Ship warefare tips?

[MiniKiller]

Hey, I looked through the manual twice but it wasnt much help, any tips on the good use if ships? I have 2, I dont see the point in them, the Italians, Germans and Spainish all have tons but what are they for? thanks.

[Disco Volante]

Minikiller, you need ships in adjacent sea provinces, connected from a port in one of your provinces to any port in any other province to begin trading (brings in alot of extra income) or move troops via the sea. Furthermore, if you have ships in any sea province that is adjacent to any land province, you can invade that province with troops, however be careful in doing so as they will not be able to be withdrawn until a port is built in the conquered province.

You can also put a solitary ship in any sea province where an enemy faction has one or more of their ships to block their trade and troop movement, however, they can do the same to you Plus if you are at war with another faction and you do this they will attack your ships.

Hope this helps. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[rasoforos]

an additional tip : try to have a ship or two in every area , this will increase your trade income A LOT. i ussually divide the game map in 3 areas, atlantic , eastern and western med and i keep a 'fleet' in every one of them , ussualy thr 'fleet' has 7-8 ships and kicks in when an enemy attacks yout trade route.

[Disco Volante]

Rasoforos... so the more ships you have per sea province the more trade income you get? Sh*t I didn't know that... looks like I'll be earning 30k + per year rather than my paltry 10k at the moment http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[rasoforos]

Disco you maximise your trading income by having open traderoutes everwhere. to estsblish a traderoute you need a ship in a sea area. so by expanding early into the sea you can get a very large income fast. it does not have to do with the number of ships , it has to do with the establsihment of traderoutes , so even 1 ship per sea area would suffice. And as you said you can gain much more than 10k per with by using trade. the only problem is that prior to world domination you have many enemies and you control most of the ports so your trade income tends to fall.

[MiniKiller]

Oh so If I have a ship in on area where there is another factions ship I block their trade? thats cool, So basically just build tons of ships and send em everywere? thanks guys.

[rasoforos]

MiniKiller under normal circumstances ( alliance or neutrality) you do not block their trade, you can trade and they can trade as well. However if you are in war with a faction and you both have ships in an area then that particular traderoute is blocked and this decreases trade income. For this reason i ussually wipe out the enemy's navy as soon as possible before i attack them in land so i do not suffer reduced income because of them. to see which trade routes are open and which are blocked press 'V' while in the game map. open routes are green , blocked are red.

[MiniKiller]

Thank you

[rasoforos]

no problem . hope it helps http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[USMCNJ]

Quote[/b] (rasoforos @ Jan. 23 2003,19:25)]an additional tip : try to have a ship or two in every area , this will increase your trade income A LOT. i ussually divide the game map in 3 areas, atlantic , eastern and western med and i keep a 'fleet' in every one of them , ussualy thr 'fleet' has 7-8 ships and kicks in when an enemy attacks yout trade route.
i think this was misunderstood.
once you have the compass you can build ships that travel into the Atlantic, East Med and West Med. Keep 7-8 ships in each of those three sea regions. The rest of your trade routs should have only one ship ship. If an enemy attacks you or a storm sinks your ship (and brake your trade/invasion route) you can replace/attack with the fleet of 7-8 good ships.

[econ21]

Another tip: the Italians and Scilians seem to like piracy, so make sure you deterr this when you share a sea zone with them by having a stack of two or more ships making up your trade route in that zone. Avoids costly and pointless wars.

[Asmodeus]

I usually keep a minimum of 2 ships in sea regions where other (neutral or allied) factions also have ships - particularly choke points like the English Channel and Gibraltar.

If you attack enemy shipping, try to always have numerical superiority because it's difficult to work out how the combat attributes (e.g. Attack & Defence strength) are evaluated. If at war with a faction and they have ships in the same sea region as yours, always try to attack them first rather than let them attack you. This seems to give a much better chance of survival - whether this represents having the 'wind guage' or the element of 'surprise' i have no idea. Always stack your ships together into 'fleets' do not leave them scattered individually or they will be easily picked off.

The Captain with the highest valour will command the fleet in the same way as generals with armies - except they dont have V&V's for some reason. A good Captain can turn a humble flotila of longboats into a force to be reckoned with.

Coastal provinces that have no port cannot trade so if you are short on ships/money dont bother with these provinces. If maintaining a large trade network use larger ships e.g. Caravels to link the Ocean regions (which coastal vessels cannot traverse). This is important in war as your trading chain of coastal regions can easily be cut off by the enemy sinking ships in just one of the regions - if you also have a link via an ocean (or central Med region) then you will still be able to trade. Also as galleys and most small ships cannot cross the ocean regions only the factions that can build bigger ships can attack you there.

It is essential to rule the seas if you play the Danes or the English - and indeed very wise to which ever faction you play.



Quote[/b] ]
Come cheer up my lads 'tis to glory we steer,
To add something more to this wonderful year,
Heart of Oak are our ships, Heart of Oak are our men,
We've beat 'em before and we'll beat 'em again

[Cazbol]

For some reason fleets with different types of ships seem to work best for me in combat. I don't know why but I've frequently seen longboats plough through a multitude of caravels, even though the caravel seems like the stronger ship on paper.

The most annoying thing about naval combat is however, that you can only engage a ship in the same waters as you, provided the ship doesn't move to someplace else. This means that if you have massive fleets in every seazone, and you enemy sends his single ship to a new seazone each year, then you can never engage the ship. Instead this single ship will continue to block your trade routes. Fortunately, the ships will usually hold still at some time, but playing as Danes I frequently experienced Sicilian dromons and galleys making their from Sicily to the North Sea, passing all my fleets and not stopping until in the North Sea many years later.

[Dijeeh]

I never build ships to trade far, mainly i will have one ship in each water zone 3 zones form my ports, no more, i don't send ships across the entire map.

Why? It takes 3 years to build a ship, and that is too long, and a waste of a province you could dedicate to producing units to help in war.

Just my view, trade and ship warefare is not very good in MTW, one diplomacy thing they should have had.

[econ21]

Dijeeh - if you are abstaining for trade because you are "hardcore" then you are to be admired. But if you are saying it is a waste of a province to build ships, I've got to disagree. Once your borders are safe, I can't think of anything more cost-effective. My basic strategy in all games is to get 3 provinces dedicated to pumping out ships until I have a map-wide trade net work. The amount of income you get is staggering. Have you tried it? It's actually game-breaking, hence the proposed "no trade" hardcore rule.
If you are playing a conquer the world/rush type game, maybe you don't need to trade but for a slower game style, it's awesome.

[Lord Of Storms]

I try to field a good variety of ships if money allows , the italian firegalleys outclass the caravel, so I use cogs or carracks for the broadside engagements when I can ,as far as the trade thing whatever you think ,it is militalry sound to have a good navy, that is just my thought

[Odyssey of War]

Just a note for people who dont know:

If you want to attack a province by sea, that province must have a port and you must have a port from which to launch your army. Also, you must have sea dominance in the sea region adjacent to the enemies port, otherwise you cant send your army through their port to attack the province.

[MiniKiller]

I'm still not making profit grrr i have ships everywere and they arent brining in ANY money

[Odyssey of War]

Trading tips:

1. Make sure you have an unbroken link of ships from your port to another factions port, with no enemy ships (enemy ships being ships of factions at war with you, neutral or allianced ships are ok)along that link of ships, otherwise trade will not commence.

2. You must have a merchant and tradable goods to get any money from trade.

3. You must not be at war with the factions you want to trade with.

[Odyssey of War]

forgot one.

4. You must have tradable goods that the province you are trading with doesnt already have. No money for trading silk if the other province already has silk.

[cugel]

"Dijeeh - if you are abstaining for trade because you are "hardcore" then you are to be admired. But if you are saying it is a waste of a province to build ships, I've got to disagree. Once your borders are safe, I can't think of anything more cost-effective. My basic strategy in all games is to get 3 provinces dedicated to pumping out ships until I have a map-wide trade net work. The amount of income you get is staggering. Have you tried it? It's actually game-breaking, hence the proposed "no trade" hardcore rule.
If you are playing a conquer the world/rush type game, maybe you don't need to trade but for a slower game style, it's awesome."

Absolutely correct. The failure of the AI to build a chain of ships to trade properly has been much commented on in Dungeon threads by various modders. Efforts have been made to get the AI to build more ships, but no-one has yet figured out how to get the AI to leave at least 1 always in its home port (in order to maintain the trade link).

I don't know how anyone plays this game without building a trade network http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif In my current campaign as the Byzantines, I had about 80,000 florins in reserve (without really trying very hard) and thought I was about done with the campaign after 100 years - thought there was no more challenge, since I would inevitably win. Just as I was about to wind it up, all the Christian factions attacked me, and 5 sent Crusades against me at once (including the Pope). No-one would make peace, no-one would trade with me, my trade income plumeted to virtually nothing, soon I was 36,000 florins in the red I had a tough 20-30 turns until I was able to pull things around. Fortunately after I eliminated a few crusades and wiped out some of the more troublesome factions, I got peace with the English and Egyptians. Now my trade income is back up to 43,000 florins/ turn & I'm o.k., but it was tough sledding for a while Just to illustrate the importance of trade. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Cazbol]

Quote[/b] (Odyssey of War @ Jan. 24 2003,16:46)]Just a note for people who dont know:

If you want to attack a province by sea, that province must have a port and you must have a port from which to launch your army. Also, you must have sea dominance in the sea region adjacent to the enemies port, otherwise you cant send your army through their port to attack the province.
There is one error in that. The province you attack does not need to have a port; only the province you attack from. Should you however wish to retreat from the province you just attacked, then you'll need a port in that province.

[MiniKiller]

Hey ok so how can I tell if other provinces can attack me over water? I would like to at times move troops who I dont think can be attacked (Only leaving the duke/earl. etc) thanks.

[Hosakawa Tito]

If you have at least one ship in the adjacent sea area of the province in question, it will prevent a sea invasion by a declared enemy. Next to trade, that is one of the most important reasons to have a dominating naval presence.

[Cazbol]

Quote[/b] (MiniKiller @ Jan. 26 2003,13:35)]Hey ok so how can I tell if other provinces can attack me over water? I would like to at times move troops who I dont think can be attacked (Only leaving the duke/earl. etc) thanks.
If you there's a foreign fleet off your shores then there's a chance that fleet is linked to other fleets, making a link to an enemy province. This means risk of an amphibious attack. If you see no fleet off your shores then you can't be attacked that way.

Unfortunately it may only take one turn for a fleet to get to your coast which can mean an invasion the year after, so don't send your armies too far away. I suggest pressing the v-key every year to see if there are any red seazones close to your coasts.