Notre Dame de Paris in flame

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47941794

The current state of Notre Dame makes it a possibility that the structure of the Cathedral may collapse, although the BBC are currently downplaying this.

God have Mercy

~:mecry:

[edyzmedieval]

I am currently watching this on TV and I'm in disbelief - initially there was this contained fire in the south then it slowly took over the entire cathedral. The north tower is in danger right now.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-43258266/notre-dame-cracks-in-the-cathedral

This explains some of the underlying issues with the structure, parts of the Cathedral were being held up by wood and metal paces which may now burn or otherwise fail.

[rory_20_uk]

Even if it doesn't collapse, buttressing the remaining shell will take months if not years... the horrible decision of going quickly but less carefully or slow and methodically and hoping that time and even rain doesn't cause a collapse.

Trump can't even keep quiet on this disaster either...

~:smoking:

[Hooahguy]

The BBC is reporting that the main structure is now safe, but Im still rather upset about this. I was so looking forward to seeing it when I visited next month.

[Montmorency]

Apparently either some or most (https://thehill.com/homenews/news/439005-officials-say-notre-dames-main-structure-is-saved-and-preserved) of the artwork was saved? :freak:

Hopefully they can meticulously reconstruct what was lost and eventually the 2019 cathedral will seem just as monumentally present as the 1831 cathedral seems to us.

Also:

https://i.imgur.com/KWUnEer.jpg

[edyzmedieval]

Apparently most of the artwork is safe - relics are preserved.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well shall have to see, but the latest images show that some of the vaulting in the nave has collapsed. Like most medieval Cathedrals Notre Dame's wooden roof rested on stone vaulting, the actual ceiling of the cathedral. The vaulting exerts an outwards pressure which is countered by the inward pressure of the flying buttresses. Once the structure is weakened by fire the vaulting can collapse, which means there's no counterpoint to the flying buttresses, leading to a risk of an inward collapse of the entire nave.

This sort of things can, of course, be countered by bracing etc. or (in an emergency) possibly undermining buttresses (although this could also cause the whole structure to twist and collapse. One possible bright spot here is that Notre Dame was already undergoing huge renovations which means there should be a Cathedral architect on-site with a thorough understanding of the structure and geometry of the cathedral.

The whole structure will take days to fully cool and settle, so it could be a while before we know the true extent of the damage. Between then and now there's nothing to do but hope and pray.

[Beskar]

On the plus side, the cathedral will probably get millions in renovation funding from around the world and the government. So it will be rebuilt in its magnificent glory.

[Husar]

A new one is better than a refurbished one anyway. They can also introduce advanced materials such as fiberglass, carbon fiber and recycled ocean plastic with solar panels and windmills on top. :2thumbsup:

I mean, I'm glad no humans go hurt. Shame for the building, but it could have been worse.

[Xantan]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/16/notre-dame-fire-louis-vuitton-and-gucci-owners-give-over-300-million.html

[Strike For The South]

Sad but it will be rebuilt, just as it has before.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

On the plus side, the cathedral will probably get millions in renovation funding from around the world and the government. So it will be rebuilt in its magnificent glory.


A new one is better than a refurbished one anyway. They can also introduce advanced materials such as fiberglass, carbon fiber and recycled ocean plastic with solar panels and windmills on top. :2thumbsup:

I mean, I'm glad no humans go hurt. Shame for the building, but it could have been worse.

I made this point of facebook -

"Your cat died, but now you can get a new one that isn't blind in one eye."

Classy.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Fortunately, nobody appears to have been seriously harmed in the process.

News reports that hundreds of millions of Euros have been pledged for the reconstruction. I am sure that the reconstruction will be controversial -- such things always are.

The snarky in me wonders if the laïcité purists will insist it be rebuilt as a Temple of Reason again...

[Greyblades]

Seems the interior was mostly protected by the vaulted ceiling, only one section collapsed and was due to the spire falling on it, who knows at this point how much damage the heat did to the stonework.

[Beskar]

I made this point of facebook -

"Your cat died, but now you can get a new one that isn't blind in one eye."

Classy.

Then we remember the facts:
- the "cat" is not dead.
- the "cat" was severely in need of renovation and lacking material (money) support.
- the "cat" is now going to be repaired and rebuilt better than ever with excessive material support.
- the posts about the "cat" you were responding too was about this silver lining despite the tragedy which would ensure what is left can be enjoyed for future generations due to this outreach of support which was previously lacking.

[Montmorency]

Then we remember the facts:
- the "cat" is not dead.
- the "cat" was severely in need of renovation and lacking material (money) support.
- the "cat" is now going to be repaired and rebuilt better than ever with excessive material support.
- the posts about the "cat" you were responding too was about this silver lining despite the tragedy which would ensure what is left can be enjoyed for future generations due to this outreach of support which was previously lacking.

https://twitter.com/_theek_/status/1117895531563372544

22427
22428

[Husar]

I made this point of facebook -

"Your cat died, but now you can get a new one that isn't blind in one eye."

Classy.

Oh come on, you want to see windmills made of ocean plastic on it, too!
Plus, unlike a cat, a building doesn't have a soul. It's terrible for the objectophiles (https://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/objectophilia-fetishism-and-neo-sexuality-falling-in-love-with-things-a-482192.html) of course.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Then we remember the facts:
- the "cat" is not dead.
- the "cat" was severely in need of renovation and lacking material (money) support.
- the "cat" is now going to be repaired and rebuilt better than ever with excessive material support.
- the posts about the "cat" you were responding too was about this silver lining despite the tragedy which would ensure what is left can be enjoyed for future generations due to this outreach of support which was previously lacking.

None of which will be of any comfort to the congregation on Maundy Thursday, who now do not have a Cathedral to worship in.

Sometimes, Beskar, the person with a closer emotional connection just has the more appropriate emotional response. Obviously, you aren't having an emotional response, so would you kindly?


Oh come on, you want to see windmills made of ocean plastic on it, too!
Plus, unlike a cat, a building doesn't have a soul. It's terrible for the objectophiles (https://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/objectophilia-fetishism-and-neo-sexuality-falling-in-love-with-things-a-482192.html) of course.

Oh, Cathedrals definitely have souls.

Also, I had a thing with a visiting Dutch academic last year - she was able to help me better understand the German sense of humour, so now I can at least tell when you're trying to be funny. :smug2:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/04/16/notre-dame-fire-latest-news-paris-cathedral/

Macron thinks he can do it in five years.

The French aristocracy have already pledged 1 Billion Euros.

France is a strange place, theoretically a Republic yet at times like this it feels more like the Ancien Regime.

[Beskar]

Sometimes, Beskar, the person with a closer emotional connection just has the more appropriate emotional response. Obviously, you aren't having an emotional response, so would you kindly?

Yes, instead of "Wow, there has been a big amount in donations which will help rebuild/repair the cathedral" I will now use trigger warnings about a dead cat and reply only with "thoughts and prayers" instead.

[Husar]

None of which will be of any comfort to the congregation on Maundy Thursday, who now do not have a Cathedral to worship in.

Sometimes, Beskar, the person with a closer emotional connection just has the more appropriate emotional response. Obviously, you aren't having an emotional response, so would you kindly?

https://www.facebook.com/qaddafigongetyomomma/photos/a.161104311172935/359997214616976/?type=3&theater

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

https://www.facebook.com/qaddafigongetyomomma/photos/a.161104311172935/359997214616976/?type=3&theater

Terrible people are terrible?

No other tragic event makes this less tragic?

Sorry, I'm going to need more than just a troll link.

[Greyblades]

Communist gonna communist.

[Husar]

Terrible people are terrible?

No other tragic event makes this less tragic?

Sorry, I'm going to need more than just a troll link.

Well, you claimed that the more emotional response may be more appropriate, but who is to judge that?
It's nothing but an opinion.

I do wonder though, why people sometimes have a more emotional connection to things than to other people.
Maybe I'd cry if my house burnt down, but not having a Sunday service at the usual place, I don't know. Is it about the worship or the nice windows?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well, you claimed that the more emotional response may be more appropriate, but who is to judge that?
It's nothing but an opinion.

I do wonder though, why people sometimes have a more emotional connection to things than to other people.
Maybe I'd cry if my house burnt down, but not having a Sunday service at the usual place, I don't know. Is it about the worship or the nice windows?

Actually, I said "closer emotional connection".

The guys on that facebook page are basically the Left-Wing equivalent of Incels.

[Husar]

Actually, I said "closer emotional connection".

The guys on that facebook page are basically the Left-Wing equivalent of Incels.

So your response is not more emotional then? I wonder why you get so upset then.

I don't know that Facebook page and didn't bother to check it out, you seem to know it better than I do.

edit: UbiSoft are also giving away AC:Unity on UPlay because of this. In addition to donating 500,000€:
https://register.ubisoft.com/acu-notredame-giveaway/en-GB

Someone mentioned though, that, in France, people and corporations can get up to a 60% tax return for such donations, so a lot of these huge donations from French billionaires and corporations may largely be paid for by the public in the end.

[edyzmedieval]

Let's be honest here - a donation like this, while being of a very kind gesture and clearly from companies like LVMH and Kering it's actually very useful because they actually have very skilled artisans, is a very good tax write off.

[Brandy Blue]

Someone mentioned though, that, in France, people and corporations can get up to a 60% tax return for such donations, so a lot of these huge donations from French billionaires and corporations may largely be paid for by the public in the end.

I don't know how the cathedral was paid for when it was built in the first place, but I imagine it was paid for by royalty, nobility and the Catholic Church, all of which got their money by taxing commoners. Plus ça change.

[Greyblades]

60% being subtracted from the tax income is better than the 100 that would need to be taken if they didnt.

Hopefully the murmerings about the government planning on replacing the spire with some symbolic modern art eysore is just the rumor mill.

[Husar]

60% being subtracted from the tax income is better than the 100 that would need to be taken if they didnt.

The government footing 100% of the bill while their wealth gets taxed at 60% all the time, that's the correct combination here. ~;p


Hopefully the murmerings about the government planning on replacing the spire with some symbolic modern art eysore is just the rumor mill.

One word: Ocean plastic windmills (yes, one word: Ozeanplastikwindmühlen ~;p)

[Greyblades]

You know what, there is one design I would prefer over a restoration of the original tower:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vJsAAOSweoBa62JD/s-l300.jpg

[Montmorency]

Notre Dame (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/07/16/world/europe/notre-dame.html) fire graphical chronology

[edyzmedieval]

I saw that on NYT - a fantastic article, with some really good infographics / digital graphics. Plus I really appreciated the interviews with the firefighters with a very clear message - we were very, very close to have the Notre Dame collapse completely.

Bravery saved the day.