Hate creates its' own net; or truly free speech finds a home

[HopAlongBunny]

The internet.
The Wild West of free speech; or just another liberal conspiracy to narrow debate?

It seems prominent hate groups feel the web just ain't big enough for everyone to flourish.
Daily Stormer and like minded forums have had their hosting pulled and deleted from some services.
Solution: build yer own!
Alt-right and alt-tech take a stab at going it alone:

https://slate.com/technology/2017/08/the-alt-right-wants-to-build-its-own-internet.html

Is this the "bubble of perception" going big time?
"If people can't deal with what we talk about, we'll create our own space-literally."
Necessary evolution of the net? Top-down "guidance" about what will and will not be discussed?

Note: I feel a little uncomfortable even posting about it; am I giving a group of cranks free exposure?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The internet.
The Wild West of free speech; or just another liberal conspiracy to narrow debate?

It seems prominent hate groups feel the web just ain't big enough for everyone to flourish.
Daily Stormer and like minded forums have had their hosting pulled and deleted from some services.
Solution: build yer own!
Alt-right and alt-tech take a stab at going it alone:

https://slate.com/technology/2017/08/the-alt-right-wants-to-build-its-own-internet.html

Is this the "bubble of perception" going big time?
"If people can't deal with what we talk about, we'll create our own space-literally."
Necessary evolution of the net? Top-down "guidance" about what will and will not be discussed?

Note: I feel a little uncomfortable even posting about it; am I giving a group of cranks free exposure?

If they can get the capital to fund it, and then show enough market to maintain it, that is how it should be. Freedom of speech does NOT require any given server owner to offer services to someone they loath. Freedom of speech is there to prevent GOVERNMENT from stifling other viewpoints and/or free expression.

[drone]

Obligatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l3ipKcnYlQ

They have a point about the consolidation of domain hosting, and if they can fund it that's their prerogative. I assume they are smart enough to know that it will be fully infiltrated by the feds...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Obligatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l3ipKcnYlQ

They have a point about the consolidation of domain hosting, and if they can fund it that's their prerogative. I assume they are smart enough to know that it will be fully infiltrated by the feds...

Don't be so sure. They're dumb/ignorant enough to by into the "race" myth despite a century of modern research/medicine noting it as mostly irrelevant.

[drone]

Don't be so sure. They're dumb/ignorant enough to by into the "race" myth despite a century of modern research/medicine noting it as mostly irrelevant.

Judging from the description of the technical people involved in the project, there are going to be many of the Slashdot libertarians working on this. Their hatred and paranoia of the TLAs lead me to my conclusion. :yes:

[rory_20_uk]

In the Bad Old Days, there was an eeeevil concept of societal norms. In the West we have mainly done away with them. And true, they were far from all good. But now we have reached the point of relativism that "good" and "bad" are just two position statements.

Even I find myself thinking "every view should be aired" since surely suppressing lies is a bad thing.

But even Freedom of Speech in the USA is not infinite. And frankly, this along with other corrosive beliefs should be stamped out along with other things such as organised crime / paedophilia etc.

~:smoking:

[Greyblades]

It is the defining grace of the age that complete suppression has been rendered impossible; The internet is the ever expanding frontier, corporate cowardice can no longer shield weak ideologies from competition and pandering to the whims of the perpetually outraged is proving ever more unprofitable.


Freedom of speech is there to prevent GOVERNMENT from stifling other viewpoints and/or free expression.

Oh do stop equating the limits of the first amendment with the principle of free speech every time the issue comes up; one does not define the other and that those moneid few wont be punished for denying a man's ability to broadcast does not make the action or the actor right.

The holocaust was legal, slavery was legal, segregation of was legal. If you use the state as a metric for ethics you'll end up dissapointed.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

It is the defining grace of the age that complete suppression has been rendered impossible; The internet is the ever expanding frontier, corporate cowardice can no longer shield weak ideologies from competition and pandering to the whims of the perpetually outraged is proving ever more unprofitable.



Oh do stop equating the limits of the first amendment with the principle of free speech every time the issue comes up; one does not define the other and that those moneid few wont be punished for denying a man's ability to broadcast does not make the action or the actor right.

The holocaust was legal, slavery was legal, segregation of was legal. If you use the state as a metric for ethics you'll end up dissapointed.

Not the state, just the Constitution.

[Montmorency]

Story from last year (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-white-flight-of-derek-black/2016/10/15/ed5f906a-8f3b-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html?utm_term=.4328fa6d0352), around election time, of how the son of the Stormfront founder Don Black went from white nationalist icon to bleeding heart liberal.

Of interest to our Phil, part of the long transition involved studying medieval European history to a graduate level.

The man's own statement (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/opinion/sunday/why-i-left-white-nationalism.html?mcubz=1).

[CrossLOPER]

Story from last year (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-white-flight-of-derek-black/2016/10/15/ed5f906a-8f3b-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html?utm_term=.4328fa6d0352), around election time, of how the son of the Stormfront founder Don Black went from white nationalist icon to bleeding heart liberal.

Of interest to our Phil, part of the long transition involved studying medieval European history to a graduate level.

The man's own statement (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/opinion/sunday/why-i-left-white-nationalism.html?mcubz=1).

I think it's hilarious how easily his beliefs crumbled as soon as he left his snowflake nazi bubble.

[Montmorency]

I think it's hilarious how easily his beliefs crumbled as soon as he left his snowflake nazi bubble.

I think it's important to point out that it wasn't necessarily quick or easy, the transition having preoccupied his entire undergraduate career.

What I see that it took to leave his movement was:

1. Tension and discomfort in the social environment and on a personal level: "experiencing clear and passionate outrage to what I believed from those I interacted with".
2. A safe space in which to reflect on this tension and finally engage with it alongside friendly people: " many talks with devoted and diverse people there".

If you want to interpret this coarsely, you could say both "social shaming" and "safe spaces" are efficacious, but in synergy.

On the other hand, it's almost certainly not scale-able beyond individual cases.

**

Also, I failed to predict how that MENTION tag would turn out in the last post. I was trying to reach Philippus Flavius Homovallumus; and also let me clarify that the connection is the interest in Medieval history scholarship. not that PVC is or was ever a white nationalist. :bow:

[Husar]

What I do know is that it's very strange/ironic when the guy who creates a white pride webpage has the last name "Black"... :sweatdrop:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Having taught at university for 20 years or so, I can assert that the sea-change in thinking and ignorance reduction that is possible over an undergraduate career is profound.

[Gilrandir]

Having taught at university for 20 years or so, I can assert that the sea-change in thinking and ignorance reduction that is possible over an undergraduate career is profound.

... and resulted in electing Trump.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

... and resulted in electing Trump.

Actually, it is commonly assumed here that Trump did most effectively with those who did not complete a degree. Pew Research (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/)

I am a poster child GOP supporter....and I could not bring myself to vote for that asshat.