View Full Version : Cliffton thread & Axalon/Deb8
This is meant towards the org staff in general and those that have to do with the MTW section in particular:
the previous, cliffton started thread was a well behaved, well informed thread by the admission of all patrons that participated and it did nothing wrong to no one - the DEBATE [DEB8] guy highjacked it quite clearly at a particular timing towards a confrontatinal pre-destined direction that seems to suit his ends, and instead of getting him out of the thread, the thread got closed..
This is bending under pressure from one single person and i'm not even sure who that DEBATE guy really is and for whom he is DEBATING ABOUT, the way he jumps into certain particular things everytime..
Org staff of the medieval section you are clearly going about this the wrong way it seems to me and you are digging the MTW section's hole.. might as well call it the redux section and let axalon "moderate" it.. will make for some interesting "DEBATES"..
Too bad..:no:
:shocked: Wow, just WOW!? The next thread about Iron Man rules goes off road. It's quite interesting. What is so different in this subject that makes people so eager to fight about everything, even some imagined, nonexistent offends? Probably some people just like to debate no matter of a subject.
@gollum - mentioning Axalon in the way you did is not the healthiest way to argue. Going personal is just why the "Iron Man" topic was closed. btw I'm surprised caravel took the bait. It was clear it won't go unnoticed by moderators.
I understand why drone closed the thread. Probably, it was like "Geeez, I have better things to do than diving into this pile of.. irrelevant comments. Let's stop it for good." :wink: Deleting all comments starting from 49 and dropping a warning for certain participants would be IMHO a better option but he did what he did.
I doubt that making a thread about the locked thread will change much...
It's an .org culture thing - any kind of dispute or discussion among members is silenced, censored, etc. Threads are locked or hacked up.
The result is that the forum is pretty much dull and lifeless and I never thought I would see the day where there would be more MTW and STW related traffic at the TWC...
The .org has the opportunity to keep the maturer players on board, but is instead moderating us out of existence...
What is so different in this subject that makes people so eager to fight about everything, even some imagined, nonexistent offends? Probably some people just like to debate no matter of a subject.
Certain people see a thread or post with certain usernames attached and it causes decade old grudges to resurface... it's as simple as that, not about "iron man rules" at all. It doesn't have to be iron man rules as such, could be anything and in fact it has been, it doesn't matter what those posters are posting, it's the fact that it's those posters who are posting it...
If you read the original, resurrected thread you will see all of this - plain as day. No need to speculate or guess...
You've certainly been around long enough to have seen this.
@gollum - mentioning Axalon in the way you did is not the healthiest way to argue. Going personal is just why the "Iron Man" topic was closed.
You are merely speculating as to why the thread was closed.
What I find interesting is that you have a practically dead forum - with (as I said) more STW and MTW activity at TWC - and you have a moderator here closing the only active threads because of a little "debate".
btw I'm surprised caravel took the bait. It was clear it won't go unnoticed by moderators.
Of course it wasn't going to go unnoticed. I haven't taken any "bait" as such, I've only responded to comments directed towards me, while posting legitimate content and trying to keep the thread on topic...
But for some, their long standing grudge always comes first, hence the predictable slide into oblivion...
I understand why drone closed the thread.
Whereas I do not.
Probably, it was like "Geeez, I have better things to do than diving into this pile of.. irrelevant comments. Let's stop it for good." :wink: Deleting all comments starting from 49 and dropping a warning for certain participants would be IMHO a better option but he did what he did.
You can only speculate. I'm not trying to get inside the head of any .org staff or understand the rationale for why the thread was closed. In my opinion there was no need to close the thread and there is no need to censor or hack up the thread.
At the most, the thread could have been split.
ReluctantSamurai
01-09-2019, 13:55
Deleting all comments starting from 49 and dropping a warning for certain participants would be IMHO a better option but he did what he did
Agreed.
The result is that the forum is pretty much dull and lifeless and I never thought I would see the day where there would be more MTW and STW related traffic at the TWC
A sad state of affairs brought on by changing times and mis-judgements (IMHO) by the ORG staff:shrug:
And with a steadily declining active membership, the future here at the ORG doesn't appear too bright.....:end:
Again, it's just a damn game (and a very good one) meant to be enjoyed rather than debated on which is the proper way to play it....:crazy:
The thread was closed because there were 17 straight useless, off-topic posts in an hour and an half timeframe. A new member creates a thread and it gets hijacked by old grievances, a lovely first impression of the .Org. I may have overreacted, but Tosa's words rang true: Topic was tired and needed a nap.
The proper place for a thread like this is the Watchtower. My incompetence as a moderator should be brought up there where the admins will take your complaints and viewpoints. :bow:
The thread was closed because there were 17 straight useless, off-topic posts in an hour and an half timeframe.
As opposed to pretty much nothing at all being posted most of the time and most of the traffic seemingly going to TWC...? Back in the day, there was a lot of "offtopic" banter on these forums, not the airing of these nasty grudges, but a lot of humorous posts intertwined with the more ontopic stuff... that was part of made it what it was.
A new member creates a thread and it gets hijacked by old grievances, a lovely first impression of the .Org. I may have overreacted, but Tosa's words rang true: Topic was tired and needed a nap.
The two most recent threads having locks on them doesn't look great either... look again: you had quite a few members making constructive posts and discussing iron man rules and other aspects of the game - the exchange between DEB8 and I was a mere sideshow...
My incompetence as a moderator should be brought up there where the admins will take your complaints and viewpoints.
You've introduced a false dilemma, i.e. a choice between tolerating the status quo or "officially" complaining about you. On a forum of this size, which such a small community and considering our history, complaining about you to others is not my preferred route.
Also based on my experience of .org staff - they will of course side with you, so the invitation to go the watchtower is as good as an invitation to fuck right off - "my way or the highway". It's disappointing, but that's essentially what you're offering.
That's not how I operate - running off to a feedback subforum to complain about a moderator... but more importantly a member I have posted alongside for years. I have approached you directly and also by PM...
So, it would seem that the highway beckons (again).
You've introduced a false dilemma, i.e. a choice between tolerating the status quo or "officially" complaining about you. On a forum of this size, which such a small community and considering our history, complaining about you to others is not my preferred route.
Also based on my experience of .org staff - they will of course side with you, so the invitation to go the watchtower is as good as an invitation to fuck right off - "my way or the highway". It's disappointing, but that's essentially what you're offering.
That's not how I operate - running off to a feedback subforum to complain about a moderator... but more importantly a member I have posted alongside for years. I have approached you directly and also by PM...
So, it would seem that the highway beckons (again).
I'm not so sure I would agree. I know I'm far from the best mod on this forum, I'm active but I'm not really a people person. Frankly I think I got the job because I was a reasonably well-behaved warm body that was actively contributing to the MTW sections. I'm not telling you guys to sod off, if you have problems with the way I moderate the forum bring them up in the Watchtower, and maybe I will learn something. I don't like locking threads, but giving out warnings and infractions isn't going to solve anything either as 1.) the time between active topics guarantees point expiration, and 2.) if nothing has changed in 10 years I don't have any illusions about my ability to stop the sniping with warnings that will inevitably be construed as favoritism by all sides.
Also, complaining about my moderating in the MTW forums means we have off-topic threads where all of the old bad blood is visible on the board. The first complaint thread even brought up members who had nothing to do with the original issue, how is this helpful?
As opposed to pretty much nothing at all being posted most of the time and most of the traffic seemingly going to TWC...? Back in the day, there was a lot of "offtopic" banter on these forums, not the airing of these nasty grudges, but a lot of humorous posts intertwined with the more ontopic stuff... that was part of made it what it was.
The two most recent threads having locks on them doesn't look great either... look again: you had quite a few members making constructive posts and discussing iron man rules and other aspects of the game - the exchange between DEB8 and I was a mere sideshow...
I am not so sure either: the exchange may have been a sideshow to you, but to me it felt like an old grudge that threatened to dominate and possibly derail the thread, without adding anything of value. And while I didn't moderate the Main Hall "back in the day", I would have stepped in if such an exchange occurred on a forum I was moderating.
I understand why drone closed the thread. Probably, it was like "Geeez, I have better things to do than diving into this pile of.. irrelevant comments. Let's stop it for good." :wink: Deleting all comments starting from 49 and dropping a warning for certain participants would be IMHO a better option but he did what he did.
Pretty much this. I could have spent the time to purge the thread, but what was written was already read so it was just going to continue. I was AFK this weekend and specifically asked the staff to watch this thread because I knew where it was headed. I was pleasantly surprised when I got back that the thread was still on-topic (if lively), and appreciate that it didn't go off the rails until later in the day and Ludens or other staff did not have to deal with it in my absence.
As opposed to pretty much nothing at all being posted most of the time and most of the traffic seemingly going to TWC...? Back in the day, there was a lot of "offtopic" banter on these forums, not the airing of these nasty grudges, but a lot of humorous posts intertwined with the more ontopic stuff... that was part of made it what it was.
I let all kinds of off-topic banter go on in threads, but "banter" is not what was going on here. I don't go to TWC, are these nasty grudges brought up in threads there? Do the mods there tolerate this behavior, or is this stuff just reserved for the .Org? Maybe TWC's increased STW/MTW traffic comes from the fact that new members do not have to navigate 10 year old feuds.
The thread was closed because there were 17 straight useless, off-topic posts in an hour and an half timeframe. A new member creates a thread and it gets hijacked by old grievances, a lovely first impression of the .Org. I may have overreacted, but Tosa's words rang true: Topic was tired and needed a nap.
The topic didn't got tired by itself. You are using words of an authority figure to justify a VERY BAD DECISION The DEB8 guy is clearly trolling [he's highjacked/derailed a thread on the same topic 3 times over MANY YEARS] and he's the only one doing so in that thread. EVERYONE ELSE HAD A NICE TIME EVEN PRAISING THE THREAD, HE SHOWS UP AND MESSES THINGS UP AND ITS THE THREAD THAT GETS LOCKED??!! - NOT HIS COMMENTS MODERATED OUT AND THE THREAD RESTORED ON TOPIC SIMPLY BY CUTTING HIM OUT OF THE ACTION, EVEN HIS POINT OF ENTRY IN THE THREAD IE THE PART THAT IS WRONG THAT ALL CENTERS ON HIM IS SO CLEAR CUT THAT I'M BEFFUDLED AS TO WHY EVERYONE ELSE CAN SEE THAT EXCEPT YOU?
You are misregarding ALL THE CLUES HE'S RUBBING IN YOUR FACE his behaviour [confrontational ONLY - NO CONTRIBUTIONS, SIMPLE NEGATIVE STATEMENTS OVER AND OVER AGAINST SPECIFIC PATRONS POINTS OF VIEW, the very calculated timing he got into the "debate", against whom and what line of arguments his confrontational style is turned against ONLY, as well as his username that suggests that most likely he's an alt account..and he hasn't come forth to challenge this in indignation either which speaks volumes..]
THE SAME HAPPENED IN THE DEADLY SINS THREAD. You noticed it yourself, 'people(??!)' were trashing absent members and their views of the game. Instead of moderating the trashers out and leave the thread - YOU LOCK THE THREAD PLAYING TO THE TROLLS INTENTIONS AND NOW YOU MANAGED TO REPEAT THAT SAME BAD CALL WITH SAID MEMBERS PRESENT AND A NEW IDENTICAL THREAD ACTIVE AND HEALTHY STARTED BY A NEW MEMBER - WELL DONE..!!
This has nothing to do with being a people's person. Its simple logic and nothing more - keeping active healthy debate open is what should be the priority, it has always been so, and ESPECIALLY SO FROM TOSA. Please dont use Tosa and his lines as a justification for your bad call..
If you cannot see that certain members have been playing a dirty political war in this forum and using every means at their disposal in order to do so, you are confusing the forest for the trees.
You can hide behind your role in the forum, behind nitpicking interprentation of the rules and the other staff's backing up in order to justify a bad call that bends the whole board under pressure by the alt accounts of a sociopath, or
you can take the oportunity to reckognise the issue, make the right call, ie moderate out the troll and re-open the thread, and let anyone know that the org is not their private field through macchinations trolling, alt accounts, thread hi-jacking as pressure against rival points of view- and whatever else backhanded means
And also: since you seem to lock every thread about iron man rules that gets derailed from the same people and their - most likely - alt accounts, if now i am a new member, say, and i want to start a NEW THREAD about iron man rules what is the message i'm getting from how the forum staff react?!
The implicit message is loud and clear: iron man rules discussions are allowed to be derailed [BY THE SAME PEOPLE] and when [ALLOWED TO BE SUCCESFULLY] derailed they are finally closed/locked [not the derailer moved out of the thread]- so better not discuss these things, god its tiring, the same story again etc - YES THE SAME STORY AGAIN BUT FROM WHO??!! - whose ends this serves??! The forum's that thrives on appropriate discussion(of all colours) or someone's that doesn't want specific things to be discussed??!
It amazes me that you cannot see all this drone, seriously mate
If its a bad call, and you can see this, it doesn't have to stay this way - it actually shouldn't stay that way. Moderate the troll and re-open the thread with the right message to everyone that wants to participate, ie stay on topic folks, which is what moderating is all about.. ie Keeping healthy active debate exactly that: HEALTHY AND ACTIVE
I am not so sure either: the exchange may have been a sideshow to you, but to me it felt like an old grudge that threatened to dominate and possibly derail the thread, without adding anything of value. And while I didn't moderate the Main Hall "back in the day", I would have stepped in if such an exchange occurred on a forum I was moderating.
Caravel means that the exchange is offtopic and so the exchange is to be moderated and NOT THE WHOLE THREAD CLOSED WHICH IS THE PURPOSE OF THE ALTACCOUNT/TROLL IN QUESTION.
YOU STAFF LOT ARE BEING GASLIGHTED AND THE WHOLE BOARD IS BEING BUCKLED TO A SPECIFIC POLITICAL AGENDA
STAZI mate, you are feeding a crocodile with the hope he'll eat you last as does the whole forum with VERY PREDICTABLE RESULTS.. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT :yes:
Caravel means that the exchange is offtopic and so the exchange is to be moderated and NOT THE WHOLE THREAD CLOSED WHICH IS THE PURPOSE OF THE ALTACCOUNT/TROLL IN QUESTION.
I do not believe this is what Caravel had in mind.
In my opinion there was no need to close the thread and there is no need to censor or hack up the thread.
At the most, the thread could have been split.
I happen to disagree with this viewpoint, there was no way I was going to let the thread continue on it's course without intervention. Locking the thread was likely the easy way out, but I feel like this discussion (in one form or another) would be going on regardless of which mechanism I used.
I do not believe this is what Caravel had in mind.
I happen to disagree with this viewpoint, there was no way I was going to let the thread continue on it's course without intervention. Locking the thread was likely the easy way out, but I feel like this discussion (in one form or another) would be going on regardless of which mechanism I used.
Apologies if that is the case regarding Caravel's comment. I'll let Caravel explain what he means.
All i'm trying to say to you is [and you dont have to comment on it]: see the bigger picture, there's more than meets the eye here, unfortunately. Nothing personal towards you, i just think its a bad call that unknowingly (from your part) plays to the hands of a political agenda.
The same happened, as i said to the Deadly Sins thread, just read it. The DEB8 guy does the dirty work and then comes the 'man' to lend his 'voice of authority' without getting his hands dirty all the while, to give his seal of approval to DEB8s points - they are one and the same. Even the posting style
The DEBATE [DEB8] account appears to behave as a designed account for fanboying backup and for personality/point of view assasination and threadhijacking thereby rendering "rival threads" impossible to continue through trolling and so create a shift towards certain game issues not being discussed hence making space for 'others' to be
I am not so sure either: the exchange may have been a sideshow to you, but to me it felt like an old grudge that threatened to dominate and possibly derail the thread, without adding anything of value.
Crisis averted... as the thread has now been locked, there is no danger of any further derailment. All is good, we can now all get back to doing nothing at all...
other staff did not have to deal with it in my absence.
What was there to "deal with"? Who was harmed? What kind of imaginary rules are being broken?
I let all kinds of off-topic banter go on in threads, but "banter" is not what was going on here.
You said the posts were "offtopic", I've said that offtopic used to go on, within the flow of threads and was never a problem. That's all I've said.
Whether the offtopic "discussion" in question within the thread counted as "objectionable" is a different matter.
Only two members were really involved in that exchange, I had not reported the thread or any posts within in it and neither had the other to my knowledge - if he had that would be rather bizarre and hypocritical.
The end result and this show, is worse that the disagreement within the thread. That's the point I'm making and what you fail to recognise.
That mostly constructive thread is locked. In locking that thread apparently you feel you've done a good thing.
So, trolling iron man rules threads get them locked and a helpful and willing moderator aids and abets the trolls by applying the lock...
To replace it we now have this. Even more visible, even more stupid and pointless, presented for the "entertainment" of the entire forum, rather than just the few members involved in the niche sub forum...
The DEB8 guy is clearly trolling [he's highjacked/derailed a thread on the same topic 3 times over MANY YEARS] and he's the only one doing so in that thread.
In the quest for some kind of misguided, perverted "impartiality", the mods will of course simply blame all those involved - schoolteacher style... which is why we now have this thread in this forum as part of some idiotic formal(?) process which will achieve precisely nothing and may as well be closed. Honestly, no idea why this is here and open and the actual thread with the content in the forum where this is supposed to be is closed...
I happen to disagree with this viewpoint, there was no way I was going to let the thread continue on it's course without intervention. Locking the thread was likely the easy way out, but I feel like this discussion (in one form or another) would be going on regardless of which mechanism I used.
And what a disaster that would be...
I've seen worse in the backroom. That's how hypocritical and one sided this farce is.
The backroom has a history of more moderator coverage, more moderator time, more bans, infractions, "exchanges", major incidents... than the rest of the site put together. Yet it was all worth it, all perfectly acceptable, permissible and allowed to continue, with minor slaps when some miscreant took things a bit too far. Now we have a minor back and forth between two or three members in a forum which has had no posts this year, apart from that thread... and the resident moderator jumps in.
Playing right into the hands of the individual(s) who resurrected and trolled the old thread and the individual who also felt the need to weigh in and resume spewing bile into the new thread, based on one tiny comment which was perceived as a slight. The fact they were reading at all, the fact they they scanned for any kind of perceived offence says a lot...
Why would you post in an "iron man rules" thread just to trash every idea presented [by the posters you happen to despise]?
Shall I go to the forums about the newer games just to trash every aspect and facet of those? Better still, shall I also post in the threads relating to certain MTW mods and just trash and ridicule those mods, their implementations and the individuals involved?
It's win, win for me... based on this, the worst scenario is that the threads will be locked...
just read it.
That's the easy part, but difficult for some it would seem. But it's not worth the effort, lumping everyone together, etc, is the more "professional" way of doing things... and calling it a "feud" is also rather telling... just lock those threads and treat ALL those deemed to be involved as idiots - impartially and equally...
Why would you post in an "iron man rules" thread just to trash every idea presented [by the posters you happen to despise]?
..and if you post in a thread that you apparently hate its very existence to express dogmatically that hate without ever contributing to the thread or argue anything but just crapping anything said with simple one-word confrontational statements, then what would that make you??!!
Folks of the staff: do yourself and the forum a favor and re-open that thread and the previous one and safeguard the on-topic folks instead of gutting the thread for a single alt acount/troll hi jacking and derailing it systematically - you are presently surrendering the board to a political agenda imposed through the worst of means that the very forum rules you serve and impose were designed to protect it from..
You are being taken for a hell of a ride by acting un-knowingly as levers of said agenda..
ok.. I was called in a few comments so I'll explain how I see about the whole thing. For me it's very simple.
First, low traffic in this forum lately is no an excuse for lowering the standards. I admit I haven't read the forum rules but the basics are usually as follows:
1. stay on topic
2. don't go into personal stuff (which really derives form 1st rule)
3. don't double post
4. be respectful
The discussion between caravel and DEB8 was off topic, uninformative, personal stuff, not even funny. It was interesting only for them. This is what private messages are for. Additionality, due to the double or even triple posting, the tread looks like a mess, like their personal playground. I haven't seen any reaction on the double post thing from the mods so maybe it's not forbidden in this forum but it certainly doesn't look good and IMHO it's inconvenient to read. Especially now, when there is so little traffic here, we should keep our forum clean, tidy and informative as much as we can.
STAZI mate, you are feeding a crocodile with the hope he'll eat you last as does the whole forum with VERY PREDICTABLE RESULTS.. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT :yes:
I don't feel like I'm feeding anyone. I merely expressed my point of view which accidentally is close to the drone's. As you probably noticed I don't agree with him on closing the thread entirely (which was nice to read until certain moment). I only mentioned that I can understand the reasons why he did it. If warnings are ineffective (as drone said) I'd consider a short ban (24h or so), just to show the rules should be taken seriously.
I haven't taken any "bait" as such, I've only responded to comments directed towards me, while posting legitimate content and trying to keep the thread on topic...
After reading some of your comments (obviously not all) during those years I pictured you as sane, reasonable person who knows when to stop. That's why I thought it was just a bad day you were dragged/baited into that pointless discussion.
If you cannot see that certain members have been playing a dirty political war in this forum and using every means at their disposal in order to do so, you are confusing the forest for the trees.
It's certainly possible that the staff is missing something here. We are only human.
But hyperbolic rants only serve to antagonize people. The matter isn't quite as black-and-white as you make it out to be.
It's certainly possible that the staff is missing something here. We are only human.
But hyperbolic rants only serve to antagonize people. The matter isn't quite as black-and-white as you make it out to be.
"Hyperbolic rants" ?! and "you 'missed' 'something' " ?! :laugh4:
Since you appear [from the way you speak] to know exactly how the matter is - and i dont remember you in the MTW section in ages when all this was forming or playing out, to be so smugly dismissive of someone who was - which is a testament to your own glaring incompetence and blindness as to what is happening right now, i'll leave you to it..
The fact is that you [staff] managed to close two identical legitimate, well behaved threads on EXACTLY the same subject when THE VERY SAME troll hi-jacked them in the SAME WAY instead of getting HIM out.. and now, through your smugly patronising response I, who made contributions to that thread and generated discussion for everyone to enjoy and participate, am here apologising and NOT HIM who just trolled my thread happily all the way to the watchtower and your infuriating. impolite, inapropriate, misinformed and disinformed - pretend to play buddha when someone else is getting the stick - answer..
No point bothering with you lot anymore - you really deserve what you get, and it seems you enjoy it too.. someone is laughing his a** off right now with the sheer stupidity you've just exhibited and he's right for doing so..
So since you're so clever and mine aren't good and get closed by you staff lot WITHOUT ANY APPARENT REASON AND WITHOUT BREAKING ANY RULES AND I AM HERE HAVING TO "HYPERBOLICALLY RANT" TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF THE FACT WHILE YOU TREAT ME LIKE S**T, i'll leave YOU generate threads and discussion in the mtw forum, go ahead..
HAVE YOUR WAY NOW DISMISSING AGAIN THE WHOLE THING - AND WHY NOT EVEN MORE SMUGLY THAN BEFORE? - BUT MIND YOU: NOT HYPERBOLICALLY SO :yes: - that would serve NO GOOD PURPOSE :no::yes:
So since you're so clever and mine aren't good and get closed by you staff lot WITHOUT ANY APPARENT REASON AND WITHOUT BREAKING ANY RULES AND I AM HERE HAVING TO "HYPERBOLICALLY RANT" TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF THE FACT WHILE YOU TREAT ME LIKE S**T, i'll leave YOU generate threads and discussion in the mtw forum, go ahead..
Ludens, just to let you know something from personal experience matey, in case you ever take my advice above and try: dont start any threads on iron man rules in the MAIN HALL or the MTW section in general, and in particular how to level the game between the player and the AI, because they get hi-jacked by the same alt acount of another patron that can troll to his heart's content under it as he pathologically hates them and anyone who supports them or discusses them, and he will get his way because the staff will dimwittedly only close the thread you started - basically any thread you or others started over a period of YEARS in the topic that he trolled consistenly - instead of getting the troll out of the way for normal discussion in the thread to resume for those interested [ie EVERYONE ELSE EXCEPT THE TROLL]
AND if you complain through the official channel in the open, the staff will half munchingly admit that it is so, BUT WILL NOT REOPEN THE THREAD VINDICATING THE TROLL AND HIS WAYS WHILE LUMPING YOU AND HIM TOGETHER IN THE SAME POT WITH THEIR PUBLIC STATEMENTS
So better not bother at all regarding such topics, avoid them altogether - they are basically taboo under unwritten forum law, which can be bent to the malicious will of anyone sly enough to try and manipulate it by exploiting the inabiliy of the staff to deal with his tactics - they basically seem the kind of people that cut heads off when they have a headache, which cosidering the contents of certain heads, might NOT BE SUCH A BAD IDEA AFTER ALL~;)
HAVE YOUR WAY NOW DISMISSING AGAIN THE WHOLE THING - AND WHY NOT EVEN MORE SMUGLY THAN BEFORE? - BUT MIND YOU: NOT HYPERBOLICALLY SO :yes: - that would serve NO GOOD PURPOSE :no::yes:
If you are concerned about smug dismissiveness, why did you write stuff like this?
STAZI mate, you are feeding a crocodile with the hope he'll eat you last as does the whole forum with VERY PREDICTABLE RESULTS.. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT :yes:
The staff is trying to do the right thing. I am sorry a worthwhile thread got closed, but we are volunteers with limited time and interest in sorting out old feuds. Like I wrote: we are only human. We make mistakes.
So, again, can we talk about this without hyperbolic attacks?
If you are concerned about smug dismissiveness, why did you write stuff like this?
As it came to a response to you making the first step in that ground, perhaps you'd care to explain why you went there in the first place?
The staff is trying to do the right thing. I am sorry a worthwhile thread got closed, but we are volunteers with limited time and interest in sorting out old feuds. Like I wrote: we are only human. We make mistakes.
No problem there, i've already pm'd drone when the whole thing started to tell him that there's nothing personal and he replied back in kind. That is still my sentiment, its nothing personal, just please re-open the thread
So, again, can we talk about this without hyperbolic attacks?
We've talked enough mate, if you've just admited that this was a mistaken call as i understood, please re-open the thread, nothing else to talk about.
I'm not the one bending or breaking the rules - ever - just ask drone or anyone else in the forum except the ajalon person and his alt accounts.
Please leave the characterisations out of it, and re-open the thread - as well as the previous one please
Now that the staff have ceased to respond to me and considering that the staff don't have the time, by their own admission, I would again like to ask once more - what is the point of this thread being moved here?
Can we just reopen the thread in the main hall, get rid of the troll post and resume?
But hyperbolic rants only serve to antagonize people. The matter isn't quite as black-and-white as you make it out to be.
Lots of things antagonise people. I expect some find others discussing iron man rules antagonising - threatening even...
I for one don't feel antagonised by much here. I've seen a lot worse... so for me this is perhaps nothing that special, but for some this is some kind of enormous forum shit-storm...? I don't know.
What does particularly annoy me (antagonises if you will) is this continued patronising bullshit approach and faux politeness from staff. The "feud" term annoys me just a little as well. I feel that you've deliberately used that term as a means of dismissively lumping both sides in this argument together...
As we seem to be set on stating the obvious - the staff are not the forum, some of us put in countless hours here, contributed to some epic threads and opened new avenues in discussing the game. We "kept the lights on". In just locking that thread and then so condescendingly treating us as "one single problem", you've shown some considerable contempt and arrogance - and also just how disaffected and disinterested you are, how irrelevant and unimportant you feel that subsection of the forum to be...
Anyway you'll be glad to know that the strategy is working, I for one am closer to just throwing the towel in, simply because there doesn't seem to be much point continuing (the one thread was locked after all). Somewhat disappointing, as I had wanted to remain here "on and off" indefinitely.
At the end of the Deadly Sins Thread, where the DEB8[=DEBATE] guy does all the dirty work, before 'da man' comes to offer the seal of approval of his points, drone picked up what was happening, at least in the surface, and commented trying to basically say to those trashing me [as i was absent] and the thread, to leave it alone:
Using a 8 year old necro'd thread to take cheap shots at members that no longer visit the boards could be considered poor form, so please don't.
he got THIS REPLY from Ajalon in person:
I think that is stretching things pretty thin here (at least in my case)... I'm hardly using this thread for anything. I was merely recalling things related to what happened here back in the day and that I have another very different view and take of it these days. Anyhow that edit was lame Drone, really lame... All I said, was that one guy was/is ridiculous and that some other members are too - they all are, as far as I am concerned. I think that is pretty damn harmless, I have been called much worse things both here and elsewhere (many times by these very guys, no less) and I didn't even mention any names here, and if I had, it would still be pretty harmless all the same. Again, I have had to put up with worse shit both said or suggested, and little was done about it on these boards - even on your watch. Poor and weak call, I think...
Your staff member is being told what to do/told off with the air of a judge to a culprit somewhere in IS territory, simply for stating the obvious..
Who is antagonistic of whom??! This is pathological hatred and you end up closing up new threads on the same topics by new members [not myself as reprisal] that his alt accounts continue to troll, hi-jack and finally get locked AGAIN
The same continued in the newer thread we are now debating, only the Ajalon guy didn't want to come out in the new thread as this would make it all too visible.. the DEB8 guy is nowhere to be seen here - appears out of the blue only for trolling as soon as a topic on iron man rules linked to that thread comes forth..
wake up folks..:no:
The action is HERE: pages 2, 3 and 4 - watch the DEBATE guy and the Ajalon guy in co-ordinated action:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS
PS Pages 2, 3 and 4 happened during 2017, when i was long gone.. hence not here to defend it, so it was a sitting duck for discrediting/hijacking by volume of dismissive/troll posting.. the timing the trashing happened again speaks volumes..
There are many other members that dont find my points appealing or too appealing - but none of them bothers with them or me as those that take their dislike of my points or me personally.
The difference is huge: with the first category there is a momentary disagreement and each goes his way.. with the second, we end up right here, many years later which is really sad
On the subject of alts...
I've known about a certain member being an alt account of a certain other member for quite a number of years...
I've never felt it was worth mentioning, or highlighting - it's better to let these obviously disturbed types continue their little games - thinking they leave absolutely no clues, no trail, no signs... little do they know... but given enough rope, etc.
If you look at the posting history from some years ago when these members joined, you can see it as it plays out. All utterly ridiculous and so very obvious even without the aforementioned (clues, signs and trail...)
If you let on... if you, allude to the trail, the signs, the evidence, they will up their game - but they were not playing a very convincing game to start with.
For me, it's better to just let them continue playing, continuing to delude themselves that people have been taken in by it... and just have a little laugh at their expense...
I certainly wasn't, but it seems that, in that particular case, the staff certainly were...
ReluctantSamurai
01-12-2019, 09:10
watch the DEBATE guy and the Ajalon guy
So Axalon and DEB8 are one and the same? If so, that sheds a different light on a debate/discussion I had with "those two" in the Shogun Forum awhile back about the value of muskets:shrug:
On topic, I find these duplicitous comments interesting:
Folks, play 'ol MTW as you please, and above all feel free to post about that as you like on these boards. Don't bother with or conform to these notions of supposed "sins"- its little else then some arbitrary and snobbish drivel. In short, its BS. Besides, if you want to be really cheesy as you play this game at home - then that is still your headache and problem, not mine (or any others)
Ah. The reason behind the "rant"... Not everyone has either the intelligence, time or inclination to either make a mod from scratch or to adjust a vanilla game to enable playing one
In other words, those without sufficient intelligence can continue to make up "arbitrary and snobbish drivel" to make the game more enjoyable, OR....develop/enable a mod. Those comments are certainly a good way to "spark some screwed up drama".
:inquisitive:
So, again, can we talk about this without hyperbolic attacks?
Simply locking a thread because you don't wish to deal with the "drama" is the easy out, IMHO. OTOH, you can't simply ignore the barking dog (which I feel that some of you other guys should do) because you're staff. I realize you have a real life, and time spent here is limited. Perhaps that's the real reason behind the decline here. The passion for the games is gone, and so goes the commitment. That's not meant as a criticism, just an observation.
As it came to a response to you making the first step in that ground, perhaps you'd care to explain why you went there in the first place?
I don't understand how my comment was read as "smugly dismissive" in the first place. And, as a matter of fact, it followed (amongst others) the comment where you likened the staff to crocodiles (or perhaps to craven servants of crocodiles).
So perhaps I was irritable, but the hostility wasn't one-sided.
We've talked enough mate, if you've just admited that this was a mistaken call as i understood, please re-open the thread, nothing else to talk about.
For the record: it's Drone's call to make, not mine. But I feel partly responsible since I didn't step in earlier, and left the matter for him to deal with.
What does particularly annoy me (antagonises if you will) is this continued patronising bullshit approach and faux politeness from staff. The "feud" term annoys me just a little as well. I feel that you've deliberately used that term as a means of dismissively lumping both sides in this argument together...
I see what you mean. I used the term feud because I felt, again, that the hostility wasn't one-sided. But upon rereading it I can't find the comments I remembered - so I need to think about this more.
I realize you have a real life, and time spent here is limited. Perhaps that's the real reason behind the decline here. The passion for the games is gone, and so goes the commitment. That's not meant as a criticism, just an observation.
That's true for me: I don't play TW anymore, and am mostly here for the memories. But the decline of the forum started long ago - and wasn't due to lack of moderator committent. Activity generates activity, and once the Total War Center started growing they got more and more new members/projects that would have previously gone to the .Org (there are various explanations for this; I'd say it was the .Org's Old Guard status and organization working against us). There have been various attempts to jumpstart activity on the .Org, but they never worked out. Over time, we just resigned ourselves to the decline.
I don't understand how my comment was read as "smugly dismissive" in the first place. And, as a matter of fact, it followed (amongst others) the comment where you likened the staff to crocodiles (or perhaps to craven servants of crocodiles).
So perhaps I was irritable, but the hostility wasn't one-sided.
.
Matey, watch how i treat staff in every working thread for all the years i've been here.. like royalty.. ask anyone
Ask anyone how much i loved this place and how much time i've put into making it tick like a clock and contribute volumes.. NOT just my own interests like my mod, but so many parts of the forum..
.. so much so that in 2011 i was offered to moderate the Main Hall everyone knows all this very well..
What's happening here right now is an outrage..two of my threads/threads i've participated heavily ON THE SAME TOPIC are hi-jacked by the same troll, another patron [known to the staff for being aggressively, one-sidededly and openly hostile to me and my points] calls them AND me ridiculous in my absence and when the staff tell him to stop he calls your staff "LAME" for doing so, and ITS THE THREADS THAT GET CLOSED, AND I AM HERE APOLOGISING TO YOU WHEN ITS YOU [THE STAFF] THAT CLOSES LEGITIMATE DISCUSSION INSTEAD OF PROTECTING IT FROM SPAM, TROLLS, PERSONAL INSULTS AND ALT ACCOUNTS OF SOCIOPATHS, AS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO..
BY THE WAY- YOU'VE ALREADY ADMITTED THE CALL IS MISTAKEN AND BOTH OF MY THREADS ARE STILL CLOSED AND SPAM INFESTED BY THE SAME TROLL, WHAT SHOULD I MAKE OF THIS??!! AND DONT TELL ME ITS DRONE'S CALL 'CAUSE IF SO, WHY YOU ADMITTED THAT THE CALL WAS MISTAKEN??!! YOU ARE HIDING ONE BEHIND THE OTHER FOR A GLARING ERROR YOU HAVE ADMITTED BUT ARE NOT CORRECTING??!..
SO, ONCE MORE:[I] PLEASE OPEN BOTH THREADS AND CLEAR THEM FROM SPAM, TROLLING AND THE PERSONAL INSULTS TO ME AND MY POINTS.. I'M STILL WAITING
So Axalon and DEB8 are one and the same? If so, that sheds a different light on a debate/discussion I had with "those two" in the Shogun Forum awhile back about the value of muskets:shrug:
BINGO :yes: One and the same, hence why so much agreement here and there.. ~;)
On topic, I find these duplicitous comments interesting:
Posted by the AXXXalon:kiss2: person
Folks, play 'ol MTW as you please, and above all feel free to post about that as you like on these boards. Don't bother with or conform to these notions of supposed "sins"- its little else then some arbitrary and snobbish drivel. In short, its BS. Besides, if you want to be really cheesy as you play this game at home - then that is still your headache and problem, not mine (or any others)
Ah. The reason behind the "rant"... Not everyone has either the intelligence, time or inclination to either make a mod from scratch or to adjust a vanilla game to enable playing one
In other words, those without sufficient intelligence can continue to make up "arbitrary and snobbish drivel" to make the game more enjoyable, OR....develop/enable a mod. Those comments are certainly a good way to "spark some screwed up drama".
:inquisitive:
So, again, can we talk about this without hyperbolic attacks?
Simply locking a thread because you don't wish to deal with the "drama" is the easy out, IMHO. OTOH, you can't simply ignore the barking dog (which I feel that some of you other guys should do) because you're staff. I realize you have a real life, and time spent here is limited. Perhaps that's the real reason behind the decline here. The passion for the games is gone, and so goes the commitment. That's not meant as a criticism, just an observation.
AMEN MATE..
THE STAFF ARE PLAYING INTO THE HANDS OF THE AGENDA OF THE SPAMMER/TROLL/ANTAGONISTIC SOCIOPATH - THAT'S WHY HE INSISTS, SO THAT YOU GET TIRED OF PULLING THE REINS ON HIM AND INSTEAD LOCK THE THREADS WITH LEGITIMATE, INFORMATIVE, WELL BEHAVED DISCUSSION - SIMPLY BECAUSE ITS NOT TO HIS LIKING - ITS HIS BEHAVIOUR AND TACTICS THAT ARE THE PROBLEM NOT THE THREADS - HELLO!!?? WILL YOU OPEN THE THREADS FINALLY PLEASE??!
Drone mate, you are stealing from the just and meek to get off your back the unjust and blood-thirsty
YOU ARE, IN FACT, EXACTLY FEEDING A CROCODILE WITH THE HOPE HE'LL EAT YOU LAST
Clear and Restore the threads, please
ReluctantSamurai
01-12-2019, 16:49
But the decline of the forum started long ago - and wasn't due to lack of moderator committent
Yes...and no. The lack of commitment came from both members and staff. This isn't the only game and forum to suffer this. I suppose it's just the way things happen when real life happens. But like any marriage, one has to work at it rather than "resigning" to the decline. That means both members AND staff. That didn't happen and so here we are locking up threads on a forum with minimal activity except in the Backroom:shrug:
Yes...and no. The lack of commitment came from both members and staff. This isn't the only game and forum to suffer this. I suppose it's just the way things happen when real life happens. But like any marriage, one has to work at it rather than "resigning" to the decline. That means both members AND staff. That didn't happen and so here we are locking up threads on a forum with minimal activity except in the Backroom:shrug:
Nah.. Instead of discussing iron man rules in the Main Hall, its better discussing why a legitimate thread that everyone liked, read and participated out of the blue, that was hi-jacked by the same perennial troll should have been open as it was a mistake to close it, but its still closed to the troll's content since that topic wasn't to his liking.. Congratulations..:laugh4:
Someone must be laughing with you staff lot like hell right now being made such fools by him.. WELL DONE :2thumbsup::laugh4:
Members of the staff:
PERHAPS WE SHOULD ASK "DEB8" WHAT OTHER TOPICS HE DOESN'T LIKE "DEB8ING", AND MAKE A LIST THAT IS DISTRIBUTED TO ALL MEMBERS THAT POST IN THE MAIN HALL SO THEY KNOW WHAT TOPICS HAVE A CHANCE OF SURVIVING HIS TROLLING AND HENCE THERE IS A POINT TO DISCUSS THEM..
JUST SO THAT PEOPLE WON'T WASTE THEIR TIME DISCUSSING ANYTHING NOT TO HIS LIKING AND POOR "DEB8" WONT BE WORN DOWN HAVING TO TROLL THEM ALL OUT OF EXISTENCE, YES?!:laugh4:
PS Before distributing the list to Main Hall dwellers, pass it from aXXXalon:kiss2: too .. just in case.. you never know some bugger might slip past the initial reading..:laugh4:
The initial complaint about the thread has been resolved as it has now been re-opened with the offending posts removed. I might have to go back and re-check the posts, but hopefully the initial discussion and the good-will with wishing everyone a happy new year will continue.
There is also no evidence that Deb8 is Axalon that I have seen or even suggesting this. To be frank, if ever turns out that DEB8 was Axalon, he would have gone through some heroic efforts to pull that off that he deserves a pat on the back and a free round on the house.
DEB8 has also been banned from the topic, considering the large amount of contributions, only 1 was an actual contribution. That said, a few members gave as good as they got. An eye for an eye makes the world blind, so I recommend in the future to ignore the individual and report their post, rather than giving them the service of actively replying to it or escalating the manner yourself. This helps in the future so such a topic does not require moderator intervention and ends up getting locked in a case similar to this. As I seen previous to the issue, there were plenty of good posts and contributions to be found.
Also my apologies for my delay in getting involved.
The initial complaint about the thread has been resolved as it has now been re-opened with the offending posts removed. I might have to go back and re-check the posts, so hopefully the initial discussion and the good-will with wishing everyone a happy new year will continue.
There is also no evidence that Deb8 is Axalon that I have seen or even suggesting this. To be frank, if ever turns out it DEB8 was Axalon, he would have through some heroic efforts to pull that off that he deserves a pat on the back and a free round on the house.
DEB8 has also been banned from the topic, considering the large amount of contributions, only 1 was an actual contribution. That said, a few members gave as good as they got. An eye for an eye makes the world blind, so I recommend in the future to ignore the individual and report their post, rather than giving them the service of actively replying to it or escalating the manner yourself so it ends up with the topic requiring moderator intervention and getting locked in a case similar to this.
:bow:
I certainly laughed plenty of times as I read about all the absurd and hysterical conspiracies forwarded here, back and forth - its all lies and nonsense of course. That is, all the things insinuated, suggested and/or claimed here about me, anyways. What is true is that I do think that Caravel, Gollum (and Martok) are indeed ridiculous people - just look at this thread. And, it is true that I also dislike them on general principle, due to various, yet often similar reasons. Things like repeated dishonesty, lies, hypocrisy, hysteria and charlatanism - typical stuff that I do not approve of - and so, I will dislike any people who display or engage in such things. Imagine that. As for the rest... Its utter BS... And, I dare anyone to prove otherwise. "My very own special personal word for it" will not cut it - unlike how it have been here, so far...
***
As for the so called "ironman"-rules... People can and should be free to discuss any such rules in any way they please. Personally, I don't care. As simple as that. Its not my problem, its theirs... Now, twisting such rules into "sins" is done to clearly as to promote notions that some stuff is supposedly “bad”, “exploits” or "unbecoming" to do - as declared by its self-styled arbiters. In effect preaching how people - should, and should not - play their own private game at home. A premise, that I personally find inherently ridiculous.
As it stands… I have not posted in the MTW general area since May 2017, and that was about castles. Shortly before that the “sins-thread” had resurfaced there. And at the time, it hit me how different I viewed such things "today" in comparison to back then, 2009. This on many levels. Both the topic, the people involved in such activities and the moderation I was provided there. So I made my 3rd post there, with all that in mind... That post got censured and edited by Drone, which I think was a weak, questionable and overprotective call, and I said so. After all, I have certainly not been granted much such protection here at the Org, now have I? Case in point, this thread for instance. Publicly saying that something or someone is ridiculous is one thing... Declaring them a "sociopath", is quite another... Yet, no action has been taken on my behalf - as I simply don't enjoy/are granted such protection. As simple as that. So, whatever doubts there was about that - is essentially over and out by now - and that circumstance will be hard to escape at this point, I think...
As for DEB8... I know little about him, so he will have too speak for himself. We have nothing to do with each other, save that we have on occasion posted on the same forum and sections. He is supposedly located in England and I am located in Sweden. So that's that. Naturally, he is not, nor has he ever been, an alt-account of mine. I'm sure our respective IP-numbers can confirm that information too, should it ever become necessary.
Alt-accounts… I don't have any alt-accounts - anywhere - da Org included. Again, IP-numbers can probably verify that on this forum. Its simply not my style. I leave all that to the folks who somehow needs and loves their little masquerade and sneaking around these boards in disguise - and all such crap. Essentially, people like Gollum for instance - who is using an alt-account right here, right now (his 3rd or 4th alt supposedly. Even the "original" Gollum account is just an alt-account for **** sake, this by his own admission! Imagine that). And then of course we have Caravel, who probably holds the all time record at the Org for using and spawning alt-accounts for these boards (the administration can probably verify this too). And yes, the great irony (and the amazing hypocrisy attached) to all that - especially considering the statements/claims these two made in this thread - is not entirely lost on me! Lulz!!!
Finally, can this Org-crowd, from now on please leave me out of your damned "conspiracies",
"meltdowns" and "nutjob-logics". After all, I have zero part or interest in any of that, literally…
That said, I’ll head back to da TWC now….
- A
the usual
aXXXy~:) dont be lame baby:kiss2:
That said, I’ll head back to da TWC now….
Alright, but come back soon.. we all love you matey :yes:
Good now we heard from everyone, except, of course.. DEB8..! who was actually involved in that thread [and it would have made sense for him to comment/respond almost immediately].. but as it appears he never came out [despite allegations he's an alt account]..yes?
One cant help but think why so..~:)
IF, IF says i, Ajalon and DEB8 were - god forbids - the same person, dismissing all this would come better from the 'official/prestigious' account [that 'never got involved'].. and not the little trolling account [that did the dirty work and was clearly at fault]..
to defend the whole thing 'aggressively' with the trolling account and not appear with the 'official' account would let the allegations hang on top of said 'main' account and so hurt its prestige and mod user 'clientelle'.. aggression is witheld for 'safer' situations, as when necro-posting on 8 year old threads for revenge against absent members that the 'main' account has a pathological grudge against.. just saying..
Beskar, tell you what mate, i'll pay up front a round to you guys just in case you ever need it..~:)
free drinks are on me aXXXie you handsome devil, you :yes:
After all, I have zero interest in any of that, literally…
That's what you always say, and yet - thank god - you always manage to come back a few years later to troll/insult/discredit whoever/whatever you dont like and to get their threads closed by pushing it with misbehaviour [like in the Deadly Sins [aXXXIe post 1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053746610&viewfull=1#post2053746610)] & [aXXXie post 2] (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053746691&viewfull=1#post2053746691) thread]..[I]literally :yes:
we'll patiently await for when that blessed time comes again in the clifton thread- so we can happily "deb8" again in the future :yes:
-Cheers buddy
What is true is that I do think that Caravel, Gollum (and Martok) are indeed ridiculous people - just look at this thread.
Which Martok has not participated in... little slip up...? you not only hate certain posters, you also tar anyone remotely connected to those posters - even loosely so - with the same brush. Is Martok included because of the present incident, the previous one, or is he part of your long term grudge as well...? Very unfair, considering Martok is such a very well liked and respected member.
I wonder do you recall whom it was that secured you the subforum for your modding project here...?
As for the so called "ironman"-rules... People can and should be free to discuss any such rules in any way they please. Personally, I don't care. As simple as that. Its not my problem, its theirs...
How very benevolent of you. It's not a "problem" though - neither yours nor that of anyone else... I only have to read the threads to see where you you've made it your problem of course, though you now deny it...
Same with stuff like converting to Christianity and Teppo in Shogun, I forget the rest... but anything you don't like is trashed, dismissed and the posters (always the same posters of course) trolled and for you becomes a matter of those discussing it trying to force others to do the same... odd that.
In the end of course it all boils down to the only real way to play the game is to install your modding project...
And if they don't? That's their "problem" of course...
And despite horrendous mismanagement by .org - you're still here, doing them a favour. Annoying that, because the site clearly owes you...
Now, twisting such rules into "sins" is done to clearly as to promote notions that some stuff is supposedly “bad”, “exploits” or "unbecoming" to do - as declared by its self-styled arbiters. In effect preaching how people - should, and should not - play their own private game at home. A premise, that I personally find inherently ridiculous.
Indeed... yes, that's very clearly always been your chosen interpretation, however for pretty much everyone else at the .org (who didn't feel the need to complain about nor troll the thread!) that was never the case nor the intention, I can assure you of that. Those kind of threads were made for years before you came along and none felt threatened by them, no one who liked to tell others how the game should be played felt that anyone was telling himself or others how the game should be played and got his knickers in a twist over it...
I would say that you trolled the thread, because you, by your own admission, despise the posters you named - anyone reading the thread can see that... and one only has to read your comments above - your disdain of the posters in question, etc on display for all to see...
Both the topic, the people involved in such activities and the moderation I was provided there.
So the source of the resentment towards the moderator (Martok) is revealed...?
So I made my 3rd post there, with all that in mind... That post got censured and edited by Drone, which I think was a weak, questionable and overprotective call, and I said so.
Well, you posted some rather vindictive comments about absent members in a resurrected 10 year old thread... but don't worry, we've gotten over it... no hard feelings and all that...
But once again airing your opinions (your dislike and resentment towards those posters - and now here it would also appear the moderator - of 10 years previous...!?) Maybe you could have expressed your distaste for "iron man rules", without getting into all that... is that possible? Hence perhaps the moderator's "call" (even though I think that "call" was unwarranted - better to leave it intact and let the reader judge/react...)
I would say, look for posts made by those same posters in threads relating to your modding project and show where those posters have trolled and poured scorn all over your efforts...?
So far as I can tell, no one in fact tells anyone how they should play the game except you... You piss all over such threads... getting them closed is a bonus I suppose, probably because they don't fit your own personal views of how the games should be played.
Did i say sociopath (https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/5-types-people-who-can-ruin-your-life/201803/how-spot-sociopath-in-3-steps) ?
Sorry, i meant to say ridicoulous sociopath (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sociopath) :yes:
Where is Martok by the way? Its a good thing you do these things aXXXie and you bring us all together again, for old time's sake.. bless you laddie:2thumbsup:
In short,
The relevant thread has been re-opened by the administration - the matter is thus officially resolved. Both of you have failed to forward any actual evidence to back up your primary claims about me that supposedly tied me to the relevant thread somehow. I have already clearly explained that DEB8 is not my alt-account, and that I have no alts, or that I have no problems with the existence of such threads in general or that thread in particular - as was suggested by you two. That is what is relevant here. The administration can formally corroborate all this via IP-numbers, if necessary. Take it up with them, if you must... I have already wasted enough time on you and your conspiracy, as it is...
Instead, I say this... Enjoy the re-opened cliffton-thread, that I never was a party in... Post: 48 (there) is good for instance, build on that... A variant of that idea, would be to never betray alliances - I use that one all the time. That rule works fine for me. I'm sure there are other potential rules and possibilities beyond that too, probably some good ones as well... Anyways, I will leave you to it....
- A
In short,
The relevant thread has been re-opened by the administration - the matter is thus officially resolved. Both of you have failed to forward any actual evidence to back up your primary claims about me that supposedly tied me to the relevant thread somehow. I have already clearly explained that DEB8 is not my alt-account, and that I have no alts, or that I have no problems with the existence of such threads in general or that thread in particular - as was suggested by you two. That is what is relevant here. The administration can formally corroborate all this via IP-numbers, if necessary. Take it up with them, if you must... I have already wasted enough time on you and your conspiracy, as it is...
Instead, I say this... Enjoy the re-opened cliffton-thread, that I never was a party in... Post: 48 (there) is good for instance, build on that... A variant of that idea, would be to never betray alliances - I use that one all the time. That rule works fine for me. I'm sure there are other potential rules and possibilities beyond that too, probably some good ones as well... Anyways, I will leave you to it....
- A
Thank you - for one more time - that you're blessing us with your precious time aXXXie..:bow:
All good and well, yet one thing has not been cleared yet, DEB8's whereabouts.. i won't be surprised if he shows up after i'm gone, and all the while was researching some rare parrot species in Sumatra or was having open heart surgery, right after he trolled a thread out of existence for the second time on the same topic that i've heavily participated and you.. how shall i put this mildly?.. errm..lets say, you find 'ridicoulous'..?~:rolleyes:
..Or perhaps - who knows - is having a holiday in Sweden - really pictoresque this time of year i guess - somewhere near you perhaps even..~:)
By the way: just a piece of advice - dont get so reeled up to defend your prestige in the eyes of your mod 'clientelle' right now - cause in this some may perceive you are giving yourself away..
if you are a man of integrity and honesty - as you often portray yourself to be - i guess, people would know this and never associate you with what i [and certain facts] allude..
..unless of course you have shown over the years to be on the side of the exact opposite [than integrity and honesty], and are now wetting your panties because appearances and my interpretation of them would seem to the eyes of many people to match :2thumbsup:..
In any case, happy new year aXXXie.. it certainly started well for me matey~:)
Here's another thread that DEB8 and aXXXie appear "well"[too "well" perhaps?!] in it "together":
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/3516-When-you-are-oda-do-you-actually-use-a-lot-of-yari-ashigaru?p=2053674267&viewfull=1#post2053674267
watch how it all unfolds folks in that thread too[they double team Reluctant Samurai basically on ANOTHER thread resurection as in the deadly sins - "training" perhaps?!].. just for the sake of argument ~:)
aXXXie..even you have to admit it matey - for someone you just said you "dont know" you really go hand in glove in so many - emotionally charged to you - instances buddy.. he appears almost like your other.. half it seems..:love:
By certain appearances DEB8 seems to be aXXXie's kagemusha [double] in the sword dojo forum.. perhaps aXXXie was learning to play shoggie, but didn't wanted us to know that such an accomplished MTW modder was.. lagging a bit behind in that..~;)
If that was so, later on the account appears to have came in handy for other things too..~:) like the SINS thread..and now the clifton thread.. just sayin'.. silly old me..~:)
kudos to caravel for digging this out and to Reluctant Samurai for remembering it..thank you folks..~:)
I have no problems with the existence of such threads in general or that thread in particular - as was suggested by you two.
Agreed. The threads are not the issue, it's the posters you absolutely resent and despise and who are the target...
or that I have no problems with the existence of such threads in general or that thread in particular - as was suggested by you two.
See aXXXie.. its not us two who suggest this..
its your own posts, matey:
aXXXie_MTW_Sins_post_1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053746610&viewfull=1#post2053746610) & aXXXie_MTW_Sins_post_2 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053746691&viewfull=1#post2053746691) & aXXXie 1st reply here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-regarding-the-cliffton-thread-that-got-locked?p=2053789472&viewfull=1#post2053789472)
over and over and over again, its your own posts that suggest, trumpet, shout-out-loud, drip this..
again: just calm down, mate, just hold it - it'll be fine..~;)
Instead, I say this... Enjoy the re-opened cliffton-thread, that I never was a party in... Post: 48 (there) is good for instance, build on that... A variant of that idea, would be to never betray alliances - I use that one all the time. That rule works fine for me. I'm sure there are other potential rules and possibilities beyond that too, probably some good ones as well... Anyways, I will leave you to it....
that sounds so benevolent of you that its suspicious - unlike you matey..TOTAL SWITCHEROO..! no smug dismissing, no superiority, no "this is BS, i'll have none of it" or any other of your usual charmers..?!
Sounds like you are really on the ropes to me..aXXXie.. and you just want the attention of people away from the point i'm making and the reasoning i do it with.. just relax matey..take a stroll down the TWC to cool it a bit.. eh? they don't suspect anything of all this there matey..~:)
the DEB8 guy is nowhere to be seen here - appears out of the blue only for trolling as soon as a topic on iron man rules linked to that thread comes forth..
For your information - I get to see all of the posts made both here and re STW ; as I have both games and have chosen to subscribe to their forums.
Unless I have a particular interest in a thread / post , I do not post any comment. If I do post, then I will keep an eye on that thread for a few days and will always respond to anything I disagree with. So far as I can tell, that is exactly what everyone else does. My absence for the last week only reflects the fact that I had better things to do than wonder what the latest post by Caravel was.
Anyone ( including you gallum ), who suggests my reasons have any other meaning or intent, is an ignorant shit and a moronic hypocrite to boot ! Your ranting here proves this point completely !
My absence for the last week only reflects the fact that I had better things to do than wonder what the latest post by Caravel was.
Really??! and yet you had nothing better to do than troll caravel immediately and timely while the clifton thread was running and before any-one suggested you are someone's alt-account..:yes:
Anyone ( including you gallum ), who suggests my reasons have any other meaning or intent, is an ignorant shit and a moronic hypocrite to boot ! Your ranting here proves this point completely !
ESPECIALLY ME, MATE - ESPECIALLY ME:yes:
This is going downhill now, as the [according to me] alt-account will troll the thread and perhaps his account to oblivion - perhaps a cover up??! so you wont find by what means he's pulling this through??!
In any case - He's all yours - two legitimate threads GOT CLOSED FOR THIS, and aXXXie his MATEY - MIRROR IMAGE..WITH WHOM THEY GO IN ACCORD PERFECTLY..
take it away matey now - troll, bash, swear to your heart's content ~:)
I have not bothered to read much more of what is mostly ridiculous hyperbolic drivel since the post I replied to above. Suffice to say :
1. Caravel is a much nicer chap than Gallum ( Gollum as was - I believe ).
2. Axalon is also ( sometimes ). And I am NOT he.
3. Gallum remains a Shit ( and those that agree with him are Lemmings ) !
I have not bothered to read much more of what is mostly ridiculous hyperbolic drivel since the post I replied to above. Suffice to say :
1. Caravel is a much nicer chap than Gallum ( Gollum as was - I believe ).
2. Axalon is also ( mostly ). And I am not he.
3. Gallum remains a Shit ( and those that agree with him are Lemmings ) !
You're doing this better than i could have ever asked :yes: - keep at it mate, LET IT ALL OUT, ITS ME WHO FOUND YOU OUT, ME ME ME ME, FOUND YOU YOU YOU:yes:
You're doing this better than i could have ever asked :yes: - keep at it mate, LET IT ALL OUT, ITS ME WHO FOUND YOU OUT, ME ME ME ME, FOUND YOU YOU YOU:yes:
I believe you have now posted enough drivel to prove that you belong in a Lunatic asylum...
More like Snobbish drivel, you mean? ~:)
You would need to be upper class to be a snob...
Only two members were really involved in that exchange, I had not reported the thread or any posts within in it and neither had the other to my knowledge - if he had that would be rather bizarre and hypocritical.
It certainly wasn't me. Honest !
The end result and this show, is worse that the disagreement within the thread. That's the point I'm making and what you fail to recognise.
I certainly agree with that.
That mostly constructive thread is locked. In locking that thread apparently you feel you've done a good thing.
So, trolling iron man rules threads get them locked and a helpful and willing moderator aids and abets the trolls by applying the lock...
I disagree that I was Trolling. And I take offence at that comment too. If the older Thread had not been referenced, I would not even have bothered to post at all !
To replace it we now have this. Even more visible, even more stupid and pointless, presented for the "entertainment" of the entire forum, rather than just the few members involved in the niche sub forum...
Agreed.
Playing right into the hands of the individual(s) who resurrected and trolled the old thread and the individual who also felt the need to weigh in and resume spewing bile into the new thread, based on one tiny comment which was perceived as a slight.
Again - I passed comment - I did NOT Troll it.
The fact they were reading at all, the fact they they scanned for any kind of perceived offence says a lot...
Unlike this post - I did not do as you suggest. Please do not tar me with your foibles.
Why would you post in an "iron man rules" thread just to trash every idea presented [by the posters you happen to despise]?
If I despised you, you would certainly have know about it long before now. From my perspective, it sadly appears that you may despise me however...
So Axalon and DEB8 are one and the same? If so, that sheds a different light on a debate/discussion I had with "those two" in the Shogun Forum awhile back about the value of muskets:shrug:
If you think gallum is right here, you have been well and truly duped...
On topic, I find these duplicitous comments interesting:
In other words, those without sufficient intelligence can continue to make up "arbitrary and snobbish drivel" to make the game more enjoyable, OR....develop/enable a mod. Those comments are certainly a good way to "spark some screwed up drama".
Do you really think that this disagreement between me and Axalon was made up by one and the same person ?!? Man, you are seriously deluded ! What a Lemming !
ReluctantSamurai
01-15-2019, 00:01
Folks... I think it would be better to let dead dogs lie:shrug:
Otherwise...it's muskets at ten paces.......:rifle:
~D
What - no apology for inanely subscribing to gallums theory ?
Hooahguy
01-15-2019, 00:09
Folks, I am locking this as it has gotten out of hand.
This is meant towards the org staff in general and those that have to do with the watchtower section in particular:
the previous, cliffton-related thread was a well behaved, well informed thread by the admission of all patrons that participated and it did nothing wrong to no one - the DEBATE [DEB8] guy highjacked it quite clearly at a particular timing towards a confrontatinal pre-destined direction that seems to suit his ends, and instead of getting him out of the thread, the thread got closed..
This is bending under pressure from one single person and i'm not even sure who that DEBATE guy really is and for whom he is DEBATING ABOUT, the way he jumps into certain particular things everytime..
Org staff of the watchtower section you are clearly going about this the wrong way it seems to me and you are digging the watchtower section's hole.. might as well call it the redux section and let axalon "moderate" it.. will make for some interesting "DEBATES"..
Too bad..:no:
[:laugh4: this is meant to be a joke, but i'm not sure at the expense of whom? sadly, its probably against the good functioning of the board and its membership - the same tactics, by the same people, lead -predictably- in the same result. So perhaps you could leave it on as locked, as a reminder of this[=same tactics by certain same people yield same results]..]
No idea why the previous thread in this forum was created there/moved there in the first place...
Now, quite honestly no idea why it was locked either...
If you post in the "main hall", you make on topic, constructive posts, then Dr Heckle/Mr Snide arrives on the scene to troll his arse off, it gets locked... this is because you responded - and on this forum responding to that kind of thing makes you equally culpable.
You're told that this is the place, then the nominated staff rep emerges from the secret forum and... locked.
Then the hilarious charade continues... ad infinitum...
... ad infinitum...
..regarding the "regarding the "regarding the "regarding the" " "..trolling by [very same] member that covers up [very another(?) same] member so said 2nd member doesn't look bad for unacceptable behaviour and no other contributions can be made on the same theme[the theme that doesn't make him look good]..:yes:
22081
Its your board - do as you please - and i've made my points in the previous thread regarding the specifics - this is the final one i want to drive home - ie the situation still goes on.. :bow:
PS watch this space below after i'm gone, for certain "replies"..:laugh4:
They might (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-regarding-the-cliffton-thread-that-got-locked?p=2053789472&viewfull=1#post2053789472) come in two waves - lucky guess, the first will be something like so:
This is all BS, i will have none of it, its a ridicoulous thread by a ridicoulous poster posting ridicoulous things, i will have none of it - what? staff you are editing what i'm saying??! i didn't say anything other than that its the poster and all he says is ridicoulous - this is lame so very lame - lame lame lame.. i will have none of it..now off to dat other TW site now - having said that - i've wasted enough time - In short..
This will go on for a while, and if no desired result is reached, the second [a bit more outspoken, more liberated - not as "eloquent" :laugh4:] will hit,
like so:
This is all moronic hypocritical S**t, from a hypocrit moron and if you think it isn't you are a lemming :furious3:
At which point the thread will be closed, left as it is, without the possibility for further adding towards any points made therein.. so that - if anyone is disinterested to take again the same shit from said member-s(?!)- the whole thing needs to be repeated again - in a new thread :2thumbsup:
Seems like the story of that Sisyphus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus) guy..all greek to me :laugh4:
PPS They may also happen in reverse (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053745160&viewfull=1#post2053745160) - ie you get the "friendly" troll at first for several pages and the overbearing smug as a conclusion.. its all very flexible :laugh4:
PPPS NOTE: if no matter how many times you repeat the process you'll get the same both types of replies from the two types of poster/accounts, find then the connection between the two..HINT=consider the possibility the posters are connected in some way or are actually the very same person
At least WARMAN was fun at times..:laugh4:
PS BTW, How many years it took you to give up on him and get him out guys??!~:)
Lets see how many will last the current resident overbearing troll, and his alts.. he's tougher than WARMAN, yet WARMAN had that childlike charm that made everyone like him..:laugh4:
PPS Maybe the people over at the TWC might find these little isolated incidents interesting too.. might be worth it if someone gives them a heads up..:yes:
The silence is deafening, we are the "trolls" my friend...
The silence is deafening, we are the "trolls" my friend...
Sorry, did you say something? I can't hear a bloody thing..:laugh4:
it took an entire crusade to just get re-open a normal thread in the thread that was trolled out of existence..another normal thread that was locked to to another patron basically not agreeing to it, is still closed..
i was calling deb8 out for all of the watchtower thread, he was nowhere to be seen - aXXXie appeared - first dismissing - then placating - and when i kept calling deb8 out pointing that this was potentially giving away that they were operating in unison, he appeared at that point exactly to troll blatantly and unreservedly..
deb8s has a pretty exact and informed posting style in general in the main hall regarding the game, yet appeared totally capably trollish in the watchtower thread - the very same as when he came out in the clifton thread..his timing as well as the way he used the language of the watchtower thread [all those expressions that were used by patrons that participated in the thread] - used as bait..
deb8s behaviour - as well as aXXXies - on the whole confirms what i was saying all along.. that they operate in unison against specific members and points of view..and as cover up one to the other..
deb8 is used as the casual account of aXXXie in the main hall to more benevolently create traffic - and more aggressively against perceived oponents..
the watchower thread is again locked after the trolling - with no chance of adding any more to it - and we are back were we started.. right.. great..
The original thread is opened and sorted with, thus this is not a 'repeat'. I will also merge this thread with the one closed by Hooahguy.
Now this simply a crusade against Axalon and Deb8. It doesn't contribute to anything other than a personal vendetta against them. As I have previous stated, the accounts were investigated and there is nothing connecting Axalon or Deb8, as to quote "Heroic Efforts" were involved.
They are both separate long-standing accounts. They both use consistent IPs which are typical of ISP's in their geographical areas (no proxies, TOR, or suspicious IPs). Their geographical areas being thousand miles apart. There is nothing that connects their accounts. Compared with Kikuchiyo for example flagged as an alt account of Caravel instantly.
Even then, whilst alt accounts are generally frowned upon, action is not enforced unless the rules are broken. Punishments being applied across all accounts. Ban evasion is a clear automatic ban. Or using an alt to insult some-one, so your main account is not tarnished, ends up with a non-lenient infraction on your main account.
The Watchtower is typically seen as a safe-space as to allow people to vent and talk with minimal enforcement. This is done in the spirit of openness and allow grievances to aired and dealt with, without the 'apparent' secrecy behind closed doors. This is where you can discuss issues such as the locked thread when diplomatic efforts done privately were not resolved. However, abusing this trust placed in the membership to go on a crusade is not clearly not appropriate.
You can jokingly "play the victim" by "OOoooOOo we are the trolls now", but that is actually demonstrating insight that your behaviour is not acceptable. Just because it is 'Axalon' doesn't mean there are any exceptions. He could be the Pope or Queen Elizabeth or Judas Iscariot, doesn't matter. The behaviour is not acceptable.
You can receive this warning as "The staff have listened, mission complete" then go about enjoying the parts of the Org that you enjoy, or you could ignore it and face the consequences of those actions. You have used your 'Get Out of Jail Free' card. I leave the outcome entirely in your hands.
:bow:
The original thread is opened and sorted with, thus this is not a 'repeat'. I will also merge this thread with the one closed by Hooahguy.
You've merged it and also locked it.
Now this simply a crusade against Axalon and Deb8. It doesn't contribute to anything other than a personal vendetta against them. As I have previous stated, the accounts were investigated and there is nothing connecting Axalon or Deb8, as to quote "Heroic Efforts" were involved.
Brilliant, you've turned it around... your investigation of the accounts doesn't matter. If one is at the south pole and one at the north it's irrelevant.
You've focused on one aspect of this, one small detail in order to attack and discredit those raising these concerns, without listening to their concerns...
You also get some beans for appearing to be impartial.
Compared with Kikuchiyo for example flagged as an alt account of Caravel instantly.
Just a great, great example... you remembered that one as well and the name... long memories you have.
Congratulations on that instant flagging by the way... but it was never a secret though, there were no proxies not even a fake email. Plus I didn't have an active account at the time, so it wasn't an "alt account"... the staff knew who I was but sill played the guessing game in the watchtower.
The Watchtower is typically seen as a safe-space as to allow people to vent and talk with minimal enforcement. This is done in the spirit of openness and allow grievances to aired and dealt with, without the 'apparent' secrecy behind closed doors. This is where you can discuss issues such as the locked thread when diplomatic efforts done privately were not resolved. However, abusing this trust placed in the membership to go on a crusade is not clearly not appropriate.
You're blind to the actual crusade here...
You can jokingly "play the victim" by "OOoooOOo we are the trolls now", but that is actually demonstrating insight that your behaviour is not acceptable.
Brilliant psychoanalysis, but not quite, I see it still goes on...
I'm ok with my behaviour because I'm not the self important admin of a computer games forum... I'm honest and open - you are not, I'm not using a secret forum for confer before sending out a solitary rep to deliver a pre-planned response... that's the huge difference between you and I.
or you could ignore it and face the consequences of those actions. You have used your 'Get Out of Jail Free' card. I leave the outcome entirely in your hands.
Your empty threats mean nothing. So you can ban me? Honestly go ahead... it's really no skin off my nose. Almost everyone of my generation has left this site, I have already joined them, you really can't threaten or do anything to me, so don't delude yourself further.
There's no hard feelings, if that's what you have to do, just do it.
Originally posted by Beskar
The original thread is opened and sorted with, thus this is not a 'repeat'. I will also merge this thread with the one closed by Hooahguy.
Now this simply a crusade against Axalon and Deb8. It doesn't contribute to anything other than a personal vendetta against them. As I have previous stated, the accounts were investigated and there is nothing connecting Axalon or Deb8, as to quote "Heroic Efforts" were involved.
They are both separate long-standing accounts. They both use consistent IPs which are typical of ISP's in their geographical areas (no proxies, TOR, or suspicious IPs). Their geographical areas being thousand miles apart. There is nothing that connects their accounts. Compared with Kikuchiyo for example flagged as an alt account of Caravel instantly.
Even then, whilst alt accounts are generally frowned upon, action is not enforced unless the rules are broken. Punishments being applied across all accounts. Ban evasion is a clear automatic ban. Or using an alt to insult some-one, so your main account is not tarnished, ends up with a non-lenient infraction on your main account.
The Watchtower is typically seen as a safe-space as to allow people to vent and talk with minimal enforcement. This is done in the spirit of openness and allow grievances to aired and dealt with, without the 'apparent' secrecy behind closed doors. This is where you can discuss issues such as the locked thread when diplomatic efforts done privately were not resolved. However, abusing this trust placed in the membership to go on a crusade is not clearly not appropriate.
You can jokingly "play the victim" by "OOoooOOo we are the trolls now", but that is actually demonstrating insight that your behaviour is not acceptable. Just because it is 'Axalon' doesn't mean there are any exceptions. He could be the Pope or Queen Elizabeth or Judas Iscariot, doesn't matter. The behaviour is not acceptable.
You can receive this warning as "The staff have listened, mission complete" then go about enjoying the parts of the Org that you enjoy, or you could ignore it and face the consequences of those actions. You have used your 'Get Out of Jail Free' card. I leave the outcome entirely in your hands.
:bow:
Its the responses and timing of the responses of teh posters involved [deb8/axalon] that give them away [likely being the same person] Beskar - during 3 related [and plenty of others it would appear] threads:
1. the MTW DEADLY SINS thread [opened by me in the closing of 2008 and resurrected by deb8 in 2017] (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2093125&viewfull=1#post2093125)
2. the Clifton thread [opened by a new member in the closing of 2018] (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153680-Any-suggested-house-rules-to-make-the-game-more-challenging-%28VI-expansion%29?p=2053787759&viewfull=1#post2053787759)
3. the watchtower thread [spawned by the locking of the clifton thread due to being trolled aggressively by deb8] (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789260&viewfull=1#post2053789260)..
So, just to put things into perspective, for anyone not familiar with the whole story..
[Threads made by same people on same topic get locked after trolling by same people]
1. the Sins thread was opened by me in the closing of 2008 and has contributions by Caravel and others.. the whole thread was discussing iron man rules in order to level the game against the AI.. axalon had participated in that thread originally - apparently had gotten an infraction as he was very hostile against the points being made in the thread..
The thread was resurrected by deb8 in my absence during 2017 and was mostly trashed [with monolectic statements] by him and in conclusion axalon [with personal insults and demeaning] as well.. the moderator [drone] tried to pull axalon's reins in the trashing but was being told basically off - he ended up with locking the thread..
2. the clifton thread [ON THE VERY SAME TOPIC AS THE SINS THREAD AND WITH A LINK TO IT] was opened by a completely new member - clifton - in the closing of 2018 that wanted to discuss house rules. caravel gave many clues to the new member and a link to the closely related to the new thread's content SINS thread.. deb8 appeared and aggressively picked on caravel to the point that i re-appeared after a 6.5 years absence and deb8 dissapeared.. the thread started thriving up to a point that deb8 - while i was not online appeared and picked up on caravel even more aggressively than before with straight out confrontational trolling.. drone - locked the thread..
3. the watchtower thread was opened by me in january 2019 - immediately after the locking of the clifton thread, to discuss the closing of the clifton thread and request the thread being cleared by deb8s trolling and re-opened. It also alluded that deb8 may be axalon as they now suspiciously try to close thraeds on the same topic by the same people.. the staff played what appeared to be delaying/stalling tactics to get me off the back - while half admiting this was a mistaken call - after much pressure by me the clifton thread got re-opened and cleared of deb8.. at that point axalon appeared initially to dismiss, later to placate and divert attention of the point that was being made: ie that he has a pathological grudge against certain posters and their topics..deb8 was nowhere to e found.. and after being called out several times by me, appeared finally to.. also troll this thread into a close..
From ALL THIS IS CLEAR THAT: axalon has a grudge against the specific topic and against me[gollum], caravel and anyone who might actually discuss or support it/and us. It also raises the question that deb8, that appears to mirror axalon and his fancies and works towards his ends, may be his alt account..
[IP's as conclusive proof for the existence of alt accounts]
..no modder - had he done that - with an account constantly under the cross heirs of the staff due to the mod would make that easy for you to spot..which is why axalon trumpets that now..
I have already clearly explained that DEB8 is not my alt-account, and that I have no alts, or that I have no problems with the existence of such threads in general or that thread in particular - as was suggested by you two. That is what is relevant here. The administration can formally corroborate all this via IP-numbers, if necessary. Take it up with them, if you must...
had someone done that - he would have done it as to be his alibi, not his nail in the coffin - which the staff could have have found out long before anyone else in the forum notices clues that give it away..
..the fact that you can't find how this may be happening doesn't conclusively mean that it can't or doesn't happen.. since you seem to know this, perhaps you should tone the conclusive tone of the response a bit..
[B][wathtower thread clues]
as i wrote previously axalon moves in first [when deb8 that was involved in the closing of the clifton thread that spawned the watchtower thread was nowhere to be seen despite called out] the watchtower thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789260&viewfull=1#post2053789260)[right after your answer [#39 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789461&viewfull=1#post2053789461)], to set the tone] to manipulate the impressions with his "prestigious dismissivness"intially smugly and impolitely dimsissing and - [supposedly] leaving (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789472&viewfull=1#post2053789472) - which is what he usually 95% of the time does - to come back a few posts later - making an about/180degree turn, to placate and divert attention (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789543&viewfull=1#post2053789543).. this about turn is like a solar eclipse for aXXXie standards - [I]pretty rare, all the more so when i am involved, as i'm sure you'll have noticed by now..
axalon moves from:
. What is true is that I do think that Caravel, Gollum (and Martok) are indeed ridiculous people - just look at this thread. in the first response, to:
I have no problems with the existence of such threads in general or that thread in particular - as was suggested by you two. - :laugh4: - his posts [#53 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053746610&viewfull=1#post2053746610) & #65 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053746691&viewfull=1#post2053746691)] in the sins thread totally discredit this..
Its interesting that Martok is also targeted now - in his absence - drone buddy, seems you're next mate, is this why you always back down?..
deb8 has been called out by me in several instances in the watchtower thread [posts: 1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789260&viewfull=1#post2053789260), 11 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789322&viewfull=1#post2053789322), 26 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789390&viewfull=1#post2053789390), 42 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789496&viewfull=1#post2053789496), 46 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789545&viewfull=1#post2053789545)] and came out immediately after the last one [post 46] when it was clear axalon was being discredited by his absence and only his appearance would have toned this down..until then nowhere to be seen depsite having been him that did the trolling that resulted in the [clifton] thread closing and being alluded to be an alt acount..
When he finally did appear, he went on to troll to his heart's content - there was no real discussion or anything..his 'excuse' that he had better to do than bother with caravel is..totally discredited by his actions-deb8 trolled aggressively caravel in the clifton thread that was thriving..while i was not online..deb8 logged in in several instances before replying to the watchtower thread and logged out every time he saw me.. he wanted to start his reply without me online..
deb8 is pretty 'sane' and actually very exact and informed when posting about the game, in several threads in the main hall..but behaved like a complete and pretty nasty troll [using apparent naivete] in the watchtower thread..and a very clever one too.. watch how he played with the expressions used in the various instances in all these exchanges, he used:
"drivel" - used sarcastically, from axalon's snobish drivel (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053746610&viewfull=1#post2053746610), in the sins thread
"hyberbolic rant" - mirroring ludens in the watchtower thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789354&viewfull=1#post2053789354) and so get me 'worked up'
"duped" - [used probably sarcastically]- its from a post in my mod thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/132434-The-Caravel-Mod?p=2053257284&viewfull=1#post2053257284) that i linked in. It has a fix for the BGs suicidal behaviour - something aXXXie doesn't want you to know that i did and publicised - [B][I]probably because he's using it since then in his mod too :laugh4:
IF, axalon=deb8 - this is incredibly clever trolling masqueraded as false naivete - using the naivete as a screen to unleash under its guise his frustrated spite in an effort to get me worked up under your[the staff] very nose..~;)
And then there was the personal tone and abusive wording..towards of course [accidentally, i'm sure] yours trully :yes: - no comment needed all very clear, if its aXXXie and especially if i'm right and he risks being exposed - or would have to tone down the deb8/aXXXie collaborations in teh future..
..even the theme of the abuse used by deb8 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789557&viewfull=1#post2053789557)
"including you", echoes axalon's (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789472&viewfull=1#post2053789472)
"this wont cut with me".. aXXXie mate, dont get worked up that people take my word at face value.. its because i wear my heart on my sleeve, treat all well and fairly, speak the truth and move about with regard to others - all these things you mostly dont do mate..:yes:
What's also very interesting, is how deb8 and axalon never appeared in the watchtower thread together.. obviously - if they are the same person - would be extra work to make it appear natural and not give any more clues away, so it would have been avoided - conveniently, and the two reconvene [which is their usual mode - see many main hall threads..] long after i'm gone..:yes: impressions in such threads last forever, and dear aXXXie chooses wisely only those that benefit him -never something that could hurt him in the future.. pretty interesting :yes:
was deb8 reprimanted for the trolling in the wachtower thread by the way??!
[clifton thread clues]
the same he[deb8] did in the clifton thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153680-Any-suggested-house-rules-to-make-the-game-more-challenging-%28VI-expansion%29?p=2053787759&viewfull=1#post2053787759) [posts removed so now i can't showcase] - with a different style [than in the sins thread] he trolled it aggressively and timely to oblivion..he let some water run after my re-appearance as not to give target and then, when i wasn't logged in he aggressively picking on caravel that he now rather likes (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789561&viewfull=1#post2053789561):laugh4:
axalon didnt appear in the clifton thread, because i immediately pin-pointed him in anything else but name (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153680-Any-suggested-house-rules-to-make-the-game-more-challenging-%28VI-expansion%29?p=2053788853&viewfull=1#post2053788853)..and everyone picked up on that including drone (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153680-Any-suggested-house-rules-to-make-the-game-more-challenging-%28VI-expansion%29?p=2053788888&viewfull=1#post2053788888) so someone else had to spoil the fun as otherwise it would have been too obvious - since they[?] know they[?] can always count on your staff for locking the threads they troll..[troll "accidentally" always on the same points, by the same posters :laugh4:]
axalon - completely by coincidence obviously, trumpeted the fact [that he wasn't involved in the clifton thread]:
Enjoy the re-opened cliffton-thread, that I never was a party in... , you guessed it: in his placating [watchtower thread] response that tried to divert attention..
[Sins thread clues]
you can see how i get a "warning" by drone in the clifton thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153680-Any-suggested-house-rules-to-make-the-game-more-challenging-%28VI-expansion%29?p=2053788888&viewfull=1#post2053788888), not to tread there - because drone [I]knows i will subside - which i jokingly as ever do (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153680-Any-suggested-house-rules-to-make-the-game-more-challenging-%28VI-expansion%29?p=2053788903&viewfull=1#post2053788903).. compare aXXXie when he gets a little editing after plenty of dirty demolishing/trashing by him and [you guessed it] deb8 of absent members in an 8 year old resurrected in 2017 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053745160&viewfull=1#post2053745160) thread [MTW DEADLY SINS - started by me in the closing of 2008 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2093125&viewfull=1#post2093125)]: aXXXie demolishing Sins thread and its posters (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053746610&viewfull=1#post2053746610) then_
drone trying to pull aXXXie's reins in the sins thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053746676&viewfull=1#post2053746676) and finally_ aXXXie's trashing drone and the thread/posters reply (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053746691&viewfull=1#post2053746691)
all the while a certain deb8 runs circles around anyone supporting the Sins thread [that he resurrected to trash with monolectic statements] and the points it makes.. he interestingly collaborates with axalon, helping him to mention certain things about certain "ridicoulous" and absent people, as well as giving him a reason to comment conclusively "in retrospect" and to debunk [!] [their words] them and their points:yes: (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/110893-MTW-DEADLY-SINS?p=2053746656&viewfull=1#post2053746656) - [I]notice how mature is deb8 in that post, how cleverly sharp are his comments - nothing like the naive "awkward" troll in the watchtower thread - and how well they mirror each other:love: - like echo in the mountains:yes:..all coincidence obviously..and then??! you guessed it: the thread gets locked :2thumbsup:
[Having to go through strains to get a normal thread on topic only when one person is trolling it, continuously over time]
As far as going back to places of the forums we enjoy we were doing just that as we always have been - it was your staff's mistaken/placating to trolling call that got them closed - on the same topic, over a few years, after the same patrons troll them..
and it took one and a half thread pages[you finally took action in the watchtower thread at post #39 - and "apologised" [you put the apology part in the edit.. it wasn't part of the response, just an afterthought for diplomacy's sake] for being late while all the while the moderators were keeping me at bay and so by dragging it to keep it all sleeping - thanks for the apologies matey :laugh4:] and me not backing down to any tricks you staff had up your sleeve to keep this sleeping - despite what i was saying being teh obvious - ie that there was nothing wrong with the clifton thread[equally with the sins thread], just with a single poster of it.. but you guys knew that - hence why you locked the thread and played it down afterwards as not to open what amounts from your point of view to a can of worms.. the same you do now - put it to sleep..
no hard feelings - i - in many respects, understand you..:bow: NOT THE PLACATING PART TO SOMETHING THAT ITS OBVIOUSLY WRONG FOR THE ENTIRE BOARD THOUGH..
the whole forum is now placating an aggressive, two-faced, sociopathic (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sociopath) troll and an account with whom they operate like two hands of the same person in tone, and timing and scope in a number of threads against specific people/points of view [and its not just me and caravel - reluctant samurai, girlandir, tyberious, stazi on occasion and plenty of others have been targeted over the years]..
[B][Rivalry]
as far as the rivalry is concerned, i'll tell you what: nor i - nor caravel [nor Martok since aXXXie mentioned him]- started it nor maintained it - ever - and anyone not an alt account of aXXXie will tell you that..
When axalon first appeared (early fall 2008 - if memory serves) in the MTW section [which due to the membership - the leading patrons was THE PLACE TO BE for all things MTW] of the org, everyone treated him in the same way we treated all: helpfully, welcomingly, nicely, fairly.. we all quickly realised that axalon wasn't interested in any of that.. axalon wanted to be [I]correct and better than anyone else, even on occasions that this couldn't or wouldn't happen.. if he was proven wrong or had to back down, he would be furious..sulk and hold a grudge FOR EVER.. and that is still the case.. he also proved incredibly possessive.. he wasn't inetersted in sharing anything, and always had to have the last word and be correct and vindicated.. its always black and white with him - his way or the highway - and if he can't completely impose this, its all macchinations and manipulation to maneuver into position and nothing more..
we all became painfully aware that axalon wasn't interested in being part of the community, axalon wanted to dominate the community, supplant it - and by now he does that with the entire forum wherever its to his interest..
Over time, he abandoned any meaningful discourse and turned into a bulldozer on the outside - rude, overbearing, totally smug with a foul air of authority.. by now, anything he says or writes is only to manipulate and dominate.. appearances is all he ever cares about, which says it all..
Having to be this way [with the axalon account], to promote his mod and political agenda around it and ambitions, it would make perfect sense to have a "casual" newby type account - with which to relax, be able to actually ask and discuss things and not having to care if he's proven wrong, and also use as backup or for the sake of "convenience" whenever necessary..~;)
and plenty of deb8/axalon collaborations/co-appearances - some benevolent and some [very] malevolent appear to corroborate all this..~:)
There were chapter after chapter after chapter of bad blood in his endless quest for domination.. the feud with Tyberious - another modder that appeared at the same time as him [misnomer, he basically just trashed the poor unsuspected guy and got him litteraly out of commission..], when he got demoted from moderator in the TWC, and in endless occasions here.. we've lost count.. you talk to me about feuds? - who is the common factor in all the feuds in the MTW land? You guessed it its aXXXie.. axalon and tyberious, axalon and gollum, axalon and caravel, axalon and Martok, axalon and.. basically everyone else [and especially other modders for..obvious reaons..:laugh4:] - EXCEPT DEB8 OF COURSE:laugh4: ..
maybe you are going about this the wrong way and give him every now and then a good temporary ban to cool him off instead of rising the placation level to the point that you lock threads that even allude to his presence and/or dislike of the topic and posters like the clifton/sins threads??!.. - just saying..
[notice how staff and membership dread even at the mentioning of him regarding a topic everyone knows he doesn't like - yet its completely legitimate and at the right forum, its his presence that creates the dread..: drone in the clifton thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153680-Any-suggested-house-rules-to-make-the-game-more-challenging-%28VI-expansion%29?p=2053788888&viewfull=1#post2053788888), drone in the watchtower thread #6 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789272&viewfull=1#post2053789272), drone in the watchtower thread #10 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789287&viewfull=1#post2053789287), Stazi in the watchtower thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789263&viewfull=1#post2053789263)
this all results from the constant half-coveted bullying of everyone and everything he doesn't like..]
the fact that my/our threads are resurrected to get trolled 8 years after they were made and in my absence says it all..and when a new thread, by a new member on the same topic is also immediately trolled [by the same DEBATE_Y guy:laugh4:] - its hillarious:laugh4: - it makes the whole board look like a nasty place - not to mention that i wouldn't want to be clifton.. being a pawn on someone's on going vengeful agenda..
In 2012, before the org awards, axalon - without any provocation withdrew his mod from participating in the voting, and posted a drool of hate towards me, which he then proceeded to delete..as he realised that it was doing him a disservice in his clientelle and the community in general - people were picking up on him.. Stazi certainly seen that post - as he managed to reply - and probably Andres who had been just promoted to Admin..
..my mod went on to take the award with quite a large number of voters considering participation in the voting/awards that year..
i guess he did the right thing because - had my mod won the award while his was a candidate too - he would probably have to kill himself, being such a nice balanced chap.... so its better to troll with an alt account and trash my threads and me in my absence instead..8 years later - the courageous type :yes:
axalon is in an ongoing quest to quench the forum from anything he perceives as a threat - and he went on - very methodically and calculatingly in the sins thread, with an alt account that he "built" in public face over time and that he unleashed when i was long gone and certain not to defend it..
he just never calculated that i'd be back.. and most likely got very worked up when i posted this in the clifton thread..
which leaves me with very little else to do ,since a 10 years lapse has not been enough to cure the animosities and hatreds, than having to take all said animosity and hatred as a compliment.. its probably what got the thread troll-closed..
all this is just another chapter in this story..
everything points to the fact that you are dealing with a very methodical and nasty sociopath (https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/sociopath#diagnosis-and-symptoms)
aXXXie, caravel - that you now that i'm back started to like - said you should ask them to change your medication, he said its not working matey..:no::yes:
[nothing left to do..]
..so when someone-s who is rivalling me when i dont him , targets me by any means and you play along to his means that go against forum rules - what am i to do then??!
..its ok Beskar: keep your jail cards and - as far as i am concerned your jail too..
PS the thanks in this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/153710-Cliffton-thread-Axalon-Deb8?p=2053789581&viewfull=1#post2053789581) post, says it all :laugh4:.. aXXXie..ermm sorry i mean deb8 mate: that was the trolling i enjoyed the most..[I]really ingenious, i might even give redux a try for that:laugh4:
PPS sorry it was me of all people that found you out aXXXie.. still love you, though :yes:
Apologies for the double posting, it was accidental..
Apologies for the double posting, it was accidental..
That is okay. I will respond properly to your post tonight when I have adequate opportunity to.
Your investigation of the accounts doesn't matter. If one is at the south pole and one at the north it's irrelevant. You've focused on one aspect of this, one small detail in order to attack and discredit those raising these concerns, without listening to their concerns...
This in paradoxical in the sense because we listened to your concerns, we investigated it. We have found no evidence which links both together. More accurately, you don't like the conclusion given and that is not the same as not being listened to.
You also get some beans for appearing to be impartial.
The aim to be fair and impartial comes with the territory. We make mistakes but the goal is there to create fairness for everyone.
Just a great, great example... you remembered that one as well and the name... long memories you have.
Congratulations on that instant flagging by the way... but it was never a secret though, there were no proxies not even a fake email. Plus I didn't have an active account at the time, so it wasn't an "alt account"... the staff knew who I was but sill played the guessing game in the watchtower.
Unfortunately this is where you project your own persecution. No one to my knowledge, most certainly me, don't hold any grudges or issues with you. To my knowledge, Andres whilst he was an admin and I believe is a friend to you was trying to reconcile any issues with you, which included access to the staff area due to previous contributions which you declined. You really do need to let this idea go.
As for 'long memories' it says right next to your name "other accounts" and that is just from the forums automatic software and zero effort required. It also says next to your name 'requires email validation' and a look at your account (a two second job) tells me you purposefully now locked yourself out of your own account by putting an invalid email address after your post.
You are going to come back to read this, and if you send us an email, I can easily give you back access to your account. I only ask, is this behaviour really an example of the sensible and reasonable gentleman you protray as? I know you are better than that, so don't sell yourself short
I'm ok with my behaviour because I'm not the self important admin of a computer games forum... I'm honest and open - you are not, I'm not using a secret forum for confer before sending out a solitary rep to deliver a pre-planned response... that's the huge difference between you and I.
Where do you come up with this Caravel? Genuinely.
This goes into my earlier statement, there is nothing closed or secretative at all. The Org does not employ script writers, there has been no 'conferring' as implied conspiracy sense. There is no secret anti-caravel league. As for my reply, I am currently on a short break in a 13.5 hour busy hospital shift on my phone doing this quick reply to you and arguably wasting my time doing so, but here I am, trying to reach out to you regardless.
Your empty threats mean nothing. So you can ban me? Honestly go ahead... it's really no skin off my nose. Almost everyone of my generation has left this site, I have already joined them, you really can't threaten or do anything to me, so don't delude yourself further.
There's no hard feelings, if that's what you have to do, just do it.
You went out of line and you know this. There isn't an argument as we agree. So where is the issue?
You can choose your self-imposed exile or just drop us an email and we will return access to your account. As I said in the last message, this is entirely your choice.
I have no personal problems with you and if you decide this is where you part, I hope life treats you well. :bow:
That is okay. I will respond properly to your post tonight when I have adequate opportunity to.
I will be interested to read your reply - but if you dont have the time or dont want, its ok.. all i'm trying to say all the while since i re-appeared is the following:
this place [in general and especially in the MTW section] used to be like this:
_________________________________ 22090__which is why i was totally sold to it..
just - please - dont let it become like this:22091
:bow:
Guess who...
Missed my flight so a known IP will have to do... damn..
This in paradoxical in the sense because we listened to your concerns, we investigated it. We have found no evidence which links both together. More accurately, you don't like the conclusion given and that is not the same as not being listened to.
I was not the one raising those "concerns". My concerns were very different, you've certainly not listened to those.
Unfortunately this is where you project your own persecution.
Brilliant... more of the psychoanalysis...
No one to my knowledge, most certainly me, don't hold any grudges or issues with you. To my knowledge, Andres whilst he was an admin and I believe is a friend to you was trying to reconcile any issues with you, which included access to the staff area due to previous contributions which you declined. You really do need to let this idea go.
So at the first opportunity - "Kikuchiyo", then onto your further analysis...
(To set the record straight - access to the staff area was refused, repeatedly, so you have been misinformed just a bit there...)
I have not sought to dredge all that up - that's entirely your doing...
It also says next to your name 'requires email validation' and a look at your account (a two second job) tells me you purposefully now locked yourself out of your own account by putting an invalid email address after your post.
Correct, not for he first time... nor the only account...
You are going to come back to read this
As I said - brilliant.
and if you send us an email, I can easily give you back access to your account. I only ask, is this behaviour really an example of the sensible and reasonable gentleman you protray as? I know you are better than that, so don't sell yourself short
I repeat that I have not "misbehaved" in any way. Others have, repeatedly and the staff let all of that slide for years...
You have taken a great deal of time to reply to me and slyly bring up some past misdemeanours, but you have done zero with regards to the real troll ('trolls' if you will - I stated from the off that I couldn't care less if they're one and the same...).
This goes into my earlier statement, there is nothing closed or secretative at all. The Org does not employ script writers, there has been no 'conferring' as implied conspiracy sense. There is no secret anti-caravel league.
Again brilliant..
As for my reply, I am currently on a short break in a 13.5 hour busy hospital shift on my phone doing this quick reply to you and arguably wasting my time doing so, but here I am, trying to reach out to you regardless.
So sorry to have taken up your time Mr Self Important Administrator of a kids game site with a day job to boot...
I also registered a whole new account just to reply to you
You went out of line and you know this.
You need to stop telling people what they know/think... your role here has gone to your head.
I have no personal problems with you and if you decide this is where you part, I hope life treats you well. :bow:
No hard feelings, but we just don't agree, on too may levels.
As for the rest - gollum said it all in that long post. Nothing to add...
Its the responses and timing of the responses of teh posters involved [deb8/axalon] that give them away [likely being the same person]
[IP's as conclusive proof for the existence of alt accounts]
I will respond to this one straight off the bat, Deb8 and Axalon are not the same person.
I won't divulge personal details and I will refuse all requests, but when you operate a website, you have access to a lot of information from times people access the website, how long, from where they access it from (directly or via a link), and further such information. People also volunteer information when they sign up to the Org. For example, secret question and secret answer. This is used to confirm identity in case of an issue. So people will share things like their street name, the name of their dog, etc. There is also "Date of Birth" and whilst you see today that "Today's Birthdays:" people have given full information informing us they are 52 years old for example.
People can also tie in information such as steam names or facebook information to their account. In a manner which is quite frightening when pieced together, can end up giving far more information.
Back in 2008, these privacy concerns were even more relaxed and social media was not as big of a thing back then. People use their person names when signing up to websites such as joe.bloggs@hotmail.com. Now some of these can be faked or an alias used, others can choose not to disclose information, we can still gather a rough picture.
Now for a troll account, you would think privacy measures would be used. Both Deb8 and Axalon have not. As such, I have a clear picture of their personal information and they are separate individuals living thousands of miles apart. I have even seen their homes on Google maps. So for example, I know Deb8 has lived in the same house since 2008. Whilst Axalon has his primary location at home, but has accessed the Org when away.
Given the information, such as them both accessing the Org at the same places whilst thousands miles apart, I am safe that they are both separate individuals.
Now, are they friends who regularly chat on skype or discord or steam? No idea and it doesn't matter, no rules against that.
[Threads made by same people on same topic get locked after trolling by same people]
2. the clifton thread [ON THE VERY SAME TOPIC AS THE SINS THREAD AND WITH A LINK TO IT]
This has been brought up and we are aware of this issue. Whilst I never access the MTW area myself unless circumstances force me there, measures have been done to allow the second 'Clifton thread' on the subject to be open and with the view it is allowed to continue happily without interference which I will keep an eye on myself time to time. (Please report if it goes side-tracked for faster notice by myself).
I also read through it today and it looks like the thread is healthily on track and looking good. It was great to see.
3. the watchtower thread
When threads go off-topic and spiral between posters. It is usual rule of thumb to lock and close topics. In this circumstance, this 'usual rule of thumb' was a hasty call based on how major it spiralled out of control within an hour and a half due to the ability of the moderators involved not able to have access to deal with it appropriately at that time. Before they were able to deal with the matter, it was brought to the Watchtower where frustration was vented towards them. As I thought the matter was being handled, I did not intervene, till I noticed it still continued then I stepped in myself to remedy the grievances, allowing that topic to be re-opened and applying sanctions.
The Watch-tower thread then started to spiral against Deb8 and Axalon with attacks from yourself and Caravel. This led to Hooahguy making the call to close the thread as it was inappropriate.
From ALL THIS IS CLEAR THAT: axalon has a grudge against the specific topic and against me[gollum], caravel and anyone who might actually discuss or support it/and us. It also raises the question that deb8, that appears to mirror axalon and his fancies and works towards his ends, may be his alt account..
[Rivalry]
Over time, he abandoned any meaningful discourse and turned into a bulldozer on the outside - rude, overbearing, totally smug with a foul air of authority.. by now, anything he says or writes is only to manipulate and dominate.. appearances is all he ever cares about, which says it all..
As you say, there are grudges involved and unfortunately, life is like that, people hold grudges and people don't like people. I have never given an infraction to someone who dislikes me on the basis they dislike me. We only sanction on when the behaviour breaks the rules.
So the fact Deb8 or Axalon don't like you, or vice-versus, the solution is to place them on ignore, don't respond to it, and if they break the rules, report them. The solution is not to fight it out in the topic, Watchtower or elsewhere, as if it was the Hunger games, forcing staff to intervene.
You are perfectly free to think "Axalon is a bit of a twat", you are however not allowed to post this on the forums repeatedly.
you finally took action in the watchtower thread at post #39 - and "apologised" [you put the apology part in the edit.. it wasn't part of the response, just an afterthought for diplomacy's sake] for being late while all the while the moderators were keeping me at bay and so by dragging it to keep it all sleeping - thanks for the apologies matey :laugh4:]
I regularly edit and review my posts. This is to fix errors and express myself more clearly. This is because I am aware of mistakes I make once I walked away from something then come back to it with fresh-eyes, part and parcel of my dyslexia. Therother once joked that my own personal self-edits takes up 3GB in the database itself. Reading more into my edits than that is on your own.
Guess who...
I also registered a whole new account just to reply to you
Don't worry, I won't allow it to go to this Self-Important Administer's head.
The Watch-tower thread then started to spiral against Deb8 and Axalon with attacks from yourself and Caravel. This led to Hooahguy making the call to close the thread as it was inappropriate.
You've turned this around brilliantly... Axalon/DEB8 has been allowed to troll his arse of for a decade and the staff have done nothing, except lock threads and blame those they are trolling. You, a relative newcomer, have turned up telling me how it is and you don't have even half the facts. You've spent your time on a little investigation regarding the alt accounts thing - to prove they are not the same - you've ignored the rest of it. Tell me in view of this, why should I care anymore?
The troll(s), one incarnation of which views this site and its staff with utter contempt, must be laughing.
As you say, there are grudges involved and unfortunately, life is like that, people hold grudges and people don't like people. I have never given an infraction to someone who dislikes me on the basis they dislike me. We only sanction on when the behaviour breaks the rules.
So the fact Deb8 or Axalon don't like you, or vice-versus, the solution is to place them on ignore, don't respond to it, and if they break the rules, report them.
Ax can't be ignored as he's a moderator... ;)
Advising to use the ignore list is again another example of where you have just dismissed all the concerns and placed the burden on those dealing with this character...
I have even seen their homes on Google maps.
have you looked inside?
, I am safe that they are both separate individuals.
Which is what i was saying: safe to say doesnt= absolutely certain.. then?..
The Watch-tower thread then started to spiral against Deb8 and Axalon with attacks from yourself and Caravel
??!! the watchtower thread got closed down because deb8 trolled it to oblivion after he appeared - as i said he would.. the thread didn't get derailed by me or caravel during the ex-changes with axalon - i was maybe sarcastic, but not aggressive to him - your admin moved in for the closure ONLY after deb8 appeared and not before..
have you actually read the closing of the thread?? sounds from your reply that you haven't.. if not please do, otherwise there's no point discussing..
We only sanction on when the behaviour breaks the rules.
I didn't see anyone being sanctioned in the sins thread.. i was absent.. you locked it.. me and my points discredited and insulted and your moderator told off.. case closed..
And - as i said - it took a lot of "convincing" from my part to "sanction" the obvious - ie re-open the clifton thread and clear it from trolling.. where the rules were clearly being broken by someone else and not me and everyone that was participating and having fun - isnt this what the board is all about?.. yet you didnt protect that.. as i said [over and over] it took a lot of convincing against the grain
you make it appear as if your system works clockwork - when its anything but..
You are perfectly free to think "Axalon is a bit of a twat", you are however not allowed to post this on the forums repeatedly.
i actually never wrote that anywhere in the board until now, despite axalon insulting me [and almost everyone else] over and over and over again over many years, i've left axalon in peace and never bothered him - its the reverse that didnt happen - so i guess at some point when things pile up you need to defend yourself - especially when - judging from what it took to re-open the clifton thread..
as i explained in the rivalry part above - i'm not the only one being treated this way by the specfic patron or have the same impression.. but its your board and you make the calls etc.
..had axalon left everything on the floor as i always do with him - i would welcome the co-existence and even collaboration and discussion, and in some instances we managed to almost brush that - but when an 8 year old thread of mine got spam infested, troll hijacked, trashed and i was personally insulted therein and the thread got closed - and the very same topic thread opened up by a new member, NOT ME, got trolled by the same person as the sins thread - then i guess there's very little else to do but bringing this up to the staff and membership with the hope that the rules will be finally obeyed and i will be left in peace to enjoy the boards as i please within the framework of the rules - as i always did..
Originally posted by caravel
Ax can't be ignored as he's a moderator... ;)
Advising to use the ignore list is again another example of where you have just dismissed all the concerns and placed the burden on those dealing with this character...
Sounds like that - large parts of the board are organised around him [deb8 is the main hall now] - obviously we dont weigh in political importance anymore hence the onus seems to always be on us.. its ok, that's natural..
Anyway, Beskar lets leave it here, no point going over ex-changes between us anymore [you are welcome to reply of course, just know that after this i'm off] - i made my points over and over for those interested - you seem not to either have read them or be completely disinterested to understand them.. its your board and your call..
in a way, you are right - i am not active and obviously being treated with that in mind too - i guess its a factor - not minor one.. everyone makes their choices and i've made mine and left..
axalon and others made theirs and stayed.. its naive of me to think that the board would be the place i've left or known.. different conditions/people [in the staff and membership] create different environments and everyone has to go with their choices..
..so lets leave it here.. farewell :bow:
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