The Olympics: waste of money or celebration of excellence?

[HopAlongBunny]

The Olympics, really why bother?
Increasingly professional (money matters a great deal) what is the point. It begins to read like a pyramid scheme; sure some few of the athletes make a ton of money from endorsements, really the big money ends up in the hands of developers, promoters and marketers. Spin offs! Trickle down! Spreading the net of affluence!
Hogwash!!! Hosting the Olympics is generally a net loss, with the hosts saddled with infrastructure that continues as a drain on revenue. The poor see little or nothing; likely losing on the exchange as resources are redirected to luxury expenditure.
The Olympics: Why Bother?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/olympics-economics-curmudgeon-pittis-1.3726383

[Greyblades]

We bother because life doesnt tend to provide national morale booosters on it's own.

[Husar]

We bother because life doesnt tend to provide national morale booosters on it's own.

So the nation state is basically on life support and some poor people in a 2nd or 3rd world country have to give their organs, sometimes literally, to keep it alive once more. #firstworldproblems #exploitation #globalwarming

I love this topic, the entire planet is going to waste and then people are given some spectacle that inspires them to work even harder towards ruining it without even noticing it due to the spectacle.
Trickle down never existed, there is only trickle up.
It is all a big conspiracy by humanity.

[Greyblades]

Hey man, I agree the poor nations that screw thier people over for prestiege are a bad thing and I'd be all behiund a minimum prosperity for a nation to host them.

But the olympics themselves are worth keeping going soley as a global pick-me-up of which there are precious few.

[HopAlongBunny]

A pyramid scheme built on the backs of the poor; reminds of another pyramid built on the backs of the poor.
Glad we've come so far in the intervening millennia.

[Gilrandir]

I agree. Why bother? Everything written here is true of any global or large scale event - football world cup, Eurovision, NBA finals, Superbowl, World series.... This is the way modern world is. It is centered around making money. I see no point in discussing why one has first to press "start" in Windows XP to exit it.

[Fragony]

Don't know, my mates daughter has won the world championship in her class and she's only twelve. They (not her she isn't ready for that) are in Thailand fighting for world championship. Why isn't a sport that is so unforgiving not on the menu.

[Montmorency]

Solution: Host permanent location on UN-sovereign territory, maintenance paid from participant contributions or direct UN budget.

More practically, just rotate it between the countries with existing capacity and prior infrastructure.


Why isn't a sport that is so unforgiving not on the menu.

The Olympics hasn't been seen as the venue for mixed martial arts.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

A pyramid scheme built on the backs of the poor; reminds of another pyramid built on the backs of the poor.
Glad we've come so far in the intervening millennia.

Take this attitude to its n'th dimension and NOTHING save for the growing of food is anything aside from exploitation and empire building. All entertainment (aside from the beast with two backs) is frivolous and unnecessary. All art is a waste of resources. All social structure aside from low-level anarcho-syndicalism is exploitation, etc.

I don't think you want to argue down that line

[spmetla]

In a way they are a waste of money but I do support the Olympics. I wish they were a bit less grand in scale so that they weren't such a burden on the host countries though. It is fun to watch and interesting to see everyone a bit more patriotic for their respective nation over most of the world.

For positives though I do see it as a goal which people can work for, having the fastest sprinter, longest jumper etc can certainly inspire others as well. I am a bit torn though because sports does get far too much money in general society anyhow, that people know they're favorite sports star but not much about their local representative always pains me.

I'd like it more if the Olympics were used by the US to push a good physical fitness program for its youth from elementary through college. While physical fitness isn't priority one in life it is important and if people developed good knowledge and habits about their body in their youth it would lead to a bit less of the obesity. Example being Kennedy's push for physical fitness which never really got traction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISgKl8dB3M
Olympics could be used to inspire kids to see what they are capable of physically but unfortunately it's just the personal interest stories of a few athletes that we get, especially for swimming and gymnastics while all the other sports are unrecognized by NBCs coverage for the US. Though I guess our culture of spectatorship would have to be changed first. People love to watch sports though very few even play sports with their friends in their off time anymore just for fun. Don't know many people that throw a football around unless it's with their kids.

[Pannonian]

I agree. Why bother? Everything written here is true of any global or large scale event - football world cup, Eurovision, NBA finals, Superbowl, World series.... This is the way modern world is. It is centered around making money. I see no point in discussing why one has first to press "start" in Windows XP to exit it.

It's less about making money, and more about spending money. With the exception of Russia, the top countries in the medals table are also the richest countries in the world: the US, Britain, China, Germany, Japan, South Korea. Like in football, there is interest to be found in individual events, but also like football, the more you spend, the more you win. With a reasonable population and territory (hence not Benelux type countries), your chances of success are roughly equal to your GDP.

[Husar]

It's less about making money, and more about spending money. With the exception of Russia, the top countries in the medals table are also the richest countries in the world: the US, Britain, China, Germany, Japan, South Korea. Like in football, there is interest to be found in individual events, but also like football, the more you spend, the more you win. With a reasonable population and territory (hence not Benelux type countries), your chances of success are roughly equal to your GDP.

Heh, a German science/informative show tried to test the influence of technology, so they took some current athletes, gave them old sports gear and conditions, then let them try their best and compared it to the achievements from record breakers of the past. Even the sportspeople themselves seemed convinced that the technology helps them quite a bit afterwards. Running in old sports shoes on an ash track is quite a bit harder than having modern high tech shoes on a high tech track and so on. Then there are things like the leg prosthetics which may be better than actual legs or Michael Phelps' high-tech swimsuit and so on. Money and technology certainly play a role.

[Gilrandir]

It's less about making money, and more about spending money. With the exception of Russia, the top countries in the medals table are also the richest countries in the world: the US, Britain, China, Germany, Japan, South Korea. Like in football, there is interest to be found in individual events, but also like football, the more you spend, the more you win. With a reasonable population and territory (hence not Benelux type countries), your chances of success are roughly equal to your GDP.

When I say about making money, I mean all that is appended to a sports event: not just tickets, but also souvenirs, TV rights, commercials featuring athletes...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Heh, a German science/informative show tried to test the influence of technology, so they took some current athletes, gave them old sports gear and conditions, then let them try their best and compared it to the achievements from record breakers of the past. Even the sportspeople themselves seemed convinced that the technology helps them quite a bit afterwards. Running in old sports shoes on an ash track is quite a bit harder than having modern high tech shoes on a high tech track and so on. Then there are things like the leg prosthetics which may be better than actual legs or Michael Phelps' high-tech swimsuit and so on. Money and technology certainly play a role.

Truly. And I have heard that the prosthetics are required to be set at levels that mirror "normal" performance but that, with a little retraining to take advantage of the full spring effect, "Blade Runner" would have beaten the rest of the field.

[edyzmedieval]

Bit late to the party here... but honestly, I would definitely support the idea of having the Olympics in Athens or Greece for that matter every other 4 or 8 years. Switch every other time but every other 8 years have them in Athens or some other place in Greece.

It's the historical place, Athens already has the infrastructure (crumbling and abandoned, by the way) and it's worth keeping it where it has been for thousands of years. Granted, you don't have the spectacular diversity of a new place every time, but it's a huge drain on the budget and sometimes the amount is not recouped by the generated tourism and revenue.

[Gilrandir]

Bit late to the party here... but honestly, I would definitely support the idea of having the Olympics in Athens or Greece for that matter every other 4 or 8 years. Switch every other time but every other 8 years have them in Athens or some other place in Greece.



Do you want Greece to sell one of its islands once in four years?

[edyzmedieval]

Do you want Greece to sell one of its islands once in four years?

Clearly not.

They already have the infrastructure in the first place - it's just that it's crumbling, not taken care of and in essence, it's not even old. It barely has 12-14 years. That's not old when you consider that some football stadiums in England are in top shape and they're over 70-80 years old. Such a strong revenue from tourism and external sources, like TV rights for example, would bring a lot of money for a Greece that needs a good amount of cash to at least pay off the debts. Plus - history. You're doing the Olympics in the very heart and Olympic spirit.

A lot of money is spent on infrastructure - Greece already has it.

[Gilrandir]

Clearly not.

They already have the infrastructure in the first place - it's just that it's crumbling, not taken care of and in essence, it's not even old. It barely has 12-14 years. That's not old when you consider that some football stadiums in England are in top shape and they're over 70-80 years old. Such a strong revenue from tourism and external sources, like TV rights for example, would bring a lot of money for a Greece that needs a good amount of cash to at least pay off the debts. Plus - history.

A lot of money is spent on infrastructure - Greece already has it.

When you compare the UK and Greece, I'm not sure the quality is of infrastructure is the same. It may need a repair, so more money investments. And Greece doesn't have any to spare.



You're doing the Olympics in the very heart and Olympic spirit.


If we look at modern Olympics, it would be more appropriate to hold them in the USA every four years - in the very heart of dollar-emitting and the corresponding spirit.

[edyzmedieval]

Comparing the UK and Greece on terms of infrastructure is relatively unfair - let's remember the UK was one of the biggest empires in history, so plenty of time and money to have a top notch infrastructure. I was giving examples of UK stadiums because they have been used for an extended period of time and they have been in good maintenance. 70-80 years old is old infrastructure, not relatively modern infrastructure with just over 10 years of existence.

The idea is that Greece already has the main infrastructure in place - stadiums, bobsleigh rinks, athletic facilities - all it needs is just repair and proper maintenance.

[Pannonian]

Comparing the UK and Greece on terms of infrastructure is relatively unfair - let's remember the UK was one of the biggest empires in history, so plenty of time and money to have a top notch infrastructure. I was giving examples of UK stadiums because they have been used for an extended period of time and they have been in good maintenance. 70-80 years old is old infrastructure, not relatively modern infrastructure with just over 10 years of existence.

The idea is that Greece already has the main infrastructure in place - stadiums, bobsleigh rinks, athletic facilities - all it needs is just repair and proper maintenance.

The empire is long gone mate. Infrastructure that's been built since the end of empire are crumbling, let alone stuff built before then. UK stadiums were bloody awful until various disasters (Valley Park, Hillsborough) forced rebuilds.

[rory_20_uk]

The concept isn't bad - but the ability of those involved to earn loads of money overseeing it all has gotten out of hand - as is the case in many international sporting events.

Countries debasing themselves and promising to spend billions on borderline vanity projects means it'll probably continue.

~:smoking:

[Gilrandir]

The idea is that Greece already has the main infrastructure in place - stadiums, bobsleigh rinks, athletic facilities - all it needs is just repair and proper maintenance.

And I guess the latter two will appear unaffordable for Greece.

[edyzmedieval]

And I guess the latter two will appear unaffordable for Greece.

That might be the case unfortunately, but if possible, it would be a viable idea (IMHO) to have the Olympics kept every other 8 years in Greece. The Olympic spirit counts the most here.


The empire is long gone mate. Infrastructure that's been built since the end of empire are crumbling, let alone stuff built before then.

Long gone, indeed, but look at a lot of stadiums that are around for quite a long period of time. (Anfield, Highbury before it was replaced, Boleyn Ground...)

Along with the extensive security improvements that were made after those horrific tragedies (Hillsborough, Valley Park Fire...), they withstood the test of time as buildings without any real damage or danger (the danger being the layout of the stadiums, the exits... rather than the stability and strength of the construction in itself - with exceptions of course) hence why my proposal of repairing and maintaining the current Athenian stadiums should be looked at by the Olympic Committee. They are modern stadiums, built in 2002-2003-2004.

[Husar]

They could let all the sportspeople do their thing at home, take the times, distances etc. and merge the video feeds for TV to make it look like they're all running on the same track. A bit harder for team sports but those don't encourage individuals to do their treadmill work every day anyway. :clown:

[Pannonian]

Long gone, indeed, but look at a lot of stadiums that are around for quite a long period of time. (Anfield, Highbury before it was replaced, Boleyn Ground...)

Along with the extensive security improvements that were made after those horrific tragedies (Hillsborough, Valley Park Fire...), they withstood the test of time as buildings without any real damage or danger (the danger being the layout of the stadiums, the exits... rather than the stability and strength of the construction in itself - with exceptions of course) hence why my proposal of repairing and maintaining the current Athenian stadiums should be looked at by the Olympic Committee. They are modern stadiums, built in 2002-2003-2004.

For over half a century, Carrow Road (Norwich City) was the last new ground built by a Football League club, opening in 1935. I've been to the centrepiece of Empire, Wembley stadium, before it was rebuilt. While it looked impressive from a distance, inside it was a dump. And pre-Hillsborough, which changed everything, Wembley was one of the last major football stadiums built in the UK, dating back to the 1920s.

And mea culpa, I meant Valley Parade, not Valley Park. I had Upton Park on my mind when I wrote that. Now that was an example of the old football grounds: existing with as few updates as possible except to keep them standing and not collapsing, whilst taking in all the attendance money. The inquest was scathing about football stadiums in general. And even that was glossed over until Hillsborough made the issue unavoidable.

[Gilrandir]

A bit harder for team sports

C'mon, Play station somehow handled that, so IOC would find it that hard.

[edyzmedieval]

http://www.citylab.com/design/2014/08/10-years-later-here-are-the-remains-of-athens-olympic-games/375808/

Some pictures of what remained of the Olympic infrastructure.

All of it intact. Needs some serious cleaning up, no stray plants around, some refurbishment... and it should be as good as new.

[Gilrandir]

http://www.citylab.com/design/2014/08/10-years-later-here-are-the-remains-of-athens-olympic-games/375808/

Some pictures of what remained of the Olympic infrastructure.

All of it intact. Needs some serious cleaning up, no stray plants around, some refurbishment... and it should be as good as new.

18883
A strange meaning you attach to the word "intact".

And are you sure it all is still safe (especially metalware)? If not it will have to be demolished and built anew.

[Pannonian]

18883
A strange meaning you attach to the word "intact".

And are you sure it all is still safe (especially metalware)? If not it will have to be demolished and built anew.

I'm not sure if London's Olympic Stadium will still be intact by the next Olympics either; the West Ham fans will probably have rioted and demolished it by then.

[edyzmedieval]

18883
A strange meaning you attach to the word "intact".

And are you sure it all is still safe (especially metalware)? If not it will have to be demolished and built anew.

I wasn't referring to plastic seats.

I'm talking here about the structures in themselves, which I meant they are intact. The stadium in itself, the building. And yes, when I mean refurbishment, this means that everything needs to be checked and taken care of to ensure proper safety without anything compromised.

[Gilrandir]

I'm talking here about the structures in themselves, which I meant they are intact. The stadium in itself, the building.

Even so, LOOKING intact doesn't mean BEING intact. When properly checked, the structures which look intact may prove totally unusable.

[edyzmedieval]

That's why refurbishment is needed. That's the point I'm trying to make here. :tongue:

The chances of them being unusable are very slim - and you have at least a basic infrastructure going on, which serves well for Athens should they decide to host the Olympics again. Probably not, because of money issues, but still.