View Full Version : Medieval : Total Unrealism
AndersSchm
12-05-2002, 02:36
I was playing as the Polish and captured Lithuania. Seeing the bonus for Woodsmen in Lithuania I soon equipped myself with a large army of elite woodsmen led by my best 3 star general, I backed this up with archers and some steppe cavalry to provide a shock attack force.
Anyway I was soon in full scale war with the Byzantines so I sent my newly created army to do battle. I outnumbered the enemy, mostly made up of Byzantine Infantry and Trebizone Archers, by 2:1.
Knowing that Byzantine infantry can't fight cavalry I rushed them with my steppe cavalry while my woodsmen flanked and piled into their archers.
It wasn't going as well as I expected, my elite woodsmen weren't faring too well against the archers and my steppe cavalry were taking heavy losses from the byz infantry.
I am sure you will all be surprised to learn that the next thing my woodsmen are routing when charged by a unit of Varangian guard and then everyone else decided to flee as well.
I was amazed at how unrealistic this was - varangian guard are equipped with the same weaponry as my woodsmen yet they were not taking casualties in the melee. The trebizone archers were also equalling the woodsmen and this is totally unreal seeing as these archers aren't professional hand to hand fighters.
I've read my history - I know that the byzantines would have been slaughtered in such an engagement. I hope that in a future patch this can be resolved - these byzantine units are far too powerful.
it was never meant to be totally realistic, but can you imagine what it would be like if the byzantium troops were weakened? already they colapse at the hands of the middle east, if they were softened up anymore then what would stop those turks from dominating the easrly period?
balance makes fun
Hakonarson
12-05-2002, 03:30
I got news for you - any history you've read that says that "woodsmen" were professinal fighters probably had more pictures than words
"Woodsmen" are just specilised peasants.
That they look like they carry the same weapons as Varangian guard is a mere accident of art. The Varangians were professinoal warriors of course, heavily armoured and equipped with battle axes - about as much liek a woodsmans axe as a sword is like your kitchen knife.
Trebizond archers WERE actually regarded as very fierce fighters by their enemies - mainly the various Moslem states that existed in the rest of modern-day Turkey.
And as an aside - did you pay much attention to things like the ENEMY valour, tactical position, etc?
Usually you get 1 valour for producing "elite" units in a favoured province. That's not actually very much.
Overall your post comes across like the crying of my kids when they don't get what they want
People complaint about Byz a lot these days ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Byzantine Empire, being the richest faction at the time, was having a regular standing army, something other nations at the time just start to organize. The fame of the Eastern Roman Empire is not only the walls of Constantinople, but also the military mights of its army.
They rot from within (the Byzantine court was famous for plots and assassinations), so they may not be what they wanted to be: the successor of the mighty Roman Empire. But in 11th century, when the Turks are not yet on the rise, when the North and East of the Black Sea didn't see yet the devastation of the Golden Horde, when the trade in the Eastern Med is not yet monopolized by the Italians, when the Crusaders was not yet passing by and sometimes refuse to leave, Constantinople was the envy of everyone.
Without putting down the people proud to be Woodsmen, woodsmen are not too different than other non-professional armies: disorganize and having low morale. They couldn't affort the better shields, armours and weapons the professional armies have and paid for by the rich coffer of Byzantium.
Back to the game, regardless of how "real" this game is:
You have two misconception:
1. Byzantine Infantry could be run down by Stepp Horse. Steppe Horses are one of the weakest Cavalry unit in the game, having combat stat of 2/1. The Byzantine Infantry has a stat of 2/2, with 100 men instead of 40 horses. Byz.Inf. would have problem with heavier cavalry though.
2. Woodsmen is invulnerable to arrows or is a skillful unit. The stat is 1/-1, even the Trebizon Archers could beat them hand-to-hand ((2/0). BTW, you probably are facing the Treb. in your game, because they are owned by Byzantium. And the Treb. produced in Trebizon has +1 valour bonus, which give them 3/1 combat stats. That means after spending the arrows, the Treb can route your woodsmen in hand-to-hand combat.
3. Strategically, getting Byzantium early is good, only if you can have help of Turkey or Egypt. Fight Byzantium early is not a good idea. I know that Byzantium is trying to expand to Poland's backyard as well. But engage them early is not necessary good for Poland.
Annie
ps.: I have a Poland game going, but it doesn't go anywhere. I starts an Italian Campaign and get wiped out, so I restart another Italian Campaign. Will resume Poland later, as Poland is much harder.
shand994
12-05-2002, 03:39
Thanks Hak
Someone had to stop him from wining about getttin his ass kicked. anyone who thinks Woodsmen would beat Varangian Guard is nuts.
as you say they are barley more than peasants. I wish all these dicks would stop complaining about historical accuracy just cuz they cant play the game very well. So next time you get your ass kicked think about why instead of gettin on here and wasting space with stupid comments like that.
Leet Eriksson
12-05-2002, 03:41
the varangian guards were actually vikingsaside from that what do you except your woodsmen to do?run over them?the varangian guard are one of the most powerful infantry in the game.
Elite Woodsmen? Um...
Anders, you should give the game mechanics and statistics a good look-see. www.totalwarassembly.com is a good site for this. Then you'll be able to understand why your "elite Woodsmen" *snicker* melted like buttah in the battle before 1st line Byzantines, like you described. Pay SPECIAL to one stat in particular: MORALE. Also note if a troop has the "Disciplined" trait or not.
Once you grasp these key game concepts, the results above won't seem so unrealistic at all...trust me
Leet Eriksson
12-05-2002, 04:05
give yer woodsmen varangian guard attributes and yer set to go
Well guys, everyone is entitle to one whining http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif so please don't cut him down. If you realize someone had a misconception, help him get better.
Keep Poland, Denmark or Russia until you master the basics of the game is my advice. Don't jump on it the first day you got it at expert level. If you do, please don't complaint http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif.
Annie
deejayvee
12-05-2002, 04:13
Yeah, I once had my elite Peasants routed by some Gothic Knights What gives there????
The poor guy is probably never going to come back to the .org now.
Leet Eriksson
12-05-2002, 04:19
ok i think THIS is unrealistic:
1 gothic knight(no only one not a unit)routed my entire 5 valour peasantswhat the heck?i mean the peasants can defintly mess him up(you know do a 1-2 gang up on him where one grabs from behind the other punches him)yet he managed to kill 37 out of the 100 and routed them
RabidMonkey
12-05-2002, 04:38
Quote[/b] (faisal @ Dec. 04 2002,21:19)]ok i think THIS is unrealistic:
1 gothic knight(no only one not a unit)routed my entire 5 valour peasantswhat the heck?i mean the peasants can defintly mess him up(you know do a 1-2 gang up on him where one grabs from behind the other punches him)yet he managed to kill 37 out of the 100 and routed them
I agree with you faisal, when a unit of 100 men or more surrounds 1 knight, usually a general or king why wouldnt they all jump on him and pull him to the ground where he would be helpless. Im fairly sure the english longbows fought the french like this. By killing the horse or bringing the knight down off the horse they could find the weak spots in his armour and slice him up or save him for a ransom later.
only problem with this it would make cav weaker than it already is
deejayvee
12-05-2002, 04:42
That 1 gothic knight running riot is due to each soldier can only fight 2 other soldiers at a time. And 1 gothic knight can easily account for 2 peasants.
rasoforos
12-05-2002, 04:43
i dont want to be ironic as well but some things same to be said...
you made a force of 'elite' woodsmen , without bothering to see that woodsmen are basically peasant , then you back it up with ARCHERS and you think you have a hyperarmy because you havent read the manual , then you attack the byzantines , then you throw the woodsmen against Varangian guard , who are one of the best and proffesional units around there, and your little woodchoppers can become Conan the Barbarian or something. Then you throw them against Trebizont archers and again you complain because you havent read that T.archers are ok at meelee. AND OOOH...you say they shouldnt win cause they are not proffesional like you WOODSMEN
MOREOVER you read your history and you are sure that this is unrealistic for Byzantines to win 2-1 ratios well go back in time and ask Basilius II if it is unreal and you may get to have the fate the more than twice the size bulgarian army faced after basilius won Cause you obviously dont use your eyes much ( to read the manual or unit stats at least).
To top it all you call a very good game , and probably one of the most accurate ever 'Total Unrealism' and you get to have half of the forum laugh at you. BRAVO (clap clap clap)
Does anybody think this guy is flaming? He is a senior patron; if he was green he would have screamed and kicked and yelled in the beginners forum. And he would have been verbally slaughtered. Maybe he is trying to get a response?
solypsist
12-05-2002, 04:55
okay I think enough people have pointed out the difference between woodmen (elite or not) and some of the Byz's better troops. sheath your fangs, gentlemen.
Well, have to read about the battle at Stamford Bridge (link posted somewhere in the lobby of this ww.totalwar.org). There is 1 Viking, a single lone man, standing guard on the bridge. It took a while before the saxon regiment, (perhaps they are not peasants) can kill him by sneaking under the bridge and stab him with a spear from below. Ooch...
In real life, there are several instance of such.
In the Period of Three Kingdoms in China, there was a general who had his army routed in earlier battle. But he stood with his horse still and tall on a bridge. The enemy came and saw him there, and thought that it must be an ambush. They all quietly withdraw (not even trying to shoot him down).
In the same Period, the headquarters of another general was attacked in the middle of the night. A single guard was staving off two dozen of enemies troops (and these are elite troops who were chosen to raid the headquarters). The story was that the guard grabbed two men by the ankles and swung them around like weapons before spears brought him down. Remember, the average height of men in old time are about 5'5", not 5"10" at the time. But there are some exceptions of 6-7 feet men. These would be giants to the ordinary men. Well armoured and having good weapons, the taller men at 250 pounds would kill many starving peasants.
So, does your peasants have spears? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Annie
shand994
12-05-2002, 04:58
I would never consider calling an army like that "elite".
In my byz campaign at the moment my "elite" army consists of no less than 4 byz inf, 4 pranoi allagon(spelling?) 2/3 spearman unit, 2 varangian guard and between 2 and 4 untis of either treb archers/arbelasters. Oh and a few units of byz cav, i used this configuration as my "elite" armies for byz, all my byz amries have no less than 6 star generals and i think i have yet to lose a battle even when vastly outnumbered.
If i was playing poland i would never use steppe cav as an"elite" cav unit, what about some polish retainers backed up by a few heavy cav units, Knights would do.steppe cav suck.
DOes anyone else have any tips for this bozo for his "ELITE" Army
When I read it, I thought about sarcasm... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Nobody could be that ignorant about the game. The names says enough themselves, Woodsmen vs something called Guards... that doesn't sound all that fair for the Woodsmen. Guards in basically all forms have always been some sort of Elite unit.
So I have got a feeling we have been pulled in our common leg. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Hakonarson
12-05-2002, 05:12
Fights on bridges are different again, because ther are only a limited number of people that can participate - Rome itself was, of course, famously saved by Horatius on the bridge http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
There are a number of ways a single man could KO a vast number of peasants - for example if he kept moving how would they catch hold from behind?
And please don't say that the knight is stationary - to me the graphics are just a simplistic representtion of what's happening in combat.
A large warhorse with a guy in plate armour and a lance or sword on top would scare the be-jezzus out of me if I was within reach - so I reckon those peasants are more likely to "actually" be cowering and trying to stay out of his range than being superheros
MTW isn't at a level where it can provide such a high degree of realism of course - we must make do with factors instead.
rasoforos
12-05-2002, 05:16
of course if 50 peasants rush to a knight and throw him of his horse they could capture or kill him. However this would mean that the knight could chop 2-3 of them to pieces untill he falls , and i think it is difficult to persuade peasants that a 3% losses is insignificant...they wouldnt want to die anyhows. so i guess 1 vs 100 might be realistic sometimes.
Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Dec. 04 2002,22:05)]When I read it, I thought about sarcasm... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Nobody could be that ignorant about the game. The names says enough themselves, Woodsmen vs something called Guards... that doesn't sound all that fair for the Woodsmen. Guards in basically all forms have always been some sort of Elite unit.
So I have got a feeling we have been pulled in our common leg. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Whoops, I meant to quote this. I know nobody cares, but it makes me seem like less of an idiot http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif (see signature) Anyway I'm just glad that somebody else agrees with me in that no one could be THAT green
deejayvee
12-05-2002, 06:15
Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ Dec. 04 2002,22:20)]Anyway I'm just glad that somebody else agrees with me in that no one could be THAT green
Albert Einstein once said:
"There are 2 things in this life that are infinite: The Universe and human stupidity, but we're not sure about the former."
Foreign Devil
12-05-2002, 07:26
We don't know the guy's stupid..... yet. If he comes back and complains some more about this, then we'll know. But for now, I'll give him the benifit of the doubt. And don't quit playing, its a great game
deejayvee
12-05-2002, 07:44
Quote[/b] (Foreign_Devil @ Dec. 05 2002,00:26)]We don't know the guy's stupid..... yet.
I didn't mean that the guy was definitely stupid, but when Lehesu said no one could be THAT green I wanted to say that assuming someone couldn't be that stupid/green/whatever is a mistake.
Somewhere in this world there is someone THAT green.
Man
Come on the guy prolly either makin fun of us or really don't know what happened http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif I dunno for sure I assume it's the latter.
Anders keep playing the game but be sure to look up the stats at:
TWA (http://www.totalwarassembly.com)
Also when you train a unit, you can see a panel with a description. When I first started playing I found this to be good enough to explain what the unit is capable of.
The woodsmen are definetly no match for anything head on except the lowest class of troops. In Medieval terms woodsmen would never have made it into a standing army
Trab Archers are good in hand to hand (H2H) as well as ranged combat. Trab Archers are also a professional fighting force. .
The Steppe cav make excellent pursuers. Once the enemy is routing Steppe cav can come into pursuit and mop up the remains, even then you should expect to lose some of em. Steppe Cav is weak, even if you just read the description on the panel in game, you'll see these guys are light lancers, tribals who are not professionally drilled soldiers. The game attempts to reflect this.
The Varagian Guard were an elite who at times guarded the Byzantine Emperor himself. Clearly these units don't match up.
Here is some background on the Varagian Guard:
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif
Who were the Varangians ? (http://www.missouri.edu/~tm104/who_were_the_varangians.htm)
brief:
General History (http://web.missouri.edu/~tm104/other/general_history.htm)
Happy Reading & Good Games Be persistent
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
The 'elite woodsmen' bit got a chuckle out of me at least.
Have to give him credit for that if nothing else.
Ok. I am playing the Germans these days. So I am in war with all the existing factions, except the french which are eliminated. My king is on a campaign against the Mongols and the Hungarians while the Spanish prepare a good army at Toulouze. So I deside to gather the greatest army the world have ever seen. Provence is famous for its Elite Mighty Peasants. Immidietly, 16 years later, I have formed a powerful army stack of 16 elit peasants. The General leading them was the famous Antonio Eklasamentes. He may had only 1 star but he also had a 9 accument. Folclore and legents say that he goes to the battlefield with his desk and fancy chair, and that his bodyguards where 99 secreteries. At the 17th year the elit army crossed the river of toulouze and attacked the gathered Spanish forces of 300 CMAA, 250 ChKnights, 120 SpanJints, 400 ChivSergeants and 40 Knights of Sandiago.
My elit peasants destroyed the spaniards.
In fact the Spaniards where "wavering" and "devasted by opponents might" on sight.
the game works ok, i should say.
hehehe
entertaining, I almost spilled my food when I saw he charged steppe cav into biz inf, and got to face the mightly VG with useless semi peasants.
let's say it's good that this game is deep enough to have different levels of understanding : one 'intuitive' where you'd think blokes with axes can defeat other blokes with axes, and another one more historical where units have different backgrounds and values. I didn't know of VG 2 months ago, and I'm all the richer for it now.
I bet he'll play bizantium next time...
A.Saturnus
12-05-2002, 13:27
The most probable thing is that he was faking.
However, sometimes unrealistic things happen, like my CMAA get slaughtered by crossbowmen in melee or spearmen killing halberdiers without losses (ok, they had better valour but not that much), but it`s a computer game To simulate a fight with thousands of individual men and keep track of dozens of variables is difficult. It can`t be expected that it works perfect all the time. And most of the time I got beaten, I know why I got beaten. MTW has definitely the most realistic battles I`ve ever seen in a game.
Swoosh So
12-05-2002, 13:57
Why would a senior patron (senior patron) who had done alot for the community? not know what a vangarian guard is? this must be a wind up
I mean even i know the vangarian guard is a walking tank http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif And i know nothing of history http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif well almost
Swoooooshooooooooowl http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Rosacrux
12-05-2002, 16:15
Quote[/b] ]famous Antonio Eklasamentes
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
...you guys should understand some Greek... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
rasoforos
12-05-2002, 16:29
Antonio Eklasamentes....
i was about to quote that as well rosacrux http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
hillarious indeed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
yep , it is nice to know greek . not only for eclasamentes but because you can understand all this scientific words noone else can http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
A.Saturnus
12-05-2002, 16:44
Quote[/b] ]
yep , it is nice to know greek . not only for eclasamentes but because you can understand all this scientific words noone else can
Nope, it`s surely not enough to know the language. I`m studying psychology and I can tell you, most of you don`t know what "seeing" means. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
So ...so ...so ... it is a bait?
Annie
Teutonic Knight
12-05-2002, 22:10
one word: FLAME
"Yeah, I once had my elite Peasants routed by some Gothic Knights What gives there????
He He That's a good one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Seriously, though there is an issue about killing the last knight. It is a bit ridiculous when 40 feudal knights can't kill that last remaining royal knight (king or any army commander). Let's not pretend that this feature is historically accurate (although there are always "Horatio at the bridge" counterexamples they are rare throughout history, that's why they are famous). EA programmed this feature for a specific reason and historical accuracy doesn'have anything to do with it. The king or AI general is given a valour + morale bonus. Sometimes this results in his having a valour or morale of 9+, which makes it difficult or impossible for him to rout, even when his army is obviously defeated. The game has to code for this possibility, it can't predict the valour or morale of AI generals in advance. Making the last man equal to a kensai diminishes the "suicide Daimyo" problem, since he can often fight his way out of a crowd and get clean away. It's frustrating as hell, but you don't want factions being eliminated because their last king died in this ridiculous fashion. Notice also that you can't catch that single runnaway king with any kind of cavalry (routing troops get a speed advantage also).
Another thing that sneaks up on you is that valour bonuses don't imply a morale bonus After sooooo many Shogun games I thought I had defending down to an art for MTW. WRONG I got routed a few times when my Chiv. Sarg.'s standing on a hillside, backed by archers in the standard set-up (with hold position and hold formation on and having taking proper advantage of the rank bonus) were defeated by a smaller army composed largely of urban militia I couldn't believe my eyes Replayed the battle 4 times, same result each time. Then I checked the comparative morale levels Boy were my ears red. I'd neglected to build a church in the province that produced my chiv. sarg's - result, they had a morale of 2 and as soon as they began taking serious casualties they ran for the hills Morale in this game is key. Build those churches, monasteries and cathedrals/ mosques whenever possible Plus, playing on the expert level gives the AI a morale bonus (I think it's 2) in every battle. My chiv. sarg's also got routed by Nubian spearmen in a recent battle for this reason.
Rosacrux
12-06-2002, 08:57
Cugel
If you have a problem killing that last standing man, bring in some arty or any missile unit: they'l do short work of him in no time.
Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ Dec. 06 2002,01:57)]If you have a problem killing that last standing man, bring in some arty or any missile unit: they'l do short work of him in no time.
Or even sooner. The enemy general often mistakes a boulder the size of a small car for a football and elbows his way through his own troops shouting "Mine" before he leaps up to try and head it away ..
Knight_Yellow
12-06-2002, 11:58
Ok heres a idea of mine or personal veiw if u like...
This game cannot be complained about for lotsa reasons, did the game prommise things that havent been delivered or do u realise that in fixing all the wee problems the designers would take so long that the cost would be massive so they release a reasonable version of the game then they patch it.and if the game was completely historicaly accurate then shouldnt we all be traumatised at the consequences of war?
i doubt very much that this is a real post weve all been fooled.i mean its pretty hard to miss the unit info when it gets chucked at u in 3 diff formats the unit description when buying it, in the unit stats that get regulary posted and in the game when u r commanding ur army.
one last point if it was historicaly accurate then the game would be impossible to complete none of the empires back then conquered all europe. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
el_slapper
12-06-2002, 12:15
1 vs several is always possible. 2 conditions : big superiority & good position. If a guy can be stabbed in the back, as good as he is, bue bye.
in 1944, a lone french resistant did repel a full company of german soldiers. He was a former captain, very well trained, and had a machine gun with hundreds of bullets. BUT he would have been quickly slaughtered if he wasn't holding a tricky pass in the Alps, 2500m of altitude.....
I believe same thing does apply in HtH warfare. A completely surrounded guy can't survive very long; 3 attackers surround the hero in a triangle formation. There is at least one who can stab the back.....
No, there must be 6. If less then the defender can easily move himself into another position which will provide that none will be at his back. If he is immobile then 3 will do it, yes. But as someone has already said, in MTW a soldier can engage or be engaged with 2 opponents max.
It's not really that unrealistic for a lone uberknight to run amok killing dozens of peasants. Keep in mind that peasants are just that. They're people you pulled off their farms, told to grab the best weapon they had lying around, and pressed into service via threats. They have no training, no discipline, no faith in you as a commander. They are only there at all because you will kill them (And probably their families as well) if they don't march to war for you.
Now take a unit of a hundred or two of these guys, and see what happens when a knight in platemail with a high quality sword charges them. They will melt like butter in the sun, guaranteed. None of these guys is in any kind of hurry to die for you. In fact, they'd really rather not be here at all, and they're looking for any excuse they can come up with to see as little action as possible. They're not likely to hold any kind of formation once a professional fighter hits them, and they're probably not intelligent enough or well trained enough to figure out how to encircle a man who is after all on a horse that can easily keep him out of their reach while he picks them off one by one. After he kills 10 or 20 of their number, a unit of these guys is just going to decide they'll take their chances with you, thank you very much, and rout.
Now remember that Spearmen are just peasants who you actually bothered to hand spears and shields to, and urban militia are just peasants you handed poleaxes to and possibly took a day out of your busy schedule of being a pampered sissy to give some perfunctory training.
-Musashi
Hey you guys. I asked a Greek friend what Ekalsamanetes means and she did'nt know. I for one don't know much Greek.
What does it mean ??
I dont know either, but you have to make a distinction between modern day greek and ancient greek; not the same thing.
I've done 4 years of ancient greek in school, but cant say I can place that word. Then again there were so many different dialects etc throughout the centuries that it's not too surprising (and it's been a while since I was in school too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ).
rasoforos
12-06-2002, 22:42
nope it doesnt have to do with ancient greek. its quite modern i think....but it loses on the translation : eklasamentes = eklasa mentes ( i farted mints) ( when you say to someone that he farts mints it means that we is a sissy , a coward) ....implemented as a sername of the generals it makes a nice contrast...that loses on the translation.
Rosacrux
12-07-2002, 03:40
If you would like to actually translate the meaning and not the words, you could talk about the great general "Antonio IWetmypants" or something like that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ROFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Thanks for the explanation guys LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Cousin Zoidfarb
12-08-2002, 19:45
Byzantines tend to get commanders with a heck of a lot of stars. Anderschm if you don't like a unit's stats just mod.
AndersSchm
12-09-2002, 02:11
Well I was reading loads of posts like mine and it amused me so I thought I would do a satire of it.
I admit I was in pieces reading the responses and some of you enjoyed it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif If I offended anyone I apologise but coming from .com it was my only opportunity to make such a post without being known.
Hope I haven't inspired an inquisition of my fellow .com evacuees...
Vlad The Impaler
12-09-2002, 03:46
i read tonite some .com thread about attacking an bridge or smthin;)
when i read that it was an hard level game i start to LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
cart6566
12-09-2002, 16:12
ROFL Well done Anders
Ah, you trick Annie to writing a long and polite article. If I ever knew, I would turn up the flame much higher.
Annie http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
Ahhh... Anders... I thought I had seen you over there a few times. Good to know I was right in my assumptions of a joke.
This 'revelation' actually makes rereading the thread even funnier, hehehe
well done
AndersSchm
12-15-2002, 02:17
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Teutonic Knight
12-15-2002, 02:23
ROFLMAO http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
MizuKokami
12-15-2002, 21:19
gee...
what can one say...except it's all so silly.
you know all those spies you can build?...why don't you all realize what they were really for in history? they weren't to tople other governments, they were to keep the populace in line. they were to convince the people that one lone knight could kill hundreds of peasants and other soldiers in battle. afterall, you can't have your peasants believeing they would have a chance to defeat the nobles in battle. if they could believe that, there would be no way to keep collecting those very high taxes. in actuality, looking at history books and reading where they talk about the exploits of their top military units in battle, i've got to laugh about all the bs that is written. does no one realize that the victor "allways" writes the history books? in reality, that one lone knight that supposedly killed hundreds of soldiers and won the day in battle, was really the only man in the back that managed to run away from the battle. so in order to not let the peasants know their leige lord was a coward (not implying that one man running from 100 men is an act of cowardice), the propoganda machine was clicked on, and the rumors were started. afterall, you had to make the population believe that the nobles were sanctioned by God, that he (meaning God), walked with the nobles, and fought their battles. have to keep the population believeing in their pious(?) king. pious my behind. they were men like all men, prone to fear and overwhelming numbers like anyone else. they were, when properly utilzed, excellent killing machines. but i seriously doubt they could kill 100 peasants before one of them got the bright idea to kill the man's horse and drag him down to their level.
you all can keep thinking it's ok to crack jokes about people who don't think there is a lot of realism in this game, or mock their opinions all you want. nothing changes. ask yourselves who the real fools are. the men who believe in propoganda, or the men who don't?
it's not the realism i like about the game though. the battles are epic, and movie like. but they are hardly realistic. go ahead, lets build a time machine. lets go back in time. lets send 500 screaming peasants with axes at 60 vang. guards and see who runs first. let's surround 20 men on horses with 100 angry peasants and see how long that king survives. i do like the idea that my king can survive a long time on the back of a horse that's got to be exhausted and somewhat spooked by all the noise of battle, as i spend much time building up my king, and would hate to lose him in a battle. but i don't believe this game has much realism, if any at all.
so please, can we stop attacking people who speak out about the lack of realism, cause they only speak the truth. and stop calling them whiners, cause i'ld rather be a whiner then a boob. the only reason fools can rule is because fools follow them.
Maybe you should take a time machine back and see how things really were. Unless properly armed with armor piercing weapons and given at least a rudimentary training with them it would take a dozen or more peasants to kill an armored knight on foot- let alone on horse back. You do realize that most swords, spears, pitch forks, ect. had no hope of penetrating plate armor. Sure, if all of them piled on the knight at once they could probably topple him and find a weak spot to kill him through- but lets be "realistic" for a second. Peasants are untrained rabble- and even though they may be sick of their rulers enough to fight them, they still dont want to throw their lives away. So who do you think would want to be the first peasant to bum rush a knight and get his head bashed in? I dont think any of them would be excited about this prospect. Most likely they would try to surround and attack from a distance- which, due to the knight's armor, just wouldnt work. So as they see a few of their comrades getting hacked to bloody bits they start to get skittish... all it takes is a few cowards to flee and then they all would run. After all, would you want to find yourself the last one facing this enemy after all your comrades had left?
Now, if you put this armored nightmare on a horse allowing him to outmanuever and ride down the aforementioned rabble.... well you get the idea. Now instead of 1 knight, lets take 20- I dont think there would be much trouble taking out 100 panicky, poorly trained/equipped peasants.
Don't get me wrong- I don't think knights were invincible, but to say they could be slaughtered by bands of peasant rabble..... you've got to be kidding. It takes troops that are equipped for and trained to attack armoured warriors and even still they usually need to outumber them.
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