Ridiculous game

[Baia]

So I started GA as HRE in early on difficult. Through attacking rebels early on, I expanded out to Lithuania and Kiev. Got rid of France and I decided to develop my empire, ally with everyone I could and trade like its medieval monopoly. Of course Ai must do a suprise attack with Italians around 1210, who have all of 4 mainland provinces +2 islands vs my realm of 20+ provinces, after which of course English cancel alliance with me- after me never fighting with them, sending almost every princess to marry with English. Ok, I say, removing Italians from their jewell provinces leaving them only Tuscany and 2 islands.

I get warned from pope so I stop, leaving heavy garrisons in lands bordering Tuscany. Decade later, after building ships from Flanders and Prussia that extend trade route around England reaching to Gibraltar, I'm brining in around 9000 in profits. And yes Italians are still at war with me despite my sending from princesses to emisaries to cease fire. Ai whether scripted or just plain retarded, attacks Brandenburg with the Polish which results in me eliminating them.

It's 1237 now, English finally got to building ships, launch barque in North Sea. Next turn my ship gets sunk by it, I reload save and attack their ship, sink it and get warned by pope. Fix my trade route look at profits which is less then 2000 f now from tradig with few Spanish and African ports since the English Isles ports are untradable.

3 years later- English launch another ship which sinks after attacking now my stack of 3 ships and I get excommunicated.

The worst of it all is that as good as this game is with the medieval theme, battles, it is so fuked by the retarded ai and strategy mode. Which the more I play the more I see as an after thought with it's lack of most simplest diplomacy options. Nobody expects Europa Universalis level of strategy but simple 'memory' of ai or some way to keep track of relations/alliances between countries would be nice. Even Civilization sequels got it working for fuks sake. I guess most piss off factor is the English attack, it's been said many a time on the boards but I'll reprase; how can a country attack an empire thats many times bigger, stronger, richer? I see those 'you are the richest of all factions' screens and the 'your military force is the largest' every few years, yet ai goes through its retarded scripts and fuks with me.

For TW Rome, may I suggest for devs to do just skirmish mode, don't bother with strategy part. I could care less bout the screens, I'm not getting it to save myself the aggrevation, I'll d/l it on warez.com to see how screwed up the TW series still is. Seriously doubt this will be fixed/addressed in Viking expansion

I guess its over now, dont know what to do, don't want to put up with half assed ai and unless people have a fix for that, I'm uninstalling the fukin game. Oh well, I guess I'll play cmbb or something. And that happened last nite and I was quite pissed so today I'm just venting off:)

[Lord Romulous]

maybe rephrase your comments to include less swearing and less mindless ranting and people will bother replying.

i am now beginning to understand the junior patron scheme.

[pdoan8]

I agree that the Strategy part of MTW can't compare to the level of other "strategy" games such as EU, Civ, ... It's simply because the strategy is not the main part of MTW. MTW strategy is an improve version of the old STW strategy which can't be really called "strategy" at all, interm of "strategy game" AI behaviour standard. So, don't be so mad about the "retarded AI" in MTW.

About the troubles you are having with the AI in your current game, I have a few opinions on that:

- You get excommed because you have such bad behaviour toward the other Catholic factions and the Pope certainly didn't like it. You expand eastward which I expect that you eliminated the Pole and the Hungary. You got rid of the French too. Then, you attack the Engish ship. That is too much of the aggressive acts you've made. Furthermore, it's because you are the strongest empire, the Pope would excomm you to prevent you from expanding into the remaining Catholic land and become too powerful for the Pope to control. Very good thinking on the Pope part.

- The fact that you are the strongest, largest and richest empire would piss of all other factions that are not doing as well as you are. Alliance and mutual survival comes into play when all others look at you as a common threat and they sure will gang up on you. Why be in peace now if they know for sure that you will destroy them in the future? Instead, they all will give you a tough time and hope that your empire would collapse on its own weight some day. They block your trade, they won't trade with you, they harrass your trade ships,... that are all very smart moves, but not quite perfect, of the AI in order to cut short your income so that you can't expand further into their land. If you are short of money, you certainly can't maintain the "largest" army any more, so you will become less of a threat to other factions. It's not a bad strategy after all.

That's my opinion.

[MacGregor]

I've had wierd stuff happen like that with my ships too. Things like one ship killing 8 of mine. The AI is just annoying, after awhile it always becomes everyone vs. YOU. As the HRE I always kill France and then start battling Italy, then the Polish, Danes, Hungarians, and English will always attack me even when we were allied and when it's obvious that I can annihilate them. Diplomacy needs to be better developed and more reliable.

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (MacGregor @ Jan. 13 2003,20:39)]Things like one ship killing 8 of mine.
Were your ships Dromons?

And the enemy commander could have had many stars and a great ship, that way he might be able to defeat you.

[HopAlongBunny]

Note: never leave your ships in a stack; enemy can't attack 8 times in a turn-most you lose is one; a storm might sink a stack but won't sink 8 individual ships http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Gaius Julius]

Quote[/b] (Baia @ Jan. 13 2003,18:05)]how can a country attack an empire thats many times bigger, stronger, richer? I see those 'you are the richest of all factions' screens and the 'your military force is the largest'
Actually, quite easily.
Just because a country is the richest, or has the largest military, doesn't make it immune to attack.
Maybe you have the largest military, but what type of troops does it have?
What about your generalship? Maybe your not the greatest general that ever lived.

It's too bad you feel this way about M:TW, for my money your missing out on a great game. Warts, and all.

[Beelzebub]

Yeah being big doesn't help much if they are clobbered 90% of the time on the field, just means it takes longer to chop down all their army stacks.

[MacGregor]

Guess I will start breaking my ships up. And I would have decent ships, at least equal to the one that was wiping them out, and decent commanders. I would re-load the game and attack with my ships and they'd kill him without loses, but when I let them attack me he'd kill all of them.

[andrewt]

Maybe you really have the 1 attack 0 defense dromons. I suggest keeping ships in stacks. If you don't, the AI will think that those individual ships are really juicy targets and you'll never get a huge trade income that way. If your stack is stronger than the AIs, they don't attack you. If you have a weaker stack, they usually will.

[einar]

Quote[/b] (Baia @ Jan. 13 2003,18:05)]Nobody expects Europa Universalis level of strategy but simple 'memory' of ai or some way to keep track of relations/alliances between countries would be nice.

For TW Rome, may I suggest for devs to do just skirmish mode, don't bother with strategy part. I could care less bout the screens, I'm not getting it to save myself the aggrevation, I'll d/l it on warez.com to see how screwed up the TW series still is. Seriously doubt this will be fixed/addressed in Viking expansion

I guess its over now, dont know what to do, don't want to put up with half assed ai and unless people have a fix for that, I'm uninstalling the fukin game. Oh well, I guess I'll play cmbb or something. And that happened last nite and I was quite pissed so today I'm just venting off:)
MTW isn't Europa Universalis or Civilization, it is a different game. The strategic and diplomatic part of MTW is minimal, MTW is a war game, its main feature is the 3D real time medieval battles. That's all. I like this game, it is very original, a different way of playing wargames. STW was the first and a very original game, MTW is a better STW. If you want more strategy, you can buy EU2, Hearts of Iron, etc.

[Bob the Insane]

I agree, this is a War Game with extras not a Strategy game with extras...

Thus the primary element to judge is the battels, the strategy element gives a background and a point to the battles... You don't fight a battle because some text tells you too, or because you have to win to get to the next level, you fight or retreat as part of an overall strategy..

On the otherhand I don't think that anyone can argue with the concept of what this game could have been if given a deeper and more robust strategy element.

[einar]

Quote[/b] (Bob the Insane @ Jan. 14 2003,05:21)]what this game could have been if given a deeper and more robust strategy element.
...the best strategy-wargame ever made...

[jrexchandler]

I think that uninstalling the game is a good idea. After that, go look for another board to post on. The, after that perhaps you can douse your MTW CD in gasoline and throw it through a window at CA That'll show em'.

Rex

[Baia]

Like I said, it's an excellent game turned into skirmish mode only thanks to the ai in strat map. Lack of competent ai in the strat part doesnt give the player the satisfaction of seeing the empire grow, doesn't have that 'one more turn' feeling that made Civilization so popular. In latest Civ game, ai nations just keeps track of things that affect relationships between other nations.

I don't expect nor want the level of strategy like other games gave us since the development time could be too long. But what's done is done, we can only hope for next installment of Rome TW to push the series along. Noticed a thread on suggestions which no doubt will turn into features and requests of things that'll never make it in the game.

My suggestion is just to have a simple 'relationship' page for other factions. Positive decisions will impact the diplomacy with given faction in a good way so that factions become friendly and have a pact together say when alliances mean something. And so on.

Now I can just imagine if after decades of my princesses marrying with the English princes would develop some sort of friendly status between our nations and there wouldn't even be a chance of their boat attacking mine.

Oh well, time will tell what will become of Rome TW. I'm happy for CA and their winning of Emma along with other awards, it was great fun developing my empires and fighting for power, but all good things must come to an end I guess.

[Foreign Devil]

Quote[/b] (Baia @ Jan. 14 2003,19:11)]I don't expect nor want the level of strategy like other games gave us since the development time could be too long.
Really??? Then why do you keep comparing them? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

I for one enjoy the strategy portion of this game. Sure, it's not perfect, but it gets the job done.

[ToranagaSama]

Quote[/b] (Baia @ Jan. 13 2003,19:05)]

Quote[/b] ]I get warned from pope so I stop, leaving heavy garrisons in lands bordering Tuscany.

OK, so you "stop", but you did not "withdraw" as the Pope tells you to do. So, guess what? Excommunication What's so stupid about the AI?


Quote[/b] ]It's 1237 now, English finally got to building ships, launch barque in North Sea. Next turn my ship gets sunk by it,

I don't get your point?

The English launch a "single" ship. It attacks your "single" ship, and you lose. Your ship sunk. Again, what's so stupid about the AI?


Quote[/b] ]I reload save and attack their ship, sink it and get warned by pope.

If the AI is so incredibly stupid, why are you CHEATING??
If re-loading is your modis operandi, then ahhh the AI must be a bit better than you allude.


Quote[/b] ]...but simple 'memory' of ai or some way to keep track of relations/alliances between countries would be nice....

Ahhhhh, you know that Icon with the Shaking Hands", have you tried clicking it???

Question: What level of Difficulty are you playing?

Other than the above, your quite right the AI needs loads of improvements, but despite its shortcommings the Total War series is an incredible game. Though its certainly, a game in which you get out of it what you put into it. A little imagination goes a long way.

[Acronym]

The whole reason I bout STW was the battle part. I do like risk and the diplomacy was so simple it might as well be risk, but the battles is what made this series.

No other game simulates ancient battles like the TW games, in real time. It's not perfect, but name any other game out there that gives us such a clear picture on what a battle may have looked like. The tactical aspect of TW games is revolutionary IMO, the next closest games would be the MYTH series, but in TW we get whole armies

[Beelzebub]

Yes the battles are important, but most people enjoy both, so it wouldn't hurt to add more depth to the strategy side.

[Baia]

Agree Acronym, battle is where it's at. Did you play Myth 3 and if so how did u like it, I tried it a while back and it was ok, just like pretorians I dont like the camera being forced to look only from certian angles.

ToranagaSama your post is so stupid it actually made me laugh, I'll take some time to reply why, but I'm sure it'll be a waste.

I get warned from pope so I stop

Did you even read the paragraph above it? It refers to my attack of 3 Italian provinces after they attacked me, my point was how can they do that with their puny army. Pope warning is the same as always. I STOP meant I stopped with these provinces which were under my total control and did not proceed with another attack.

It's 1237 now, English finally got to building ships, launch barque in North Sea. Next turn my ship gets sunk by it

Same as above with Italians, did you even read my post or decided to babble about a sentence you noticed?

That referred to my good friends, the English, same English I wrote about sending my princesses to marry with the English lords to secure my political ties. Are you aware of such thing in real life? securing alliances with marriages between nations. I must've sent about 6 princesses to marry with the English. My point was that despite that, the English built a ship and attacked my ship in North Sea.

My reloading of savegame was to see if the English get excommunicated if they attack my ships turn after turn, which they didn't.

And last "Ahhhhh, you know that Icon with the Shaking Hands", have you tried clicking it???"

WOW you're genius thanks for the tip ahole. Once again you missed my paragraph and the whole post, which referred to faction ai keeping track of things.. such as- my sending of princesses to marry English lords. What I have in mind is that after such marriage two nations would be closer together, enjoying trade, exchange of ideas, perhaps technology and all the other things that come between allies. Hand screen you talk about is just simple list who is fighting or allied.

I hope this post got through to you, explained things to you. I'll be honest, first I hoped you lived somewhere where english language is the barrier but hitting your profile refuted that, location=usa.

In this case: You're reading skills are somewhat at a 6th grade level, you completely lack paragraph comprehension skills and if you are a kid, great- have fun with games.
But scary thing is you might be older in which case I'd like to stomp on you few times with my combat boots, crush your testicles with them (hehe ouch) so that you may not pollute the rest of humanity with your genes. Seriously consider tutoring because you will surely fail any sort of civil exam which involves a reading comprehension part whether it's a post office or sanitation test.

Try to read the paragraph completely to grasp the writer's idea. Reread it few times. Keep in mind main points of the text, dont jump to conclusions and dont add anything. Go to your local bookstore and get some sort of 'test preparation book' for civil exam. Good luck.

[rasoforos]

The AI attacks my single ship and this makes it stupid
When my empire is dominating the world the others join forces and attack me instead of waiting peacefully for their elimination , and this is unrealistic
The AI is stupid but i have to reload to win


....well no comments really http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ( its not a piss everyone off thread like the one with the elite woodsmen is it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif )

[jas]

Quote[/b] (Baia @ Jan. 14 2003,22:37)].. in which case I'd like to stomp on you few times with my combat boots, crush your testicles with them (hehe ouch) so that you may not pollute the rest of humanity with your genes.
Hmm, sounds to me like "Posts containing any generally objectionable material: knowingly .. abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, .. threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."

Where's a moderator when you need one?

Anyway, this is obviously a ridiculous game. I couldn't believe it when the Byzantines attacked three of my provinces just because I left them unguarded. Its not like I'd been at war with them before or anything. And they sank a ship. Hurt my feelings that did. And the Pope didn't even try to stop them ..

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Sandy-San]

I think Baia is getting a bit unfairly flamed here, just for daring to criticise the game (although you might want to tone down the language Baia...)

the ai does do stupid things - suicidal attacks from long term allies, and such. recently I've been attacked by the one-province hungarians - i've never attacked them, they maybe had 1 unit of royal knights they sent against a far superior force, numerically and quality-wise, and then they called off the attack. his pointless aggression caused another 2 factions to cancel their alliances with me.

the sicilians have twice attacked my ships. again, i've never shown any aggression to them, in fact for a long, long time we were allies, i relieved sieges on his provinces maybe 2-3 times, married several times etc. its a non-playable faction, it doesn't even have GA points to score, so why attack? there is no motive, no indication of why, anything why oh why oh why...

you can't separate the tactical from the strategic, as some are suggesting. as a simple wargame MTW would be pretty shallow, and the point, as ever, is to be able to make tactical decisions as to where and when to fight, then execute your strategy. if you bought the game just for battles then fine, enjoy, but most of us didn't.

of course, the AI can't be totally predictable, there would be no point to that, but the alliances especially seem to be next to useless. some sort of indicator of how strong an alliance is would help, maybe, but it does appear that the AI scripting (right word?) overrules alliances and even common sense far too often.

MTW brings in a ton of new elements that STW didn't have, hopefully by RTW some of the things that we complain about here will be ironed out, but in the mean time, there are bits of MTW that are frustrating and don't make a lot of sense.

[LovelyHaji]

The diplomacy was my biggest gripe in Shogun as well. I couldn't believe that you could break any alliance you felt like, without being considered without honour and treated as such.

No-one's demanding a fully fledged model of diplomacy like in EU2 - the game would take forever

What is wanted though, is a system of alliances and diplomacy that actually means something. I play all my MTW games as though everyone is my enemy. I garrison all my borders heavily, depite any number of royal marriages and an 80year alliance. Taking alliances seriously would mean me losing the game. This just isn't right. If you're going to put a feature in a game, it should be done properly.

[rasoforos]

Sany-San you say that the AI sometimes looks suicidical of illogical but ask this question to yourself ' does this illogical decision work well for the AI?' . i mean if a small 1 province faction , facing elimination, attacks you while you are the strongest , it has a good chance to drive other stronger factions to a war against you , this way there is a hope you will not be able to repell every attack and the small faction might get a province or two ...or three. Moreover , about the sicilians attacking ships with 'no reason' , they do that but i find it logical since sea supremacy is their only hope to survive even if the odds are against them. moreover they bring you at a loss/loss situation since a prolonged naval war will kill your commerce. this makes people not only face naval defeats but they beg for peace afterwards.

[Sandy-San]

ok - first point last - it was a GA game (not conquest), I wasn't threatening the sicillians, they were my allies, both of us were making gains against the almos, me in spain, him in north africa. I'd saved his provices several times over. his empire was expanding because I was able to use my sea lanes to launch crusades against the almos... the AI's actions make no sense at all. they don't gain GA points, they don't gain new provinces, they disrupt their own trade and face my wrath (wooooo&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif. maybe if the sicilians had done that in conjunction with another faction, who attacked at the same time it would make sense, but it didn't.

second point -

"i mean if a small 1 province faction , facing elimination, attacks you while you are the strongest , it has a good chance to drive other stronger factions to a war against you"

i disagree. just because the other factions broke their alliances with me, it doesn't mean that they will actually attack me too. the two that broke alliances don't even share land borders with me, and one faction chose to break its alliance with the aggressor instead.

my example was the hungarians. they have 1 landlocked province. they were not at war with me, in fact, even if 2-3 other ai factions ganged up, they weren't going to break my well-defended borders in a hurry. the hungarian province also bordered rebels, germans and egyptians - all of whom were much weaker than me. why start a fight with the biggest power around? ask yourself:
given the difference in military strength was the AI going to win against me? not likely.
Would all other factions automatically side with Hungary against me? maybe the AI is cheating, but its got no way of knowing they would, even if that benefitted hungary in the long term.
was i openly threatening Hungary? i had a large force on its border, but i hadn't attacked any other factions in the whole game, only defended and counter-attacked. (I suspect the AI doesn't register this - it should)
Could it concievably win against any of its other neighbours? better bet than trying it on with a 'superpower'.
what does it gain from attacking me? it wasn't attacking a GA Hungarian homeland, so no direct point benefit, some other factions are now neutral to me, and Hungary is going to get twatted.

now if they had resorted to assasination against me, maybe it would have worked, and it would have made a lot more sense than what actually happened (btw any cheats to see enemy spies and assasins moving about anyone, just out of curiosity)

i know its dull if the AI isn't aggressive, but especially in a GA game the AI just acts in an unrealistic and downright stupid fashion as far as sneaky attacks against the player faction are concerned.

sorry for the length of this post, but some people seem to defend the AI no matter how idiotic it gets.

[bakdal]

I see many discussions in one at this topic. A little response to some of it:

"Battle game vs. strategy game"

Well, with both elements, I guess we'll make it whatever we want to. Battle enthusiasts enjoy the battle field, and take lesser notice of micro management. And vice versa. The elegancy of MTW (and thought about improvements) in my view, is clearly to balance these two elements. Purely strategy - play Civ. Purely battle - play....something else (I'm NOT the hardcore battle guy&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I enjoy the way the two elements are reliant of each other, and in my "perfect TW game", they would evolve to become complementary.


"AI" (Do see the movie, btw)

Though I'm still very inexperienced, I can tell from both own games and the discussions in this forum, that future patches, editions and games like RTW, ought to have a much better, improved and more sofisticated AI. No doubt. The question is in which direction, and with which consequences for the entire game play. Regarding the latter I see lots of mod opportunities as nessecary.


"Strat map and diplomacy"

I believe the game could be better balanced, by improving the strat map, both in ways of importance for the game and in ways of complexity. Improved diplomacy is dicussed elsewhere. I'm actually not talking about more micro management, but more strings in the strategic set up. Here's just a thought, or an illustrative example:
How about a bar for each region, showing the populations view on which sphere being the most influencing? It could consist of politics, religion, culture and perhaps military, or what ever. It inflicts both ways: The more you lay your strategy after the populations view, the more bonuses (loyalty, trade...), but, it's also possible to change the populations view, though difficult.
Another aspect of this could be consequenses of conquered territory. Say, I as byzantine conquer all of the middle east, and say that the "political-religious-culture" bar is significant different in that region. I could then choose a different government type for that region. Simply declaring a number of regions a "protectorat" or the like. Foreign policy and military action is still a "central matter", but economic development os partially ruled local. There could be added a lot to this, but I think (or hope) the point is clear.

All of this to say to the developers (and to the participants of this discussion): Make it possible to individually create your own set up. Create more on both battle field, but especially on the strategic and diplomatic front. Then enable mods or "game set up options" on a large scale.

What we want from the game, especially for the future development, simply goes in different directions, and are not comparable.

That's it,

Bakdal

[Daveybaby]

Realism vs Challengin

There are always problems in turn based strategy games against an AI, regardless of its 'intelligence', because there is a major contradiction in the way the AI should behave, compared to that of a human player (which, unfortunately is not an option in MTW).

In other words: do you want the AI to put up as much of a challenge as a human player would, or do you want it to be 'realistic'? Do you want it to act as if its a real medieval king contolling a real kingdom, or act as a real player playing a computer game purely to win? Unfortunately you can't have it both ways.

If a kingdom which up until now has been your best friend suddenly attacks you out of the blue, then you could claim the game is either stupid or broken, and has made a mockery out of any efforts at diplomacy with the AI (a complaint which has been levelled many times at MTW). BUT: This is exactly the sort of thing you should expect a human player to do, i.e. wait until your back is turned and then stab you in it.

[ToranagaSama]

Quote[/b] (Baia @ Jan. 14 2003,23:37)]Agree Acronym, battle is where it's at. Did you play Myth 3 and if so how did u like it, I tried it a while back and it was ok, just like pretorians I dont like the camera being forced to look only from certian angles.

ToranagaSama your post is so stupid it actually made me laugh, I'll take some time to reply why, but I'm sure it'll be a waste.

I get warned from pope so I stop

Did you even read the paragraph above it? It refers to my attack of 3 Italian provinces after they attacked me, my point was how can they do that with their puny army. Pope warning is the same as always. I STOP meant I stopped with these provinces which were under my total control and did not proceed with another attack.

It's 1237 now, English finally got to building ships, launch barque in North Sea. Next turn my ship gets sunk by it

Same as above with Italians, did you even read my post or decided to babble about a sentence you noticed?

That referred to my good friends, the English, same English I wrote about sending my princesses to marry with the English lords to secure my political ties. Are you aware of such thing in real life? securing alliances with marriages between nations. I must've sent about 6 princesses to marry with the English. My point was that despite that, the English built a ship and attacked my ship in North Sea.

My reloading of savegame was to see if the English get excommunicated if they attack my ships turn after turn, which they didn't.

And last "Ahhhhh, you know that Icon with the Shaking Hands", have you tried clicking it???"

WOW you're genius thanks for the tip ahole. Once again you missed my paragraph and the whole post, which referred to faction ai keeping track of things.. such as- my sending of princesses to marry English lords. What I have in mind is that after such marriage two nations would be closer together, enjoying trade, exchange of ideas, perhaps technology and all the other things that come between allies. Hand screen you talk about is just simple list who is fighting or allied.

I hope this post got through to you, explained things to you. I'll be honest, first I hoped you lived somewhere where english language is the barrier but hitting your profile refuted that, location=usa.

In this case: You're reading skills are somewhat at a 6th grade level, you completely lack paragraph comprehension skills and if you are a kid, great- have fun with games.
But scary thing is you might be older in which case I'd like to stomp on you few times with my combat boots, crush your testicles with them (hehe ouch) so that you may not pollute the rest of humanity with your genes. Seriously consider tutoring because you will surely fail any sort of civil exam which involves a reading comprehension part whether it's a post office or sanitation test.

Try to read the paragraph completely to grasp the writer's idea. Reread it few times. Keep in mind main points of the text, dont jump to conclusions and dont add anything. Go to your local bookstore and get some sort of 'test preparation book' for civil exam. Good luck.
Dude, perhaps if you were a bit more articulate, then your post would have been easier to comprehend, but I guess one does one's best, doesn't one.

It appeared you were incredulous, that the Pope ex-communiated you. In your post, you cite numerious incidences to cause ex-communications. Yet, you did nothing other than "stop" to remedy the situation. If you had READ the message regarding ex-communication, then you would have noticed that the Pope, not only requires you to "stop", but also to WITHDRAW You read that didn't you?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif


Quote[/b] ]Did you even read the paragraph above it? It refers to my attack of 3 Italian provinces after they attacked me, my point was how can they do that with their puny army. Pope warning is the same as always.

I do not believe I addressed this.


Quote[/b] ]I STOP meant I stopped with these provinces which were under my total control and did not proceed with another attack.

As I stated above, this does not meet the Pope's requirement.


Quote[/b] ]It's 1237 now, English finally got to building ships, launch barque in North Sea. Next turn my ship gets sunk by it

Yes, I did muddle through the inarticulation.

As you stated previously, and above, the English built a ship and sank your ship, what's odd about this, explain please. The fact that you sent numerous princesses to ally, one can only presume they were unsuccessful, as you do not and did not state if they were, leaving one to assume. Assume what? I'm not sure. I take from the above attitude of this latest post, that you cannot understand why the English attacked you (whether by ship or otherwise) cause your Faction is so big, mighty and rich. I discerned that to be the general point, but is that, also, the point regarding the ships?


Quote[/b] ]My reloading of savegame was to see if the English get excommunicated if they attack my ships turn after turn, which they didn't.

Ahhh, sorry, my extra-sensory-perception isn't working. If that's what you meant then, why didn't you simply say that; or are we to presume that as well.

I can't be bothered to re-read and comprehend your original post, so I'll ask, just prior to the English attack, what was your state? Had you already been ex-communicated by the Pope?

If so, then why would the English be ex-communicated?

Second, were the English allied with the Pope? Were you allied with the Pope, it would seem not. If the English were and you not, then the English do not get ex-communicated. Simple.

I could go on with differing scenarios, but it would be tedious. The lack of detailed information describing your complete situation is stunning and leaves for a great deal of assumption.


Quote[/b] ]WOW you're genius thanks for the tip ahole. Once again you missed my paragraph and the whole post, which referred to faction ai keeping track of things.. such as- my sending of princesses to marry English lords. What I have in mind is that after such marriage two nations would be closer together, enjoying trade, exchange of ideas, perhaps technology and all the other things that come between allies. Hand screen you talk about is just simple list who is fighting or allied.


Quote[/b] ]...but simple 'memory' of ai or some way to keep track of relations/alliances between countries would be nice....

Excuse me Shakespere, but where in your original post did you define what "things" meant to YOU? As you state, above, you said "keeping track of things", at present the AI DOES keep track of THINGS

To be PRECISE, "simple" "relations/alliances between countries" Duhhh...click on the Icon with the Shaking Hands. If you meant something else, then learn to express your meaning properly.

Now, to the entirety of your post, please try to FULLY articulate yourself in such a way as to be un-ambiguous. Your post is filled with inarticulated presumptious points of view.

BTW, dude, a quarter of the way through your post I looked under your icon to see where you are from; seeing nothing I made the PRESUMPTION that English was not your first language and continued to muddle through, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered. I think it telling that you fail to so enlighten everyone of your origins.

JFYI, since you mentioned the 6th grade, at that grade level according to the National Standardized Tests of the time my reading comprehension and writing level scored as that of a College Senior. Not a boast, just a fact.

Since you have now pissed me off, lets take a look at your original post (I didn't find any need to go beyond the first two paragraphs:


Quote[/b] ]So I started GA as HRE in early on difficult. Through attacking rebels early on, I expanded out to Lithuania and Kiev. Got rid of France and I decided to develop my empire, ally with everyone I could and trade like its medieval monopoly. Of course Ai must do a suprise attack with Italians around 1210, who have all of 4 mainland provinces +2 islands vs my realm of 20+ provinces, after which of course English cancel alliance with me- after me never fighting with them, sending almost every princess to marry with English. Ok, I say, removing Italians from their jewell provinces leaving them only Tuscany and 2 islands.

I get warned from pope so I stop, leaving heavy garrisons in lands bordering Tuscany. Decade later, after building ships from Flanders and Prussia that extend trade route around England reaching to Gibraltar, I'm brining in around 9000 in profits. And yes Italians are still at war with me despite my sending from princesses to emisaries to cease fire. Ai whether scripted or just plain retarded, attacks Brandenburg with the Polish which results in me eliminating them.

There exists not a single gramatically correct sentence and barely a complete sentence. Hmmm...just a thought, is your ISP charging you by the word? Perhaps that's the problem or is it, simply, the ignorance of your youth?

Lastly, learn one lesson to carry through life, the reader should never be left to discern the writer's meaning or intention. It is the writer's responsibility to communicate his/her thoughts effectively to the reader. Unless intended, ambiguity is the writer's enemy.

Excuse me, it just occurred to me that you must be an Alumnus of The Trent Lott School of English, in which case all is explained. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[FesterShinetop]

Very nice Tora And you kept it polite as well. I am impressed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
See Baia, that's how it can be done as well

[Syterion]

Daveybaby has got it right- People are not rational. Real People do not keep friendships. People desire power. People do not like to share. That is human nature. You can say that that is not like you are, but then you are either (a)lying or (b)extremely in the minority. And, those kind of people do not get to power.

Medieval is more realistic than we want it. Humans are ruthless dominators. Get used to it.

[Acronym]

Campaign aside, I've had easier battles against some players online than a normal difficulty custom battle vs the comp. Even many ancient armies and civilizations had piss-poor leadership that dug their own grave, and would probably lose to an easy comp in MTW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[starkhorn]

Just regarding the point about it being stupid for the AI to attack the largest empire on the map (which happens to be controlled by the player).

Well I do remember on the old totalwar.com forum about this scenario actually being put in by the developers. i.e. if your empire reaches a certain size then everyone gangs up on you. The reason that this 'feature' was put into the game was to satisfy some complaints from STW that SP wasn't a big enough challenge. Basically in STW, if you controlled had of Japan then you had won....no way that the AI could stop you from there and you could take them out one at a time.

Well people complained that there wasn't enough challenge in this with CA acknowledging this point and they added civil wars, massive rebellions and the AI factions ganging up on you.

Anyway, I wish the old totalwar forum board was still as I would like to find that thread as it was quite interesting.

Also one other point that I noticed when the AI factions gang up on you. It always seems to be Allied factions that attack you. Example,

I'm at war with Sicilians who are allied with the Byz. After a while I was attack by the Byz. The Byz were allied with the french who then attacked me a few years later. THe French were allied with the HRE and they attacked me....etc,etc

Unsure if it's related but something to try to notice when that sort of thing happens.

[Daveybaby]

Hehe, i've definitely noticed that happen a few times. If the diplomatic relationships become enough of a spaghetti mess, then its like a domino effect. After being at peace for dozens of years you can find yourself at war with 90% of the world within 5 years, just because the french (say) decide to attack you.

[Sandy-San]

agreed davey-baby and syterion - yep of course in MP map play a human player is going to be low-down and devious, and quite rightly so - but the fact remains that low-down, sneaky whatever, no human with one province is going to attack the biggest opponent on his own without some sort of cunning plan - like ganging up with everyone else, or a massive assasination/inquisition drive or something that gives them a chance - but the AI constantly shows its limitations by making sneak attacks that have no benefit. I know its AI, its limited in what it can do, that 'realistic' behaviour might not appeal to everyone and it has to be challenging, but (even on normal) i've seen this illogical behaviour just a bit too often...

...and it makes me mad http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif guess we'll have to wait and see what happens with RTW

[el_slapper]

Tora : I don't follow Baia's statements, but your rant on its way to speak english seems not fair from my point of view. According to its pseudo, he might very well be a non-native english speaker. I'd say he's portuguese speaking - I could be wrong.

Myself is French-speaking. I can EASILY understand that people on that planet might have difficulties speaking or writing English. That is tolerance. I've seen an Algonquin indian trying to communicate in a french forum. He was hard to understand, but, by the hell, I won't blame him for that. I'm pretty sure I made mistakes in that post, and I don't even try to post in German(even if I cas speak somewhat). Shall I get hanged for that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ???

[Cazbol]

Quote[/b] (HopAlongBunny @ Jan. 13 2003,21:03)]Note: never leave your ships in a stack; enemy can't attack 8 times in a turn-most you lose is one; a storm might sink a stack but won't sink 8 individual ships http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I must say I disagree with this advice. The goal must be to win the sea battles rather than lengthen the time it takes your ememies to sink all your ships. Stacking ships means they'll fight as a team. A storm should not sink whole stacks. I just lost a single ship from a 3 ship stack to a storm. Stack the ships and mix different ship types in your fleets.


As for illogical decisions on the AI's part, I think everyone can see it to some degree. However, claiming that the weaker should never attack the stronger is something I don't agree with. Then the game might as well be over once someone becomes the biggest.

Historically the European nations would gang up the big ones to keep the balance. Alliances were also anything but sacred. If it didn't suit you anymore you'd accuse you ally of something and cancel it, after which he'd be your new best enemy. When the French inherited influence over Spain most other European nations attacked them and forced them to give up the claims. When the Habsburg empire became all dominating, they found they had to fight more or less constant wars on all borders. Their foes were all weaker but still the empire declined. The game seems to try to incorporate this effect but unfortunately this sometimes leads to strange and unwise decisions. All in all I find the strategic AI flawed but enjoyable and therefore satisfactory.

[ToranagaSama]

Quote[/b] (Sandy-San @ Jan. 16 2003,09:43)]agreed davey-baby and syterion - yep of course in MP map play a human player is going to be low-down and devious, and quite rightly so - but the fact remains that low-down, sneaky whatever, no human with one province is going to attack the biggest opponent on his own without some sort of cunning plan - like ganging up with everyone else, or a massive assasination/inquisition drive or something that gives them a chance - but the AI constantly shows its limitations by making sneak attacks that have no benefit. I know its AI, its limited in what it can do, that 'realistic' behaviour might not appeal to everyone and it has to be challenging, but (even on normal) i've seen this illogical behaviour just a bit too often...

...and it makes me mad http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif guess we'll have to wait and see what happens with RTW
Quite right regarding the AI, but Humans are just as dumb. Take for example, Saddam Huessain (sp?) and Iraq's attack upon Kuwait; and/or Al Quieda's (sp?) attack upon the US, as well as MANY other instances throughout history.

The first case being rather stupid, and the second arguably stupid and arguably smart.

The thing with the AI is that cause of its limitations its just doesn't have any followup to its seemingly insane attacks. Such is the limit of technology, one can only hope and wait for progress.

[ToranagaSama]

Quote[/b] (el_slapper @ Jan. 16 2003,11:06)]Tora : I don't follow Baia's statements, but your rant on its way to speak english seems not fair from my point of view. According to its pseudo, he might very well be a non-native english speaker. I'd say he's portuguese speaking - I could be wrong.

Myself is French-speaking. I can EASILY understand that people on that planet might have difficulties speaking or writing English. That is tolerance. I've seen an Algonquin indian trying to communicate in a french forum. He was hard to understand, but, by the hell, I won't blame him for that. I'm pretty sure I made mistakes in that post, and I don't even try to post in German(even if I cas speak somewhat). Shall I get hanged for that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ???
Ahhhhhhhhh......

Did I attack him or did he attack ME??

Did I broach the subject of ENGLISH comprehension and writing skill or did HE??

Helllooooo.

I believe you to be quite correct in that English is NOT his first language. In such a case, it would be ridiculous to PRESUME that one is capable of expressing oneself in a second language to an equal degree as one's first language.

Prudence requires such a person to accept the probablity that there may be some mis-communication, and to address an issue from that perspective.

The individual in question made no such effort. Instead, the individual choose to become rather abrasive, and then preceded to attack MY English language proficiency and hold his own English skills as superior Since English is not YOUR first language, you may be at a disadvantage in realizing this, along with the, obvious, fact that my English written language skills are at a VERY high level. His skills, in comparison, plainly, are QUITE poor, despite his incongruous self-perception.

Objectively, given English to be his second language, one can reasonbly view his skills to be RELATIVELY quite impressive; BUT the true reality is that he is inarticulatively presumptious in his writing and RUDE and imprudent in his attitude. While one can excuse the latter, there is NO excuse for the later.

I can appreciate your sensitivity to the language issue, but you do need to be speaking with him, not to me. My "rant" as you put it was in direct response to the idiocy he spouted. Do you agree that his "rant" directed toward me was idiocy, don't you? From you viewpoint, do you find a problem with my original (reply) post in this thread? Can you justify his (reply) post?

[Red Emperor the Invincible]

Quote[/b] (pdoan8 @ Jan. 13 2003,20:05)]I agree that the Strategy part of MTW can't compare to the level of other "strategy" games such as EU, Civ, ... It's simply because the strategy is not the main part of MTW. MTW strategy is an improve version of the old STW strategy which can't be really called "strategy" at all, interm of "strategy game" AI behaviour standard. So, don't be so mad about the "retarded AI" in MTW.

About the troubles you are having with the AI in your current game, I have a few opinions on that:

- You get excommed because you have such bad behaviour toward the other Catholic factions and the Pope certainly didn't like it. You expand eastward which I expect that you eliminated the Pole and the Hungary. You got rid of the French too. Then, you attack the Engish ship. That is too much of the aggressive acts you've made. Furthermore, it's because you are the strongest empire, the Pope would excomm you to prevent you from expanding into the remaining Catholic land and become too powerful for the Pope to control. Very good thinking on the Pope part.

- The fact that you are the strongest, largest and richest empire would piss of all other factions that are not doing as well as you are. Alliance and mutual survival comes into play when all others look at you as a common threat and they sure will gang up on you. Why be in peace now if they know for sure that you will destroy them in the future? Instead, they all will give you a tough time and hope that your empire would collapse on its own weight some day. They block your trade, they won't trade with you, they harrass your trade ships,... that are all very smart moves, but not quite perfect, of the AI in order to cut short your income so that you can't expand further into their land. If you are short of money, you certainly can't maintain the "largest" army any more, so you will become less of a threat to other factions. It's not a bad strategy after all.

That's my opinion.
Perfect http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif how about AI making cease fire request and next turn attack you,,, repeatedly for ten time....AI r bad human,,,but do have good sense of human existence and of humor too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[jas]

Quote[/b] (el_slapper @ Jan. 16 2003,10:06)]Tora : I don't follow Baia's statements, but your rant on its way to speak english seems not fair from my point of view. According to its pseudo, he might very well be a non-native english speaker. I'd say he's portuguese speaking - I could be wrong.
It's not Baia's English that bothers me but his threats of violence and expressed wish to annihilate Tora's genetic line. Since he hasn't responded further hopefully he's been moderated with extreme prejudice.

And yes, the AI lacks in some departments. Strategically it is obviously not as sharp as EU or even Civ. I'm a big fan of the strategic game but quite aware of its short-comings and very keen to see improvements. That doesn't mean that those who defend it should be exterminated.

[Naagi]

Hey Toranagasama you misspelled reasonably. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Naagi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Lord Of Storms]

It seems you are getting angry at the AI for issuing you some challenges .I think you should ahve made your point after you cooled down ,the swaring was uncalled for http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif .Now the AI does do things at random to make the game challenging if we just went along and conquered everyone traded everything and all went our way I do not see the challenge . So I say cool off try playing one of the best RTS games around and enjoy

[kaasbris]

I agree with Baia, just because I am also great fan of MTW.
The more I like game, the more I ask.
Having said that, there's still big problem in MTW, I believe.

After learning curve, expert mode became piece of cake.
To make game playable, I had to force myself to adapt "iron man rule."

1. I didn't make spies. As enemy provinces had already enough revolts.
2. I didn't make merchant, just trading post only. As AI don't know how to trade. I just wanted to reduce my "unfair" trade advantage.
3. I didn't try unrealistic trade route i.e. trade from Livonia through to Kiev by setting ships around continent. same reason as above.
4. I didn't make alliances with all factions, as it is possible at the beginning. It make game boring while I can beat anyone after securing fund by setting trade.
5. I didn't kill any dumb crown prince, as it's challeging.

Besides above, I tried not to make any "unfair" action against stupid AI.

But I had to give up all my effort as AI still couldn't compete enough..well, also I am tired of restricting myself.

Some said MTW is wargame with strategic element, which I agree. But problem is it's hard to fight fairly. Human knows when to fight, when to withdrow, while AI don't. With a little thought, odds are always for human. This isn't fun at all.

Baia's words are what I was talking myself. I just didn't post as I thought it's too rude =) But I agree with him.
CA tried to make great game, which I appreciate. but they failed. I hope they don't fool themselves by accepting only praise not an advice.

[cugel]

As far as the AI attacking your ships there have been numerous discussions in the Dungeon regarding AI behavior sets. The reason the AI does this is that it simply doesn't calculate the TOTAL odds (i.e. the total number of ships possessed by each faction), it merely checks for whether it has a local superiority or sometimes even equality in a particular sea zone. It also pays attention to defending its home waters and doesn't allow the player to keep a ship in those waters for any length of time, if it can prevent it. For England the "home waters" are the Channel, for Spain Costa Verde and for Egypt the Nile Coast, for example. If you place a single ship in any of these home waters that faction will generally attack you, regardless of alliance affiliation. It will do this unless you maintain a numerical superiority (stacked - not spread out into individual fleets) in those waters. It doesn't seem to do this to the other AI factions, only the player's. You can see this for yourself. If you keep ahead of the AI by adding more ships to its home waters zone to counter its build-up, it sees this as a threat. If it can't outbuild you, sometimes it will quickly shift some of its ships to a nearby sea zone to gain a numerical advantage there. If you don't counter this it will attack there next turn. By carefully monitoring the situation, keeping a numerical superiority everwhere, especially in critical "home waters" zones for each faction, you can generally (but not always) prevent the AI attacking your ships (when you're at peace with that faction).

The failure of the AI to look at the total picture, taking overall faction strength into account, is only 1 of the numerous AI shortcomings in the game, the worst of which is the inability of the AI factions to maintain a trade network (also discussed in the Dungeon at length). Some of these shortcomings can be gotten around (such as the one complained of here) and others can't.

The worst AI fault is that CA programmed the game so that in order to maintain trade one needs a chain of ships from port to port, but failed to program the AI to do this. We've modded the game to produce more AI faction ships, but it still doesn't help since the AI generally clumps them in its home port and doesn't spread them out to form a chain very well (even if you set faction behavior to CATHOLIC_TRADER). This means that the player gets a huge advantage from trade over the AI, which unbalances the game. One would hope that CA would get it right for TWIII, but don't hold your breath. It's still a very enjoyable game, even with all the faults.

[ToranagaSama]

VERY nice assessment http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

In cugel's first paragraph, not only does he highlight one of the AI's shortcomings, BUT also illustrates how by comprehending the AI, a shortcoming can be turned into a challenge.

What's the title of the thread you mentioned?

-------------
Now, the one feature that CA needs to add to RTW, is the capability (and Tools) to Mod the AI CA you will be remiss if you fail to address this. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[Tora]

What appear to some to be inherent weaknesses in MTW are seen by others as justifiable in that they possibly could - or actually did - happen all those years ago. Discussions appear to run along the lines of....

Q: Don't you think that it's a mite surreal that 11 Danish Royal Knights should attack 180 of my fully tooled-up billmen across a single river bridge, especially since only last year they sent their gratitude to me for freeing them from the oppressive yoke of the perfidious HRE, and the year before that my daughter married one of their princes?
A: Ah well, you see, illogical and foolhardy as it may seem, what appears to you to be a singularly unwarranted act of aggression of the most unchivalrous kind does indeed have a historical precedent. In 1276, Nogbad the Bad married an English princess who accidently served him the wrong variety of mushrooms for supper one evening. Delighted by the resulting effects he wandered with those of his fellow diners who could still stand, in a vaguely southerly direction in search of some more. Upon reaching a bridge in Lower Saxony he espyed on the far bank a clump of giant red and yellow fungi so he proceeded to........etc.

Q: Err.. OK then. Perhaps you can explain to me why the Russians (Formerly The Good People of Novgorod) have just sunk my entire Baltic Fleet without the slightest provocation, notwithstanding the salient facts that I am at war with all of their enemies-but not them- and only three years ago I married one of their princesses?
A: Don't feel paranoid. Nobody's ganging up on you merely because you own two fifths of Europe.
In fact this is an uncannily accurate echo of a little known event in 1304 when Prince Dmitri the Unstable married his daughter Svetlana to the English king. After her new husband inquired as to the whereabouts of the bridal dowry he despatched his brother Prince Mstislav the Terminally Bewildered to procure some good quality vodka as the Royal drinks cabinet had been drunk dry.
Although Finnish vodka was considered the best it was also the most expensive, and Dmitri hadn't got round to conquering Finland yet after three attempts so Mstislav sailed to Sweden to obtain some Absolut - illegally, I might add, for there was no trading agreement as yet between the two states. Unfortunately on the return voyage, having personally checked the cargo to ascertain it's suitability as a Royal dowry, Mstislav spotted what he thought were several Customs and Excise boats and opened fire not realising that......yawn.

As sure as eggs is eggs, empires rise and fall. What some seem reluctant to acknowledge, unlike the developers, is that it is easier to try to reproduce this phenomenon by setting a trigger rather than attempting to recreate the infinite subtleties that are part of the natural progression of the genuine article.

If you get too big for your boots then the AI's gonna get on your case.
(Unless you're the French, who get picked on from the start).

The motto you must adopt then is "Non Illegitimi Carborundum." http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Dr_Who_Regen#4]

Just a thought about a weak nation attacking a large nation. If you were playing and for whatever reason a computer power started winning would you sit back or attack them and attempt to check their growth even if they weren't attacking you. If they were rolling over one of may neighbor factions at a time i would not wait to becomne their last victim. I know this might not be what was happening in your game, but maybe they observed the world in this way. Another good example would be as the danish. Do you not attack HRE because as a whole they are bigger... Usually, you do attack them so you can gain land even though their total armies are bigger and they have at least twice as many provinces as you.

I think the main difference is that we tend to beat the AI in battles and strategy through a cunning not possessed by the AI. We shouldn't fault the AI for trying to beat us against the odds.

Also when the AI attacks a fleet, how does it know that you have a maasive Navy. Perhaps it can tell, but if they are the English it sounds like you justed moved a ship near them.As you say they had just built a ship. How were they to know how big your fleet is. I can't see the AI's fleets until my ships get near them.

As my foggy memory of history serves me the English fought the spanish armada(the greatest navy in the world at the time) and managed to totally destory it. I think the Greeks pulled a similar move against the Persians in ancient times as well.

Maybe the AI has its own hopes of making its own History. I doubt it, but rulers do crazy things all the time.


Anyway just my 2 cents
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Sir Black Raven]

As far i understand MTW and STW are strategic games about struggling for power and dominance. I do know that sometimes the AI can perform acts that for us are unreasonable or foolish but hey it's a game not a human. We can't expect that it behave as human. I agreed that in the strategic part we could have more options to deal with certain questions as setting a peace agreement by paying money or giving up one or two regions as a payment for loosing the war against the enemy. Nevertheless if we attend to the aim of the game that is conquering the world i think that the game is very good. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif