View Full Version : History - Remember or Forget?
Shaka_Khan
06-09-2016, 04:15
I think most of the Total War gamers are history buffs. And through our fascination with history, I think we realized that we must learn history to prevent it from repeating itself. I know many other people who think that we should forget history because they think it's irrelevant today. The reality is that the present is shaped by the past, and it's hard to explain the present without explaining the past.
Roots co-executive producer LeVar Burton explained it well, "We are clearly engaged in the conversation in America and it's one where everybody needs to be involved. If you are living in America right now, then the story of slavery is relevant to you, because it's shaped the country and the culture in which you live, whether you want to admit that or not." http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2016/05/30/snoop-dogg-urges-roots-boycott-social-media/85158354/
And then I began to watch Roots. Although I still disagree with hiding this history, I can see why Snoop Dogg felt uncomfortable watching Roots. He is calling for people to boycott it.
Greyblades
06-09-2016, 04:53
"I don't understand America. They just want to keep showing the abuse that we took hundreds and hundreds of years ago. But guess what? We're taking the same abuse," he says. "Think about that part. When you all going to make a (expletive) series about the success that black folks is having. The only success we have is Roots and 12 Years A Slave?"
Ignoring the obvious fact that they're not really taking the same abuse, at least in terms of degree, I dont think snoop dog's point is history shouldnt be remembered. I think he is protesting against the current trend that the media made for and by black people has an obsession with it's ugly past.
I mean does anyone remember a historical movie about an african american that wasnt focused on the racial prejudice they endured?
Rule #1, history never repeats itselve, you can find it interesting that's all
Shaka_Khan
06-09-2016, 06:46
Rule #1, history never repeats itselve, you can find it interesting that's all
Well, I wouldn't say, "repeat in the exact same way."
I think he is protesting against the current trend that the media made for and by black people has an obsession with it's ugly past.
I got that from his message. I just get the feeling that there's something more. The more I look at Roots, the more I think he got too disturbed to look at it further. Or maybe he refused to watch from the beginning.
EDIT: I watched more of Roots. It continues to cover the Civil War and several days after. There were a lot of things that happened during that time that I wasn't aware of. It's a shocking story.
AE Bravo
06-09-2016, 07:59
I mean Snoop does have a point but this is a remake of a great miniseries and it's in the friggin History channel, I don't see them having as many good options. Show deserves to be remade and I look forward to watching this one when I get around to it.
I just saw a video uploaded by this black guy saying I'm sick and tired of these bgack people playing slaves can we not have a year without it?
https://youtu.be/FgB6s-7HPAo
I wanted to delete.my comments but here's a jist of what he said because ii ends up deleting my comments
I told him are you a pussy or something this is part of history just you like you guys, there's films out for white people showing them.in denigrating way like slaves of Arabs/Barbary pirates and Greek slaves as Persian's, Do they give a fuck? No! Do arab government retroactively apologise for slavery of europe middle east and africa and india no. What's done is done! Its like the PC leftist have mollycoddled the nation in americaI said to him there's a big Hollywood white guilt trip going on, his main concern was people viewing blacks weak or something and I some people viewing it will have sympathy for.blacks if anything it will . These films.might caught problems though as your saying like we've had all this roots series with the character kunta kinte, we read books about the black slave trade in school etc. But yes there does come a time when what's done is done and isn't really necessary to shove it down peoples throats what's the purpose of the film the republican party representative of the north Lincoln abolished slavery. Minorities in america have special priveldges in gaining access to higher education. And wrongly.or.rightly we discrimante in work places and HV nt mandatory quotas for percentages of workforce who.must diff ethnicities representative of the locale. Race relations in america are at a all time low you have BLM screaming hateful stuff about white people and black people who disagree with them calling all names under the sun like coon uncle tom, porch monkey etc. As if they shan't think for themselves and the other race is the enemy and must confirm to the ingroup and letheir 'community leaders' tell thgm what's up. I thought humans were better that that
So yeah Snoop dog is kind of Right no race of people wants to be pitied. But snoop dog cherry picks he forgets denzel Washington forest Whitaker idris Elba halie berry Whoopi actors whom aren't known for slave films nd lots of others I'm sure but should we bar the director making it? No, wrongly or rightly the directors intentions are not known and freedom is a thing in america. There was loads of films out last couple of years with with black people and for Christ sake this is a history channel section in the factual section of TV guide its not a blockbuster. film If he doesn't like it or in somehow doesnt like it don't watch it why call a boycott and outcast the actors out if any possible future roles seems very ignorant and selfish I don't knoe . Or does snoop Dogg waste his life sitting down and watch history channel 24/7 smoking high grade lol snoop Dogg is fucking rich, was this a publicity stunt
I'm surprised there even doing history on the history channel I think most people got used to aliens uncovered..
Pittytude is always annoying. You aren't special if you are a victim of something much bigger.
Gilrandir
06-09-2016, 11:57
I think most of the Total War gamers are history buffs. And through our fascination with history, I think we realized that we must learn history to prevent it from repeating itself. I know many other people who think that we should forget history because they think it's irrelevant today.
Whether we learn it or we forget it, we still can't prevent anything from happening.
Pittytude is always annoying. You aren't special if you are a victim of something much bigger.
What you mean? explain? i can't mind read lol.
I mean does anyone remember a historical movie about an african american that wasnt focused on the racial prejudice they endured?
Do they have any history that was not touched by this?
Unless recent history counts, then I'd say Fresh Prince, Lethal Weapon. :sweatdrop:
I mean noone makes historical documentaries or movies about five years ago...
What you mean? explain? i can't mind read lol.
Some people are just proffesional victims and proffsionally offended, I got zero patience for it.
Greyblades
06-09-2016, 20:46
Do they have any history that was not touched by this?
Unless recent history counts, then I'd say Fresh Prince, Lethal Weapon. :sweatdrop:
I mean noone makes historical documentaries or movies about five years ago...
1970 onwards would have some oppression free material. But I think he wants relevance to today more than anything; dude wants to see more Selma and less Roots.
Pannonian
06-09-2016, 21:00
1970 onwards would have some oppression free material. But I think he wants relevance to today more than anything; dude wants to see more Selma and less Roots.
There was a film released a few years back about blacks in the UK, and savage beatings featured quite prominently in it. But that's probably attributable to the gulf in quality between the mighty West Indies and the miserable quality of the England teams at the time.
Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_in_Babylon)
Greyblades
06-09-2016, 21:09
Edit: I just got the joke.
There is the expression "Being stuck in the past".
Whilst we must learn from History, we must always move on from it. Otherwise, History is simply destined to repeat itself.
Gilrandir
06-10-2016, 06:30
Whilst we must learn from History, we must always move on from it. Otherwise, History is simply destined to repeat itself.
Since everybody yells that history ever repeats itself, it means we learn nothing from it.
Since everybody yells that history ever repeats itself, it means we learn nothing from it.
No proper historian will say it does, history can't repeat itselve, conditions are always different, just like you can't step in the same river twice. There is nothing to learn from, only about.
Gilrandir
06-10-2016, 13:11
There is nothing to learn from, only about.
There is a lot to learn FROM, but humanity seems to learn only ABOUT.
There is a lot to learn FROM, but humanity seems to learn only ABOUT.
Every event is it's own, you can look for parellels but no situation is the same, they are all unique. History doesn't belong in the sphere of behavioural or political sciences, it has no place in now and tomorrow.
Gilrandir
06-10-2016, 14:27
History doesn't belong in the sphere of ... political sciences, it has no place in now and tomorrow.
Say what? Politicians make use of it now and will do so tomorrow. Whole systems of ideology are based on either the call to follow the example of the glorious grandfathers or the call to save the world from what the ignoble grandfathers have done.
Say what? Politicians make use of it now and will do so tomorrow. Whole systems of ideology are based on either the call to follow the example of the glorious grandfathers or the call to save the world from what the ignoble grandfathers have done.
Politics is about power, you don't need a history-course for that. I kinda like the way politcal realists see it, and why history is insignificant to explain anything at all. Warning, long read but well written https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/morg6.htm
We also need no history for understanding why people can be mean, cruel, or downright sadistic. What's there to learn? People have always been that way and are going to stay that way. Have half of the kids in a summercamp wear a red shirt and the other one a blue, and see history in progress. It's a bad idea, it's just human nature, not history.
AE Bravo
06-10-2016, 21:59
History has and will always be a part of political analysis, and realist literature from decades ago like the one you linked don't necessarily define realism today.
History has and will always be a part of political analysis, and realist literature from decades ago like the one you linked don't necessarily define realism today.
True, I like the steamroller pace though, worth reading.
Gilrandir
06-11-2016, 14:39
Politics is about power, you don't need a history-course for that. I kinda like the way politcal realists see it, and why history is insignificant to explain anything at all.
It can teach you how to get power and what to do not to lose it.
We also need no history for understanding why people can be mean, cruel, or downright sadistic. What's there to learn? People have always been that way and are going to stay that way.
Yet at some time in some place people became more cruel and sadustic than ever. History can expose how it came about and what is to be done to prevent it in future. However, it seems that this lesson is mostly learnt by those whose purpose is completely opposite, i.e. those who WANT people to be mean and sadistic.
No proper historian will say it does, history can't repeat itselve, conditions are always different, just like you can't step in the same river twice. There is nothing to learn from, only about.
On some levels it can.
On some levels it can.
Find me an example of history repeating itselve
Find me an example of history repeating itselve
World War.
World War.
Arguably, WW1 and WW2 are the same war, just parts 1 and 2.
HopAlongBunny
06-11-2016, 18:55
The saying: History does not repeat itself, but it very often rhymes; is probably appropriate here.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:History
Probably true, in much the same way "There is nothing new since Shakespeare" is true.
Details change, but we are still the same animals chasing largely the same goals; means to ends may be modified by technology or changes in norms, but the ends remain largely constant.
Arguably, WW1 and WW2 are the same war, just parts 1 and 2.
That's a vastly popular thing to say but they exist for very different reasons, what caused WW1 isn't even clear that is REALLY complicated and there is zero agreement.
The saying: History does not repeat itself, but it very often rhymes; is probably appropriate here.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:History
Probably true, in much the same way "There is nothing new since Shakespeare" is true.
Details change, but we are still the same animals chasing largely the same goals; means to ends may be modified by technology or changes in norms, but the ends remain largely constant.
Yes we are still the same animals, if one is looking for any consistancy I would look there. History has nothing on offer
Find me an example of history repeating itselve
Brian Cranston lead actor in Breaking bad. His father did a runner when he was a kid. Never had much contact with him after that. So he went on a genealogy show and they found that his grand father had done the same to his first wife and their daughter. And that one of his male ancestors who fought in ACW did the same to his family.
And in personal experience my father was the second son had me at 27 and had three kids total. My brother is the second son had his first kid at 27 and has 3 kids.
Point is on a macro level history repeats is a bit dicey. But on a personal level it happens.
a completely inoffensive name
06-12-2016, 06:27
Forget any and all history, it's usually found in books and books are liars.
Gilrandir
06-12-2016, 06:31
Find me an example of history repeating itselve
https://www.buzzfeed.com/briangalindo/10-weird-coincidences-between-abraham-lincoln-and-john-f-ken?utm_term=.ef9LZkAZOE#.dxBQDYwDaB
Seamus Fermanagh
06-12-2016, 16:33
I once did a speech in an event category called Demagogue (which for competition purposes was 'persuasion on an absurd premise').
My theme?
Those who do not condemn the past are doomed to study history.
I assume that Santayanna was groaning over that from the beyond.
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