Shields

[Ueriah]

Ever notice that when you click on a unit, it will often say something like "Large Shield"? I was wondering if those were effective, considering that the unit in question had a polearm type weapon that most likely uses two hands to effectively wield...

[Kraxis]

Large Shield and a polearm? That must be the Jannisary Heavy Infantry.

Large shields add +2 defense and Armour to the unit to the front. Some units don't get the full benefit of their shields, and others don't use them in melee, such as Varangian Guards.

[Michael the Great]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Jan. 03 2003,10:30)]Large Shield and a polearm? That must be the Jannisary Heavy Infantry.

Large shields add +2 defense and Armour to the unit to the front. Some units don't get the full benefit of their shields, and others don't use them in melee, such as Varangian Guards.
Oh yeah,gotta love JHI http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Michael the Great]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Jan. 03 2003,10:30)]Large Shield and a polearm? That must be the Jannisary Heavy Infantry.

Large shields add +2 defense and Armour to the unit to the front. Some units don't get the full benefit of their shields, and others don't use them in melee, such as Varangian Guards.
Oh yeah,gotta love JHI http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Lion King]

AFAIK, also the larger the shield, the greater protection from arrows as well, but it makes a much greater difference than normal armour i.e. peasants with pavises ca withstand more arrows than chivalric (sp?) foot knights. only works on the front i think, because in a battle i had it seemed much easier killing pavise arbs. with archers firing from both sides

[kataphraktoi]

I'v never come across Janissary Heavy Infantry before since I always destroy the Turks early in the campaign for fear of their excellent units available late in the game.

But anyway I would like to know if a varangian guard can beat a janissary heavy infantry if they went at each other one on one??????

Never tried it myself so if anyone would be kind to humour me.

[Kraxis]

Yes, the Guards will defeat the JHI. The JHI is a combined unit, it is a 'Jack-of-all-trades' unit, while the Guards are solely infantry.

Lion King:
Armour determines how well the unit can withstand missiles. So a Peasant unit with Pavises will have Armour 4 to the front while Chivalric Foot Knights have Armour 5. Now the Peasants number 100 while the Foot Knights only number 40, so naturally the losses will be felt more by the knights. Btw where did you come up with the idea of Peasants with Pavises?
And yes shields only work on the front.

[Silencer]

Kraxis,

Can u explain how the shield modifier works?

Some units have 1, some 0.5 (Hospitaller Foot Knights, even with a large shields) and some 0.

thnx

S.

[Kraxis]

The modifier is real simple.

We have a unit such as Almohad Urban Militia which happens to have a Large Shield. Large Shields gives +2 to defense and armour, but the AUM also happens to have a 0.5 modifier on their shield, so in effect their shield only gives them +1 to defense and armour. When there is a 0.0 modifier (only Hospitaller Foot Knights) then the shield is only for looks, no benefit of it.

[Silencer]

thnx Kraxis,

clears it up.

iirc,

small shield +1
large shield +2
pavise shield +3
cavalry shield +???? --> anybody knows this?

Although there are more units with 0.0 modifier

--> ghulam bodyguards (late) have cavalry shield and modiefierer 0.0

Only for the looks, hmmm..... maybe more like a bug and should be 0.5 (like gothic Seargents)

[Kraxis]

Perhaps, who knows.

Pavises are bit different from the others as it only gives Armour, no Defense. Makes sense, you can't fight with such a large shield.

Cavalry Shield gives +1 to each. When it has a 0.5 modifier it only gets 0.5 to Armour, nothing to Defense as it must have full numbers and it always rounds down.

[Silencer]

thnx,

I didn't know that armour values could be like 4.5
Let's try this for standard Chivalric knights

(defence: 5, armour: 7, cavalry shield: +1, 0.5 shield modifier)

gives then:

defence: 5 + (1 x 0.5 =0.5 --> 0) = 5
armour: 7 + (1 x 0.5 = 0.5) = 7.5

I hope I'm right coz it's getting complicated :-)

[Kraxis]

Silencer that is the exact stats for the Chivalrics. Try and watch the F1 screen with some Chivalrics in Custom Games... the 7.5 Armour is quite obvious.

[Michael the Great]

Kraxis,

Don't troops with shields get pentalties for being flanked?

[Praylak]

Would this suggest a distinct advantage to muslim units then as almost all of them have shields? Turks in particuliar.

In a direct comparison between say Futuwwa and Ottoman infantry, would it be sound to say the Futuwwa, having a large shield, are more resilent against arrow fire than the Ottomans and their small shield??