View Full Version : Silver Bowl with seated ruler, from Iran or Afghanistan, 11C
druzhina
09-25-2016, 06:44
I first saw this Silver Bowl with seated ruler and attendants, from Iran or Afghanistan (Ghaznavid?), 11th century, State Hermitage Museum inv. S-499, St. Petersburg (http://warfare.tk/11/Plate-Hermitage-St_Petersburg-S-499.htm) in a research paper, then found it on the museum's digital site. It wasn't referred to in the paper. Does anyone known anything about this bowl? The lions seem to have Chinese influence.
Having a throne supported by animals is typical of Sassanid enthronement scenes. The figures wear right-over-left coats with lapels.
Similar lapels are found on a Cup with horseman, Khwarezm c.7th-8th Century, State Hermitage Museum, St. Petersburg (http://warfare.tk/Persia/StPetersburg-Cup_with_horseman.htm), a Bowl with figures in coat with lapels and hanging sleeves or shawl, 10th Century, Nishapur, Eastern Iran (http://warfare.tk/6-10/Nishapur_bowl-Sothebys-2012-518.htm) and on Kizil cave donor figures, in coats with lapels, Tarim Basin (http://warfare.tk/6-10/Kizil_cave_donor_figures.htm).
Does anyone know more about the attendants' hats?
Mirror site:
Silver Bowl with seated ruler and attendants, from Iran or Afghanistan (Ghaznavid?), 11th century, State Hermitage Museum inv. S-499, St. Petersburg (http://warfare.ga/11/Plate-Hermitage-St_Petersburg-S-499.htm)
Druzhina
11th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers (http://warfare.tk/11C.htm)
druzhina
09-26-2016, 07:00
All 3 figures have halos of a similar shape to the halo of the Khwarezm horseman (http://warfare.ml/Persia/StPetersburg-Cup_with_horseman.htm). A few earlier Sasanian plates have circular halos: the Strelka dish, of Khusrau I with his Court, 6th century AD (http://warfare.ml/Persia/Sasanian_Plate_of_Khusrau_I.htm), the 'Yazdgard I Plate', a Sasanian King Hunting a Stag on foot (http://warfare.ml/Ancient/Yazdgard_plate.htm) and the 'Pereshchepina Plate', a mounted Sasanian King Hunting Mountain Sheep (http://warfare.ml/Ancient/Pereshchepina_plate.htm).
Halos also appear in the Eight Kings of the Relics Story, Maya Cave, Kizil, Tarim Basin (http://warfare.ml/6-10/Kizil_cave_205-Eight_Kings_of_the_relics.htm), Cave of the Sixteen Sword Bearers, Kizil Caves, near Kucha, Tarim Basin (halos as a dark circlular outline) (http://warfare.ml/6-10/Kizil_cave_8_donor_figures.htm) and on a horseman and camel-rider from Dandan-Uiliq at Khotan, Tarim Basin (http://warfare.ml/6-10/Khotan_LIX.htm) and others. These include a lot of Bhudist influence.
'Nimbus' can be used instead of 'halo' but I'm not sure what the plural is. I haven't noticed any halos on bowls with figures from Nishapur, Kurasan, Iran, 9th-10th centuries, Saffarid-Samanid period (http://warfare.ml/6-10/Nishapur_bowls.htm).
Druzhina
Plates with figures from Persia and Central Asia (http://warfare.ml/Ancient/Sasanian_and_Central_Asian_Plates.htm)
Iran or Afghistan are you sure about that? It looks like a tribute, that is actually a tribute. These lions are pretty common in Mongol and Chinese art, but the assumed date is odd. There actually is a pass from China to Afghanistan, it's really narrow but current Afghanistan and current China actually are connected. I didn't know that but my former cleaner is from Afganistan and she lived close to that pass.
druzhina
09-29-2016, 07:47
Iran or Afghistan are you sure about that? It looks like a tribute, that is actually a tribute. These lions are pretty common in Mongol and Chinese art, but the assumed date is odd. There actually is a pass from China to Afghanistan, it's really narrow but current Afghanistan and current China actually are connected. I didn't know that but my former cleaner is from Afganistan and she lived close to that pass.
I am only as sure as the Hermitage Museum (so I asked for more info) & a 2nd hand note in Emel Esin, ṬABARĪ'S REPORT ON THE WARFARE WITH THE TÜRGIŠ AND THE TESTIMONY OF EIGHTH CENTURY CENTRAL ASIAN ART (http://www.jstor.org/stable/41927024).
Emel Esin doesn't say much about the plate, it is used an example of a Turkish plate for when Tabari reports silver plates captured from the Turks in the 8th century. Emel would have been attracted by a dating of the plate to the 8th-9th century (perhaps by Pugacenkova & Rempel, 1965, who are given as the image source) so any such plate would have done as well.
Tribute made by whom and given to who? Why do you think the 11th century date is odd? Would you have thought earlier or latter?
Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers (http://warfare.ml/index.htm)
If I had to make a very wild guess it kinda fits within the age of mongol expansion, but I am absolutily not knowededable about that, nobody is, so consider anything I is say stupid in advancece. What I find odd is that it seems to be a picture of a tribute, II's really well made with obvious craft. Testing the metal could give some answers but that's kinda hard if it's in the Hermitage. Please take nothing what I said seriously.
druzhina
09-30-2016, 06:45
I have received a couple of replies about the attendants' hats. They do look like some modern Mongol hats, but, a hat with similarities is on a bowl with a poetic recitation, Seljuk, 1187AD, Kashan, Iran. Los Angeles County Museum of Art (http://warfare.tk/Turk/Seljuk_Bowl-poetry_reading-LACMA.htm). Many Seljuk illustrations have people with a nimbus (http://warfare.tk/Turk/Seljuk.htm) (with the exception of al-Sufi manuscripts (http://warfare.tk/al-Sufi.htm))
Druzhina
Seljuk Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers (http://warfare.tk/Turk/Seljuk.htm)
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