View Full Version : What is the point of Jannisary archers?
I'm talking about the ARCHERS here, not the infantry. The infantry are neat.
Did we ever figure out the point of jannisary archers, now that we have projectiles.txt to refer to. Is there a point to them in single player or multiplayer? Are they just normal archers with higher morale? Or do they have better bows like longbows?
chilliwilli
12-31-2002, 00:44
They are a little better than normal archers. Kind of like the reason Italy has genoese sailors.
Quote[/b] (chilliwilli @ Dec. 30 2002,17:44)]They are a little better than normal archers. Kind of like the reason Italy has genoese sailors.
Better in what way? Morale? Genoese sailors have fast at least.
Do Jannisary archers kill more with their arrows than normal archers?
chilliwilli
12-31-2002, 00:47
I think their morale is a bit higher and defense slightly better if I recall. Your better off going with janisary infantry or turcoman foot though. They are much better and not that much mroe expensive.
If you go to Total War Assembly you will see that Janissary Bows are the only archers with .7 accuracy, 1.0 lethality, 2.0 power and a velocity of 250. I myself don't know the exact meaning of all those numbers, but they are higher than any other archer in the game. Their one and only drawback is their reload time which is 15. However it says that they do shoot immediately. So, they are pretty much the BEST archers in the game.
I guess you could use the J Bows with the J Heavies and remove the J Inf. middle man.
Oops. Forgot to add that Longbows might be their only competition as they have the vs. armor bonus and 1000 more range. Still, J Bows are still cheaper and have better armor on themselves.
chilliwilli
12-31-2002, 03:44
Actually Turcoman foot do the most missle damage. Someone ran a bunch of tests and found that they performed the best. Its because of their naturally staggered formation. It was posted in the mp forum a while back.
Interesting....
Still, I'm gonna have to side with the technical data. I guess they didnt win that competition because of their draw time. Turcoman Foot do look cooler though -- J Bows look like Alims with archery equipment.
I did those tests. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
But the Assembly is wrong, it has Crossbow stats for the JA while tehy have normal shortbows.
It is strange how the units could have so different results while they had the same bows.
Jannisary Infantry came out as only mediocre in terms of ranged combat, while the Jannisary Archers were quite good. Though I did my tests 10 times for each archer in the game, and it should as such be safe to assume they are correct, I'm not convinced.
But I still hold on to my vision of the Turcoman Foot as the best archers, and I have used them to defeat Pavise Arbs a couple of times now.
Jannisary Archers only have the advantage of less cost compared to the Jannisary Infantry should we disregard my tests (perfect tests would be LAN tests where there would be no AI to interfere). But they are quite good in their own right. I have used them along with Turcomans. The Turcomans in the first row to soak up ranged fire and charges (they have good def and with a couple of armours they can take a lot) and the Jannisary Archers in the second row with weapons to dish out the damage in melee.
Crandaeolon
12-31-2002, 17:39
Quote[/b] ]It is strange how the units could have so different results while they had the same bows.
Ya might remember my yapping about the composite bows...? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
But yep, it IS strange that so many people claim differences in the performance of archers that should be equally effective in theory. Might it be because of valour? It affects archery a small bit, I think.
My own tests, on LAN, showed no differences in firepower that couldn't be dismissed as statistical errors. I did over a hundred tests with different foot archers. (Yes, that's sad, but I'm an archery freak http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif)
Edit: if there's a difference, it must be because of something hardcoded. Any devs around to confirm?
chilliwilli
12-31-2002, 18:22
Yeah its definitely Turkoman foot. I'm having unbelievable success with them both in MP and SP.
All_the_Sultan's_horses
01-03-2003, 09:22
Hmmm, chilliwilli, i've used Turcoman Foot rather extensively. how do u get the best from them? all they seem good for IMO is as archers who die slower from enemy missiles.
Lion King
01-04-2003, 13:42
In your tests guys, pay attention to the formations, turcomans are unformed while janissary inf/archers are formed. this makes great differences in efficiency as only the first ranks of jans can shoot targets that are close/level to them. for maximum accuracy, put the archers in loose/staggered formation. also, turcs have a shield which makes them much better at resisting arrows thant any other non-shielded counterpart (BTW pavise is a shield before anyone starts saying stupid things, just in case)
Lion King
01-04-2003, 13:49
Quote[/b] (Zauba'a @ Dec. 30 2002,20:37)]If you go to Total War Assembly you will see that Janissary Bows are the only archers with .7 accuracy, 1.0 lethality, 2.0 power and a velocity of 250. I myself don't know the exact meaning of all those numbers, but they are higher than any other archer in the game. Their one and only drawback is their reload time which is 15. However it says that they do shoot immediately. So, they are pretty much the BEST archers in the game.
i wont say you are talking out of your ass because its is not your fault, i hope, but these stats are for the crossbow.
Janissary archers use exactly the same bows as normal foot archers in-game (except longbows) and differences in performance come from other stats found in the crusaders_unit_prod11.txt (such as melee abilities, discipline, morale and formation), which has nothing to do with ProjectileStats.txt where your biased info comes from.
No offense intended... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] (Lion King @ Jan. 04 2003,06:42)]In your tests guys, pay attention to the formations, turcomans are unformed while janissary inf/archers are formed. this makes great differences in efficiency as only the first ranks of jans can shoot targets that are close/level to them. for maximum accuracy, put the archers in loose/staggered formation. also, turcs have a shield which makes them much better at resisting arrows thant any other non-shielded counterpart (BTW pavise is a shield before anyone starts saying stupid things, just in case)
Hmm.. it seems it is time for another round of tests. Loose vs Close...
I have long regarded the Turcomans the best archers because:
They have good Armour
They are fast
They have shields
and they are in an unformed order
But all this I have given them the benefit of being hard to kill in ranged combat, not being better at accuracy. In fact I think the rule is that three ranks can fire without loss of accuracy in Close and 4 ranks while in Loose. And since normal archers are in three ranks it should be of no consequence.
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