it up, you have more options the save the game in stages, thus allowing people to play the game over time, instead of having to take one big bite.

Then of course my other hope for the same game would be a chain of command rating... but one thing at a time.

Breaking down the battles would slow things down, and thus make it probably not a casual multiplayer experience. But then neither is Evercrack.

wOOt ? do i hear my name... and not just once... what have i done now ? and what's that talk about me making fun... yay... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

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I'm a man... I can change... If I have to...
...I guess...