Please help me with Muslim strategy

[Exile]

As the Egyptians in 1301-1321, my empire spread through Spain (was Almohad controlled, Spanish long gone) and I have come into conflict with the French, who control most of Europe. I can beat the powerful French armies, but I need large numbers to do so and generally suffer more casualties than they do. I think there must be some tactics specific to the Muslims which I don't know.

My main line consists of Saracens, with Abyssian Guards, Nazaris and desert archers behind. For calvary I am using Mamluk horse archers, Mamluk calvary and Khwarazmaim. Ghulams with my princes, plus usually a catapult or two. My generals are pretty good - a 7 star, a couples 6s and many 4-5s. V&Vs are fine. My infantry tactic is to engage with the Saracens, and sent the Abysinnians through the gaps into the enemy flanks. Then my Nizaris when their arrows are spent.

units that particularly kick my butt:
-Royal knights
-Fuedal knights
-CMAAs
-order foot soldiers


recently I attacked a large French army and lured his calvary into a forest while most of my army got onto a hill on the same height as the French and engaged their main line. In the forest my Saracens were beaten by knights and when the French knights chased the fleeing Saracens into the open, I charged my calvary into the French knights and surrounded them. My Mamluks, Ghulams and Kwharaz got beaten up badly in the exchange, despite the intial charges into the flank/rear. My main army on the hill was crushed by the French Infantry - Order foot soldiers, milita sargeants, Chivalric Spears and CMMAs. Eventually, my reinforcements took a position on a hill and the silly French attacked my postion one unit at a time. Even then, after volleys of arrows and completely surrounding the lone French units, I lost many troops in the exchange. Eventually I won the battle, only because the French attacked my secondary position literally with one unit at a time, I chased their general ( a priority target for my calvary) off the field during the initial calvary battle (my Saracen general was dead soon after) and I had more men than they did. My army of over 5000 lost over 3000 troops, including my 7 star general http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif The French were about 3000 with a 5 star prince. They lost about 1800 in the fight.

Now I have four massive armies of 3000-5000 in western Europe and the French armies on my border are smaller than mine, but still formidable. Before the bloodbath begins, I thought I might seek some advice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kataphraktoi]

The large numbers of Saracen armies make up for the inferior quality of its troops except for the elite ghulams, khwariz cav, etc.

Have you tried a massive missile bombardment (excluding artillery)?

I haven't tried a Saracen army but usaully a massive missile bombardment from foot archers and horse archers wears down the enemy and effect their morale. As a flank I have infantry who protect the missile units in the center, the infantry also act as a screen for heavy cavalry.
With royal knights the best way is to engage them with infantry then charge from a flank(ghulams, khwar)

[Lord Romulous]

i actually find the saracen infantry to be quite good.
one thing to note as you are late in the game have u upgraded the armour and weapons of your troops.

eg armourers workshop etc and blacksmith etc for weapon upgrades. (for weapon upgrades u need to be producing your troops in a provence that has iron and build the approprate buildings i think it is called blacksmith.

as these add defence and attack points they are quite important.

armour is not good in the desert but in the lush grasslands of france it is a must.

if you done this and still having problems the other solutions are

mercenaries

increase your skill level http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif (pause is your friend)

[Kraxis]

The Muslims don't have many good all-purpose units, so you have to make a balanced army. It seems you do, but I noticed that you sent your Saracens into the woods, bad choice. Though cavalry is at a disadvantage in the woods so are spears, next time use your Abyssinians.

Also, the AI armies often lack proper missileunits in good numbers, especially the Catholics. So target their weaker units with your Desert Archers (don't let the enemy hit your Nizaris). Don't fire at the Order Foot, they have too much armour and large numbers for the fire to be effective, MAA though having as good armour are better targets due to their smaller size. Target the cav or foot knights if they have them with the Nizaris once the Desert Archers have run dry.
Lastly try and lure the Catholics out, don't fight on their terms, your men are simply not as strong as them.

[All_the_Sultan's_horses]

I so sympathize with u. the muslims just lack really good all-round troops at higher levels. here's what u can do.
1. Lots of Saracens. these guys can hold up enemies for a very long time, esp with armour upgrades.

2. Khwarazmians. the only heavy cav capable of taking on knights. but even so, always charge from the flank, while the enemy is engaged to the front, and always charge, withdraw and charge repeatedly. knights and chivalric MAA have better melee ability, so dun let yr cav be engaged in drawn out combats. charge, withdraw and charge again. repeat.

3. cannon. once u get these dudes, enemy archers become irrelevant. always deploy them close to the front. cannon will FORCE yr foe to come to u.

[A.Saturnus]

One thing you forget about is arbs Against heavy armor arbs are much more effective than simple archers. Best you replace desert archers with them. Use them mainly to take out heavy cav. Your nizari and Mamluk archers should concentrate on inf.
Sar inf is quiet tough, they can stand even against heavy inf for a while. While the CMAA fight them you can charge their backs with heavy cav or Ghazi (don`t forget they have AP).

[Exile]

Excellent suggestions everyone. I have picked up many important tips and learned some new things about the game. I had no idea Saracens fought with a penalty in the woods, that explains that failed strategy and gives me some hope http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I was trying to fight straight out like I was commanding a byz or Catholic army. I will adjust my tactics to draw the enemy out, use more missiles and artillery (unfortunately I suspect I have a patch bug that cannons are never able to be built in my games), upgrade my troops weapons and armor and make some changes: Arbalesters instead of desert archers - no more matching my Kwhaz in a straight fight against Cath. calvary - hire mercenaries, etc. Last but not least, it's time to polish up my skills with some custom battles. Thnx to all for sharing your wisdom http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Soon all France shall be literate and bathing regularly

[Foreign Devil]

France? Bathing regularly? I laugh at your audacity http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[andrewt]

Don't forget mamluk cavalry. They have AP though their charge and melee is a tad weaker. They will be better than khwarazmiam at dishing out damage against chiv knights and royal knights. They die quickly though. Ghazi, abyssinian and arbalests will be your heavy cav killers. Muwahid foot can also be used as cav killers, whether heavy or light. Saracen infantry suck at killing stuff but last a very long time especially in hold formation. Combine them with arbalests and your flankers.

The Iberian peninsula is very nice. Navarre, Aragon, Leon and Castille all have iron deposits for weapon upgrades.

[Kraxis]

Ahhh... The Mamluke Cavalry.
These guys should not be pitted directly against the heavy knights, rather they should attack the flanks, as they recieve from AP only 2 in attack against them (Armour 7 on cav).
If not facing Armoured enemies they should be deplayed as light cav instead of medium, they are simply not up to fight against strong infantry.
Be careful with them as they can turn the battle against the heavy enemies, but only as long as you hold them with Saracens and flank with the Mamlukes.

[Theodoret]

Abyssinians can be very good if used carefully. The main problem with them is that they are unarmoured, but if you use them in combination with a unit or two of Saracens they can be quite effective. The same goes (to a lesser extent) for Ghazi. I use them like cavalry and avoid frontal attacks whenever possible, instead I use the Saracens to tie up an enemy unit before sneaking the Abyssinians or Ghazi around the back.
I rarely bother with advanced units such as Nizari or Khwarazmian cavalry whenever I play the Egyptians simply because of the high casualties you take. Lower level units are more useful as you can repair them in provinces you have just conquered