View Full Version : An Area not Covered (I think) by TW
OK, this is about (sort of) TW but, this is the best place for this, I think.
I don't believe TW has ever done anything in the chariot ages so I'm wondering if that may or may not be popular. In some ways, it'd be difficult there's really a limited number of possible empires. Later Assyria, the Hittite Empire period, and Egypt co-existed. Judea was there (and possibly Israel - I didn't research those) but it/they would be rebel areas more then likely as they were quite weak. Way too early for the Greek States. With some research, it's possible the Mittites and others might still be plausible kingdoms to use. I think it would be an interesting game but perhaps more limited like Shogun.
Thoughts?
I like it, but the vast majority of customers wouldn't, which is why we are never going to get a Chariot TW. Only hope is mods.
Seamus Fermanagh
05-02-2017, 15:45
OK, this is about (sort of) TW but, this is the best place for this, I think.
I don't believe TW has ever done anything in the chariot ages so I'm wondering if that may or may not be popular. In some ways, it'd be difficult there's really a limited number of possible empires. Later Assyria, the Hittite Empire period, and Egypt co-existed. Judea was there (and possibly Israel - I didn't research those) but it/they would be rebel areas more then likely as they were quite weak. Way too early for the Greek States. With some research, it's possible the Mittites and others might still be plausible kingdoms to use. I think it would be an interesting game but perhaps more limited like Shogun.
Thoughts?
You'd get the Greek states -- but they'd be literally Homeric in character and tech. Chariots were "the thing" in Greece too, at least for the heroes and leaders.
Weren't chariots in the original RTW?
:creep:
Yes but that was a fiction - they were obsolete even in Alexander's time. Egypt was the main user in RTW (there were others like the eastern Asian powers) but they used Greek fighters in the RTW time period - mostly Greek mercenaries as Egyptians weren't allowed in the military. Some Celtic tribes had ceremonial chariots as overly reflected in RTW.
You'd get the Greek states -- but they'd be literally Homeric in character and tech. Chariots were "the thing" in Greece too, at least for the heroes and leaders.
The Greek City States didn't form until centuries after the chariot ages. I think the tribes (Dorians) had and used them but the Athens/Sparta thing was much later. Perhaps the Mycenaeans (which were, as you said, Homeric) but they were and offshoot of the Minoan civilization - possible, but they really didn't react with anyone militarily outside of Greece and western Anatolia. I'm not sure from memory - there may have been some overlap between them and the eastern Med areas. Not at all sure what was west of the Hittites.
The game would likely have to revolve around Sumer and the various peoples of the lower Tigris/Euphrates region I'd think.
Pontus and the Seleucids using scythed chariots wasn't fiction, but yes, Mummy returns Egyptians was really edjy staff.
About the greek polis, I think Seamus mistakenly thought that you were talking about the 9th or 8th century, because of your comment about the neo-Assyrian Empire. I agree that we can't mention any Greek polis before the 9th century BC, although some proto-urban elements began to appear even in 900s, in places like Crete or near ancient Mycenean centers.
Hittites were notorious for using them, they are probably the first to use them, sounds like a fit for a good mod at least
Plus they used them totally different then the Egyptians - more like shock troops to smash a line (they were bigger and carried more soldiers) while the Egyptians used them as an archery platform with light ground troopers running with them for protection.
Pontus and the Seleucids using scythed chariots wasn't fiction, but yes, Mummy returns Egyptians was really edjy staff.
About the greek polis, I think Seamus mistakenly thought that you were talking about the 9th or 8th century, because of your comment about the neo-Assyrian Empire. I agree that we can't mention any Greek polis before the 9th century BC, although some proto-urban elements began to appear even in 900s, in places like Crete or near ancient Mycenean centers.
Yes, true but they were very useful against eastern style ground troops which were more like a mob then a unit. Darius III brought them back after a hundred or so years of non-use against Alexander at Gaugemela and they were cut to pieces after doing little harm (RTW actually handles this well - chariots are useless vs phalanx formations. They were obsolete vs disciplined troops, ie, Greek/Roman/Macedonian.
Eastern style troops aren't always undisciplined, not are western troops always disciplined. For example, scythed chariots had been used very successfully against Greeks in 395 BC by the satrap Pharnabazus, so they were not that obsolete.
There's always exceptions to the rule. Darius III wouldn't even use most of his infantry vs Alexander - he thought them useless and prone to run and feared they'd make his good troops panic too so he relied on his Imortals and a couple of Greek mercenary phalanx formations with a ton of light cavalry. The quality of Greek hoplites varied greatly from city to city and the richer the better as they brought their own equipment to battle.
Plus they used them totally different then the Egyptians - more like shock troops to smash a line (they were bigger and carried more soldiers) while the Egyptians used them as an archery platform with light ground troopers running with them for protection.
Never understood why Egyptian chariots were so feared, all they can do is circle and harass, should be easy enough to put them to a full stop. Archer could fire really fast but still
Me too; if they are in range, so are ground archers. They did fulfill the job that horse archers of the future did, though but were pretty useless in rough terrain.
Just musing, a phalanx can only work on flat terrain, as does a chariot that is of course much faster flanking. If I'm not mistaken the use of chariots completily faded away once the much more mobile Roman formations became the standard. Attacking a Phalanx formwtion must have been suicide but I don't think the Egyptians ever used that against the Hittites. Makes you wonder why their light troops never took the height advwntage to outflank these chariots as they simply can't go there. Just seems odd.
Lordk, saw an interesting docu on Netflix you will probably like it. Easy enough to find, these thing required some serious skill to build. I am a bit sceptical about some things as metals were already available but it's worth watching 'building phaoros chariots'. It doesn't really go in on WHY they were so good thpugh
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