Help, I'm a Turk....

[Bob the Insane]

I am trying my second hard/early Turkish campaign and it is going as well as the first (ie. very badly...)

I have 2 questions:

1. Any general advise for playing as the Turks?

2. Do the Egyptians always stab you in the back??

Additionally it is a GA game...

[TheViking]

rely on the speed of the units.

when you turn your eyes from any ally they will backstab thats the only thing you can trust on

[HopAlongBunny]

I don't know how much use advice from me would be. Rum and Armenia over-run by hordes of Frenchman 4 times; both burnt to the ground by me once; occupied by the Horde after their spawn in Armenia.

The only useful thing I did was taking Egypt. That is where burning Rum and Armenia came in; burnt Edessa as well. That gave me the money to build a port, dockyard and ships in Egypt. The trade pipeline was the only thing that saved me from a very early exit.

Read the thread "Turkey" found under the Table of Contents; i delayed following the advice given there and it cost http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Leet Eriksson]

the egyptians short for B.Bs(Backstabbing Bastards)always do that they don't give a damn if your a muslim or their slave they will attack sooner or later so wipe them out early and fastyou must wipe them out before 1001,and make sure you make jihads and big armies.after securing egypt ally with the almos(they are pretty good allies and will help you if spain crusaded to any of your provinces(provided they use the north african route)after that you can take over the byz until you reach constantinople(don't conquer yet cuz you'll need some pretty advanced artillery to take em on)so concetrate on the northern parts after taking over georgia until you subdue the ruskies(byz will be already at war from all sides,so ally with them and help them if you ever got the chance to do so)after that take over hungary and poland(if you really have some love for the polish like i do you can leave them to their peace becuase they are pretty defensive and not very agressive)and then turn on the byz and take over the balkan provinces,after they are left with constantinople only use a massive army and any seige equipment you have and take over it(although seiging their armies without assualting the citadel will downgrade it and i would advise against it anyways)now you have and industrectable turkish empireonce you have done everything i told you turn on your almohads freinds and KILL EM ALL,ALL OF EMthey get pretty pissed in the high period and will become B.Bs tooi just wish there was a muslim pope too to make peace between these B.Bs(turk could be B.Bs if your playing byz or egyptians).europe is all open for you after that,make sure you flank em alot cuz their units are pretty tough.

[HopAlongBunny]

May as well add a bit to that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

You want v2 Armenian Heavy Cavalry; building a Master horse thingy in Armenia is a good plan...but until you deal with the Byz and Egyptians don't invest too heavily.

Tripoli and Antioch are awesome cash producers and Tripoli gives you a bonus on Turcoman horse; you'll want that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Until the crusades die down or you have more money than you know what to do with, don't try to hold Tripoli or Antioch. Frequent crusades are just a money sink; better to let the crusaders take the provinces then crush them if you have the troops.

Futuwwa and Ghazi are great Fast and reliable, flank with them and they will do serious damage. Bonus AP with Ghazi is very nice as well; and Fut...well they're good archers too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

By Late you want Janissaries coming from somewhere...bend your plans toward that and have fun Tough faction to play, but with a lot of cool stuff http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Leet Eriksson]

one last thing before i take a break and have some life(yes i hit 260 postsa little bit more and i'm gonna have an ugly mug for a userpic&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif:

WATCH OUT FOR THE MONGOLSmake sure you have a HUGE empire by the time they strike,and make sure you have units specialised in countering their units.

now time to rest my hands and get a life http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[All_the_Sultan's_horses]

Hi the Turks are my favourite faction. strategically, fight byzantium first. they're the first threat and they're right in yr face. ally ASAP with the catholic euros so tt any crusades they launch will pass thru yr territory without attacking. for u, crusades are a GOOD THING cos early on the catholics only launch crusades against egypt. hopefully the crusades'll keep egypt busy. once u take constantinople, the byzantines should be broken. concentrate on egypt next. fortunately, egypt is an easier opponent, u won't face Kataphraktoi

actually, i'd recommend playing High or Late period instead. Byzantium is very strong in the Early.

Tactically, use Ottoman Infantry, Saracen Infantry, Turcoman Horse and Armenian Heavy Cav. Ottoman infantry can really put down a hail of fire, since they're hybrid units, one does not need to take infantry escorts for them, hence one can take more of them, hence more missile fire. With their axes they can also give knights a shock. Armenian Heavy Cav are great. cheaper to get(need only Horse Breeder) and better than Ghulam Cav, they charge as strongly as chivalric knights, but use them only for flank charges against spearmen, and always support them. Turcoman Horse have one and only one purpose, running down routers. Keep some Saracens around to tackle those Kataphraktoi, but there should be more ottomans in yr army.

This combination of troops should serve u until quite late in the game, when u can get Khwarazmian Cav and Janissaries. by then, u're quite guaranteed to win the GA game as long as u've not screwed up, cos the Turks get 24 pts or so just for controlling Constantinople by 1453. piece of cake...

[Pachinko]

I like the Turks all that Jans stuff is kewl..But if you win all little bit. Then your all right. Then also its easy. It is kinda easy then..boring.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif steamroller the end.

P.

[Bob the Insane]

Thanks for the advise all..

I concentrated on the Egyptians first and it payed off as the Byz largely ignored me and concentrated on taking the Russian Steppes..

I forced the Egyptians back to Egypt in a series of battles using large Mercenary armies. Then in a joint attack between the Almohads and us, we took Egypt itself.

I then concentrated on building trade and infastructure (and replacing mercenary troops with my own, to save costs) and to build up a fleet for trade.

Then the GA's changed requiring me to take a Byz land (I had no idea at that point that they had taken most of the Russian steppes). As I was building my forces the Byz started attacking my fleets giving me the perfect excuse for taking their lands. I drove forward to Constantanople and also took Georgia. I raised another mercenary army (lead by a high command Heir) to take Crete and Rhodes and left the Byz Emperor traped by a large fleet of mine on Cyprus.

This is the extent of my Empire now, with only three front line Provinces (Constantanople, Georgia and Egypt) which are heavily defended.

Of interest is a tactic used by the AI of the Byz allowing Catholic Crusades to cross the Black Sea into my lesser defender rear areas... Dealt with that by destroying all the Byz shipping..

The GH have just turned up and are making life interesting for the Byz http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif.... I have managed an alliance with them at present...

[HopAlongBunny]

Woooot

Sounds like a great empire being borne http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Ckrisz]

Definitely the best tactic for the Turks is to wipe out the Egyptians. Someone else posted the tactic of loading up and cutting off the Egyptian Sultan in the first few turns --- he's in Tripoli or Antioch, I forget which, and doesn't move --- cut him off and it's an easy captured Sultan, which reduces Egypt to rebels or gives a gigantic ransom.

[Satyr]

The other thing to watch for when playing turks is to see if spain or almo are winning that war. If they are dead-locked and keeping each other with small troop levels, then I will roll over both of them. If I see the spanish starting to win, I will roll over the almo so that spain can't move into n. africa and take those nice gold mines. If you do this, sooner or later the spanish will attack (probably with a crusade too) so be ready for it when it comes.

I am in the middle of a early, hard turkish campaign and own the iberian penninsula and the east thru kazar and wallachia and am waiting for the mongol horde to arrive in 20 years. I actually have enough troops to face crusades so that they rarely even attack. They just sit in the next province and slowly fade away in fear of my massive armies.

Also, use Turkoman companies to harrass infantry and let them chase them all over the map so you have less troops to face. They are almost as good as spanish jinettes so use them well.

Have fun.

[Lord Romulous]

im the same as bob.

have three heavily defended border provences.
constantinople, egypt and one on the black sea.)(cant remember the name)

i have the largest army, navy and am the richest and get most content populace pretty often to.

the ai will not attack me. (i have enemies but they dont attack or want peace) i have crusades sitting outside constantinople provence to scared to come and mix it with my bad boys. the two crusades have been there for 40 years. lol. they have 100 troops each now down from like 2000 when they arrived at my doorstep.

the problem is now i dont know what to do. i dont want to invade cause it will mess up my trade and give me more border provences (which i dont want ), and just sitting around watching the dollars come in is a bit boring.

i tried smash and retreat attacks but then the provence i just razed to the ground gets a rebellion bigger than the army i defeated to win the provence anyway. so im actually giving the ai free troops. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

what to do when you are going to well ??
(i play on hard btw amd in GA mode.

[Ckrisz]

What a terrible problem http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Well, just go ahead and attack someone who isn't a major trading partner; the Hungarians or Poles, someone who doesn't have any ports. I don't play GA, so I have no idea what the Turkish GA would be --- work towards those, I suppose.

[Furtrapper]

With all respect, the problem with the Turks in the GA game is when you have to go beyond Constantinople and conquer some of the Balkans. I did fine (playing from Early, onwards) when I could stack units in Constantinople and have decent trade income. I owned all of North Africa and my 'bung' province to the north was Khazar (good trade).

When you have to go into Serbia, Greece and Hungary is where it all starts to fall apart. The Catholic units are so much stronger and more versatile that even with 5 and 6 star generals, I was finding the going very tough. Saracen Infantry were my backbone, with handgunners when I could get them (and demi-cannon); Ottoman Siphahi (built in Edessa I think) or Steppe Cavalry to chase routers as well as plenty of Ottoman infantry or Turcoman foot and the odd bunch of Futuwwas. Never found Ghazi particularly good, though they are cheap. Forgot Armenian so-called 'heavy' cavalry in favour of Khwarazmian (great shock troops) when I could. Ghulam are an expensive waste of money, imho.

In my desert provinces I kept 'southern' armies with camels and Turcoman foot. Tip: let the Almohads keep Cyrenacia (terrible income) so they don't reappear...

I have to say that I found the Turks great to defend with - loads of archers, cannon and Saracen infantry do the job. Stick em on a hill and you're fine. Attacking, I usually let the computer auto it, as manual attacks, unless the odds are in your favour, are difficult to co-ordinate with Turks and liable to end in disaster or at least major attrition.

Given how much success the Turks often have as AI, I was rather disappointed with them when I played them and it made me much bolder when I was playing against them as they can be pretty rubbish. On the other hand, the Egyptians are much worse; how the AI can get them to Pomerania and Venice so easily when I'm playing Spain or France or England, I have no idea, as every time I've played against them I've flattened them even if the odds are against me

[Musashi]

Yeah, I disagree with the advice to attack Byz first... I find that you should attack Egypt first because Byz will generally ignore you (Even ally with you) if you don't attack them, but Egypt is a bunch of punks who will attack you sooner or later. Byz and the Almohads are far more trustworthy allies, so just eliminate the problem faction. This also gets you Antioch and Tripoli (And hopefully Egypt) right off the bat. It's generally easy enough to steamroll the Egyptians in the beginning of the game through sheer superior battlefield command, so do it.

Once you finish that (And you should be able to do it within 10-20 turns) you'll have two or three really good trade provinces, and your southern border will be a single choke point. Then I'd just sit back and build up to the best troops you can make until the Golden Horde shows up. Let them pimp-smack the Byz for a while and then rear end them, taking Constantinople, Khazar, and everything south of those. Now you only have two choke points to defend in the north, and you own two more valuable trade provinces (And your ruler will have the influence that comes with owning Constantinople).

Take all of North Africa up to Morrocco as the opportunity arises. When you own Everything from Morrocco to Constantiople to Khazar you have The Perfect Empire™. Profitable, powerful, and easily defended.

-Musashi

[Satyr]

Jeez Musashi, I have to totally disagree. The horde have just arrived in my current game and I already own over 50% of the world. I have 12 full stacks waiting for the horde and after that I go finish off the last two byz provinces, take out the russians and then kill the germans. I will probably take france and england from the other direction as I bribed the original scottish troops and caused a rebellion that was two stack of good troops and then bought them too. So it will be easy to swoop in from both directions because I own the iberian penninsula too. Waiting so long to do anything is just NOT in my blood.

[Musashi]

I'm a patient man, and I never attack anyone without cause. Except the Egyptians, cause they're evil.

-Musashi