The Inquisition [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 2

seireikhaan

11-13-2015, 15:06

Following another death, the day was a subdued one as in the initial fervor of the inquisition faded and the realization that that people were actually dying set in. Not all, however, had quite adopted that philosophy. One man in particular made an off-hand comment which only a few heard. "This is an outrage!" One nearby said.

"How dare he? So insensitive!" Another proclaimed.

"Why, I'm completely offended!" The last said.

"Yes, he is clearly the villain, to offend us so! Off with his head!" The mob proclaimed. The man was presented to Kavehir, bound and on his knees. Kavehir looked down upon the man with a bemused expression.

"So, this is the one? You're sure?"

"Yes, yes! He is far too offensive to not be guilty!"

The Emperor looked down upon the man, who glared balefully back at him. "So what is your name, again?" Kavehir asked.

"I am completely inoffensive, my lord. I don't know what these fools-" He was cut off when Kavehir brought his sword upon his skull and split in two.

"I asked your name. Not a defense. Tsk, tsk...."

Tally:

ACIN 3 (Sooh, Myddraal, Monty)
Ituralde 2 (GoldenKnight, Pizza)
Myrddraal 1 (Landlubber)
Dcmort 2 (Ituralde, Autolycus)
Visorslash 1 (Nightbringer)
El Barto 1 (Visorslash)
Autolycus 1 (Kage)
GoldenKnight 1 (GH)
GH 1 (Zack)

Alive:

Askthepizzaguy
Autolycus
DCmort
Edse
El Barto
GeneralHankerchief
Golden1Knight
Ituralde
Johnhughtom
Kagemusha
Landlubber
Montmorency
Myddraal
Nightbringer
Sooh
Visorslash
Zack

Lynched:

Abstain (D1)
Andres (D2)ACIN (D3

Killed:

Csargo (D1)
Bsmith (N2)
Ironside (N3)

Attacked:

Ironside (N1)
Golden1Knight (N2)
Montmorency (N3)

You may begin sending night orders.

a completely inoffensive name

11-14-2015, 02:01

I am dead.

Csargo

11-14-2015, 04:15

I am dead.

Come and join the club.

Nightbringer

11-14-2015, 06:45

Come and join the club.

But does he get to join your exclusive ghost sub-club?

Csargo

11-14-2015, 16:35

But does he get to join your exclusive ghost sub-club?

Only if he pays the membership fee.

Montmorency

11-14-2015, 18:48

Do you accept gift cards?

seireikhaan

11-15-2015, 03:19

My apologies, night phase will have to be extended. I'll have it posted in the morn, but since this is on me, if you want to send orders for the next 12 hours, I'll count them.

Csargo

11-15-2015, 05:27

Do you accept gift cards?

Yes, as well as anything that has value.

Zack

11-15-2015, 05:53

Yes, as well as anything that has value.
so you accept |x| where x is a non-zero integer?

Csargo

11-15-2015, 05:58

so you accept |x| where x is a non-zero integer?

Pretty much yeah.

Askthepizzaguy

11-15-2015, 08:30

Is cake considered an integer?

seireikhaan

11-15-2015, 16:35

For tonight, Kagemusha was acquainting himself with the royal gymnasium. It was a wondrous building, just off the east wing, with high, vaulted ceilings and an open roof which collected the moonlight, which reflected off the pool below. At the moment, Kagemusha was currently upside down, performing reverse, standing push ups.

"179, 180, 181..." The burn felt good after a long day of dull argumentation. "182...." With a grunt, Kagemusha heaved himself up for a last, 183rd repetition, before allowing himself to fall to the ground on his back. "Ah... a new record. Excellent, excellent..."

His reflection on his performance was broken by applause. Kagemusha sat himself up and saw two figures in the doorway from the east wing.

"Well done, that was quite a show," the hooded figure on the left commended. "Don't you think?" It asked the character to his right, a man with flowing, white hair and a white robe that seemed to glitter in the darkness.

"Of course. How can one soar without taking the leap?"

"Well said, I couldn't agree more," the first one continued.

"Well, not to brag or anything, but that was a personal best. Always good to push one's self to new limits, eh?" Kagemusha asked in a boisterous voice.

"Yes, I think we tend to agree," the hooded man responded. "But, sometimes," he continued, with a glance at his companion. "It is necessary to be pushed by others." He withdrew a straight sword from his hip, and his companion unsheathed a long, curved sword that glittered in the darkness. "So please, allow us to see how far you can go!"

The two broke from the doorway at a breakneck pace at Kagemusha, who scrambled to his feet. Each one lunged at him from each side with their weapons.

"Hup!" With a grunt, Kagemusha dove forward, flattening his body out as he passed by both weapons narrowly, tucking himself into a roll and righting himself as he turned around to face his assailants. A scuffling could be heard from behind him, and Kagemusha allowed himself a moment to glance behind himself. Two more individuals, each armed with short swords, flooded into the gymnasium.

"Fear not, we shall aid you!" Cried the one one left as they ducked in front of Kagemusha.

"Ah, the sinful gather themselves to us, it seems," the hooded man proclaimed. "All the easier for divine wrath to sweep you up as the tides." He and his companion advanced on the two guardians. The hooded man brought his sword upon his opponent, who attempted to deflect the blow with their own blade, but the force of his strike rattled it from their hands. The white-haired man weaved himself up to the other, flashing its elongated blade in a flurry. The second guardian panicked at the sight and attempted a brutish overhand strike, but their attacker shot its offhand upwards and made a quick jab at the guardian's elbow. The guardian cried in agony as a wave of pain shot through the joint and dropped their blade.

"Tsk, tsk, we've not even had to look down from the nest, nevermind taking the leap," the white-haired man taunted.

"Flee! This is my fight," Kagemusha whispered to them. "Death in battle is glorious, suicide is not!"

The two glanced at each other before nodding and taking off at a sprint. When the opened the doors up, another three individuals rammed their way past them.

"Haha! Excellent! Yes, bring more!" The hooded man proclaimed. "Crash upon us like the tide upon the cliffs, and be broken!"

They took up their place in front of Kagemusha, each armed with a blade of their own, held in two hands. The white haired man grinned as he gazed upon the figure in the middle. "How very... amusing," he noted. He looked to his compatriot and raised an eyebrow, asking an unspoken question. He merely nodded in response.

The two made their move in a flash. The white haired man flew with blinding speed at the guardian in the middle, flashing his glimmering sword as he raised it for a strike. The guardian made a clumsy movement to parry the strike, only to receive a crushing kick to its midsection, sending it flying past Kagemusha, who stared in wonder that anyone could deliver such a powerful blow. The guardian on the right attempted a strike of their own on the white-haired man, who hopped backwards off one foot to evade the attack.

"Enough!" Kagemusha stood now, visibly angered. "No more shall be hurt defending me. Your quarrel is with me. So, face me!"

"You have grown your spine again?" The white-haired man asked. "You, simpleton," it gestured to the guardian on the right. "Give him your blade. Let him face his examination in proper." They gave Kagemusha a confused look, but he gave them a stern nod. With hesitation, they gave him their longsword.

"Criminal scum," Kagemusha began, moonlight glinting off of his forehead in from the open roof. "You face your judgment now. In the name and authority of Emperor Kavehir, I, Kagemusha, will purge you from this world." Without hesitation, he opened the battle with an aggressive movement towards the white-haired man. He struck at him with a short strike, pulling back when it was evaded. He attempted a second strike, but the white-haired man seemed to simply flow backwards, having little trouble evading. He feinted a third strike, before weaving back to the hooded man, catching him by surprise and tearing a slice through his hood as the attack was narrowly avoided at the last moment. A short, wavy mop of black hair spilled out from the ruined hood. He snarled and counter-attacked, sending Kagemusha backwards to evade the attack. Unfortunately for Kagemusha, there was no retreat from his second foe, and a slice from a shimmering, curved blade caught him in neck. Kagemusha collapsed to his knees, grasping his neck and gasping for air.

"Pity," the white-haired man spoke, his eyes suddenly gentle. "You were on the wrong side of this conflict. A shame your loyalty was wasted." He looked to the room, noting the absence of the protectors of earlier. "It is unfortunate for you that more were not made of such stern stuff. Find peace, noble warrior."

It was morning, and Emperor Kavehir, for once, was subdued as he gathered the nobles for the inquisition to be commenced once more. "We are down another noble soul, it seems," he proclaimed to those gathered. "We have lost much. Yet, we must remember, that justice demands sacrifice. My father will be avenged. Those slain will be avenged. We shall rid the realm of this injustice, and then, and only then, can we begin to remake this world in the light of peace. Until that time is come, however, we must march on. So come, let us continue."

Alive:

Askthepizzaguy
Autolycus
DCmort
Edse
El Barto
GeneralHankerchief
Golden1Knight
Ituralde
Johnhughtom
Landlubber
Montmorency
Myddraal
Nightbringer
Sooh
Visorslash
Zack

Lynched:

Abstain (D1)
Andres (D2)
ACIN (D3)

Killed:

Csargo (D1)
Bsmith (N2)
Ironside (N3)
Kagemusha(N4)

Attacked:

Ironside (N1)
Golden1Knight (N2)
Montmorency (N3)

GeneralHankerchief

11-15-2015, 16:41

What.

GeneralHankerchief

11-15-2015, 16:52

Two attackers, working together, on Kage, who had two sets of protections.

First set failed because of numbers.

Second set failed for reasons unclear.

Full disclosure: I was part of one of the protections. Whether I was part of the two or the three is unknown, but the way my feedback PM was worded (can't quote directly as per rules), it's extremely likely that someone else in my group is a liar and/or imposter.

All three of us CC'd orders. If we were part of the two, that means someone either bailed, whether voluntarily or forcibly. I'm kind of hoping forcibly, as a voluntary bail on a target who the scum (presumably) knew was going to get hit is almost too easy. If we were part of the three, then my best guess is that one of us is a third-party role who can't work together with my group and was unaware of this until now.

My prediction is that I was part of the group of three and was working with somebody who wasn't who they said they were.

Vote: Sooh

Kagemusha

11-15-2015, 17:09

The town is infested with mafia. I was in contact with rather limited set of people, but who knows whom they talked with. Thanks for the game everyone!

Sooh

11-15-2015, 17:40

I know I was where I was supposed to be last night GH, just like I have been previous nights.

I thought 3 was supposed to be enough to protect someone, but here there were a group of three and a group of two, and yet two scum seemed to just be able to nullify it?

GeneralHankerchief

11-15-2015, 17:49

I thought 3 was supposed to be enough to protect someone

It most certainly should.

Why do you think the protection failed?

Sooh

11-15-2015, 18:00

I don't know.

Perhaps if two scums attack it's not enough?

I don't know what we should do then though.

edse

11-15-2015, 18:02

Were both protection groups Shanahk? I said earlier that you were too many and that you had been infiltrated.

Vote: Sooh

Myrddraal

11-15-2015, 18:05

If it is the case that two Mafia can overcome a protection group, then that makes it seem very likely that that Mafia knew that Kage had the power role. Why bother with a double attack if targeting townies at random. To the best of my knowledge, very few people knew of his role for sure (3 that I know of, including me).

It's also very interesting that one of the protection groups clearly failed due to lack of numbers. GH has confirmed that his group all cc'd orders. Can the other group confirm the same (in public or private?)

Sooh

11-15-2015, 18:12

Were both protection groups Shanahk? I said earlier that you were too many and that you had been infiltrated.

Vote: Sooh
You buy what GH says just like that at face value?

Seems opportunistic.

edse

11-15-2015, 18:41

Well, I think the failed three person group is our best lead, and GH shot first.

GeneralHankerchief

11-15-2015, 18:41

Full disclosure: I was the one who recommended that my group protect Kage. However, I had no idea of his role, I simply believed him to be innocent via his posting behavior.

GeneralHankerchief

11-15-2015, 18:43

Since this is the first round I've really been able to contribute to in over a week (due to RL stuff), can someone who's followed it closer than me clear up the following things:

1) If there has ever been a situation with two teamed-up attackers before
2) If single attackers bearing similarities to this description have fared well

Myrddraal

11-15-2015, 18:47

1) No
2) Actually, I'm not sure we've had people with this description attack before. As of last round, all attackers seemed to fit into a pattern of representing one of the religions (one of them smelt 'musty' (Underworld), the other 'briny' (Sea) and the third seemed to float and wore a golden mask (Sky).

The 'man with flowing, white hair and a white robe that seemed to glitter in the darkness. ' is certainly new, and his accomplice has 'A short, wavy mop of black hair' under his hood.

GeneralHankerchief

11-15-2015, 18:50

Hmm, then IMO the possibility of the three protectors simply being overwhelmed by greater numbers just went up. Still think Sooh's a rat though, I didn't like her initial reaction.

Myrddraal

11-15-2015, 18:53

Whether or not the attack was a mafia one, it's interesting that someone didn't turn up. We need an explanation for that. It would be good to hear from the other protection group in some form.

Sooh

11-15-2015, 18:58

Hmm, then IMO the possibility of the three protectors simply being overwhelmed by greater numbers just went up. Still think Sooh's a rat though, I didn't like her initial reaction.

There's really not much I can do about you not liking my reaction. Can you specify in what way you think my reaction was bad? I'm trying to be open and easy to read.

edse

11-15-2015, 20:20

Full disclosure: I was the one who recommended that my group protect Kage. However, I had no idea of his role, I simply believed him to be innocent via his posting behavior.

Have your group (you, Sooh and a third person?) performed a successful group protection before?

El Barto

11-15-2015, 21:39

:crazy: What's been going on? Why can't you all stay quietly in bed instead of killing each other?

GeneralHankerchief

11-15-2015, 22:00

There's really not much I can do about you not liking my reaction. Can you specify in what way you think my reaction was bad? I'm trying to be open and easy to read.

When, in comparison to the posts in this thread, did you read your feedback PM?

Have your group (you, Sooh and a third person?) performed a successful group protection before?

The third person and I were part of an inconclusive protection on Night... 2, I think. Maybe N1, definitely not N3. This is my first time working with Sooh.

Ituralde

11-15-2015, 22:36

So Kagemusha was the bald bearded guy? Only power role I know of.

I worked with Sooh on night 2 in the succesful attack on Golden1Knight, who was simulatenously protected.

The other members of that night action were Ironside, who was killed and your third man from last night, GH. So I fear that doesn't help in determining who of the two is lying. Or if in fact you are lying.

I was not protecting Kagemusha last night, so don't know who made that second attempt, that should have been successful.

GeneralHankerchief

11-15-2015, 22:42

Right now I have two theories. The first one is that everyone was where they were supposed to be, but simply got overwhelmed by the fact that it was a two-person team taking on Kage as opposed to the customary one. In this case, the most likely suspect, if anyone, would be whoever dropped out of the two-man protection group. This means either mine and Sooh's third, or somebody from the mysterious other group.

The second one is that somebody in the group of three showed up for the protection, but due to their alignment could not work with regular townies/followers of the same religion - and also were not aware of this fact. In essence, they thought they had a good alibi but were caught.

-edit- And while the first theory appears to be more plausible on the surface, keep in mind that this is a khaan game and town doesn't have a particularly good record at figuring his games out. At all.

Montmorency

11-15-2015, 22:44

Ituralde, what do you think of the lurkers around here, such as JHT and DCMort?

Askthepizzaguy

11-15-2015, 22:54

Oh, by the way, my group failed because dcmort didn't send the order. He also happened to be the one who killed Kagemusha, according to my source.

So we should quit with the Sooh bashing and lynch a scum. Capice, GH?

Vote: Dcmort93.

Askthepizzaguy

11-15-2015, 23:01

IMO Ituralde can be tomorrow's lynch.

edse

11-15-2015, 23:05

Isn't dcmort known for being borderline inactive?

Unvote: Vote: dcmort93

Askthepizzaguy

11-15-2015, 23:06

Whether or not the attack was a mafia one, it's interesting that someone didn't turn up. We need an explanation for that. It would be good to hear from the other protection group in some form.

Myself and Golden1Knight and Dcmort were on Kagemusha. I knew of his true identity, the others did not.

However, since it was decided to protect him multiple times, the scumbags were tipped off that he was worth ganging up on.

I was very careful to keep his identity a secret. Neither dcmort nor Golden1Knight were ever informed that Kage wasn't even a Firnazian. I told them he was just another member of our cult, to conceal the real reason why he was being protected.

Dcmort never sent the order last night, and now we know it was deliberate.

Ituralde

11-15-2015, 23:07

You never fail to impress. Your first action is to vote for the guy I voted for last night and then I should die the next day?

Awesome.

I have nothing on dcmort93 or jht. They are both complete unknowns to me.

Also wasn't Kagemusha killed by two guys technically? What does your source have to say about dcmorts accomplice?

Askthepizzaguy

11-15-2015, 23:08

Isn't dcmort known for being borderline inactive?

Unvote: Vote: dcmort93

He has been active every other night of the game.

Goodbye, dcmort. Hope it was worth it.

Askthepizzaguy

11-15-2015, 23:09

You never fail to impress. Your first action is to vote for the guy I voted for last night and then I should die the next day?

Askthepizzaguy is not impressed by your distancing tactic. You haven't acted like a townie all game and you will die, by my own hand if necessary.

See you soon, scum.

Askthepizzaguy

11-15-2015, 23:13

Isn't it interesting when the leader of the Firnazians calls for your head, Golden1 showed up, but dcmort was nowhere to be seen?

Why wouldn't dcmort vote with his fellow Firnazians? Especially considering how close the vote was.

~:pimp:

I don't need a scan result on you, Ituralde. You're as transparent as they come.

edse

11-15-2015, 23:17

However, since it was decided to protect him multiple times, the scumbags were tipped off that he was worth ganging up on.

You're saying ganging up let them kill through protection? Do you "know" this?

Ituralde

11-15-2015, 23:21

According to you I haven't acted like town during Pirate Ship either, and I was town there. So your track record is not that impressive. Not that 'acting like a townie' is a very strong argument to begin with.

So do I understand it correctly that the protection made by Sooh, GH and their third member was indeed carried out by all three and they all showed up in the writeup?
Meaning that the failed two man protection was dcmort, Golden1Knight and ATPG? Of which dcmort didn't show up.

So for the Mafia to have known that two separate protection groups were organized for Kagemusha one each of both protection groups must be Mafia, right?
Or someone knew what those three person groups were doing via PM or QT. I didn't know of the Kagemusha protection by GH et al, so I assume the other Shahnaks didn't know it either, maybe with the exception of Visorslash.

Kages death might not have been in vain.

GeneralHankerchief

11-15-2015, 23:23

So we should quit with the Sooh bashing and lynch a scum. Capice, GH?]

Did I hit a nerve?

Unvote: Sooh
Vote: dcmort

Askthepizzaguy

11-15-2015, 23:25

According to you I haven't acted like town during Pirate Ship either, and I was town there.

Meaningless, utterly meaningless. :laugh4:

I will have your entire team, I swear it. Rest assured Ituralde, I'm not playing around this time.

Askthepizzaguy

11-15-2015, 23:27

Did I hit a nerve?

Unvote: Sooh
Vote: dcmort
She may very well be scum.

But dcmort is scum and directly responsible for Kagemusha's death. And Ituralde is flapping in the breeze essentially outed as well.

That's one firnazian and one shanak, and if I were Khaan, I wouldn't put the third one inside the Armouz. It's too predictable a setup.

I am willing to wager there's one more shanak scum. Sooh can be the place we start looking, after Ituralde. Not before, my friend.

Askthepizzaguy

11-15-2015, 23:32

But the numbers on the protections would seem to indicate against either you or Sooh being involved.

I'll explain via PM.

GeneralHankerchief

11-15-2015, 23:33

I agree that dcmort is a good lynch for today, but I don't want to lock ourselves into the next two voting rounds without further discussion.

Assuming what you said is true, then the mafia essentially served up dcmort's head on a silver platter for us. Abandoning a protection group is one thing, but not even bothering to CC fake orders? And not only openly abandoning the protection group, but directly attacking that group's target, therefore making said abandonment public? Either they decided that Kage really needed to die and basically sacrificed a scum (a trade that almost is never worth it unless a more important scum is at risk) to ensure it, or something else is at play.

Call it conditioning, but I almost don't want to believe that we got this lucky.

Myrddraal

11-15-2015, 23:37

Not even cc'ing fake orders seems odd, but perhaps he was going to claim it was an accident? In any case, it's worth a crack:
Vote: dcmort

edse

11-15-2015, 23:41

He hasn't made a post since the 6th though. He also said this about weekends:

Also, there is a very big possibility that I will be very busy with work near the end of the week. Thus my participation may be a bit limited or lacking focus. Shouldn't need a replacement though.

Askthepizzaguy

11-15-2015, 23:43

Note he has been away from the game thread and didn't respond to personal communications for a while. But did the night prior.

This tells me it was a planned absence, intended to give an explanation as to why he wasn't there. So it was a plan of action set a day in advance. It's plausible to get away with it assuming that period of inactivity.

That had to be the game plan. It didn't work because we correctly assumed something about the game setup.

Askthepizzaguy

11-15-2015, 23:49

He hasn't made a post since the 6th though. He also said this about weekends:

Yeah, that's giving all the heads up you need to not be involved in the protect. When night falls on a weekend, he can simply not send in the order, which was the same order night after night.

Just happened to be on the same night the mafia used two folks to strike Kage. It's no coincidence.

Planned action, alibi posted in thread, deliberate concerted effort by the scum faction just when they knew he would have an excuse to not protect Kage, on the same night.

The mafia knew he was being protected by multiple sources. But they cannot have known to strike Kage when they did unless one of the Firnazian were going to pull the protection on purpose. So it was set up in advance. Now they could kill Kage and plausibly explain why dcmort wasn't guilty for doing so.

And furthermore, Kage was worth it. He could increase in power and eventually protect on his own or kill on his own. So that is why they needed to break the protection group.

You give the scums something they want, and they will take it.

I was always going to look at Golden and dcmort with a hairy eyeball, but being away during the critical night to protect Kage would have always gotten my vote on dcmort. I just wouldn't have had proof.

El Barto

11-16-2015, 00:14

Alright, if anyone wants me to vote for anyone else (or themselves), just write to me, here or in private. *yawns*

Askthepizzaguy

11-16-2015, 00:31

Visor

11-16-2015, 00:42

There's a bunch of Shanak that I think are townies.

Would you (Shanak) folks look inside your own cult and give your top 2 names for scums inside that cult?

I don't need reasons or cases, just your indication that you think infiltrator(s) could be contained within those 2 names.

My initial reaction was Ituralde because he's an active guy in an inactive game which always smells funny (having been the mafia in that situation plenty of times :laugh4:)

Autolycus possibly - he's shown a reasonable amount of interest in this game, though that could simply be town judging by his scum performances in recent games.

Said more than he normally does anyway, and did organise the shahnaks.

Possibly Myrddraal? He keeps trying to protect you, and I think its a wasted protection - scum organising false actions.

Iron and GH i felt are town, GH asked to be killed and all the orders bar mine had been sent in, so that would've worked (if i sent in orders, which i wasnt going to).

So, Sooh, Myrd, Itur basically

GeneralHankerchief

11-16-2015, 00:52

Food for thought:

Nobody outside of the Shahnak Three who attempted to protect Kage knew that we were going to do this. Would this make it more or less likely that a leak from Shahnak would have come from one of us, considering that Kage was apparently a super-powerful role that the mafia really needed dead?

Montmorency

11-16-2015, 01:04

Zack

11-16-2015, 01:35

Vote: dcmort93 I guess.

Thanks for the game everyone!
Keep mushin that kage in the heavens.

Zack

11-16-2015, 01:41

Ituralde, what do you think of the lurkers around here, such as JHT and DCMort?
What am I, chopped liver? Do I at least come with fava beans and a nice Chianti?

Montmorency

11-16-2015, 01:46

What am I, chopped liver? Do I at least come with fava beans and a nice Chianti?

This isn't the :pirate2: game anymore, so I feel comfortable with telling you this to your face:

I don't drink alcohol. :wink:

Zack

11-16-2015, 01:55

Do I at least come with fava beans a nice Snapple?

Askthepizzaguy

11-16-2015, 02:44

My initial reaction was Ituralde because he's an active guy in an inactive game which always smells funny (having been the mafia in that situation plenty of times :laugh4:)

Autolycus possibly - he's shown a reasonable amount of interest in this game, though that could simply be town judging by his scum performances in recent games.

Said more than he normally does anyway, and did organise the shahnaks.

Possibly Myrddraal? He keeps trying to protect you, and I think its a wasted protection - scum organising false actions.

Iron and GH i felt are town, GH asked to be killed and all the orders bar mine had been sent in, so that would've worked (if i sent in orders, which i wasnt going to).

So, Sooh, Myrd, Itur basically

Autolycus looks good for his voting record.

Myrd is okay in my opinion, I know why I'm being protected. I suggested it.

GH is town, imo.

landlubber

11-16-2015, 05:11

vote:dcmort is a fine option.

Visor

11-16-2015, 05:48

This should solve a few things.

I am the Shahnak power role, I can alignment scan someone.

Since I fear for my safety I'll reveal my results:
n1 GH town
N2 atpg town
n3 protect kage
n4 dcmort scum

I get no n0 scan, pretty unfair otherwise

GeneralHankerchief

11-16-2015, 05:56

An alignment scanner in a khaan game? There has to be more to it than that.

-edit- And without tiered results even?

Visor

11-16-2015, 06:16

An alignment scanner in a khaan game? There has to be more to it than that.

-edit- And without tiered results even?

With no role reveals? Fair enough IMO.

Sooh

11-16-2015, 06:30

Vote: dcmort

He didn't even forward the orders?

Btw, N1 Ironside was attacked by a single attacker. The musty smelling one. That attack failed, and Ironside didn't have protection. N2 there was an attack on BSmith with a single attacker and that one worked. Still no protection. N3, Ironside again, no protection, successful kill. Same night, Monty had protection and the attack didn't work.

It seems the mafia need two attackers to penetrate a protection group, or perhaps it's got something to do with random chance since N1 the Ironside kill didn't work. Perhaps if dcmort knew of Kage's importance they didn't want to leave it to chance that he was killed, so they doubled up?

Montmorency

11-16-2015, 06:40

It's been popping up here and there, so just to avoid confusion:

There have been four night phases so far, including the one we began with. Khaan called it N0 at first, then after a round or two he began referring to N0 as N1.

In other words, with the current convention we have finished N4 and are on D4. It's OK if you interpret it as four typical rounds, but with Night coming before Day.

Now, Visor: why would you reveal that? If you're a PR, then you've been doing well by lying low and keeping off scum radar. I'm not sure town has the ability to pull off any more double-protections, unless some Armouz come out of the woodwork.

If DC is down for the count, and Ituralde likely to go tomorrow - and assuming they're both scum - then you would have been better off keeping quiet, leaving the lone mafioso forced to kill the protection groups before he could reach you.

You could have gotten more scans in.

Visor

11-16-2015, 06:45

Revealing now forces mafia to kill me - forces town to protect me, so basically mafia have to kill people so that I can't be protected

unless they want to double stack, which then outs a ton of people as town because there are only two left.

So yeah, revealing now means we can narrow our PoE.

Ituralde

11-16-2015, 08:18

Heads up - on the third night (the night I was attacked), Visor got me and Ituralde to join him for a protection on Kage.

So Visor or Ituralde would be the candidates to realize that Kage was the PR. The scum would have said:

"Oh, I was supposed to protect Kage last night", and one of his mates - probably DC - would say, "Hey, wait, Kage is being protected tonight again - we gotta take him out".

On the third night I was indeed protecting Kagemusha. But it was together with Myrddraal and Montmorency.
I was the one who suggested protecting Kagemusha or Montmorency to Myrddraal, because they voted last on the previous day. Same as BSmith voting last the day before and he was killed the night after.

So nice try covering your tracks Montmorency, but trying to accuse Visor or me with false facts - doesn't make you look less suspicious!

GeneralHankerchief

11-16-2015, 08:58

Okay everybody, raise your hand if you haven't protected Kagemusha at any point during this game. :laugh4:

johnhughthom

11-16-2015, 11:27

Okay everybody, raise your hand if you haven't protected Kagemusha at any point during this game. :laugh4:

~:wave:

Vote: dcmort

autolycus

11-16-2015, 12:39

vote:dcmort

Golden1Knight

11-16-2015, 17:33

Vote: dcmort

El Barto

11-16-2015, 19:25

Okay everybody, raise your hand if you haven't protected Kagemusha at any point during this game. :laugh4:
~:wave:

So, everyone's voting for dcmort for some reason…

Myrddraal

11-17-2015, 15:19

Apparently, the message received by GH and crew was an explicit "protection not valid" message, and yet, we are also told that DC didn't send in orders.

This does cast things in a new light for me. The Firnaz group was the group of two. That means all three of GH's group turned up, but some other reason the attack failed.

I understand now why GH was saying that one of the three might not be able to work with his faction, but not realise it. However, the other two members of GH's group were all involved in the coordinated attack on Golden1Knight in the first round. That would strongly suggest to me that they are capable of collaboration (although, given the attack failed, it isn't conclusive). That leaves GH, but he suggested protecting Kage.

Another possible option (although perhaps unlikely) is that Kage couldn't be protected, or couldn't be protected against that particular foe. The write up does show Kage dismissing his defenders. Although, if that were the case, you would have thought he would have mentioned it...

What this does mean though is that there were no successful protections of Kage that night. What's not 100% clear is whether that is related to the fact that there were two scum.

I'm sure we're missing something, because it doesn't add up. The different descriptions of the attackers is still bugging me.

seireikhaan

11-17-2015, 15:24

Round technically has a half hour left, but it seems pretty set on who the lynch is.

"...And so that is why dcmort's guiltiness is irrefutable proof of his guilt!" one member of the court finished their oratorical takedown of dcmort to a round of thunderous applause, giving a bow as they stepped down.

Emperor Kavehir took his place, making a sweeping gesture to those gathered. "Well, it seems we've a hearty agreement from you all that dcmort is, in fact, guilty of treason against the royal family! Dcmort, do you have anything to say in your defense?" Dcmort glared balefully at the Emperor and those gathered.

">..."

"You know, perhaps the silent treatment is not the best defense, right now? Do you have anything to say in your own defense?"

"...."

"Anything?"

Following another short pause, Emperor Kavehir narrowed his eyes at dcmort. "Very well. Hand him over to me!" Dcmort was bound and presented to the Emperor. "I have the power of death over you, and you say nothing in your defense. A grave mistake, unfortunately. Dcmort, in my father's name, I sentence you to execution. And if you are innocent, may you find peace in the embrace of Firnaz." And so, with a swift, two-handed strike, Kavehir sliced dcmort's head off.

"I am sure we have made great progress today, my faithful subjects! Truly, only the desperately guilty would refuse to defend themselves! Rest well, and we shall return tomorrow, for greater glory!"

Tally:

Dcmort(pretty much everyone)

Alive:

Askthepizzaguy
Autolycus
Edse
El Barto
GeneralHankerchief
Golden1Knight
Ituralde
Johnhughtom
Landlubber
Montmorency
Myddraal
Nightbringer
Sooh
Visorslash
Zack

Lynched:

Abstain (D1)
Andres (D2)
ACIN (D3)
Dcmort(D4)

Killed:

Csargo (D1)
Bsmith (N2)
Ironside (N3)
Kagemusha(N4)

Attacked:

Ironside (N1)
Golden1Knight (N2)
Montmorency (N3)

Askthepizzaguy

11-18-2015, 08:04

Even when we're pretty sure, Khaan's writeups have such a tongue in cheek quality to them that you can't help but wonder if he's screwing with us, or our scanner is.

Nightbringer

11-18-2015, 12:11

Okay everybody, raise your hand if you haven't protected Kagemusha at any point during this game. :laugh4:

~:wave:

Vote: dcmort

If we don't get rid of him now he'll just be a distraction for the rest of the game over this.

Askthepizzaguy

11-18-2015, 17:18

~:wave:

Vote: dcmort

If we don't get rid of him now he'll just be a distraction for the rest of the game over this.

Thanks for your help on this important matter.

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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/confused.gif

What units does Bartix have? Tell what bartix and the faction that replaces Armenia got then?

To strengthen the fact that I am extremely confused and that I desire a appropiate answer as fast as reasonably may be possible, I will add a few little drawings, representing two faces in confusing, and twenty-one faces astride a toyhorse charging at an imaginairy enemy.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/confused.gif

I will send forth Alien invasion when press this link.

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Askthepizzaguy

11-18-2015, 17:37

OMG there actually is a Caddyshack II.

And it looks like it would be absolutely appallingly bad. Now I'm curious.

El Barto

11-18-2015, 21:30

~:wave:

Vote: dcmort

If we don't get rid of him now he'll just be a distraction for the rest of the game over this.
What is this I don't even

What units does Bartix have? Tell what bartix and the faction that replaces Armenia got then?
Oooh, I'm playing Rome: Total War as Armenia right now. My finances got better once I conquered Scythia, but those stupid Seleucids insist on attacking me almost every turn instead of crushign the Egyptians.

Csargo

11-18-2015, 21:42

Thanks for your help on this important matter.

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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/confused.gif

What units does Bartix have? Tell what bartix and the faction that replaces Armenia got then?

To strengthen the fact that I am extremely confused and that I desire a appropiate answer as fast as reasonably may be possible, I will add a few little drawings, representing two faces in confusing, and twenty-one faces astride a toyhorse charging at an imaginairy enemy.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/confused.gif

I will send forth Alien invasion when press this link.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/smilies/misc/ht_charge.gif
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Bah! I clicked that link and didn't get a speed boost. I call shenanigans on you ATPG! Your mafia reputation is forever tarnished!

seireikhaan

11-19-2015, 04:01

Writeups in progress, will try to have posted asap.

seireikhaan

11-19-2015, 06:06

Ituralde’s return to his quarters began as an uneventful affair. Everyone gave their curt goodbyes and went their separate ways. For ituralde, this meant a climb to the third floor, up the spiral staircase in the central plaza. Upon reaching the top step, however, the quiet was disturbed by a shrill battlecry. He startled and looked up, discovering that two individuals were perched atop the arches to the arched windows, one up to his right, the other, his left. Each tugged on tight-woven cloth they had hung from the vaulted ceiling, and leaped down, swinging like madmen while continuing their battle-screeches.

Unfortunately for the assailants, it seemed they had miscalculated their trajectories, and the two collided in the air at high speed a few feet to Ituralde’s right, their momentum taking them down the stairs. “Er… Well, yes, good luck with that…” Ituralde let them to their fate and continued back to his quarters, unharmed and quite amused.

“So… a cordial invitation, huh?” Visorslash thumbed over the scroll that invited him to a dance in the west wing of the palace. It hardly seemed appropriate, considering current events, but still, it seemed rude to decline it. So, here he was, at the doors of the grand ballroom, in his best robe. He pushed the grand, double doors open, and was greeted by splendor.

“Welcome, welcome!” A figure wearing a detailed, ivory mask stood in the center of the ballroom, accompanied by two others, also adorned in masks of their own. “My dear Visorslash, we heard from a little birdie that your life was in peril tonight. So we thought, what better way to pass the time and ensure all of our safety, than with a ball?”

A flame was lit in each corner, revealing even more masked party-goers, four in the left, two in the right.

“Come, come, let us not worry the night away!” The figure in the center proclaimed. “Tonight, in such numbers, none would dare harm us, so long as we remain aware of ourselves. So, come, dear Visorslash, you are the VIP of our affair tonight.” They held a hand out to him. “Would you care for a dance?”

Visorslash couldn’t help the smile that came to his face. Even in times of peril, the nobility still were wonderfully absurd. He stepped forward onto the forum, hand held out to accept the offer.

“Ah, ah, ah! Now, now, that is quite rude!” Everyone’s attention swung to two more individuals atop the stairs, which led to the balcony. “So improper! The host gets the last dance with the guest of honor, not the first.” The figure on the left was clad in silvery robes. A sparkling, silvered mask hid their face, but not the shock of white hair that flowed down past their shoulders. The one on the right was clad in dark robes, and wore a dull mask that looked like it was made of pearl.

“Although, come to think of it, we don’t really feel like sharing our dear Visorslash tonight, do we?” The silver-masked man asked his companion. “No, as a matter of fact, I think he’s all ours… Forever.” The man in the pearl mask answered. “So, be a dear, and hand him over.”

The guests looked on in shock as they realized what the two were demanding. With a clap, the host commanded to his guests, “It seems we’ve drawn unwanted stragglers. Everyone, it is time to do our duty!” The other seven ballroom guests surged from their corners of the ballroom, forming a semi-circle around Visorslash. In spite of their formal attire, it seemed each one remembered to bring an armament of some sort, be it a straight sword, dagger, or scimitar.

With a sigh, the silver-masked man pulled a long, curved blade from his robe. “It seems we can’t settle this with reason, I see. Now, you’re just not playing fair. Nine against two? What do you think, time we stopped holding back, I suppose?” He asked his companion.

“It seems they’ve not given us much choice, has it? You take the high ground, I’ll deal with the rest.”

The silver-masked man grinned as a white aura began to pour from him, writhing like a beast. He leaped from the top of the stairs, gliding through the air as the pearl-masked man began his own advance. Three of the dancers raised their blades to the white-haired man as he allowed himself to descend upon Visorslash. Their attacks missed, but forced him to weave through the air backwards, away from their strikes. The second assailant began his march forward, covered in a dark blue aura that seemed to grow and recede in a rhythm. He extended a leg and slid down the stairs in a single, smooth motion before beginning a long, arc around to the group’s flank. He revealed a long, straight sword as he shot himself forward towards a gap between two people for Visorslash.

“Halt him! Swing back around!” The host commanded. Multiple defenders swung to their right and closed the gap just in time, causing the assailant to halt on a dime, performing a backflip away from their raised weapons.

“Wait, what did I even do?” Visorslash demanded of the assailants as the white-haired man hovered near a wall in mid-air and the pearl-masked man bobbed on the spot.
“Sometimes, it is not about what one has done, but what one has failed to do,” the white-haired man proclaimed. “All of you gathered here are guilty of it. The Emperor and his family have attempted to usurp the gods. It is time that is punished. Him, and all who support him, have committed treason against the divine order. So, tonight, you will perish!” He finished with a flourish as he descended upon those gathered.

“Force him back! More, to this side!” The host ordered. As more of the masked guests made their move, so did the second assailant in the pearl mask. He darted in, lunging forward as two defenders attempted to skewer him. This time, however, both blades made contact and powered through the man. However, his form shimmered briefly, and for a moment, the man transformed into a pure liquid, passing straight past the guards and re-materializing right afterwards. He grasped Visorslash by the scruff of his robe and performed an impressive leap out of the pile of defenders. At the height of his jump, he twirled himself in mid-air, throwing the helpless Visorslash to his silver-masked companion, who glided through the air as he circled higher and higher.

“The time of the God Emperor is over,” he whispered to Visorslash as he clutched to him high above the marble floor. With that, he ran his sword through Visorslash’s gut before hurtling him to the floor below, causing Visorslash to land with a sickening crack.

“It was a lovely party, my dear host,” the man in the pearl masked proclaimed as he made his way to the exit. “Perhaps next time we’ll stay for the rest of the party!”

Another dead. A massive brawl in the ballroom. Security failing. Chaos. These were the things weighing on Emperor Kavehir as he called upon the inquisition once more. It was, perhaps, dawning on him that this was no more just a battle for justice, or vengeance, or glory. No, this was a battle for survival, now. It was comforting, in a way. He knew that the divine blood would prevail in the end. It had to, for the world to make any sense. Still, it was time to recognize these facts. The fifth day of the inquisition was under way.

Alive:

Askthepizzaguy
Autolycus
Edse
El Barto
GeneralHankerchief
Golden1Knight
Ituralde
Johnhughtom
Landlubber
Montmorency
Myddraal
Nightbringer
Sooh
Zack

Lynched:

Abstain (D1)
Andres (D2)
ACIN (D3)
Dcmort(D4)

Killed:

Csargo (D1)
Bsmith (N2)
Ironside (N3)
Kagemusha(N4)
Visorslash (N5)

Attacked:

Ironside (N1)
Golden1Knight (N2)
Montmorency(N3)
Ituralde(N4)

Visor

11-19-2015, 06:15

:bow:

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 06:18

Well, so much for that. :laugh4:

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 06:19

Also, I wouldn't be worried about rats among the protectors for once, khaan's feedback PM makes it quite clear we weren't to blame.

Montmorency

11-19-2015, 06:38

Presumably it's true - nothing can stop a double-down. In that case, we simply can't have more than one scum alive.

Vote: Ituralde

Myrddraal had the right idea, pinning you like this behind the scenes.

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 06:48

Vote: Monty

I mentioned this behind the scenes, but I don't want a mindless Ituralde wagon. We're going to have reasoned and thoughtful discussion of who to lynch today, or so help me Kavehir, I will murder each and every single one of you. :viking:

Montmorency

11-19-2015, 06:57

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 07:02

Ituralde

11-19-2015, 07:17

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 07:22

Do you think there was a fundamental difference between Kage and Visor regarding their protectibility or did seireikhaan just wanted to make this clearer in this nights feedback?

I infer from your comment that you received a different feedback last night? This nights feedback was very clear.

My previous night's feedback (Kage) was certainly different and less clear than this night's (Visor). There are a couple of possible reasons why Kage's protection failed, which I have outlined earlier in the thread. I know for certain why Visor's protection failed.

Montmorency

11-19-2015, 07:23

What makes you certain that the mafia can't double up on night actions? It's a reassuring assumption that appearing in the writeup fully clears a person, but it's not necessarily a correct one. Locking ourselves into this idea of thinking is a very poor decision.

OK, but presumably Mafia can't shadow-clone themselves.

If 9 people were with Visor, and 2 scum attacked, then those 9 cannot be scum unless we assume Visor got his scan wrong - unlikely given that he received the Kage treatment for his efforts.

Ituralde

11-19-2015, 08:36

Well, who would you like to lynch?

2 on Ituralde and 9+Visor in the kill writeup = 12/15 players.

That means 3 weren't accounted for. I'm fairly certain Ituralde is one of the unaccounted. Myrddraal should have more to say on the matter.

I agree with you reasoning, but not with your conclusion.

I was protecting Visorslash together with Myrddraal and you. I got the clear feedback from seireikhaan to prove my participation.
We have two options now:

1. Showing up in the writeup is reliable: We find the missing three players.
2. Mafia can do two night actions: We're back in the dark again and kill Ituralde just to be sure. After all Askthepizzaguy is convinecd he is Mafia and Visorslash is suspecting him, because he is "Active in an inactive game".

I understand now that seireikhaans games can be difficult, no reveals, no clear setup, but there has to be some point where the town can get their foot in the door.

Sooh

11-19-2015, 09:03

Fair warning, I'll be very busy at work today so I can't give any input for the next 10-12 hours, and when I get home I probably won't have much energy to do more than read through and see what you all have done before I go to bed. I will make sure I get my vote in before EOD though.

edse

11-19-2015, 10:00

Also, I wouldn't be worried about rats among the protectors for once, khaan's feedback PM makes it quite clear we weren't to blame.

Well, the Armouz protection did not work either. Were you four in your group? Was that planned?

In the meantime, Vote: Montmorency has some explaining to do.

Askthepizzaguy

11-19-2015, 11:27

What kind of explaining, edse? Can you be more specific?

Nightbringer

11-19-2015, 12:52

Hmm, seems like I'm rather bad at reading the most recent page in the thread. Lets hope this time goes a bit better.

In any case, I have a guess that perhaps protection orders fail if two or more factions perform them on the same person. We're rivals who don't trust each other after all, and that would explain the last two nights of failed mass protections.

Nothing in the write ups themselves suggest the defenders are getting in each other's way though.

And in closing, Ituralde seems like the best bet based on ATPG's analysis from yesterday, especially because of his immediate but not over-committed defense of Dcmort.

Nightbringer

11-19-2015, 12:52

Oh ya, and this part.

Vote: Ituralde

Askthepizzaguy

11-19-2015, 13:15

Vote: Montmorency

Montmorency

11-19-2015, 13:20

Now what?

Ituralde

11-19-2015, 14:56

Oh ya, and this part.

Vote: Ituralde
Where did I defend dcmort? I only pointed out that I had voted for him the day before.

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 18:02

Presumably it's true - nothing can stop a double-down. In that case, we simply can't have more than one scum alive.

Monty claims that he was in on the protection with Ituralde and Myrddraal, but this post does not match up with the feedback I was given for why Visor died at night.

String him up.

Montmorency

11-19-2015, 18:11

Unvote: Ituralde

If what I've been told is correct, then Ituralde is not really a suspect.

Please hold...

Sooh

11-19-2015, 19:17

Who am I holding and why?

No wait.. I know who, and why... :love:

Ituralde

11-19-2015, 19:36

Not knowing about my participation and then apparently not receiving the night feedback. Any explanation for that?

Vote: Montmorency

For now. I still think the 3 non active people are worth checking up on. I bet between Myrddraal, GH and atpg we should know their names.

Also there has been no WoK so everyone should be active in one way or another.

Askthepizzaguy

11-19-2015, 19:57

It's not a good look to keep suspecting me, Ituralde.

If you're a villager, you've got to move on now.

Edit: Or you're talking about who was inactive.

I know the remaining Firnazians were ineffective, but active. Lack of numbers. There were only ever two of us in this game anyway.

Askthepizzaguy

11-19-2015, 20:00

unvote

Vote: Edse

I need elaboration. See previous post directed at you.

Ituralde

11-19-2015, 20:03

I am not suspecting you or GH or Myrddraal for that matter. But they know about the Shahnaks and you know about the Firnaz.. ians?

So you know the 12 people that were active last night. Edse one of the remaining three then?

Ituralde

11-19-2015, 20:07

I know the remaining Firnazians were ineffective, but active. Lack of numbers. There were only ever two of us in this game anyway.

Ah... I thought there were more Firnazians active and underestimated the Armouz... ians?

Still curious who attacked me. It has to be town or do we have four Mafia now? Seeing as I survived. Happy to get a PM about it too.

Myrddraal

11-19-2015, 20:10

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 20:24

Three people in my group sent orders, counting myself.

Montmorency

11-19-2015, 20:26

The numbers in the Visor write-up don't stack up against my understanding of what went on. To the point that I tentatively wonder if khaan misinterpreted the orders sent.

I say this because to the best of my knowledge, no group of four submitted coordinated orders, and yet a group of four showed up.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

I assumed that this was Pizza's organizing work.

For instance, he and Golden likely attacked Ituralde just because that's what Pizza does, while Pizza had 4 of the miscellaneous townies just show up in a group to be seen.

Vote: edse

Edse claims to have protected Visor with JHT and lubber, but that can't be as the one 3-person group was Shahnak.

Myrddraal

11-19-2015, 20:26

So who are the four? Can anyone claim to be part of this group?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

seireikhaan

11-19-2015, 20:31

Ituralde

11-19-2015, 20:37

My apologies. This is indeed correct. The group of four was, in fact, a group of three.
So there were only 8 protectors of Visor in total?

seireikhaan

11-19-2015, 20:40

So there were only 8 protectors of Visor in total?
Correct.

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 20:47

Protection group numbers on Visor were 3-3-2. Combine this with the earlier point I mentioned about Monty and I really think we've found a scum.

Sooh

11-19-2015, 20:52

Here and confused.

Monty is a suspect because?

Ituralde I know was the main second suspect yesterday. Has that changed?

Askthepizzaguy

11-19-2015, 21:08

I did not organize anything, all I did was put Golden1 and myself to work batting at Ituralde like a couple of declawed kittens.

I tried to bite him, but I can't even break the skin of a hot dog with these hu-mon baby fangs.

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 21:11

Monty is a suspect because?

At first I voted him out of annoyance there looked to be an Ituralde wagon forming without much other discussion going on.

But then as the day continued, Monty posted this, which I referenced earlier:

Presumably it's true - nothing can stop a double-down. In that case, we simply can't have more than one scum alive.

On its own, not that big of a deal. He got the reason why Visor died wrong - which you, Sooh, should know about, seeing as you were in on a protection - but that could be explained by him doing something other than protecting Visor. However, combine that with word from Ituralde that he, Myrddraal, and Monty formed the basis of another Visor protection group, and Monty has less of an excuse to not know why the protections on Visor failed. Finally, it got revealed that there were three separate protection groups on Visor: 3-3-2. Somebody was missing.

Ultimately the missing person's presence in the protection would have changed nothing, as Visor still would have died, but I think the most logical explanation is that Monty bailed on his group to participate in the killing of Visor and then incriminated himself by getting khaan's feedback wrong.

Montmorency

11-19-2015, 21:13

I never participated in any protection and never claimed to have.

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 21:19

I never participated in any protection and never claimed to have.

Why does Ituralde claim otherwise, here?

I was protecting Visorslash together with Myrddraal and you. I got the clear feedback from seireikhaan to prove my participation.

Askthepizzaguy

11-19-2015, 21:19

I can verify that part of what Monty is saying.

He's been on maneuvers in Askthepizzaguy's Secret Sabotage Of The Town plan, trademark. He's been a loyal footsoldier in my master plan to....

Uh,

I dunno. I wish I were evil, this would be way more dramatic. I definitely would have had a thing to insert at the end of my villainous speech there if I were.

He's doing a thing for me.

But I had a question about it, and he answered it to my satisfaction. And I am obvious town, so that should be good enough for you little peoples.

Away with your silly accusations now, chop chop. We don't want to keep the emperor waiting, there are traitors to be hacked in twain.

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 21:27

So Monty was officially the missing person in the 3-3-2 protections on Visor?

Askthepizzaguy

11-19-2015, 21:32

So Monty was officially the missing person in the 3-3-2 protections on Visor?

Stewie Griffin: "Probably."

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 21:35

Unvote: Monty
Vote: Ituralde

Why the discrepancy?

Ituralde

11-19-2015, 21:42

I received a PM from Myrddraal that put me Monty and him on Visor. I just checked and I did not receive a CCed PM from Montmorency. So as much as I want it to be him rather than me. It makes sense.

He did receive my and Myrddraals CC though. So he knew about our attempt while he acted like he knew nothing.

GeneralHankerchief

11-19-2015, 21:43

Okay.

Unvote: Ituralde
Vote: edse

Montmorency

11-19-2015, 21:51

Just for reference, here is my reaction to Myrddraal's CC'ed orders:

Ituralde, Montmorency and Myrddraal will protect Visor.

Is this a red herring?

You have GH, Sooh, and Auto on the real protection, right?

edse

11-19-2015, 21:55

What kind of explaining, edse? Can you be more specific?

unvote

Vote: Edse

I need elaboration. See previous post directed at you.

Because of numbers partly, and it's still not right even though some numbers have been corrected. Ituralde said he were in a group with Monty and Myrddraal, which couldn't work out since the group of three were the Armouz. Is Montmorency Shahnak? That would make him the eigth and I still firmly believe that the cults are evenly split between 21 players and there's 1 unaligned player.

But most importantly, he sent me a pm claiming to be the scanner and said he scanned, or more likely watched, me kill Kage yesterday and Visorslash today, and ended the letter "want to talk about it?".

Askthepizzaguy

11-19-2015, 22:02

You know the cults aren't evenly split among the players.

Montmorency

11-19-2015, 22:06

landlubber

This is the time to account for your group.

Ituralde

11-19-2015, 22:16

Well, who would you like to lynch?

2 on Ituralde and 9+Visor in the kill writeup = 12/15 players.

That means 3 weren't accounted for. I'm fairly certain Ituralde is one of the unaccounted. Myrddraal should have more to say on the matter.

By the way, you mentioned here that 3 were unaccounted for and you're certain one of them was me. Now it looks like you were not accounted for by your own admission.
Why is that, if you are not Mafia? Why make the reason for your vote against me, something that you violated yourself?

Montmorency

11-19-2015, 22:27

There is more in heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy.

edse

11-19-2015, 22:31

You know the cults aren't evenly split among the players.

Do you know that? These are all the people that have worked together within their cults right?

Shahnaks:
Visor
Kage
Autolycus
Ituralde
Myrddraal
Ironside
GH

Armouz:
jht
Landlubber
edse

Firnaz:
Golden
ATPG

That's 7 Shahnaks. I'm 90% sure that no one of the dead unknows or Monty/El Barto/nightbringer is Shahnak.

Myrddraal

11-19-2015, 22:34

edse, you've probably said this elsewhere, but just for my ease of understanding, you're claiming that all three Armouz were in a protection group on Visor last night?

Would you mind sending me a PM with the wording you received on the failure of your protection?

Myrddraal

11-19-2015, 22:35

For the record, Kage was not a Shahnak, he could work with all factions.

El Barto

11-19-2015, 22:36

So, is it Ituralde or Montmorency?
Vote: Monty

I mentioned this behind the scenes, but I don't want a mindless Ituralde wagon. We're going to have reasoned and thoughtful discussion of who to lynch today, or so help me Kavehir, I will murder each and every single one of you. :viking:
What the hell

Fair warning, I'll be very busy at work today so I can't give any input for the next 10-12 hours, and when I get home I probably won't have much energy to do more than read through and see what you all have done before I go to bed. I will make sure I get my vote in before EOD though.
You're posting about future absences? That's almost as bad a scumtell as Myrddraal's posting using a cellphone.

So who are the four? Can anyone claim to be part of this group?
I wasn't part of any groups.

Here and confused.

Monty is a suspect because?
Because he offered me a number of doubloons to post my religious allegiance publicly, which would have told his scumbuddies whether they should kill me or not. His nefarious plan was frustrated by GH refusing to be my bookkeeper for the next three years.

Given his name, I must conclude that he is the Frenchman. vote: Montmorency

There is more in heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy.
:inquisitive: Explain.

Myrddraal

11-19-2015, 22:37

I wasn't part of any groups.
What were you doing?

edse

11-19-2015, 22:38

Montmorency

11-19-2015, 22:40

Then at least get JHT to say something.

edse

11-19-2015, 22:42

For the record, Kage was not a Shahnak, he could work with all factions.

Oh damn. So he was #22.

El Barto

11-19-2015, 22:46

What were you doing?
Nothing at all; I've taken no night actions in this entire game.

Then at least get JHT to say something.
Looooooool

Myrddraal

11-19-2015, 22:52

Given that almost everyone's religious affiliation is now in the open, why don't you tell us what religion you are El Barto?
Vote: El Barto

El Barto

11-19-2015, 22:59

vote: Myrddraal

Montmorency

11-19-2015, 23:24

Unvote; Vote: Barto

I'll see you in hell, scum.

Askthepizzaguy

11-19-2015, 23:57

How could there be an even number of cultists in each group? None of the dead are Firnaz afaik.

johnhughthom

11-20-2015, 01:01

Something.

GeneralHankerchief

11-20-2015, 01:02

You guys voting Barto realize that a mafioso would be far more eager to be cooperative, right?

Golden1Knight

11-20-2015, 01:19

But he didn't answer about what religion he belongs to.

For now, Vote: Barto

GeneralHankerchief

11-20-2015, 01:25

Speculation about religion and how it fits into the game mechanics in terms of mafia placement is little more than conjecture. Meanwhile, we have actual in-thread behavior and collaborating stories (or lack thereof) to point us elsewhere, far more concrete evidence than the votes on Barto.

Nightbringer

11-20-2015, 02:07

I should reword, Ituralde, your posts felt very much like you were both trying to distance yourself from Dcmort, while also throwing out a lot of information that presented other possible leads.

Also, since we are putting together lists of info, I might as well out myself as Armouz who has been totally inactivate at night.

landlubber

11-20-2015, 03:05

landlubber

This is the time to account for your group.

It was I who arranged the group, landlubber has had to little time to organise anything the two previous nights so I thought it best to do it myself. We all three sent in orders and are there in the write-up together with a Shahnak group of three and one of two (where apparently you are the one missing, not me)

This is correct. I was CCd on orders from both edse and JHT.

I should reword, Ituralde, your posts felt very much like you were both trying to distance yourself from Dcmort, while also throwing out a lot of information that presented other possible leads.

Also, since we are putting together lists of info, I might as well out myself as Armouz who has been totally inactivate at night.

Why in the world haven't you come forward earlier?

Nightbringer

11-20-2015, 03:14

Honestly, this month of my life has been pretty hellish so my participation has been very scattered, plus I wasn't sure if I wanted to start throwing my name around, since I never knew of any other armouz until now.

landlubber

11-20-2015, 03:30

Checking in, claiming Armouz. The more organized we are, the better IMO.

I'm not sure what to make of that. I claimed Armouz immediately in-thread, and have repeated it again since.

I don't like your explanation, but I doubt you'd try such a risky gambit if you were scum.

vote:El Barto, I guess.

GeneralHankerchief

11-20-2015, 03:41

vote:El Barto, I guess.

https://i.imgur.com/Qn7oYmr.gif

Csargo

11-20-2015, 05:00

Vote:El Barto

lulz

Montmorency

11-20-2015, 05:13

Can you do that because he invoked Firnaz?

Nightbringer

11-20-2015, 05:59

I'm not sure what to make of that. I claimed Armouz immediately in-thread, and have repeated it again since.

I don't like your explanation, but I doubt you'd try such a risky gambit if you were scum.

vote:El Barto, I guess.

All I can say is I must have missed it. Like I said, shitty life this month.

Why are people targeting El Barto exactly?

Myrddraal

11-20-2015, 08:44

Because he is one of the small group of people with no claimed religious affiliation and no claimed night actions. A bit like... Oh. :wink:

Askthepizzaguy

11-20-2015, 08:58

NO RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION!!!!

:stare:

We can't allow that! Conform! Repent! Convert! Become one with the hive!

Everyone knows that you folks without gods must be evil. Where do you get your morality? When the voices in your head tell you to kill things to honor your God, don't you know that disobeying those voices is morally wrong?

Tsk tsk. You young people think you know better than the holy scrolls. They were written in goat's blood for a reason, sonny.

Ituralde

11-20-2015, 13:18

Just for reference, the actions taken last night, according to my information. Corrections are always welcome.
Anyone who claims protection can get his PM checked out by Myrddraal.

Askthepizzaguy - attacked Ituralde
Autolycus - Protected Visor
Edse - Protected Visor
El Barto
GeneralHankerchief - Protected Visor
Golden1Knight - attacked Ituralde
Ituralde - Protected Visor
Johnhughtom - Protected Visor
Landlubber - Protected Visor
Montmorency
Myddraal - Protected Visor
Nightbringer
Sooh - Protected Visor
Visorslash - Killed
Zack

The four that were unaccounted sorted by activity:
Zack
El Barto
Nightbringer
Montmorency

Going after those four should be a good start, but we have to keep in mind that there are still other roles out there.
Then there's potentially a Firnaz power role and a Armouz power role. Maybe another independent role instead, if seireikhaan intentionally messed up the symmetry.

Only two of the Mafia went killing last night, so the clever thing for the third guy would have been to hide among the Protection groups.
Unless of course dcmort was Mafia. Also a thing I noticed about the Mafia that might explain the different descriptions. Maybe they level up through killing? Get more actions / powers. That would explain why they started out with ordinary knife attacks and have now graduated to phase-shifting and flying and what not.

Montmorency

11-20-2015, 13:29

I welcome you to vote Barto in that case.

Myrddraal

11-20-2015, 14:22

GeneralHankerchief your vote is currently on edse, but I'm not sure I understand why?

Myrddraal

11-20-2015, 14:26

The vote on El Barto is going a little to easily.

Unvote. Vote:Monty

Lets see how this goes.

Myrddraal

11-20-2015, 14:28

The tally, as I make it:

<tbody>
El Barto
Monty
Edse
Ituralde
Myrddraal

4
3
2
1
1

</tbody>

<tbody>
Voter
Votee

Monty
El Barto

GH
edse

edse
Monty

Nightbringer
Ituralde

ATPG
edse

Ituralde
Monty

El Barto
Myrddraal

Myrddraal
Monty

Golden1Knight
El Barto

landlubber
El Barto

Csargo
El Barto

</tbody>

Montmorency

11-20-2015, 14:44

Ituralde is a fourth vote on me. Also, it's not at all clear that csargo counts as a vote.

To make things clearer for those struggling to follow, edse is a suspect because he was scanned as a mafia-aligned killer of Visor and Kage, but his apparent presence in the writeup as a protector merits a follow up on his activities.

Bart, at least, is the last living player with no claims of action or affiliation to their name, and so should be lynched while more information is gathered on edse.

Myrddraal

11-20-2015, 14:46

I could only see 3 votes on you (edse, Ituralde and me)

Ituralde

11-20-2015, 14:54

To make things clearer for those struggling to follow, edse is a suspect because he was scanned as a mafia-aligned killer of Visor and Kage, but his apparent presence in the writeup as a protector merits a follow up on his activities.

That's some big news! Was this mentioned in the thread before? Was this the last Visor scan?

Unvote.

Montmorency

11-20-2015, 14:59

Bart, edse, and you (M) are the ones voting me now that Itu has unvoted.

Askthepizzaguy

11-20-2015, 15:10

I am distressed that votes have not moved off of Monty and onto edse.

It's fine, we can repeat this exercise tomorrow. Maybe we'll get it right after practicing our aim.

Montmorency

11-20-2015, 15:16

Sorry, Barto switched to Myrd earlier.

Ituralde

11-20-2015, 15:19

Vote: edse

Just to tie it up. Maybe buy us some time.

I'm officially confused now. Mafia scan and protection. Missing Armouzians...

Askthepizzaguy

11-20-2015, 15:29

Oh yes, it's quite a weird game so far.

Montmorency

11-20-2015, 15:34

Unvote; Vote:edse

Violence is the answer. Come at me.

Askthepizzaguy

11-20-2015, 15:35

So I might be directing my impotent frustration at Ituralde again tonight.

No offense, my good lad.

I shall attempt to slay you with goose feathers tonight. Those feathers can be pretty damaging if you have a sack full of them, and hurl it at your opponent from across the room.

Swords are for losers.

En garde!

Ituralde

11-20-2015, 15:38

Looking forward to it.

Ituralde

11-20-2015, 15:42

Unvote.

edse

11-20-2015, 17:06

That's some big news! Was this mentioned in the thread before? Was this the last Visor scan?

Unvote.

Monty claims to be a scanner and that he saw me kill Kage two nights ago and Visor last night.

Myrddraal

11-20-2015, 17:27

And yet edse shows up in the write-up.

So either Monty has caught edse red-handed, or he is leading us by the nose.

Right now, I'm inclined to think the latter.

seireikhaan

11-20-2015, 17:30

The tally, as I have it:

Edse 3(Pizza, Monty, GH)
El Barto 3(GoldenKnight, landlubber, Csargo)
Monty 2(Edse, Myddraal)
Ituralde 1(Nightbringer)
Myddraal 1(El Barto)

seireikhaan

11-20-2015, 17:59

Alright, timer is expired. Let's see what we've got...

seireikhaan

11-20-2015, 18:09

It was likely the most tense day yet for discussion as the inquisition attempted to determine who in its ranks were sabotaging their efforts. Accusations were flung back and forth over the events of the previous two nights, until it reached a peak as Edse, El Barto, and Montmorency were held as the most likely to be guilty as such. As the sun began to set, Kavehir requested a tally of the accusations from the scribe. It seemed Edse was held as the final leader, by a single vote. He was immediately rounded up and presented to the emperor.

"Do we have any final words before we send dear Edse here to the afterlife?" Kavehir requested of the audience.

"No...." A spectral voice rang out as the spirit of Csargo shimmered back into being, his form a violet outline of his mortal form. It raised an accusatory finger at El Barto. "Him..." The scribe looked to the emperor in shock at the development.

"Do.... does that count, my lord?"

Kavehir was stunned as well, but gathered himself with a shake of his head. "Yes, yes it does! It seems our work is not yet done! The dead have spoken! Continue onwards, find us the most guilty party of all!"

We are on tiebreaker. The first vote that alters/ends the tiebreak will end the round. If it is not ended within 12 hours, I'll cook up another way to end the round.

Edse 3(Pizza, Monty, GH)
El Barto 3(GoldenKnight, landlubber, Csargo)
Monty 2(Edse, Myddraal)
Ituralde 1(Nightbringer)
Myddraal 1(El Barto)

Csargo

11-20-2015, 18:20

I'd take my vote back if I could.

Zack

11-20-2015, 18:21

vote edse

Myrddraal

11-20-2015, 18:27

Hi Zack, nice of you to pop by ~:wave:
I was curious to see who you would save.

Myrddraal

11-20-2015, 18:29

Pretty sure this won't count, but worth a shot:
Unvote. Vote: El Barto

seireikhaan

11-20-2015, 18:35

"No, it is definitely Edse, I am sure of it!" A new voice rang out. "I am positive!"

"Very well, we have our choice," Kavehir responded. "Bring him here!" And so, once more, Edse was presented to the emperor, his hands bound behind his back.

"Pah, what a farce. They didn't even make up their minds!" Edse protested. "Why, we dishonor the dead with this!"

Kavehir raised an eyebrow at him. "The dead that we ourselves put to rest? Their input is... appreciated, but destiny belongs to the living. Edse, in the name of my father, I issue my judgment!" With an overhand cleave, Kavehir brought his scimitar down upon Edse and sliced his head clean from his shoulders.

"Well met, my faithful attendants! Let us continue our march forward towards a better tomorrow! Rest well, and reconvene tomorrow with vigor once more!"

Tally:

Edse 4(Zack, Pizza, Monty, GH)
El Barto 3(GoldenKnight, landlubber, Csargo)
Monty 2(Edse, Myddraal)
Ituralde 1(Nightbringer)
Myddraal 1(El Barto)

Alive:

Askthepizzaguy
Autolycus
El Barto
GeneralHankerchief
Golden1Knight
Ituralde
Johnhughtom
Landlubber
Montmorency
Myddraal
Nightbringer
Sooh
Zack

Lynched:

Abstain (D1)
Andres (D2)
ACIN (D3)
Dcmort(D4)
Edse(D5)

Killed:

Csargo (D1)
Bsmith (N2)
Ironside (N3)
Kagemusha(N4)
Visorslash (N5)

Attacked:

Ironside (N1)
Golden1Knight (N2)
Montmorency(N3)
Ituralde(N4)

El Barto

11-21-2015, 01:17

All I can say is I must have missed it. Like I said, shitty life this month.

Why are people targeting El Barto exactly?

Because he is one of the small group of people with no claimed religious affiliation and no claimed night actions. A bit like... Oh. :wink:
Subtle correction: it's ‘claimed no night actions’, not ‘no claimed night actions’.

Montmorency

11-21-2015, 01:22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU

Zack

11-21-2015, 05:19

Hi Zack, nice of you to pop by ~:wave:
I was curious to see who you would save.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKY7ravKgLw

Zack

11-21-2015, 05:23

Pretty sure this won't count, but worth a shot:
Unvote. Vote: El Barto
So you wanted to save edse? You seem distraught at his demise.

Nightbringer

11-21-2015, 07:17

But isn't that sticking your neck way too far out as mafia. It looks like a desperate attempt at saving someone with no strong reason to think it would work. Its a pointless risk for mafia.

On the other hand, Zack and el Barto are a possible pair of mafia, especially since they are both on that unknown list I've made my way onto.

Myrddraal

11-21-2015, 12:16

Nice try Zack, but I was online when the extension was posted. I could have ended it instantly (I nearly did actually, stopped myself half-way through writing the quick reply). But I realised it would be much more interesting to watch the scum come out to play.

But of course, you would like us to think you're not scum. So perhaps you could explain why edse was a good vote. Please bear in mind the following points:

The person claiming to have a scan on Edse backed down and said that their scan was not reliable
Edse was confirmed as in the write-up protecting Visor last night
Edse was one of a small religion of townies, and therefore a good target for the mafia.

El Barto

11-21-2015, 21:03

So if I tell the mafia my religion then I might be a target for night-killing? Better to not reveal then.

Zack

11-22-2015, 03:40

seireikhaan

11-22-2015, 06:02

Deadline met. Writeups asap.

seireikhaan

11-22-2015, 06:58

Askthepizzaguy was settling into his quarters for the night, preparing his evening dinner ritual. It was a time consuming tradition that dictated a fair degree of preparation, but some things simply had to be done. The universe had a natural order, and certain actions had to be taken, lest misfortune befall him. Three plates to the left, to hold the primary course. Two plates in front, appetizer. A bowl on the right, for soup. Upon finishing setting his silverware, he picked up a small mallet and gently rang the bell situated to his left three times. Finally, he could begin.

That is, if he had not been interrupted by a knock on the door. Composing himself in spite of the fact that he would have to repeat the ritual, he set his dining cloth down and made his way to the door. AS he reached for the handle, the door was blown back and he was sent flying backwards into the back wall. A man hovered in the doorway, long white hair flowing behind him as he made his way in. His eyes glowed a shining silver as he withdrew a long, curved blade from his waist.

"The hour of judgment is upon this world. You are not fit for this world, for my world. You sit here in your meager quarters upholding ritual but not understanding why. Such is this world now. The true natural order will remade, and all will know why." The blade was raised to a cowering Askthepizzaguy. "Begone, meager creature. Know that you die in the name of the most glorious cause - the purification of this world." A flicker of the blade sent a shining, silver wave into Askthepizzgauy, rending him in two from top to bottom. "Pathetic..."

"An outrage! I was sure we had made such progress!" Kavehir ranted as the remainder of the inquisition were gathered. "We had narrowed it down, we were on their trail! And yet, last night, another dead, and this time with nobody sure how? Ragh! Clearly, we must redouble our efforts! We must find the treacherous weasels who have gone to ground and evaded our attention!"

Alive:

Autolycus
El Barto
GeneralHankerchief
Golden1Knight
Ituralde
Johnhughtom
Landlubber
Montmorency
Myddraal
Nightbringer
Sooh
Zack

Lynched:

Abstain (D1)
Andres (D2)
ACIN (D3)
Dcmort(D4)
Edse(D5)

Killed:

Csargo (D1)
Bsmith (N2)
Ironside (N3)
Kagemusha(N4)
Visorslash (N5)
Askthepizzaguy(N6)

Attacked:

Ironside (N1)
Golden1Knight (N2)
Montmorency(N3)
Ituralde(N4)

Zack

11-22-2015, 07:24

Vote: El Barto

:rtwno:

Askthepizzaguy

11-22-2015, 13:25

Got someone's attention. :smug:

Visor

11-22-2015, 14:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SECVGN4Bsgg

GeneralHankerchief

11-22-2015, 18:12

Vote: autolycus

Inconsistency with sending in protection orders at night.

Golden1Knight

11-22-2015, 18:45

Vote: El Barto

The other mafioso was busy, or was him our departed edse?

El Barto

11-22-2015, 21:28

‘Other’ would imply that I was one of a group of two. I am not in any groups whatsoever.

vote:Myrddraal for trying to have me lynched yesterday. I'd've killed you if I had been capable of it after that, regardless of alignment and religion.

Sooh

11-22-2015, 21:55

Vote: autolycus

Inconsistency with sending in protection orders at night.
Yes, I noticed this too.

Vote: autolycus

Splainey pls.

Myrddraal

11-22-2015, 22:08

for trying to have me lynched yesterday. I'd've killed you if I had been capable of it after that, regardless of alignment and religion.
You would have killed me for putting you under pressure, in a game of Mafia, really? Of course it's nothing personal.

‘Other’ would imply that I was one of a group of two. I am not in any groups whatsoever.
Sounds like the prelude to a role reveal... *drumroll* :wink2:

On another note, last round Monty successfully dodged far too much attention, seemly by voting for whoever the limelight fell on, however briefly, to get himself out of trouble.

Vote: Monty

GeneralHankerchief

11-23-2015, 03:26

Zack

11-23-2015, 03:40

Alright, two things.

First of all, I'm strongly considering getting a vig group together to take out our serial lurkers. Among others, this is johnhughthom, landlubber, and Golden1Knight (Zack's on it too, but he has at least repeatedly explained his absence in this and other threads). If your name is on this list: Kindly start posting here to explain why your life should be spared at this point in the game. Please note: "I'm innocent" and similar variations will not be accepted as valid excuses.
Hard to do so without meta-gamey arguments, but I think my lackluster play this game has been in a particularly townie way. Look at my posts - I'm not being a "sneaky" lurker trying to fly under the radar.

Second of all:

Unvote: autolycus
Vote: Sooh

Was hoping my bait would rope someone in. If a mafioso wants to hide in a group, there are far simpler ways to deceive people than excluding a name in a set of group orders.
Ugh, I hate this type of argument, I think it's really weak. "You've activated my trap card" in mafia is basically ret-conning your bad vote. Voting someone for using the exact same reasoning and accusation as you is just lame.

GeneralHankerchief

11-23-2015, 03:46

Well, in this case, there was another reason: the scanner got a guilty result on Sooh last night and I wanted things to play out somewhat naturally before we brought that information to bear. :tongue:

GeneralHankerchief

11-23-2015, 03:49

BTW, let me highlight the truly relevant part of my above post:

Well, in this case, there was another reason: the scanner got a guilty result on Sooh last night and I wanted things to play out somewhat naturally before we brought that information to bear. :tongue:

landlubber

11-23-2015, 04:00

I don't particularly deserve to be alive.

Vote:Myrddraal.

GeneralHankerchief

11-23-2015, 04:21

No, folks, seriously, SOOH IS GUILTY, please put your votes on her.

Nightbringer

11-23-2015, 04:23

On another note, last round Monty successfully dodged far too much attention, seemly by voting for whoever the limelight fell on, however briefly, to get himself out of trouble.
Vote: Monty

That sounds like a pretty petty excuse simply serving to justify an otherwise inexplicable vote, inexplicable unless you know something more that is. Care to share?

vote:Myrddraal

Nightbringer

11-23-2015, 04:25

As to sooh, do we know what her night action history is at all, since that could be useful for confirming this scan as not a ruse.

GeneralHankerchief

11-23-2015, 04:27

It's made by the same scanner who has claimed that both dcmort and edse were guilty. If the game continues (ASSUMING WE ACTUALLY LYNCH HER), then we know who to target next.

GeneralHankerchief

11-23-2015, 04:37

Seriously, Myrddraal is literally the worst person in the game to lynch right now. He's a Shahnak, so he can still do stuff at night, he's active and driving discussion, and he's also been a healthy skeptic. If you lynch him we're going to be left with the scum, a bunch of lurkers, and me, who will die IRL from an aneurysm from this turn of events.

Zack

11-23-2015, 04:59

Zack

11-23-2015, 05:00

Montmorency

11-23-2015, 05:04

Well, GH, don't you find it a bit strange that I get 3 scans in a row pinging scum?

That everyone around Myrddraal and I has been coming up dead?

That you suggest Sooh as a scan target, and that you tell Pizza to have me scan Sooh, and she just happens to give up the same ho-hum kind of result that I got with edse? That sooh should just happen to be scum, though she certainly has nothing more against her than, say, you or Myrddraal? The same Myrddraal who's shown so much flexibility in his orientation toward his townie tools collaborators and PRs?

Vote: Myrddraal

And don't think I've forgotten that nice little episode (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/SVaGK4Fs3f78) early in the game, in which you nobly volunteered to be a vig-test, and everyone was onboard until Myrddraal redirected the target to the awful abstaining GoldenKnight.

Here's what's what, GH. Tonight, a large vig group will attack you under my command. There's no power in me or the fractionated townies to make the attack lethal, but at this point I think it's a better alternative than scanning under the impression that I'm not being led by the nose.

If you are scum, there will be a very interesting result, even though you will not be harmed. The nice thing is, it will be evident even if I do not remain alive to elaborate.

If you are not scum, then nothing informative will occur. A wasted night, but if you put so much assurance in Sooh being scum, with or without my scan result, her lynch should follow smoothly anyway.

GeneralHankerchief

11-23-2015, 05:05

Worse lynch than the scanner for sure. For me, probably 50-50, but Myrddraal seems a lot frustrated than me, so it's probably better he sticks around in the long term.

GeneralHankerchief

11-23-2015, 05:17

Well, GH, don't you find it a bit strange that I get 3 scans in a row pinging scum?

I do find it strange, but I also trust my own judgment. The dcmort thing came out of nowhere and there was no reason to finger him if he wasn't scum at the time. The edse thing was convenient for you, but it also passed my smell test. As for the Sooh result, I suspected her for my own reasons, so I'm naturally going to take a guilty result on her as an affirmation of my suspicions.

The same Myrddraal who's shown so much flexibility in his orientation toward his townie tools collaborators and PRs?

Why is this bad? Mafia make sure to be super-consistent in their public actions. To me flexibility indicates trying to figure things out.

And don't think I've forgotten that nice little episode (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/SVaGK4Fs3f78) early in the game, in which you nobly volunteered to be a vig-test, and everyone was onboard until Myrddraal redirected the target to the awful abstaining GoldenKnight.

I'm making no apologies for this. I volunteered because my RL situation at the time was not going to allow me much time to play for the game. Myrd asked me in private if I wanted to go through with it. I said yes. At that point he relented because, as per his words, I would still be more useful as a non-scum-controlled vote than as a corpse. I didn't take it further than that.

Here's what's what, GH. Tonight, a large vig group will attack you under my command. There's no power in me or the fractionated townies to make the attack lethal, but at this point I think it's a better alternative than scanning under the impression that I'm not being led by the nose.

If you are scum, there will be a very interesting result, even though you will not be harmed. The nice thing is, it will be evident even if I do not remain alive to elaborate.

If you are not scum, then nothing informative will occur. A wasted night, but if you put so much assurance in Sooh being scum, with or without my scan result, her lynch should follow smoothly anyway.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh... okay, I guess.

Do you legitimately have a guilty result on Sooh?

Montmorency

11-23-2015, 05:25

I do indeed have a guilty result on Sooh. It remains to be seen if it's legitimate.

Myrd seems less inclined to find things out than to draw attention away from uncomfortable facts, at times to cover for me and at others to distance himself from me.

GeneralHankerchief

11-23-2015, 05:29

Do you have reason to believe it could be illegitimate?

Myrd has been exercising a healthy degree of skepticism towards a role that has a lot of unanswered questions surrounding it as the game has progressed. Can we please hold off on making this cold war hot until we actually lynch the person with an outstanding guilty result?

Montmorency

11-23-2015, 05:35

Do you have reason to believe it could be illegitimate?

:inquisitive:

Did I stutter?

Myrd has been exercising a healthy degree of skepticism towards a role that has a lot of unanswered questions surrounding it as the game has progressed.

He expressed minimal skepticism either privately or publicly until the point that I mentioned these misgivings to him. Since then, we have not really had contact. That's usually the point at which a man in dark glasses and dark suit receives the message, "He knows too much" through his earpiece.

Can we please hold off on making this cold war hot until we actually lynch the person with an outstanding guilty result?

That's what Pizza said yesterday. He died.

GeneralHankerchief

11-23-2015, 06:28

*sigh*

I see we're just going to have to let this play out.

You have a guilty result on Sooh but you don't trust it, because the initial suggestion came from me and you're skeptical of my motives.

I would ordinarily be posting another Hades gif at this turn of events but, despite the part of me that still wants to, I do admit that you have cause for this turn of events.

It basically comes down to me trusting my instincts and you exhibiting reasonable paranoia.

--------------

Myrddraal has shared his suspicions with me earlier. Ordinarily I would let him argue further, but seeing as we're on a bit of deadline here, I'm going to quote a recent PM exchange we've had.

Monty claimed to get alignment and night actions. When he reported a hit on dc, he said:

When he reported on edse, he said:

Surprise, surprise: edse is scum.

He was attacking Visor last night. It's confirmed.

It seemed odd. If edse was attacking Visor, that meant he must have been attacking Kage, but Monty didn't mention this. And yet he claimed he knew dc had attacked him on a previous night. Wanting to test him, I asked him what edse had been doing previous nights. The conversation went like this:

Do you get historical activity for Edse?

Yes. He was attacking Visor last night.

I'd like to know Edse's actions before last night, if you can supply them.

I only get actions the night of the scan and the night before the scan.

What was his activity the night before?

As I said, he attacked Visorslash.

Hang on, I'm obviously not being clear. You've said that last night he was attacking. What was he doing the night before the scan?

Fourth night: He was attacking Kagemusha.

Fifth night/last night/night of scan: He was attacking Visorslash. He is Mafia-aligned.
So eventually, everything Monty said was consistent, but it took him ages to get there. If I had had that result, the attack on Kage would have been the first thing I would have mentioned.

Aside from that, one more quote:

If landlubber can confirm that he was protecting with edse and JHT, no more, no less, then we have to consider the possibility that my scan was spoofed or interfered with.

If that's the case, then lynching edse would be a bad idea. If edse is telling the truth, then the only people from last night unaccounted for would be Nightbringer, Zack, and El Barto. Keep them in mind as alternatives; for now, we need to see if we can intercept landlubber when he gets online.

So he backed down on the reliability of his scans when it seemed the facts were against him. This was followed by his in-thread behaviour, where he latched onto the El Barto vote when under pressure.

It smells dodgy.

My reply to him brought up the two major questions we've had:

1. How exactly the protection nullification works. As I mentioned to Monty, I believe it's a mafia weapon, especially if we assume that Visor was just a normal townie.

2. Monty's exact supposed powers. Seems awful strong for a purely pro-town scanner, especially in light of Pizza's final PM to me and Monty being able to avoid a kill under certain circumstances.

His response:

1. I'm inclined to think this is right. It's entirely possible that khaan changed his feedback based on the confusion caused by the 'invalid protection' with you and Sooh. Remember that Sooh was involved in the first coordinated hit on Golden1Knight, so I'm not sure it makes sense that Sooh was somehow not able to protect with the group.

2. This bugs me as well. Not only because of the role claim itself, but because of how unclear it was about what exactly his powers were. I'd be interested to know the time he sent the 'Note that the watch portion' PM.

-------------

To me this seems in line with someone who initially trusted you but had further and further doubts as the game progressed.

Montmorency

11-23-2015, 06:49

At that point, I was working with full confidence in my scan, meaning that "DC attacked me N3 and did nothing N4" and "Edse attacked Visor N5" would straightforwardly entail "Edse attacked Kage N4". Confusion over wording is a strange thing to latch onto.

As for my the scope of my powers, I have a number of weaknesses that I will not reveal because my strategy for tonight relies on their not being exploited.

GeneralHankerchief

11-23-2015, 07:19

Going to bed, won't be able to respond until the morning. But I leave you with this: If you trusted me enough to scan Sooh at my behest, why not trust me enough to actually make use of your result?

Sooh

11-23-2015, 07:19

GH, I was simply asking for an explanation from Autolycus. It was something that made me scratch my head when I read that PM, and I was pondering whether or not I was going to send a PM and ask, but when you lifted the issue to the thread I saw no reason to keep it private.

As for the scan result, ok? It seems odd that my role should produce a guilty result unless there's foul play at hand. I don't know if a framer would be a thing in a game like this, but I wouldn't be surprised. Either that or the results are so muddled they can be read in various ways.

I don't know many things about this game since I've been kept out of the loop for a bunch of it, but the way the scanner is still alive after going public might also signify the mafia having some use of him. Just call it a hunch.

Zack

11-23-2015, 08:09

It seems odd that my role should produce a guilty result
How do you mean? You're not vanilla?

Montmorency

11-23-2015, 08:17

If you trusted me enough to scan Sooh at my behest

I hoped there would be a different result. As it is, the night unfolded just as I expected given Mafia manipulation.

Askthepizzaguy

11-23-2015, 08:41

I would say that it is not unprecedented that a scan can be spoofed.

A game hosted by YLC many years back had a scan spoofer. Khaan has been playing since that era, and I would imagine he doesn't give the town these protective powers, vig powers, these numbers, and a detective unless he gives the mafia compensation.

Myrddraal

11-23-2015, 09:05

Monty is being inconsistent all 'round. First of all, he says I have only recently turned against him. It's more the case that my doubts have recently solidified enough to go public with them. I've been discussing his potential guilt with ATPG since day 2, when ATPG expressed doubt about the power of his role and suggested he might be a mafia tracker. Several small things caught my attention and built that doubt. None significant in themselves until recently (one small example, Monty said he had scanned Kage, and in his PM he just said it was 'interesting'. A bit like a phishing email...). Not enough to arouse suspicion if we weren't already suspicious.

After getting caught out with his 'scan' of Edse due to unexpected levels of town coordination, Monty backed down on his scanning abilities, saying they could have been tampered with. He now suggests that I could be the one tampering with his results. A bit desperate no? Is it more likely that Monty 'has been interfered with' or that he's lying? Remember that I pointed out the discrepancy between his scan and Edse's presence. Remember that I also pointed out the error in the numbers in write-up (clearing up confusion as no Mafioso would ever do).

Finally, if you still doubt which of us to believe, I'll point out that Kage contacted me in the first night and revealed his role on private. The Shahnaks can testify that I revealed this (without giving Kage's identity) in a QT and coordinated the double vig/protection on Golden to test Kage's claim. There are no post-death reveals in this game. Were I Mafia, Kage wouldn't have survived N0.

Myrddraal

11-23-2015, 09:11

Monty, if you're innocent you need to explain a few things, not least why you 'expected' the Sooh result to show guilty. Who knew you were scanning her?

Any why are you gunning for me? It looks a lot like scum trying to deflect attention by proffering up an alternative. Me accusing you isn't a very good reason (although I think El Barto disagrees :wink2:).

Have you revealed what Sooh was doing the last two nights, or did you forget about that part of your abilities (again)?

Montmorency

11-23-2015, 09:14

Such basic WIFOM. Die now.

Montmorency

11-23-2015, 09:15

Monty, if you're innocent you need to explain a few things, not least why you 'expected' the Sooh result to show guilty. Who knew you were scanning her?

Any why are you gunning for me? It looks a lot like scum trying to deflect attention by proffering up an alternative. Me accusing you isn't a very good reason (although I think El Barto disagrees ).

Have you revealed what Sooh was doing the last two nights, or did you forget about that part of your abilities (again)?

You can try reading the entire day's posts.

Stop asking questions just to look like you're asking questions.

Myrddraal

11-23-2015, 09:22

I just did. I don't see anything that answers those questions which isn't addressed above.

I did see one thing though that slipped by me last time. You say you got a 'ho-hum' result on Sooh and Edse. What you said at the time was that Edse was definitively scum, and had been attacking Visor (and belatedly added Kage).

So what do you mean by 'ho-hum'?

(And what do you mean by WIFOM? Seriously I have no idea)

Edit: You didn't mention what Sooh did the last two nights.

Ituralde

11-23-2015, 09:34

This is getting more and more confusing: Any more roles care to step up?

So Montmorency claims to be a scanner.
ATPG claims to have had a role, not really sure what kind of role, and he's dead. So at least the Mafia must have known.

So assuming Montmorency is a real scanner: The Mafia decided that the role of ATPG was more dangerous to them than Montmorency and decided to go after ATPG. If somebody has more information on ATPGs role that would warrant this, I'd be interested to hear this. Montmorency not being attacked does not really add to his credibility, on first sight, but it might be intentional misdirection by the Mafia.

That's my initial outlook, before the shenanigans of today. Sooh was apparently scanned by Montmorency to be Mafia. But now there's the claim of a Spoofer being around. This person would be either GH or Myrddraal, I guess? They would have the ability to change scan results, if they know that someone else (Montmorency) is scanning the same target. The false scan result would lead to wrong lynches by town. Most telling, Montmorency doesn't even believe in his own ability.

I have three working theories to base my lynch on:
1. Montmorency is a scanner, his scan results are reliable: Sooh is Mafia. So was edse before.
2. Montmorency is a scanner, there is a scan spoofer. His scan results are not reliable. Sooh is not Mafia. Someone is spoofing Montmorency. The suspicion lies on GH and Myrddraal. They both have good arguments against it. Myrddraal has known about Kage and he lived until Night 3 (or 4?). GH has been inactive at first and has become more and more active. For this scenario to be true, Myrddraal and GH would have had to play for the long game from day one. They could have kept Kage around to further their alibi. We don't know how the Mafia actually found out about Kages role, so it might have been Myrddraal all along, who betrayed him. The town trusts them and we now play along to their tune to our demise. Very risky, very clever.
3. Montomrency is not a scanner. He just made that up last turn, so he wouldn't get lynched. Worked like a charm too.

In case 1 there is only Sooh left as the last Mafia. In case 2 and 3 there's still two Mafia out there. They only put one into the writeup last night, to foster a false sense of security among the town. Maybe the second Mafia was busy spoofing scan results, who knows?

So if case 1 is right, we kill Sooh and the game is over. Town wins, everybody is happy. Case 2 or 3 there's still Mafia on the loose, we only have partial leads, everything is a confusing mess.

So Vote: Sooh.

Eliminate the easy option. I'll revisit the other options if there's another day phase. It will be confusing and I'm not looking forward to it.