Tarot Mafia

[insomnia]

numbers wise i'm highly highly skeptical there would be another 3p. it made sense for there to be one at 22players since the additional player vs a normal 21er being 16/5

a 2 neut team with a factional would be kinda nuts unless theres only 4 wolves (but even then it still feels hard to balance aroudn that)

so wtf happened last night, wolves have 3kp?

[Jan]

numbers wise i'm highly highly skeptical there would be another 3p. it made sense for there to be one at 22players since the additional player vs a normal 21er being 16/5

a 2 neut team with a factional would be kinda nuts unless theres only 4 wolves (but even then it still feels hard to balance aroudn that)

we played that setup kind of back in the day on videomafia.

4 wolves vs sk/arson team vs village in 20-25 person games (I don't remember the exact numbers tbh)

[Montmorency]

Heckuva job, fellas. ffs

At least we cleared dya.

[dyachei]

oh yeah mont is not a wolf but he could be a 3p

3

[nebjiamn]

Ah fuck it. I can't be asked to wait.

I was jailkeeper and am now jailkeeper.
which is just very funny.

n1 protected stett (I expected Newcomb would only be targeted if wolves have strongman and stett was the dodgekill)
good chance that I actually got a protection on stett if we look at 3 kills tonight.

n2 protected dya in case they were bluffing about part of their role and are odd night vig).
this does tell us that dya did not do any of the kills inc ase anyone was paranoid for some reason.

keep in mind your target last night is likely cleared of being wolf (and maybe villa, but i kinda doubt it?) KP and there's probably at least 2 maybe 3 (if wolves didn't space out the factional) ppl that would have carried last night

also tiny chance you blocked a 4th kill :p but that would be a lot for n2 in this size game with a dead neut

dont out it ofc but factor it in

[Jan]

so wtf happened last night, wolves have 3kp?

3 wolf kp maybe if matts role got inverted to a kp role.

An arsonist could douse n1 and ignite n2. (only if the devil was not arsonist ofc)

that is all I really have.

[nebjiamn]

so wtf happened last night, wolves have 3kp?

could be delayed, reactionary, idk

inb4 maple claims she PGO'd someone

[grr]

grr thank you for the vote history

would you mind spoilering it next time?

ya sure. btw i didnt have time to read stuff and the first person who i wanted to question a bit about something is dead (it was arctic hehehe) so ill just be back tomorrow cya.

[Jan]

keep in mind your target last night is likely cleared of being wolf (and maybe villa, but i kinda doubt it?) KP and there's probably at least 2 maybe 3 (if wolves didn't space out the factional) ppl that would have carried last night

also tiny chance you blocked a 4th kill :p but that would be a lot for n2 in this size game with a dead neut

dont out it ofc but factor it in

I outted dya as n2 target already because my role got inverted and is different now. I am now a Jailkeeper!

[nebjiamn]

3 wolf kp maybe if matts role got inverted to a kp role.

An arsonist could douse n1 and ignite n2. (only if the devil was not arsonist ofc)

that is all I really have.

thematically i hoep this is/was the case, cause that's cute

[nebjiamn]

I outted dya as n2 target already because my role got inverted and is different now. I am now a Jailkeeper!

oh derp

i read that too and just blanked

[Montmorency]

I really disliked that Rask pile-on. Dya had a stronger claim in a vacuum (whom we can at least be comfortable clearing), but this wasn't exclusive of preserving Rask. Ultimately I couldn't lean on this to make a case, but he was more or less acting in his town meta throughout D2 that I could see.

Vote:ladd

You know what you gotta do. Look at that sign. 4 mafs, minimum. I was wrong about CL (I think Maple shotem), but ladd is the godfather here, so to speak.

[Dolby]

I expect Wisdom, Ender, and Maple to all come in pushing me and/or Monty

Big question for me for how I view EOD is 1. Is Rask a killing or jester role. I think almost certainly a SK variant. In that case I actually really like Gemma’s EoD. Mafia have probably clocked that Rask is SK by that point and I don’t think that Gemma would be saying that they were saying about the claims then. Same applies to a way lesser extent to Monty. I kind of don’t like Vantas vote on Dya looking at it in retrospect bc like, any town should recognize that Rask looks worse but I also think that Vanta was kinda disconnected from the thread in that moment so it’s probably fine

I think Ender can turn it around but bro is probs wolfing, more at 11

[insomnia]

even with jan's claim, the only explanation that makes sense to me is 3p faction with factional kill (if we're assuming mont wasn't just a massive troll for no reason whatsoever in a tight 1v1 with BIG STAKES - it really wasn't, everyone was gonna kill rask lol)

and i guess syn being a good role is no longer the world. in a legit!jan world, the wolves targeted stett n1 and dya / rask stacked, rask claimed for cred in order to live is what im assuming since he didn't think villa vig shot because of the crosskill. he might've thought villas have some other form of PR cuz 3p kill and wolf kp is already enough or he just knew 100% (except not!) that sheep was his rightful kill to claim

[insomnia]

I really disliked that Rask pile-on. Dya had a stronger claim in a vacuum (whom we can at least be comfortable clearing), but this wasn't exclusive of preserving Rask. Ultimately I couldn't lean on this to make a case, but he was more or less acting in his town meta throughout D2 that I could see.

Vote:ladd

You know what you gotta do. Look at that sign. 4 mafs, minimum. I was wrong about CL (I think Maple shotem), but ladd is the godfather here, so to speak.

loooooooool

[Gemma]

keep in mind your target last night is likely cleared of being wolf (and maybe villa, but i kinda doubt it?) KP and there's probably at least 2 maybe 3 (if wolves didn't space out the factional) ppl that would have carried last night

also tiny chance you blocked a 4th kill :p but that would be a lot for n2 in this size game with a dead neut

dont out it ofc but factor it in

how do we know wolves carry? i checked op and dont see it am i blind

[Jan]

oh derp

i read that too and just blanked

as upside and headup - I can now execute people!

https://y.yarn.co/a74882de-57d9-4b74-88cb-cb17a5124bb9_text.gif

[Montmorency]

to be honest idek why montmorency would out at a point where rask was ensured to die if he can still carry a factional

i really love closed setups

would only make sense if their wincon was to both win and they were pretty much done anyway so the best they can attempt is to save rask by outing and they try to weasel out somehow, but this sounds like tinfoil territory

Well, I actually am a Lover. But I'm not aligned with Rask.

Why did I lie about Rask? Chaos. He was dying, and shouldn't, but what was left. I also wanted to find out whether there would be a bandwagon effect on him. Also, Lovers have been some of my funniest roles.

I think stetter may have been arsoned. What was Wisdom doing?

@Ender claimed to have targeted stetter N1 with an unspecified power, which needs elaboration.

[nebjiamn]

how do we know wolves carry? i checked op and dont see it am i blind

its pretty standard outside mashes, idt i've played a non-carry game in more than 5 years

[Gemma]

as upside and headup - I can now execute people!

https://y.yarn.co/a74882de-57d9-4b74-88cb-cb17a5124bb9_text.gif

you lucky bastard

[Sunbae]

This has been one of the funniest games I've gotten to play in years. My personal villa reads aren't dying while, imo, being pretty villagery still. My sponged villa reads (that I'm sponging off of my personal villa reads) ARE dying and flipping villa. And the people I'm not villa reading are dying and flipping non-villa. I'm just here for the vibes and social aspect yet I'm having the best first couple of days in a game I've had in ages. Of course that can just be due to the order of flips and all that but right now I'm feeling like I'm killing it.

What does that tell me? That I should keep vibing and shitposting because it's working.

However, there's been enough flips that my brain is realllly wanting me to dig into stuff for puzzle solving purposes. So maybe I'm going to turn on my solving hat this game day cause I feel like it. Expect it overnight when I'm around.

Benneh, we are both unknowns on day 3 this can be a vibe check for the ages! Obv gonna work with whoever but I'm very excited to gamegamegame with you as a last hurrah.

[insomnia]

there's no way you're an actual lover with this amount of kp

this setup must be approved by UD if mont is legit

[insomnia]

nobody claiming any card thus far, to the surprise of no one

[Sunbae]

and yes blah blah could be a wolf blah blah
but can we all agree that if im a villager im doing awesome i could really use the positivity and feels good hehe

[Montmorency]

I outted dya as n2 target already because my role got inverted and is different now. I am now a Jailkeeper!

So what's the difference between being a jailkeeper and being a jailkeeper?


as upside and headup - I can now execute people!

???

[nebjiamn]

This has been one of the funniest games I've gotten to play in years. My personal villa reads aren't dying while, imo, being pretty villagery still. My sponged villa reads (that I'm sponging off of my personal villa reads) ARE dying and flipping villa. And the people I'm not villa reading are dying and flipping non-villa. I'm just here for the vibes and social aspect yet I'm having the best first couple of days in a game I've had in ages. Of course that can just be due to the order of flips and all that but right now I'm feeling like I'm killing it.

What does that tell me? That I should keep vibing and shitposting because it's working.

However, there's been enough flips that my brain is realllly wanting me to dig into stuff for puzzle solving purposes. So maybe I'm going to turn on my solving hat this game day cause I feel like it. Expect it overnight when I'm around.

Benneh, we are both unknowns on day 3 this can be a vibe check for the ages! Obv gonna work with whoever but I'm very excited to gamegamegame with you as a last hurrah.

i dont really feel much validation for my play but i'm happy we're (seemingly) winning and im being carried over the finish line and i'm glad i made it this far because yea, i feel like we only ever get to do this in turbs and i finally have a looser schedule this week to really focus and dig in and im eager to see what you got and what we can figure out together

[nebjiamn]

So what's the difference between being a jailkeeper and being a jailkeeper?



???

there is an alternate version of jailkeepers (sometimes called jailers in games like Wolvesville and Throne of Lies I think) that can actually jailkeep someone and get the option to kill them instead of protect

i assume this is what he's talking about

[dyachei]

i dont really feel much validation for my play but i'm happy we're (seemingly) winning and im being carried over the finish line and i'm glad i made it this far because yea, i feel like we only ever get to do this in turbs and i finally have a looser schedule this week to really focus and dig in and im eager to see what you got and what we can figure out together

i dont get this view because like...we just lost 3 pretty clear villa overnight

4

[Gemma]

So what's the difference between being a jailkeeper and being a jailkeeper?



???

he's now sexier

:whip:

[Montmorency]

its pretty standard outside mashes, idt i've played a non-carry game in more than 5 years

Carry as in one mafioso's exclusive NA that night?

Carry and factional are both common.


What does that tell me? That I should keep vibing and shitposting because it's working.

That's a touch crumby. :shrug:


Benneh, we are both unknowns on day 3 this can be a vibe check for the ages! Obv gonna work with whoever but I'm very excited to gamegamegame with you as a last hurrah.

Hilarious. Both you and neb are my true nulls still.


there's no way you're an actual lover with this amount of kp

this setup must be approved by UD if mont is legit

I am 100% a Lover. Think about it. I hardclaimed D1 btw.

[insomnia]

let me get this straight, mont

you said you didn't like the rask pile on, which had been happening for i think 2hours prior to EoD, if not more. it was clear nobody believed him and would vote him

And you wait til 3m left to try to save him without defending him before? By claiming lovers?

Do you have a history of doing these kinds of things or was it a one time thing?

[Gemma]

i dont really feel much validation for my play but i'm happy we're (seemingly) winning and im being carried over the finish line and i'm glad i made it this far because yea, i feel like we only ever get to do this in turbs and i finally have a looser schedule this week to really focus and dig in and im eager to see what you got and what we can figure out together

are we? rask was effectively a misyeet

[Jan]

So what's the difference between being a jailkeeper and being a jailkeeper?



???

One of them is a town of salem role the other one is a normal werewolf/mafia role.

Classic Jailkeeper can roleblock and protect 1 person each night

Town of Salem Jailkeeper (or Jailor technically) can target a player each day and roleblock and protect them during the night.
BUT they also open a chat with that person and may decide to execute them instead.

So it is strictly an upgrade!

[Jan]

i dont get this view because like...we just lost 3 pretty clear villa overnight

4

yeah. losing 5 villas in 2 nights is not really worth killing a single wolf.

[dyachei]

are we? rask was effectively a misyeet

rask was not a misyeet

he was 3p with kp most likely

5

[Sunbae]

i dont really feel much validation for my play but i'm happy we're (seemingly) winning and im being carried over the finish line and i'm glad i made it this far because yea, i feel like we only ever get to do this in turbs and i finally have a looser schedule this week to really focus and dig in and im eager to see what you got and what we can figure out together

https://i.imgur.com/pIaOCEp.png

[Gemma]

there is an alternate version of jailkeepers (sometimes called jailers in games like Wolvesville and Throne of Lies I think) that can actually jailkeep someone and get the option to kill them instead of protect

i assume this is what he's talking about

im hoping its the ver where u get a night hood with them and can execute by eon

[insomnia]

i dont really feel much validation for my play but i'm happy we're (seemingly) winning and im being carried over the finish line and i'm glad i made it this far because yea, i feel like we only ever get to do this in turbs and i finally have a looser schedule this week to really focus and dig in and im eager to see what you got and what we can figure out together

wolfchat is the one on discord, old man

you are welcome

[Montmorency]

there is an alternate version of jailkeepers (sometimes called jailers in games like Wolvesville and Throne of Lies I think) that can actually jailkeep someone and get the option to kill them instead of protect

i assume this is what he's talking about

What on Earth does that have to do with "inversion?"


i dont really feel much validation for my play but i'm happy we're (seemingly) winning and im being carried over the finish line and i'm glad i made it this far because yea, i feel like we only ever get to do this in turbs and i finally have a looser schedule this week to really focus and dig in and im eager to see what you got and what we can figure out together

Who's winning?


let me get this straight, mont

you said you didn't like the rask pile on, which had been happening for i think 2hours prior to EoD, if not more. it was clear nobody believed him and would vote him

And you wait til 3m left to try to save him without defending him before? By claiming lovers?

Do you have a history of doing these kinds of things or was it a one time thing?

If you don't think I was defending him, refer to those last 10 pages again. I was pretty firm on 'anyone but Rask/dya.'


One of them is a town of salem role the other one is a normal werewolf/mafia role.

Classic Jailkeeper can roleblock and protect 1 person each night

Town of Salem Jailkeeper (or Jailor technically) can target a player each day and roleblock and protect them during the night.
BUT they also open a chat with that person and may decide to execute them instead.

So it is strictly an upgrade!

Hm, so a neighborizer too. Did stetter have anything to say before today? And you think you were effectively blocked N1 by "inversion" or something.

[Jan]

https://i.imgur.com/pIaOCEp.png

what a daredevil!

posting wolfchat in thread and nobody will ever realize!

[theknightsofneeee]

is anyone gonna claim any of those kills? only one that seems vaguely possible for a villa to make is arctic IMO but still just checking

[theknightsofneeee]

Ah fuck it. I can't be asked to wait.

I was jailkeeper and am now jailkeeper.
which is just very funny.

n1 protected stett (I expected Newcomb would only be targeted if wolves have strongman and stett was the dodgekill)
good chance that I actually got a protection on stett if we look at 3 kills tonight.

n2 protected dya in case they were bluffing about part of their role and are odd night vig).
this does tell us that dya did not do any of the kills inc ase anyone was paranoid for some reason.

vote: Jan

[Gemma]

yeah. losing 5 villas in 2 nights is not really worth killing a single wolf.

esp when that wolf was syn

tbh d1 wolf yeets are woated

d1 misyeet ftw

[insomnia]

is anyone gonna claim any of those kills? only one that seems vaguely possible for a villa to make is arctic IMO but still just checking

1% chance

so many people i wanna kill but we might need to consider killing mont to get rid of the 3Ps :wall:

[dyachei]

vote: Jan

this is not a good vote

6

[Jan]

is anyone gonna claim any of those kills? only one that seems vaguely possible for a villa to make is arctic IMO but still just checking

We might need some gun control talks if that is true.

This is forum werewolf, not America.

[Montmorency]

rask was not a misyeet

he was 3p with kp most likely

5

I take him at his word, but moreover, 3P are almost always pro-town or balanced, and are rarely an effective ouster. Minimal information was gained, and Mafia wincon has progressed.


is anyone gonna claim any of those kills? only one that seems vaguely possible for a villa to make is arctic IMO but still just checking

I suspect Maple was on CL and stetter was arsoned.


1% chance

so many people i wanna kill but we might need to consider killing mont to get rid of the 3Ps :wall:

Not 3P my bub.

[Maple]

Lol

Gave Arctic the card cause I figured he wouldn't die in the night.

Oopsiepoopsie

[Dolby]

Monty, if Maple was gonna kill anybody it’d be me

[insomnia]

ladd and maple just need to get the nuke treatment

[Dolby]

Lol

Gave Arctic the card cause I figured he wouldn't die in the night.

Oopsiepoopsie

Vote: Maple

[Maple]

Ah fuck it. I can't be asked to wait.

I was jailkeeper and am now jailkeeper.
which is just very funny.

n1 protected stett (I expected Newcomb would only be targeted if wolves have strongman and stett was the dodgekill)
good chance that I actually got a protection on stett if we look at 3 kills tonight.

n2 protected dya in case they were bluffing about part of their role and are odd night vig).
this does tell us that dya did not do any of the kills inc ase anyone was paranoid for some reason.

Oh perfect we can have me give a card to Jan and he can just kill me if im lying

[insomnia]

Lol

Gave Arctic the card cause I figured he wouldn't die in the night.

Oopsiepoopsie

Vote: Maple

[Gemma]

i assume nee is about to drop a wall with a cc or smth

:popcorn:

[nebjiamn]

i dont get this view because like...we just lost 3 pretty clear villa overnight

4

and yet i still have a v strong towncore and we've killed 2 non-town out of 2 tries

thats winning IMO -- if ew keep yeeting wolves and we still lose then we blame visor

i think yeeting a wolf likely would have been better yesterday but slowing the game down by 1kp/n isnt bad either

[insomnia]

i assume nee is about to drop a wall with a cc or smth

:popcorn:

i think he's just tunneled

[Maple]

Also no I didn't activate last night

[dyachei]

i think ladd looks worse than maple but im not convinced on either. someone give me the cases?

I thought there was one in rask/ladd/jan and rask was 3p kp so I'm not sure if anyone is a wolf

7

[nebjiamn]

https://i.imgur.com/pIaOCEp.png

LMAO

us basketball olympic rosters as players in this game go

newcomb curry
bop KD
didistetter jrue holiday

[theknightsofneeee]

We might need some gun control talks if that is true.

This is forum werewolf, not America.


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Son5cnkI9Rc

[Maple]

i think ladd looks worse than maple but im not convinced on either. someone give me the cases?

I thought there was one in rask/ladd/jan and rask was 3p kp so I'm not sure if anyone is a wolf

7

To be fair my alignment at the moment is about on the rand line, I'd estimate

Don't worry I'm highly confident I can post my way out of this, I always find a way

[nebjiamn]

i think ladd looks worse than maple but im not convinced on either. someone give me the cases?

I thought there was one in rask/ladd/jan and rask was 3p kp so I'm not sure if anyone is a wolf

7

i think maple looks worse but i think its a very good chance they're w/w

ladd's pushes this game are not great but maple is like, very likely just wolf kp

[Maple]

i think ladd looks worse than maple but im not convinced on either. someone give me the cases?

I thought there was one in rask/ladd/jan and rask was 3p kp so I'm not sure if anyone is a wolf

7

To be fair my alignment at the moment is about on the rand line, I'd estimate

Don't worry I'm highly confident I can post my way out of this, I always find a way

[Montmorency]

Monty, if Maple was gonna kill anybody it’d be me

Why lol? Most players wanted him dead.

But now he claims to have killed Arctic, who I had just below stetter, and basically misled us by implying that he would shoot within my solve.

So that sucks.


i think ladd looks worse than maple but im not convinced on either. someone give me the cases?

I thought there was one in rask/ladd/jan and rask was 3p kp so I'm not sure if anyone is a wolf

7

He's sublimely associated with syn. There is no player who is more associated with syn. In a way similar to another scum game he had (with you, here, two years ago).

[Maple]

Why lol? Most players wanted him dead.

But now he claims to have killed Arctic, who I had just below stetter, and basically misled us by implying that he would shoot within my solve.

So that sucks.



He's sublimely associated with syn. There is no player who is more associated with syn. In a way similar to another scum game he had (with you, here, two years ago).

No, I gave Arctic an ability yesterday. Him dying last night is totally unrelated.

[dyachei]

vote: ladd

8

[Gemma]

To be fair my alignment at the moment is about on the rand line, I'd estimate

Don't worry I'm highly confident I can post my way out of this, I always find a way

Vote: Maple

[Montmorency]

No, I gave Arctic an ability yesterday. Him dying last night is totally unrelated.

When did you claim that? Did I misunderstand "despo shots?"

[Maple]

When did you claim that? Did I misunderstand "despo shots?"

I explicitly claimed inventor

The despo shots thing was a 1 off joke post referencing anni where I died in a similar position

[Montmorency]

Jesus Christ.

So was everyone talking about "inverter" when we should have heard "inventor?" This is still gnawing at me.

[dyachei]

manti, if your role inverts others why didnt you invert me? maybe it would have reset shots or something

9

[nebjiamn]

can we just maj maple and kick back off tomorrow same time? lol

[Maple]

Nono, the inverter turned my "self-inventor" into a "normal inventor".

Or rather, I can select a card and draw it and it's a usable action but I don't know what they do until it's in my hand.

Now I simply give someone else a card.

I gave Arctic the 7 of Pennticles (or coins or whatever) hoping it'd be like a commute or smth. No such luck, evidently.

It's funny that my other target was gonna be bop, but I tried dodging kp w/ Arctic. Somehow it'd be more correct to give the card to a claimed pr lol

[Gemma]

can we just maj maple and kick back off tomorrow same time? lol

nah we gotta wagon ladd and wisdom too for the infonomics

[Maple]

No those are two totally different things.

[Maple]

You're never gonna believe me but I actually haven't lied about a single thing this game.

[Montmorency]

Nono, the inverter turned my "self-inventor" into a "normal inventor".

Yep, I'm bamboozled. Nothing happening in this game aligns with the Maf wiki description of "inverted." It sounds more like someone's upgrading your and jan's PRs, if you've been truthful (which itself sounds like an unclaimed town PR).

What did you claim for N1 again?

[Gemma]

Nono, the inverter turned my "self-inventor" into a "normal inventor".

Or rather, I can select a card and draw it and it's a usable action but I don't know what they do until it's in my hand.

Now I simply give someone else a card.

I gave Arctic the 7 of Pennticles (or coins or whatever) hoping it'd be like a commute or smth. No such luck, evidently.

It's funny that my other target was gonna be bop, but I tried dodging kp w/ Arctic. Somehow it'd be more correct to give the card to a claimed pr lol

whats ur flavor name

[Maple]

World

[Maple]

I can select any of the minor arcana

If I'm remembering right it's

Swords wands cups and the fancy old English word for coins

[Dolby]

Vote: Wisdom

I think that the inverter is town. Don't really see Jan and Maple as mafia targets (I say this despite Jan's PR claim yesterday, but we're in role madness so w/e)

[Dolby]

Monty want to mason :hide:

[Gemma]

Vote: Wisdom

[nebjiamn]

where i'm at roughly, tiers not ordered within (also an excuse to use [ glow] tags which are insanely cool)



~lock town (should be 0 wolves)
1. dyachei - vig claim aside just town off d1, but lock for the 'CC' on rask even tho he flipped neut and not wolf, functionally its near the same since the only real possibility was if rask flipped v then their roles were pretty incompatible
11. grr - my most confident read itg mech aside. i think lots of ppl have co-signed this dead/alive/town/wolf and i dont see the need to overthink this
13. insomnia - this high off day 1 mostly, dont think he'd bus syn when rask/sheep are viable wagons, especially when ladd/newc are pushing to resolve v!sheep and knights also has a good amount of v equity that could have been a 3rd counter. doesn't make sense meta wise and the rest of his posting is v good

v likely town (0-1w hopefully)
4. Vanta Black - prety villagery pop ins and feels distinctly different from her champs game. would like to see more out of them but i sorta think she may have been threadspewed v yesterday
9. Jan - vibes, playing towny, believable pr claim, shrug
21. Dolby (formerly C0balt). - idk i just read his posts and think town. if he were vagos i would say he makes good poasts

lean town but less sure? (0-1)
6. Sunbae - some meta stuff and general vibes, he hasn't pinged anything on my radar for how i read him but out of respect for his wolf game i am putting him in this tier cause as iaafr once said i'm "eternally pocketed" (I disagree and think that's a dumb ass read tbh but w/e)
10. gemma - idk going after stett as wolf just doesnt make sense to me but i could see myself being a sucker for this read. feels diff from last game they were a wolf too but low confidence
19. Montmorency - lots of posts around EOD1 and 2 that just make me wonder "why do this as a wolf?" -- they also make me wonder "why do it as a villager?" sometimes too but in general i think they've been good enough
20. Theknightsofneeee - had him in v likely town earlier but the lack of volume and impact yesterday made me drop him down just out of #thefear.

poe -> maybe woof (1-2 wolves)
8. ladd - pushing lots of villagers day 1 and 2 and didn't do anything with syn. he's soft pushed me a bit and a) he's like, almost never misread me and b) even if i dont hold him to the standard of A, there was like, 0 conviction with his push on me yesterday and was pretty limp and then changed his vote over to monty near eod while (i think?) defending rask. if mont is a wolf then its not that bad, but if he's v then he went from villa to villa day 2 after doing that day 1. he's also defended a few players i have wr'd at various points of the game, and i don't see how all those are true unless there's several misclears in my towncore. so either him or I are having a really rough game or he's a woof (or maybe we're both having ~OK games but we dont have the full picture to see that yet, idk!)
12. EnderWiggin - if i take his PR claim at FV then w/e but if i ignore that, i think he has a lot of pairing equity w/ ladd and wisdom. having said that, i do agree w/ ladd re: logic of claims coming out unlikely to have multiple wolves claiming after eachother and i get the feeling he'd coach against that so idt these 3 are like, hardly ever gonna be w/w/w.
14. Wisdom - claim seems out of place in relation to everything else tbh. some good posts day 1 but also some sus posts and day 2 was not great even disregarding the claim.

wolf
18. Maple - probly wolf KP tbh. claimed feedback at EOD. claimed self-resolution. self-resolving player dies, no feedback, fun

i know my bottom 4 poe is not w/w/w/w, or at least, its extremely unlikely, which means im misclearing at least 1 player in my lean towns so id like to focus discussion/challenges on my worldview around those 7 players today (with a preference for the ones in the lean town section but ill take what i can get)

[Montmorency]

Monty want to mason :hide:

I can't core you, but maybe.

I'll let someone else sort out Maple and what he did D1 vs D2, it's not productive for me to think about him.

We need to hear Ender's full claim, and why Wisdom the firefighter allowed Stetter to die.

ladd is the best wagon for the day.


Leans

dya
Stetter
Arctic
Newcomb

^ Null
Insomnia
knights
grr
Dolby

Null
Vanta Black
Rask
Maple
neb
Sunbae
sheep

Special
Gemma
Jan
Wisdom

:stare:
CL (Colonel)
Ender
ladd

[nebjiamn]

I can't core you, but maybe.

I'll let someone else sort out Maple and what he did D1 vs D2, it's not productive for me to think about him.

We need to hear Ender's full claim, and why Wisdom the firefighter allowed Stetter to die.

ladd is the best wagon for the day.


Leans

dya
Stetter
Arctic
Newcomb

^ Null
Insomnia
knights
grr
Dolby

Null
Vanta Black
Rask
Maple
neb
Sunbae
sheep

Special
Gemma
Jan
Wisdom

:stare:
CL (Colonel)
Ender
ladd

when is the last time you updated your list

[Montmorency]

when is the last time you updated your list

Right now. Here's D2. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php/155022-Tarot-Mafia?p=2053858822&viewfull=1#post2053858822)

Dya was obv locked after D2. Neb and Sunbae moved to just null, because they said some creepy things today but I still can't think of anything very good or bad about them. Maybe I could move everyone in the high null up to light town, but I'm not really thinking about them. Today I'm thinking about Syn, Ladd, Ender, and sorting out Ender and Wisdom PR claims. Maple is mixed null; I'll try to avoid that discourse. Jan is still in special because I'm not sure I can trust their claim (though I could be wrong about stetter being arsoned).

[Gemma]

8. ladd - pushing lots of villagers day 1 and 2

which

[nebjiamn]

which

me/sheep for one

knights/monty seems ~likely too (or i'm wrong)

[theknightsofneeee]

reminder that raskol was a villager WRT vote logic (people who voted him EOD 1 over syn voted a villager wagon over a wolf wagon)

less so yesterday after the claim (because it was a weird claim and likely to be non villager after that) but people pushing him before the claim also were essentially pushing a villager.



btw I think that based on his card (the devil) he was likely an arsonist. He was neutral, flavor works well for that role, and it makes wisdom's role believable/likely villager.

Since no additional kp showed n1, makes arsonist more likely too.

i'm probably cool with soft clearing wisdom(and yes ofc a wolf firefighter with a neutral arsonist is possible but I don't think visor would give a wolf firefighter and not a villa firefighter, and then I assume that villa would have counterclaimed wisdom)

[theknightsofneeee]

I think jan not saving newcomb is somewhat inexcusable if he was a protective (its a closed setup, you don't assume that wolves are gonna medic dodge from the obvious kill because they don't know if there is a protective ability, and if so what it is/how it interacts with them. He should know that and should have saved newcomb if he's a villager because newcomb is A) an obvious SPK and b) was cleared by the whole game and c) led the elim on a wolf. )

I think him being inverted and staying the 'same role' is kinda silly, and i kinda doubt that visor would make a role in a game with an inverter that would just ignore the ability, seems nonsensical. Or if he was actually inverted he's lying about what the inversion does (*cough cough* there was extra kp in the night)

I think his treatment of syn/raskol day 1 looks ESPECIALLY horrible now considering raskol flipped neutral (village essentially) and syn was a wolf. He was trying to get people off of syn multiple times based on raskol's read of syn, and voted raskol instead. Like ladd said yesterday, its pretty viable for wolf!jan to try to use villa!raskol's notoriously good read on syn to try to clear his wolf bro when raskol gets elimed. Obviously in this scenario raskol was a neutral but the logic still stands.

[Gemma]

reminder that raskol was a villager WRT vote logic (people who voted him EOD 1 over syn voted a villager wagon over a wolf wagon)

less so yesterday after the claim (because it was a weird claim and likely to be non villager after that) but people pushing him before the claim also were essentially pushing a villager.



btw I think that based on his card (the devil) he was likely an arsonist. He was neutral, flavor works well for that role, and it makes wisdom's role believable/likely villager.

Since no additional kp showed n1, makes arsonist more likely too.

i'm probably cool with soft clearing wisdom(and yes ofc a wolf firefighter with a neutral arsonist is possible but I don't think visor would give a wolf firefighter and not a villa firefighter, and then I assume that villa would have counterclaimed wisdom)

devil being arsonist makes obvious sense except rask was def true claiming his sheep shot

ig its possible he had vig shots as well as arson? i prefer not to speculate about role stuff personally

[theknightsofneeee]

devil being arsonist makes obvious sense except rask was def true claiming his sheep shot

ig its possible he had vig shots as well as arson? i prefer not to speculate about role stuff personally

I think its possible that raskol claimed the shot because no villager had claimed it and he thought it was wolf kp, and claiming the shot on sheep would let him live through the day (he was getting some traction on votes)

but can't really depend on his claims to be accurate because he was a neutral, and dya did claim a shot on sheep, so i'm just living in the simple world where dya's shot is the real shot and raskol just made up everything and was fake claiming to try and live through the day (the fact that he claimed a 2 shot vig is relevant because if he was an arsonist he would have to douse/ignite, so he was probably going to ignite n2 to 'prove' his kp)

but I just think firefighter is a random first role to claim if you're wisdom (afaik he was the first person to claim a role at all) which makes me more confident that its true as well.

[theknightsofneeee]

Who are you looking at for wolves today gemma?

i'm still working under the assumption you're a villa from EOD 1 so i'm down to potentially compromise on a shared wolf read

[Gemma]

ladd/wisdom/maple mainly

ender or not ender depending on what he claims

1 sec i'll make a readlist for u

v
dya
grr
-
insom
-
nee
jan
sunbae
dolby
-
mont
- null
neb
vanta
ender
-
wisdom
maple
-
ladd
w

[Vanta Black]

Eek, bloodbath. Okay I now think dya town and sorry about that bad vote.

[Vanta Black]

Ah fuck it. I can't be asked to wait.

I was jailkeeper and am now jailkeeper.
which is just very funny.

n1 protected stett (I expected Newcomb would only be targeted if wolves have strongman and stett was the dodgekill)
good chance that I actually got a protection on stett if we look at 3 kills tonight.

n2 protected dya in case they were bluffing about part of their role and are odd night vig).
this does tell us that dya did not do any of the kills inc ase anyone was paranoid for some reason.

what is the difference between jailkeeper and jailkeeper then?

[Vanta Black]

grr thank you for the vote history

would you mind spoilering it next time?

Seconding thanks for vote history

[Dolby]

Eek, bloodbath. Okay I now think dya town and sorry about that bad vote.

Hey Vanta

What are your strongest reads

Also just gonna say, assuming Rask is a solo, I personally am leaning to him being SK and his Sheep shot being real (he did say on D1 that Sheep was a slot he was pinged by fwiw). I just don’t think he claims the shot if he didn’t actually do it because as third party that’s just a game over for you no matter what if town believes your claim, or they don’t believe your claim: you aren’t getting to the end of the game because your shot is going to be CCed.

Him claiming two shot imo was an attempt to be accepted but not be a target for a mafia kill (mafia either roleblock him or leave him alone as someone without an action)

[Vanta Black]

Well, I actually am a Lover. But I'm not aligned with Rask.

Why did I lie about Rask? Chaos. He was dying, and shouldn't, but what was left. I also wanted to find out whether there would be a bandwagon effect on him. Also, Lovers have been some of my funniest roles.

I think stetter may have been arsoned. What was Wisdom doing?

@Ender claimed to have targeted stetter N1 with an unspecified power, which needs elaboration.

Okay if stett was jailed by Jan n1 wouldn't this have prevented her being ignited?

Also, do lovers get to pick or is it kind of an arranged marriage? (Have never been in lover's game)

Could Ender's thing have blocked the jailkeeping?

[Vanta Black]

You're never gonna believe me but I actually haven't lied about a single thing this game.

You haven't lied but any more "joke posts" like the one about the despo?

[Vanta Black]

i dont really feel much validation for my play but i'm happy we're (seemingly) winning and im being carried over the finish line and i'm glad i made it this far because yea, i feel like we only ever get to do this in turbs and i finally have a looser schedule this week to really focus and dig in and im eager to see what you got and what we can figure out together

ARe we though?

[Dolby]

The joke post was pretty recognizable to anyone in or spectating d4 of anni (which is like 1/2 of the game), I think it’s fine and not something to dunk on (though Maple is still a wolf and can go today)

[Vanta Black]

Hey Vanta

What are your strongest reads

Also just gonna say, assuming Rask is a solo, I personally am leaning to him being SK and his Sheep shot being real (he did say on D1 that Sheep was a slot he was pinged by fwiw). I just don’t think he claims the shot if he didn’t actually do it because as third party that’s just a game over for you no matter what if town believes your claim, or they don’t believe your claim: you aren’t getting to the end of the game because your shot is going to be CCed.

Him claiming two shot imo was an attempt to be accepted but not be a target for a mafia kill (mafia either roleblock him or leave him alone as someone without an action)

Well that was quite an EOD2 wasn't it? I feel like maybe if he was SK he would have had more than two shots (could have lied about that too though) and it sounds like maybe you doubt that too. Kinda seems like it's game over for you though even if you do claim the shot. As was the case.

Have not really updated my reads, although I did read sunbae and insomnia as two who just didn't stand out to me. Sunbae I still don't know. The thing is, pretty much everybody sounds okay as far as tone. Nebjiamn is pinging me with his "we are winning" post because it seems the opposite, but I don't wanna be a doomsayer on D3. Jan's claim is kinda bothering me too, and he was one of my strongest TRs.

[Gemma]

Okay if stett was jailed by Jan n1 wouldn't this have prevented her being ignited?

Also, do lovers get to pick or is it kind of an arranged marriage? (Have never been in lover's game)

Could Ender's thing have blocked the jailkeeping?

arranged

[Vanta Black]

The joke post was pretty recognizable to anyone in or spectating d4 of anni (which is like 1/2 of the game), I think it’s fine and not something to dunk on (though Maple is still a wolf and can go today)

Okay, I will not dunk on it again then. Thanks.

[Vanta Black]

Fluff: it appears I need to upgrade my visual game here, probably starting with the pfp (that is what you young'uns call the avatar, right?) I resolve to do that as soon as this game is over. Don't expect any GIFs.

[Dolby]

Vanta what do you think of the current thread consensus that the four wolfiest people are Maple, Wisdom, Ladd, and Ender? And the less consensus read that Montmorency had potential to be a neutral teammed with Rask?

Tbh I’m struggling to think of a person who’s checked in today besides you who has major scumreads out of those first four names

I’d be interested in seeing your overall view of the game at some point today

[nebjiamn]

ARe we though?
look at it this way:

of the available village KP (including the elim + vigs that we know of), we have only missed once and it was on a Poe slot/overlapped with the likely shot of the neut (only saying ‘likely’ cause ppl are floating the idea of devil being an arsonist but I am skeptical)

Killing a wolf may have been better yesterday, especially if we could hit their kp, but we might still be staring at another villa death from rasks kill in that case, or even a 4th overnight death (tbf he also may have shot a wolf)

basicallt what I’m saying is we’re winning in day play for sure. And in night actions, from what we know, we’re still doing pretty well all things considered. If we keep at it like this and find a way to lose then the setup is broken or we are being SEVERELY outplayed at night but that doesn’t feel that way to me rn

[Montmorency]

I think jan not saving newcomb is somewhat inexcusable if he was a protective (its a closed setup, you don't assume that wolves are gonna medic dodge from the obvious kill because they don't know if there is a protective ability, and if so what it is/how it interacts with them. He should know that and should have saved newcomb if he's a villager because newcomb is A) an obvious SPK and b) was cleared by the whole game and c) led the elim on a wolf. )

I think him being inverted and staying the 'same role' is kinda silly, and i kinda doubt that visor would make a role in a game with an inverter that would just ignore the ability, seems nonsensical. Or if he was actually inverted he's lying about what the inversion does (*cough cough* there was extra kp in the night)

I think his treatment of syn/raskol day 1 looks ESPECIALLY horrible now considering raskol flipped neutral (village essentially) and syn was a wolf. He was trying to get people off of syn multiple times based on raskol's read of syn, and voted raskol instead. Like ladd said yesterday, its pretty viable for wolf!jan to try to use villa!raskol's notoriously good read on syn to try to clear his wolf bro when raskol gets elimed. Obviously in this scenario raskol was a neutral but the logic still stands.

Why wasn't Stett a more obvious SPK? More consensus towny posting, and led the Syn wagon just as much. I agree on Jan suss more broadly. But I have no idea what inverter is supposed to mean here either way, and no one else seems to have a clear idea either.

Rask was not fakeclaiming for giggles. There is no reason for Maf not to NK him after that claim. Maybe not immediately, but he doesn't survive. Do you believe he was holding an unlimited BP? My only SK rand had unlimited BP, but I'm pretty sure that's not a setup seen since the old-school days. Or maybe, you think he deliberately wanted to eat a NK to help out Town?

Dolby, make sure to press for claims on Maple's gift. I know what I said, but it's important to get that specific aspect confirmed if we're just going to pile on him like we did with Rask.

[Sunbae]

Ok so to start lets get some things we know down:

A. From the wolves pov we know they thought Rask was town. This is relevant not just for eod1 wagon analysis but also eod2 analysis where wolves were thinking we were chopping a town vig. When rereading eod1 (which I will be doing shortly) we have known info that there were wagons on Sheep (villa), Rask (villa from wolf pov), and Syn (wolf). When rereading yesterday, I want to look at which players were posting in a way to look good after town Rask vig flips at eod.

B. There are quite a few claims and the game can turn mechanical pretty easily but I want to use mechanical claims to supplement reads on actual posting rather than making reads based on the claims. None of the claims are really verifiable without flips and frankly they all sound kind of convoluted to begin with so trying to figure out what's real and what's made up just isn't really my cup of tea. Would prefer to just use all the known flips to judge people on their own and then use mechanics to tilt us in once direction or another if its close.

C. I'm of the belief that things have been going well enough thus far (2 kills out of 2 chops is as much as you could hope for) but today - now that we have 7 alignments - should see a fair amount of shake ups in reads lists. Use what we have so far as a starting point but don't be afraid to shake it up. There's enough info now we should have the ability to make good reads for good reasons instead of vibe checks and mostly meta.



My plans for this game day are:
- reread eod1
- focus on the wagons we know results of, figure out who was moving where
- pay attention to dead villagers and their pushes during these times. lots of good players in this game so want to pay extra attention to why they died over others
- reread post Dya claim day 2
- focus on reactions and who seems gung ho about killing rask vs those that want to look good for the next day
- form a towncore
- use said towncore to pore over the thread and help sort the game
- be annoyed at myself for not just shitposting and vibing still
- brains be weird
- sort through any mechanical thing that bothers me
- get a full reads list with in depth explanations for each player
- hope thats good enough to win

[theknightsofneeee]

Why wasn't Stett a more obvious SPK? More consensus towny posting, and led the Syn wagon just as much. I agree on Jan suss more broadly. But I have no idea what inverter is supposed to mean here either way, and no one else seems to have a clear idea either.

Rask was not fakeclaiming for giggles. There is no reason for Maf not to NK him after that claim. Maybe not immediately, but he doesn't survive. Do you believe he was holding an unlimited BP? My only SK rand had unlimited BP, but I'm pretty sure that's not a setup seen since the old-school days. Or maybe, you think he deliberately wanted to eat a NK to help out Town?

Dolby, make sure to press for claims on Maple's gift. I know what I said, but it's important to get that specific aspect confirmed if we're just going to pile on him like we did with Rask.

when i say 'spk' I mean 'strong player kill' which has the connotation of meaning 'nightkill someone who is a very strong villager who will clear themselves and is likely to solve the game if cleared/alive in lylo'. And while didistetter is definitely able to clear themselves, they are still a relatively new player, at least relative to this player list, so they wouldn't be someone i would typically kill n1, normally it would be like ladd/benneh/sunbae/newcomb in this player list IMO (which is why three of the four still being alive is worrying).

In the world that i'm talking about (raskol = neut arsonist) he was fake claiming villa kp to possibly escape elim (several people who were possible wagons were claiming, he was a viable wagon, he would be able to demonstrate KP n2 if he was an arsonist). Obviously it would potentially limit his lifespan but a) if you get elimed you're dead anyways lol and b)arsonists more often than not are neutral.

I think most people are overthinking it ATM.

And yes i'm kinda using wisdom's claim to decide he's an arsonist, but wisdom claiming firefighter and then having a neutral flip that day seems too wild for me to doubt IMO. And since there wasn't a counter claim to firefighter I think wisdom is essentially always villa because it seems unlikely the setup would be just a wolf firefighter. (and even if there was a weird setup where that was the case, Wisdom wouldn't know that was the setup, and would have to assume he would get counterclaimed by a villa firefighter, and therefore wouldn't claim like he did)



One thing I failed to consider is that since there was only 2 kp shown n1 (and dya claims the shot on sheep) its technically possible that Jan did get a save on didistetter n1. the death of didistetter n2 might also make sense in that context because they killed didi after a saved kill n1.

that would be a lot of kp in a 22 person game tbh, but depending on the setup its possible.

[Vanta Black]

Vanta what do you think of the current thread consensus that the four wolfiest people are Maple, Wisdom, Ladd, and Ender? And the less consensus read that Montmorency had potential to be a neutral teammed with Rask?

Tbh I’m struggling to think of a person who’s checked in today besides you who has major scumreads out of those first four names

I’d be interested in seeing your overall view of the game at some point today

I am kinda anti-consensus but I will weigh in on those four.

A little less interested in Wisdom today, I thought her claim was skeevy but somebody mentioned that Rask could've been an arsonist. Or there could be a scum arsonist. I'm a little more interested in Maple. Ender I always think as scummy (he has played, as Bladescape, on the Giraffe boards--you probably knew that--so I'm more familiar with him than with most names here). I want to hear more about his N1 claim. I'd have to look at ladd again, and I will.

Theknightsofnee has checked in and voted Jan btw so that is one other player who has a scumread outside of those 4.

I think that Montmorency has the potential to be teamed with Rask, but I don't think he is. I don't have a lot of experience with teamed 3Ps, and by that I mean I have just never seen them.

Kind of offtopic: This is the third Tarot-themed mafia game I have played. The other two were open, as in, we knew what the cards did, just not who had which cards or which cards would be drawn.

[Wisdom]

N2 Results:

ColonelLubriderm was killed.

They were:


The Hermit

https://i.imgur.com/Fgm5L0D.jpeg

They were village!

-----

Arctic was killed.

They were:


Death

https://i.imgur.com/eNGnU6X.jpeg

They were village!

-----

Didistetter was killed.

They were:


The Hanged Man

https://i.imgur.com/cjs0VGM.jpeg

They were village!

-----

48 hours for day.

whatthistextdo


Don't post till 9pm EDT.

Oooof what

[theknightsofneeee]

I get that people hate making pure setup/mechanical reads WRT clearing people.

but I think the logic of 'why would wolf!wisdom claim firefighter if he would reasonably expect to get counterclaimed? and there is no way he could reasonably know there was an actual neutral in the game prior to raskol flip' logic is pretty sound and IMO clearing for wisdom.

I'll see if I can supplement it with a reads based reason to villa read wisdom as well but they seem like the obvious mislynch that people are pushing unnecessarily atm.

[Wisdom]

Work starts today so I'll be back in a bit
I thought Rask was arsonist but wtf are those kills then

[nebjiamn]

Ok so to start lets get some things we know down:

A. From the wolves pov we know they thought Rask was town. This is relevant not just for eod1 wagon analysis but also eod2 analysis where wolves were thinking we were chopping a town vig. When rereading eod1 (which I will be doing shortly) we have known info that there were wagons on Sheep (villa), Rask (villa from wolf pov), and Syn (wolf). When rereading yesterday, I want to look at which players were posting in a way to look good after town Rask vig flips at eod.

B. There are quite a few claims and the game can turn mechanical pretty easily but I want to use mechanical claims to supplement reads on actual posting rather than making reads based on the claims. None of the claims are really verifiable without flips and frankly they all sound kind of convoluted to begin with so trying to figure out what's real and what's made up just isn't really my cup of tea. Would prefer to just use all the known flips to judge people on their own and then use mechanics to tilt us in once direction or another if its close.

C. I'm of the belief that things have been going well enough thus far (2 kills out of 2 chops is as much as you could hope for) but today - now that we have 7 alignments - should see a fair amount of shake ups in reads lists. Use what we have so far as a starting point but don't be afraid to shake it up. There's enough info now we should have the ability to make good reads for good reasons instead of vibe checks and mostly meta.



My plans for this game day are:
- reread eod1
- focus on the wagons we know results of, figure out who was moving where
- pay attention to dead villagers and their pushes during these times. lots of good players in this game so want to pay extra attention to why they died over others
- reread post Dya claim day 2
- focus on reactions and who seems gung ho about killing rask vs those that want to look good for the next day
- form a towncore
- use said towncore to pore over the thread and help sort the game
- be annoyed at myself for not just shitposting and vibing still
- brains be weird
- sort through any mechanical thing that bothers me
- get a full reads list with in depth explanations for each player
- hope thats good enough to win
Pondering this post while I eat cup noodle and fully loaded nachos

[theknightsofneeee]

if i had to guess death flavor would probably be kp

THIS SEEMS IMPORTANT BTW

arctic flipped death

[theknightsofneeee]

vote: Raskolnikov

i have my reasons lol siw

i remembered that arctic flipped death and was like 'hmm that sounds an awful like it could be kp'

then i remembered this post (which felt like he was lynching someone who claimed vig when he was vig)

kept looking through his posts and found the other one.


arctic probably shot either bop/didi then, looking through his posts to try and find out, but I doubt it was didi

[nebjiamn]

i remembered that arctic flipped death and was like 'hmm that sounds an awful like it could be kp'

then i remembered this post (which felt like he was lynching someone who claimed vig when he was vig)

kept looking through his posts and found the other one.


arctic probably shot either bop/didi then, looking through his posts to try and find out, but I doubt it was didi
I think he had bop v but I’m on phone and can’t check

its also possible he targeted maple, who he sus quite a bit and died to a pgo/reflexive mill

[ladd]

Yo

Starting vacation from today so ill be extremely spotty

Idk what do with monti tunnel, its so incredibky silly and he in general he is out of the loop that i kinda think he is not a wolf but then we are probably doomed

I dont really tgink we are winning

Agree artic was villa kp, he softed last post. He didnt shoot bop nor didi tho so i kindaaaa think he may have killed himself? Like maybe he is desperado or some shit, should prob see if he softed anything

[theknightsofneeee]

btw this is pretty tinfoil world for me


but bop died after calling out dya for possibly being a wolf fake claim, and now arctic would be village kp as well as dya

not saying i'm worried about dya yet but its something to marinate on..

[theknightsofneeee]

reading this again i am perfectly happy to just fuck the claims and kill maple but i think it's pretty unlikely rask's role is real so i don't mind if we stick the course

after posting this seems unlikely that arctic would shoot anyone other than maple IMO

[nebjiamn]

reading this again i am perfectly happy to just fuck the claims and kill maple but i think it's pretty unlikely rask's role is real so i don't mind if we stick the course

I can’t find his tier list but ya I think he jus shoots maple

[nebjiamn]

btw this is pretty tinfoil world for me


but bop died after calling out dya for possibly being a wolf fake claim, and now arctic would be village kp as well as dya

not saying i'm worried about dya yet but its something to marinate on..
Dyas claim is too specific with conditions and how they cc’d rask, idt they can / would fake that despite what bop said. Requires too many things to coincidentally land dyas way on top of taking a silly 1 for 1 (From their original pov if w) out of relatively nowhere

[nebjiamn]

Dyas claim is too specific with conditions and how they cc’d rask, idt they can / would fake that despite what bop said. Requires too many things to coincidentally land dyas way on top of taking a silly 1 for 1 (From their original pov if w) out of relatively nowhere
Arctics soft and how he approached the dya/rask battle also implies he’s the even/n2 version of dyas role. Can’t pull posts but he implicitly believed dya more and it’s prob cause their condition lined up /mirrored if I had to guess

[ladd]

Btw benneh, my main push d2 was maple. I was voting them all day until they claimed confirmable role, i thinknits really easy to disalign them and me (even from d1 posts)


For the rest i dont agree with clearing wisdom from rask flip cause i dont think visor would put a firefighter just to ckunter a poor neutral. Like u are really putting a neutral arso itg which is super hard to play and also giving thr village a counter? Iyam no


I think rask was prolly like an sk who was telling the truth abiut their shots but got unlucky

[ladd]

Ya dya v

Dont tinfoil it, theyll die within 2 nights anyway

[Dolby]

I'm mainly making this specific post bc I was annoyed that Maple called me out for having them in my "Rask/Wisdom/Maple/Ladd" wolf team yesterday (when I said Arctic had a 4/4) and I conceded that Maple didn't look w/w with Rask (pretty much my only hangup with that team), and then they said that I was capping pairing them with Ladd. And I think when looking deeper into that team, rather than just relying off of my individual scumreads that Ladd and Maple actually look pretty teammed.

For those not aware Manti is another name for Maple

Sidenote that out of Ender/Wisdom/Maple/Ladd I actually sus Ender the least right now. I would have said Ladd yesterday, and am still kinda tempted to say Ladd now. Dude is vascillating between my sussest towny, or my towniest wolf

I haven't written a lot about Ladd and I don't really intend to, we're entering the work week and his individual posts are just to long, but I think that how he interacts with Maple D2 is exactly how one interacts with a teammate that's getting a good deal of heat but you think is salvagable if their posting improves and you don't really want to bus


I honeslty wouldnt expect knights to play like this as either alignment

bit confusing



i skimmed manti iso real quick and i think i forgot how to read manti since its been so long lol I do agree with artic that they got some weirdly super confident villa reads?

idk i dont even find that infamous 6 words post particularly villagery buy ymmv




really vibing with what artic is saying in this spurt of posting
light sus of Manti while he is (I believe) voting Gemma who has Manti as their standalone lowest read, their read of manti is literally "die".



maple - no read but interesting web of connections. prob a strong wolf pr if wolf

feels like a read that you make on a teammate that looks like they'll survive the day but isn't going to last long term. Really looks like something you want to use to argue points later if that teammate does flip red in a role flipless game. Same post ladd wants to remove two people from his townreads SPECIFICALLY if Maple flips red. This is the only such caveat that he gives in his readslist, no one else is really dependent on anyone else for his reads. Given this, I think that he'd give more consideration to solving Manti, but on Day One Manti is barely mentioned in his ISO at all, just as someone who he is nominally sus of and in his bottom tier of five, but doesn't get any attention.

Maple is a pivot read and a read that two other slots are dependent on, AND a scumread, more effort should be expended on Maple, but it just isn't


https://media.giphy.com/media/51Uiuy5QBZNkoF3b2Z/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611efazibl48vnkvtbuxt4eaypt3dh3x8shlb1m088m&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif



anyone that i dont villa read


if i am alive on d2 i will dive into the strange case of the manti villareads cause i swear every iso i open has manti as top villa and my confusion just keeps increasing lmao
ok so, solve Manti bc you haven't mentioned Manti much despite wanting a Benneh iso

Ladd isn't trying to solve Maple, Ladd is trying to solve around Maple, pretty much all his content about Maple (not counting 6 words post) is him asking Maple to do stuff (the Benneh ISO) or Maple in the reads of other people. I don't feel like this is a genuine scumread he had at this point, I don't feel like he's evaluating Maple's posts. Admitidly I got to Maple via Maple seeming way out of place in Syn's reads list (when I get to the day two section of this post, which Ladd also does), but I took a look at Maple's posts and thought they didn't look towny


vote:maple

I will probably afk and just read for a while

so day two ladd's first vote is on Maple. He will have one post that I like from him later, but he doesn't really talk about Maple before, or for a while after, or try to do anything with his Maple vote. It just exists


for reference this was all i said about syn close eod, i really dont think saying i was giving them the benefit of the doubt is a fair interpretation of the events



and this is the post i was talking about when i said every iso I opened had manti on top (syn iso oncluded)


insomnia




i have already explained it, dont think i can really expand on it any more. would you villa read me if i did what jan did at eod? i bet you would be calling for my head lmao
he has this post also talking about Maple in Syn's readslist, which is a good point, but he isn't really using it to push anywhere, or move Maple forward

I actually like this post tbh, just meshs well with me


V
Ladd
Insomnia
Bop
Artic
Grr
Dya
Gemma
Stett

The rest tier 1
Jan -not wolf with rask
Rask -not wolf with jan
Wisdom -claimed fightfighter...will hopefully clear up a bit later itg
Ender - not with dolby
Dolby-not with ender
Vanta-posts look good but just v low volume
Knights-looks good from eod but i just cant bring myself to have him higher onky based in posting, sorry


The rest tier 2
Benneh
Sunbae
Maple
Monty


I am kinda between 2 worlds right now:

1) i am off on more than 1 of my ender/wisdom/jan/rask v reads, sunbae/benneh are villas, maybe maple is too, maybe not. We are probably ok

2) sunbae/maple are w/w, benneh may be a wolf (or not, i honestly dont have a great read on his posts so far), knights i really doubt is a wolf with sunbae so would be a villa here, jan/rask woild be v as well so options are like super limited


I just think maple is the least villagey person, i didnt really like their iso nor pushes and the reversed stuff seems straight out of manti wolf playbook.havent played with manti in like years tho




With that being said, i will never votr anyone in my v tier but am open to voting anyone below at eod depending on how the rest of the day evolves

Gonna save the rest of my posts for eod cause i dont wanna be limited

Should be 40
I think this is a good encapsulation on why I think they have partner equity. Maple isn't really mentioned big posts like this or when it's useful to Ladd when making a point about something else. Ladd says that he thinks Maple is the least villagey, but he isn't really doing anything to move a Maple vote forward. Heck he even makes a point to that Maple could be villa. He's sussing and voting Maple without trying to move Maple forward or having that sus impact the game. He isn't trying to get other people to vote Maple, he just leaves the vote there, and mentions it every so often, mostly when he's talking about his reads overall


So ladd, you ready to kill Maple today? You said you would be here


manti somehow randing the only weird role of the game seems incredibly suspicious to me but they hardclaimed self resolvable and it's d2 of a 22 player game so idk if there is any point in lunching them today


if they dont actually confirm themselves tomorrow kill them tho

[ladd]

Sure, if yall dont kill me first



@ender i think u should claim full role too atp

[Dolby]

I can’t find his tier list but ya I think he jus shoots maple

that makes me want to kill maple even more

might be brainrotting rn but what if Maple's PGO was real/gave immunity, and that's what killed Arctic

also gonna say, firmly believe that Rask did shoot Sheep

Bop and Stett were both probably mafia KP (assuming maf have a even night vig or something like that) if that's the case

[Gemma]

I get that people hate making pure setup/mechanical reads WRT clearing people.

but I think the logic of 'why would wolf!wisdom claim firefighter if he would reasonably expect to get counterclaimed? and there is no way he could reasonably know there was an actual neutral in the game prior to raskol flip' logic is pretty sound and IMO clearing for wisdom.

I'll see if I can supplement it with a reads based reason to villa read wisdom as well but they seem like the obvious mislynch that people are pushing unnecessarily atm.

honestly man idk how many times i've said it i'm getting boring of saying it

stop using the word lynch pls

[Sunbae]

Starting at 2.5 hours til eod we have:

Knights 4
Gemma 4
Ender 2
and a ton of 1s


Ladd calls out "spooky" Gemma votes (at the time its Ladd, Sheep, Wisdom, Insom) in 1019. Ladd had been pushing Sheep and it's right after Insom votes Gemma and defends Knights. Also calls Bop a villager (bop currently voting Wisdom). Then asks Knights why they suspect Gemma in 1023.

Knights doesn't like Gemma's read list, calls it consensus, but notes Jan has been wolfier (1031)

Ladd calls out Maple villa reads and is confused by them in 1033.

Insomnia presses a Ladd wolf reasoning again in 1036. Then drops a v list of Stett, Grr, Arctic, Maple, Rask, Colonel. The 4 flips of these are villas from a wolf POV.

Ladd responds to insom in 1042 saying Insom's vote against Gemma is spooky because Insom keeps propping up this LaddBadd narrative but now is voting Gemma who Ladd has been pushing and is never paired with. Ends with an entirely sidebar note to newcomb that syn is better than their wolf game but worse than their villa game and is inconclusive. Syn currently with no votes.

Gemma in 1044 says voting for Knights cause they don't want to vote Ender and no better options. Then floats the idea of Ladd wolf but gives Stett the credit for it.


1047 is when didi votes Syn and it's followed up with Colonel doing so too and then Newcomb. All in quick succession. Syn is now a candidate.

Knights asks why Gemma doesn't vote for maple in 1054 since they think Maple is a wolf. "Feels like you voted me because I had a wagon". Gemma replies because folk v read them and isn't gonna campaign for it. Knights goes on to call Vanta a decent shot to be a villager. Feels good about Cobalt.

Mont calls ladd a wolf. Calls Syns wagon trustworthy. Calls knights not a good candidate. Gemma is the strongest negative opinion but is whatever about their voters.

Ladd questions knights about having me as more underwhelming than Benneh. Knights replies it's because Benneh got hung up on the thing with Wisdom. Then Ladd questions Knights on their cobalt read and pushes back against it, specifically about Knights saying they agree with Cobalts reads yet Cobalts reads dont line up with Knights' reads.

Dya votes Syn (ties it up) and ladd quotes it and calls it Villagery.

Ender says Syn counterwagon gives eepies then calls sheep town when Ladd/Dya talk about not liking Sheep. Says "Rask has been catching Syn for months on d1 and has them as a townreed". Then calls out Knights as knights xposts (lol). Then agrees with Ladd about questioning Knights. Then calls a rask vote wild.

Jan also mentions that Syn is in this middle ground between their wolf and villager games. Asks if syn/rask/wisdom can be the team (two non villagers so far jan! good job if town!). Then also says having Ben over me is silly (just pointing it out there cause its true hehe)

Ladd calls bop/arctic villas then makes a town list of ladd/newcomb/stett/arctic/bop/grrr/jan/dya.

Jan votes Rask when Bop does.

Knights disagrees with sheep wolf read and shades me (as does Ender). Note at no point am I a viable wagon or anything here so it's just reads rather than pushes. Then reiterates his Jan wolf thoughts.

Insomnia shades Knights for caring more than Gemma.Ladd is confused by this.Dya defends knights and will not be voting there.

Now its Gemma 4, Knights 3, Rask 3, Syn 2, Ender 2, Jan 1.

Knights gonna look at Raskol/Syn and see if he likes either over Gemma. Insom says he doesn't remember a single post of Syn. Doesnt feel confident.

Ladd shades sheep more. Mont votes Rask.

Grr is "ok" with rask votesd as in "could be a randomly a wolf". Knights is a v read for grrr. Gemma at good vibes. Doesnt know about Syn. Jan and Sheep would like to vote but feels fucked up to vote there without isoing there.

Gemma votes Syn.

Dya votes Sheep.

Ladd votes Sheep.

Knights says rask is moderately villagery and syn is null/lean wolf.

Insom would vote syn over rask but hasnt read syn

Ladd wouldnt kill rask, is more cool with syn dying. Mentions rask backtracked on their syn read later so its not even outing for rask.

Knights likes Rask posts. Votes are now rask 4/knights 3/gemma 3/sheep3/syn2


Insom votes syn

Mont unvotes rask

Jan pulls up that Rasks last post re: syn was still saying he thought town but "would be very sadge is syn is wolfing with sheep but lol".

Maple doesnt think its knights

Knights votes syn, might still vote gemma but likes that gemma moved

Ladd calls rask villagery and asks jan why hes voting rask

maple votes rask

jan says hes voting rask cause rask isnt wrong on syn he thinks, so makes more sense to vote rask

grr endorses the sheep wagon

grr: ok im on a vanity wagon your guys are probs wrong but better than me being wrong

ladd replies to jan asking why does it have to be between rask and syn

jan votes hemma

maple votes syn

day end at

Syn 7 (Newcomb, Gemma, insomnia, Theknightsofneeee, Didistetter, Arctic, Maple)
Raskolnikov 2 (grr, ColonelLubriderm)
sheepsaysmeep 3 (Syn, dyachei, Ladd)
Theknightsofneeee 2 (EnderWiggin, Raskolnikov)
Gemma 3 (sheepsaysmeep, Wisdom, Jan)
EnderWiggin 1 (nebjiamn)
ColonelLubriderm 1 (Vanta Black)

Raw shit for me to parse all in one place, ignore it

[Dolby]

Montmorency why did you vote and unvote Rask at EOD1? Why didn't you end on Syn? relying on rask's read?

[Sunbae]

A few immediate thoughts:

- In the event Ladd is a wolf their approach with Syn at eod1 is to poke holes in Syn defenses. Notably when people are using things like Rask's god read of Syn as a reason not to vote Syn and replying that Rask has backed off some (to Jan) but also to be hedging on Syn himself by saying more villagery than the wolf game but not as villagery as the villa game. Which my initial feeling is that w!ladd would either take a stance on wolf syn to either defend or get credit OR just let others defend Syn via Rask but he does neither. He even then comes out and says even if Syn is a wolf it's not outing for Rask so like, he's also not tying together Rask/Syn in the "in Syn dies wolf then Rask is wolfy" way either? The town list of ladd/newcomb/stett/arctic/bop/grrr/jan/dya that he dropped is looking pretty fire atm if I listen to people about Grrr and believe the Jan/Dya claims (and I'll get to Dya shortly but I think that's a lock V). I really like the inquiry to Jan about why it has to be Rask or Syn while Jan is voting Rask and being adamant that Rask over Syn is the way to go in this situation.

I have a few follow ups for Ladd that hopefully can help me. At one point you shade Knights for voting Gemma while you and Gemma can't be paired (you're voting Gemma at the time) but at no point from 2.5 hours til eod to actual eod do you say a single word about Gemma. Gemma is a wagon almost the the entire time. The only thing you say is "spooky" about Insom's (and I suppose Knights suspicion but not vote?) Gemma vote. What was your thoughts on Gemma as eod proceeded? I ask because Gemma was posting all eod and it was about, well, not much surrounding what was happening. I do know Gemma voted Syn and that's a great look but the Arctic post about Knights/Gemma situation consolidating on Syn feeling weird is something that feels weird to me too. And Gemma basically just voted Knights and Syn because they were other wagons as far as I can tell (at least specifically mentioned that about Knights). As I'm trying to put worlds together I'd like to know why you feel you/gemma can't be paired at that point as well if you don't mind.

- I would be absolutely floored if Knights is a wolf. That end of day was pretty fantastic. Was churning out reads on their own interest (went and checked Vanta, went and checked Cobalt). He also just has his own worldview that he sticks to when disagreed with despite being under pressure. Not appeasing, more confident in a "i think what i think" way. Looks at top wagons near the very end (rask/syn), says hes gonna read them and comes back with a Rask defense and a Syn wolf read. Then votes Syn. Wolf Knights has every opportunity to land on a non-wolf in this spot. Sheep is being pushed. Rask is being pushed. He defends both of those wagons and votes Syn. And he does it with villagery posting along the way.

- I gave a lot of credit for Insomnia's vote on Syn "without reading their posts" but one thing I'm concerned about now is that Insomnia mentioned multiple times that he had no read on Syn as people discussed - couldn't remember any posts, didn't read them, etc - and at no point just ... went and read them? And in hindsight I kind of hate the shade of Knights (who i think is a very likely villager) for caring more than Gemma? Like Gemma was posting this whole time and Insomnia never even mentioned Gemma outside of this. I have slight concerns about a Insom/Gemma/Maple team at the moment but that's whatever/i havent read everything again yet so thats just my eod1 hmmm vibe. But I do want to spend some time just going over my Insomnia read today after giving so many villa points for eod that I dont really hold on reread.

[Sunbae]

I also think Dya is pretty much locked at this point. The fact that wolf dya would think Rask is a villager means that counterclaim would just be insane. Eod1 posting was towny. Voted syn to tie the wagons. Ended on sheep so shooting sheep makes sense. Breadcrumbed. Just, I'm locked there and will lose to them.

[Sunbae]

I would also like people to reread Gemma and give thoughts. I was not a fan of the eod at all.

[Sunbae]

I simply cannot find a reason that wolfMonty unvotes rask day 1, watches Syn get ran up and doesn't care and instead is telling Gemma to remember them, and then ends day 2 calling himself Rask's lover while Rask is about to die. And Monts general posts at eod1 seem fine trying to solve stuff.

[ladd]

Iirc i was shading insomnka for voting gemma with me, not knights

Wrt my gemma read at eod, i was really undecided cause i didnt they were not posting particularly well but they were around a ton and my reasoning for having them as a wolf wasnt as solid as id like my wolfreads to be so i just kinda decided to move off them to wash my hand of kt tho that may sound lame

I wasnt joking when i said i half voted sheep to end off wagon, i dont really like being on top wagon d1 unless its someone i wolfread with a decent amount of confidence or the cw is someone i villa read

I wolfread sheep and figured they wouldnt go over so i just took the easy way out. If wagons were close rask/syn id voted syn to save rask but alas

[Sunbae]

Iirc i was shading insomnka for voting gemma with me, not knights

Wrt my gemma read at eod, i was really undecided cause i didnt they were not posting particularly well but they were around a ton and my reasoning for having them as a wolf wasnt as solid as id like my wolfreads to be so i just kinda decided to move off them to wash my hand of kt tho that may sound lame

I wasnt joking when i said i half voted sheep to end off wagon, i dont really like being on top wagon d1 unless its someone i wolfread with a decent amount of confidence or the cw is someone i villa read

I wolfread sheep and figured they wouldnt go over so i just took the easy way out. If wagons were close rask/syn id voted syn to save rask but alas

Ok, I think it was you asking why Knights suspects Gemma right after the spooky comment that made me link them. But I can see that's two different things. Will agree they were around a ton at eod. What are your current Gemma thoughts two days later?

So here's the deal: I do have a minor gut fear from day one on you. It was when you were talking about Maple and the words being a meme and having no idea why people were villa reading there. I read that post and my gut ping said "that's Ladd laughing about how easy his partner is getting villa reads for nothing" and then I brushed it off. I still need to reread day two so I'm not locked in but despite that I am currently thinking you have a good chance to be a villager based on eod1. Most notably with how many options other than Syn there were and the fact that you did not either ensure one went over nor get credit for Syn yourself. I do know you're willing to bus and use that credit to get some kills and this was certainty the type of game where nobody would question why you were alive for a while. I also know you are more than willing to power wolf and there were definitely opportunities there. The thing Rask told me repeats in my head: if you were a wolf they'd have been dead.

But I need you to understand that this is a really hard read to make in this situation and I need to be absolutely sure by end of today. Can you tear through this thing with me and help me be absolutely sure? We have so much info we can solve this shit but I need help (im washed! ill be trying today but ugh). Cause I have a feeling getting you right is the key to this game with pressure you've been under and the way the games played out.

[nebjiamn]

Sunbae reread gemma's eod and idrk what you don't like about it, be more specific? i came away with a better feeling after rereading a bit

these couple posts read like villagey frustration/pushback rather than a wolf but ymmv?


ladd's read on me is almost entirely nitpicking and trying to make boring reads sound outing

sheep and wisdom barely wolfread me if at all and haven't posted in half a day or smth and are only voting bc ladd

insom is prob also only voting bc ladd

glgl


ok well your case on me is mega dooky and i'll be annoyed if the masses conglomerate on me because of it


Players Votes

Theknightsofneeee 4 (EnderWiggin, Raskolnikov, Gemma, Didistetter)
Gemma 4 (Ladd, sheepsaysmeep, Wisdom, insomnia)
Raskolnikov 3 (grr, ColonelLubriderm, Jan)
Syn 2 (Newcomb, dyachei)
EnderWiggin 1 (nebjiamn)
sheepsaysmeep 1 (Syn)
ColonelLubriderm 1 (Vanta Black)
Jan 1 (Theknightsofneeee)

whatthistextdo

beleive this is corrext


Vote: Syn


Players Votes

Raskolnikov 4 (grr, ColonelLubriderm, Jan, Montmorency)
Theknightsofneeee 3 (EnderWiggin, Raskolnikov, Didistetter)
Gemma 3 (sheepsaysmeep, Wisdom, insomnia)
sheepsaysmeep 3 (Syn, dyachei, Ladd)
Syn 2 (Newcomb, Gemma)
EnderWiggin 1 (nebjiamn)
Jan 1 (Theknightsofneeee)
ColonelLubriderm 1 (Vanta Black)

whatthistextdo

i also think her unvote off of knights who she's been wolfreading all day to counterbalance and join a burgeoning wagon on syn is a straight up good look, especially if we ride with the idea knights is town. i'm struggling to see that as a wolf tactic to try and spew/anti spew syn one way or another since gemma joined as 3rd and made the wagon real (if it wasn't already?)

[Sunbae]

My current town core is Dya/Knights/Grr (i trusted people on stett and arctic, ill trust em on Grr too)

[nebjiamn]

hmmm

i suppose there's a world where the vote onto syn serves a purpose if it builds up a rask/knights/sheep/gemma quadchotomy wagonfest heading into eod, as that would be 3 villas (from wolf pov) to counter sus on gemma, with a general sentiment assuming thread will lean into more established eod wagons rather than a syn cfd?

idk

[nebjiamn]

i slep now, gn, lookin forward to tomorrow



(as an aside, sad to report, no cat was adopted this weekend. there's a little abraham delacey out there somewhere but we haven't found him yet, not quite time for us it seems.)

[Sunbae]

Sunbae reread gemma's eod and idrk what you don't like about it, be more specific? i came away with a better feeling after rereading a bit

these couple posts read like villagey frustration/pushback rather than a wolf but ymmv?











i also think her unvote off of knights who she's been wolfreading all day to counterbalance and join a burgeoning wagon on syn is a straight up good look, especially if we ride with the idea knights is town. i'm struggling to see that as a wolf tactic to try and spew/anti spew syn one way or another since gemma joined as 3rd and made the wagon real (if it wasn't already?)

Can you start at like #1023ish like I just did and scroll through til eod cause I feel like my issues are more in line with what was happening around her rather than her specific iso. As an example, I think the unvoting knights thing looked like a situation where she was wanting to stay until Knights basically just kept at it and eventually asked if she actually thought Knights was wolfier than Rask and Syn, to which she replied nah and then moved. But also hadn't mentioned Syn at all during that eod before then. And hadn't really been mentioning anyone else other than the people voting her only doing so because of Ladd and only gave reads on anyone by answering direct questions. Idk, I went through that eod from the top and it just felt out of flow in a concerning way.

Please note: I could not consider myself a strong Gemma reader so by all means if you or someone else is, let's iron that out cause I'd much prefer my initial read of villagery to be right.

[Sunbae]

i slep now, gn, lookin forward to tomorrow



(as an aside, sad to report, no cat was adopted this weekend. there's a little abraham delacey out there somewhere but we haven't found him yet, not quite time for us it seems.)

aw :(

thats ok, soon Abraham Delacey will come home

[Dolby]

Quick post, probably last post

The Syn wagon established itself really quick

I’ll preface this by saying ladd could conceivably been caught off guard and not have time to react since this was a two minute window, but Malples Rask vote made the wagons definitively Syn vs Rask. Ladd should have voted Rask to save Syn there, sheep wasn’t going to be it at that point

Benneh who’s bussing (not Maple) Syn in that world to save Gemma? Insomnia? I’m just not seeing that and I’ve liked insomnias posts anyway

[Wisdom]

Btw benneh, my main push d2 was maple. I was voting them all day until they claimed confirmable role, i thinknits really easy to disalign them and me (even from d1 posts)


For the rest i dont agree with clearing wisdom from rask flip cause i dont think visor would put a firefighter just to ckunter a poor neutral. Like u are really putting a neutral arso itg which is super hard to play and also giving thr village a counter? Iyam no


I think rask was prolly like an sk who was telling the truth abiut their shots but got unlucky

I initially thought two of Stett/Bop/Arson were w!Arson kills (would imply they could ignite and douse the same night) but I'm probably just here to screw things up due to flipless.

I'm useless now so might as well claim the rest. I targeted Stett n1 and Bop n2 so if those two got arsoned despite that some major fuckery is going on. Rask being SK and no arsonist existing makes sense.

[Sunbae]

I have one post after this i think, maybe 2 but definitely 1.

Claims in order of townyness from my PoV

Rasko- vig who killed sheep
Jan- PR
ender-something that targetted stet
wisdom-firefighter
maple-self PGO?



vvvv(o wolves)
Rasko

vvv(0-1 wolves)
stet
insomnia


vv(0-1 wolf)
dya
grr

v(1-2 wolves)
arctic
jan
vanta
gemma
knights

/shrug(1-3 wolves)
ladd
mont
dolby
maple
sunbae
benneh

w(0-2 wolves)
ender
wisdom

WRT maple- i didnt read his last couple posts before my last post so i didnt realize he PGO himself. I dont know how that is self resolving, but fuck it we can give it a day

I was looking at the wagons from eod 1 and there is a point where its

I feel like gemma/knights fell into the tonal abyss today after getting a pass from the majority of the thread; not feeling great about that. If ender is a wolf i wouldnt worry about knights. If ender is a villa then that opens up the world where knights is a wolf PR better than syn but thats a reach.

I find it kind of weird that arctic seemed to be around for the EoD but never really pparticipated when we had such close wagons, when i looked at Visor's iso for votecounts, they dont show up until the last one as one of the last minute votes. In the last 15 minutes main wagons were moving and changing but arctic doesnt vote until the pile on in the last minute. I think thats kind of a bad look if it is true they were in fact around with all the wagon changes and not commiting to anything votewise

I think the least believable claims are wisdom/maple but i wouldnt kill maple til tomorrow; he says he can self resolve, i dont think he can self resolve but i dont think it hurts us killing him tomorrow instead of today in the weird chance that he can clear himself. I wouldnt berate you for going there today though


If you want to go outside the claims, i'd go somewhere in dolby/benneh/ladd/sunbae. I would probably go sunbae

I think I'd vote out wisdom if we are to go inside the claims. The day 1 reads of jan/ender didn't make sense to me and the claim today feels meh.

my heart say go wisdom so thats where i'll vote for now

Vote: Wisdom

I think wisdom because there is no way we can confirm that role and it will always just be a question we have. Even if we can surmise there is an arsonist, it still wouldnt clear wisdom.


I believe i have two posts left and im going to save them for the eod.


PSPSPSPSPSPSPSPSPSPS

I was about to post this and i saw the dya/rask threadvelopment. The correct thing to do is to do nothing. I think if they are not v/v then rask is always the wolf. Dya is under no pressure to claim and if i understand them correctly there is some reason where rask can't be the sheep shooter. Rask still has a shot so if he's a villa you just let him shoot the wolf!dya. EZ PZ.

I'd go wisdom still because they work as a wolf regardless of how the claimbattle turns out and they have one of the weaker claims.

Vote: Wisdom

this is for my sake later when reading more

[Wisdom]

My current town core is Dya/Knights/Grr (i trusted people on stett and arctic, ill trust em on Grr too)

Dya is 100% town. I kinda wanna stick to my Jan v read as well but I've pretty much reset overnight.

Why is Knights and Grr top town?

[Sunbae]

Dya is 100% town. I kinda wanna stick to my Jan v read as well but I've pretty much reset overnight.

Why is Knights and Grr top town?

Grr is because I've had just so many people tell me Grr is a villager. Knights I made a long post on a bit ago


- I would be absolutely floored if Knights is a wolf. That end of day was pretty fantastic. Was churning out reads on their own interest (went and checked Vanta, went and checked Cobalt). He also just has his own worldview that he sticks to when disagreed with despite being under pressure. Not appeasing, more confident in a "i think what i think" way. Looks at top wagons near the very end (rask/syn), says hes gonna read them and comes back with a Rask defense and a Syn wolf read. Then votes Syn. Wolf Knights has every opportunity to land on a non-wolf in this spot. Sheep is being pushed. Rask is being pushed. He defends both of those wagons and votes Syn. And he does it with villagery posting along the way.

I know Bop mentioned them falling off day 2 but they also seemed to just be busy irl and I wont worry unless they fall off today too?


With Jan, I think he's claimed jailkeeper right?
Jan is that right? Standard jailkeeper now inverted?

[Sunbae]

i see everyone set themselves on fire and we're yeeting a claimed vig for some reason

seems fine to me!

I also kinda feel this a wolf wanting to look tomorrow when rask flips villa? but its 3am so im gonna see how tomorrow me feels

[Wisdom]

Well, I actually am a Lover. But I'm not aligned with Rask.

Why did I lie about Rask? Chaos. He was dying, and shouldn't, but what was left. I also wanted to find out whether there would be a bandwagon effect on him. Also, Lovers have been some of my funniest roles.

I think stetter may have been arsoned. What was Wisdom doing?

@Ender claimed to have targeted stetter N1 with an unspecified power, which needs elaboration.

Montmorency I targeted Stett n1 so if she was arsoned it wasn't that night at least

[Sunbae]

I think we should vote wisdom.

It's kind of weird more people don't think dya-rask could be v-v. Because either side claiming as a wolf makes zero sense. Rask can be a 2 shot vog AND dya can be a one shot vig that only works if no one else targets. It isn't that crazy.

@raskolinkov

if you arent killed consider not shooting dya

and to those who think i might look bad for trying to not kill rask if he is indeed a wolf; i started up the syn and rask wagons at eod on day 1. if they are both wolves im a golden god and jan will be giving my tootsies a rub in postgame

gl godbless

. also for me later

[Wisdom]

So if there was two arson kills last night then it had to have been:

n1: Arctic got doused
n2: Stett got doused + Ignite

or

I was roleblocked n2, leading to:

n1: Arctic or Bop got doused
n2: Arctic or Bop or Stett got doused + Ignite

[Sunbae]

where i'm at roughly, tiers not ordered within (also an excuse to use [ glow] tags which are insanely cool)



~lock town (should be 0 wolves)
1. dyachei - vig claim aside just town off d1, but lock for the 'CC' on rask even tho he flipped neut and not wolf, functionally its near the same since the only real possibility was if rask flipped v then their roles were pretty incompatible
11. grr - my most confident read itg mech aside. i think lots of ppl have co-signed this dead/alive/town/wolf and i dont see the need to overthink this
13. insomnia - this high off day 1 mostly, dont think he'd bus syn when rask/sheep are viable wagons, especially when ladd/newc are pushing to resolve v!sheep and knights also has a good amount of v equity that could have been a 3rd counter. doesn't make sense meta wise and the rest of his posting is v good

v likely town (0-1w hopefully)
4. Vanta Black - prety villagery pop ins and feels distinctly different from her champs game. would like to see more out of them but i sorta think she may have been threadspewed v yesterday
9. Jan - vibes, playing towny, believable pr claim, shrug
21. Dolby (formerly C0balt). - idk i just read his posts and think town. if he were vagos i would say he makes good poasts

lean town but less sure? (0-1)
6. Sunbae - some meta stuff and general vibes, he hasn't pinged anything on my radar for how i read him but out of respect for his wolf game i am putting him in this tier cause as iaafr once said i'm "eternally pocketed" (I disagree and think that's a dumb ass read tbh but w/e)
10. gemma - idk going after stett as wolf just doesnt make sense to me but i could see myself being a sucker for this read. feels diff from last game they were a wolf too but low confidence
19. Montmorency - lots of posts around EOD1 and 2 that just make me wonder "why do this as a wolf?" -- they also make me wonder "why do it as a villager?" sometimes too but in general i think they've been good enough
20. Theknightsofneeee - had him in v likely town earlier but the lack of volume and impact yesterday made me drop him down just out of #thefear.

poe -> maybe woof (1-2 wolves)
8. ladd - pushing lots of villagers day 1 and 2 and didn't do anything with syn. he's soft pushed me a bit and a) he's like, almost never misread me and b) even if i dont hold him to the standard of A, there was like, 0 conviction with his push on me yesterday and was pretty limp and then changed his vote over to monty near eod while (i think?) defending rask. if mont is a wolf then its not that bad, but if he's v then he went from villa to villa day 2 after doing that day 1. he's also defended a few players i have wr'd at various points of the game, and i don't see how all those are true unless there's several misclears in my towncore. so either him or I are having a really rough game or he's a woof (or maybe we're both having ~OK games but we dont have the full picture to see that yet, idk!)
12. EnderWiggin - if i take his PR claim at FV then w/e but if i ignore that, i think he has a lot of pairing equity w/ ladd and wisdom. having said that, i do agree w/ ladd re: logic of claims coming out unlikely to have multiple wolves claiming after eachother and i get the feeling he'd coach against that so idt these 3 are like, hardly ever gonna be w/w/w.
14. Wisdom - claim seems out of place in relation to everything else tbh. some good posts day 1 but also some sus posts and day 2 was not great even disregarding the claim.

wolf
18. Maple - probly wolf KP tbh. claimed feedback at EOD. claimed self-resolution. self-resolving player dies, no feedback, fun

i know my bottom 4 poe is not w/w/w/w, or at least, its extremely unlikely, which means im misclearing at least 1 player in my lean towns so id like to focus discussion/challenges on my worldview around those 7 players today (with a preference for the ones in the lean town section but ill take what i can get)

I'd like to talk most in depth with you atm about Ladd, Insomnia, and Gemma

If you could read my longer post about the three from eod1 in the am and get back to me please? In as much detail as possible. Just because I am currently leaning Laddv/one or both of Insom/GemmaW does not mean I'm confident in it. Could be backwards! Could all be town! I think my Ladd points are pretty good though?

[Sunbae]

Also Benneh, elaborate on threadspewed v for Vanta please?

[Wisdom]

Grr is because I've had just so many people tell me Grr is a villager. Knights I made a long post on a bit ago



I know Bop mentioned them falling off day 2 but they also seemed to just be busy irl and I wont worry unless they fall off today too?


With Jan, I think he's claimed jailkeeper right?
Jan is that right? Standard jailkeeper now inverted?

The short time I spent in thread before leaving yesterday I thought grr was a bit wolfy tbh

I'll see if I can find your post later

[Sunbae]

there was some interaction with wisdom/syn that I thought was clearing for wisdom but I completely don't remember what it is atm

other than that I think wisdom is = rand

theknightsofneeee can you find this for me when you get the chance?

[Sunbae]

The short time I spent in thread before leaving yesterday I thought grr was a bit wolfy tbh

I'll see if I can find your post later

Could you elaborate on the grrr read?

[Sunbae]

Oh no im getting invested :clown:

[Sunbae]

Reread the post counterclaim: Don't think it told me much new.

[Sunbae]

if dya has weird stipulations and maple has weird stipulations and jan has weird stipulations maybe wisdom and rask are just evil idfk
nebjiamn ifk why file did that im sorry ;-;

rest of posts are for if something crazy happens.

rask saying he shot me in that recent "softing" psot is a rather unconvincing typo

ill check progressions for myself tho

https://i.imgur.com/nsfQ4S3.png

for me

[Sunbae]

Dya, Jan, Knights, Grr:

Can I get your thoughts on Benneh, Ladd, and Vanta please?

[Sunbae]

Ok I think Ive got a good idea where my heads at but ima just head out and see responses in the am

[Wisdom]

Could you elaborate on the grrr read?

It's mostly a vibe and I haven't checked it properly, but I think he wasn't doing much in with his time in thread at a point where it was very spicy

[Wisdom]

Oh no im getting invested :clown:

Vote: Sunbae

:wowee:

[Gemma]

Yo

Starting vacation from today so ill be extremely spotty

Idk what do with monti tunnel, its so incredibky silly and he in general he is out of the loop that i kinda think he is not a wolf but then we are probably doomed

I dont really tgink we are winning

Agree artic was villa kp, he softed last post. He didnt shoot bop nor didi tho so i kindaaaa think he may have killed himself? Like maybe he is desperado or some shit, should prob see if he softed anything

the shade of calling stett didi after they die xd

[Gemma]

I would also like people to reread Gemma and give thoughts. I was not a fan of the eod at all.

i reread them and their tone seems good but they're not doing anything just shitposting a bunch, seems not villagery imo esp for day 3, would yeet tbh

[Wisdom]

Grr is a mess to ISO but these posts and the ones following for the next two hours feels like Grr is very comfortable in thread and just laying back. Like there's not a lot of actual solving happening here.




dya i had as gut town all game, not because they were super towny but everything they said i was like "yeah town-dya would say this".

except that one post where i definitely had an out of body experience and i'm irked people still havent told me if its like, a normal take for them or anything because I genuinely don't know.


I already said I understand you hate it, that part of it is not what I have an issue with. I am hard pressed to believe that you actually think it raises someones wolf equity. Tell me why. Why do I not find literally ANYTHING else to call wolfy that doesnt irk anyone? Like is that actually your read? that wolf is just being uncharitable to you because wolves are not nice and villagers are nice people or idk.

Do you think wolves just line up at your door and be mean to you so you can have them all nicely lined up? What?

Whatever do ur thing ig it doesnt really matter what I do or say others are gonna solve the game not me rofl.


I am not there by choice but because i cant do that much better tho. Idk In my mind everyone here is gonna have better reads than me when I fully try my best so that's just why I think that yaknow. like dolby is a goat, arctic is a goat, inso is a goat, ladd is a goat y'all goats man.

benneh kinda noob but we love him! <3

Vote: Grr let's see where this goes

[Sunbae]

i reread them and their tone seems good but they're not doing anything just shitposting a bunch, seems not villagery imo esp for day 3, would yeet tbh

we are kindred spirits cause thats how i feel about sunbae

[Gemma]

I initially thought two of Stett/Bop/Arson were w!Arson kills (would imply they could ignite and douse the same night) but I'm probably just here to screw things up due to flipless.

I'm useless now so might as well claim the rest. I targeted Stett n1 and Bop n2 so if those two got arsoned despite that some major fuckery is going on. Rask being SK and no arsonist existing makes sense.

oh boy

two people claiming to have visited two dead villagers

what a nightphase

next we'll find out ender visited stett last night

[Wisdom]

Grr is a mess to ISO but these posts and the ones following for the next two hours feels like Grr is very comfortable in thread and just laying back. Like there's not a lot of actual solving happening here.









Vote: Grr let's see where this goes

IGNORE THIS

I was looking at the wrong day (:

Unvote for now but might go back

[Wisdom]

oh boy

two people claiming to have visited two dead villagers

what a nightphase

next we'll find out ender visited stett last night

Fwiw I softed my n1 target d2 while Stett was still alive
Which in hinsight was kinda dumb because wolves could have caught up on it and targeted her today

[Wisdom]

IGNORE THIS

I was looking at the wrong day (:

Unvote for now but might go back

The point about him not doing much but using a lot of words stands though, but this was not in the context/thread state I thought it was

[Gemma]

Grr is a mess to ISO but these posts and the ones following for the next two hours feels like Grr is very comfortable in thread and just laying back. Like there's not a lot of actual solving happening here.









Vote: Grr let's see where this goes

https://www.falseknees.com/comics/imgs/351.png

[Wisdom]

I village read this post wisdom but I have never been accused of this as mafia i think. I genuinely think you guys do not know how I wolf. fence sitting is agenda=>keeping ur options open etc. that means i am playing towards my wincon as wolf and everyone who approaches me that way will never read me correctly lol. (i realise that is like, an impossible concept to grasp for people who dont know me cuz it sounds backwards, but im explaining anyway cause i always do that).

Ah, here we are.

grr can you explain like I'm 5 what you mean here?

[insomnia]

i remembered that arctic flipped death and was like 'hmm that sounds an awful like it could be kp'

then i remembered this post (which felt like he was lynching someone who claimed vig when he was vig)

kept looking through his posts and found the other one.


arctic probably shot either bop/didi then, looking through his posts to try and find out, but I doubt it was didi

there's no way arctic shot any of these 2. im certainly not building my perception on the game based on this

i will take the post you quoted as just him fooling around trying to act non-PR

there is 0 reason for him not to shoot dya or if he would've shot a hard hitter, he'd have 90% shot ladd

the night is incredibly odd but i think the odds are simply really low that he is responsible for any of those kills

[ladd]

Ok, I think it was you asking why Knights suspects Gemma right after the spooky comment that made me link them. But I can see that's two different things. Will agree they were around a ton at eod. What are your current Gemma thoughts two days later?

So here's the deal: I do have a minor gut fear from day one on you. It was when you were talking about Maple and the words being a meme and having no idea why people were villa reading there. I read that post and my gut ping said "that's Ladd laughing about how easy his partner is getting villa reads for nothing" and then I brushed it off. I still need to reread day two so I'm not locked in but despite that I am currently thinking you have a good chance to be a villager based on eod1. Most notably with how many options other than Syn there were and the fact that you did not either ensure one went over nor get credit for Syn yourself. I do know you're willing to bus and use that credit to get some kills and this was certainty the type of game where nobody would question why you were alive for a while. I also know you are more than willing to power wolf and there were definitely opportunities there. The thing Rask told me repeats in my head: if you were a wolf they'd have been dead.

But I need you to understand that this is a really hard read to make in this situation and I need to be absolutely sure by end of today. Can you tear through this thing with me and help me be absolutely sure? We have so much info we can solve this shit but I need help (im washed! ill be trying today but ugh). Cause I have a feeling getting you right is the key to this game with pressure you've been under and the way the games played out.

Sure thing, but as i said i am on vacation now so will be mostly spotty phone posts from me (tho i prefer reading to posting at this stage of thr game)

insomnia arctic explicitrly said death flavour is probably kp, i really really doubt they were not kp goven its a flipless game. Obv they also did not shoot bop nor stett so imo either desperado gone wrong, not active n2 or killed by reflective stuff from manti

[insomnia]

i refuse to believe he shot bop or stett

in that case, what kp was he? i think dya is legit here and the most likely case is that rask was a 3p sk of sorts who thought it was safe to claim his shot since he didn't consider a cross kill option

so we have 1-shot vig and whatever arctic was? i guess it's a really odd post to make if you're not KP, but i don't see kp from him n1 or n2

[ladd]

i refuse to believe he shot bop or stett

in that case, what kp was he? i think dya is legit here and the most likely case is that rask was a 3p sk of sorts who thought it was safe to claim his shot since he didn't consider a cross kill option

so we have 1-shot vig and whatever arctic was? i guess it's a really odd post to make if you're not KP, but i don't see kp from him n1 or n2

Shrug

We cant only have dya 1 shot vig and in a flipless game arctic would not make the death flavour post if not kp

[Jan]

i refuse to believe he shot bop or stett

in that case, what kp was he? i think dya is legit here and the most likely case is that rask was a 3p sk of sorts who thought it was safe to claim his shot since he didn't consider a cross kill option

so we have 1-shot vig and whatever arctic was? i guess it's a really odd post to make if you're not KP, but i don't see kp from him n1 or n2
I could see wolves having a redirect.
The post was clumsy enough for someone to read into it.

[insomnia]

ngl, if you won't push for someone or at least give a more concrete path you intend to follow today, i will prob consider you voting a lot more than the previous phases

you want to go maple i assume but there's 3 other wolves. who you looking at?


vvv
grr
stett
arctic

very likely v
colonel lubriderm

very special tier of hoping it's 2 villas but it's kinda hard to stick with this without just straight up flipping them*
gemma
knightsofneeee

gth villa
jan
vanta black
Raskolnikov
enderwiggin
dyachei

null
dolby
wisdom
sunbae
benneh
Montmorency
maple

meh
ladd

*this feeling would dissuade if we keep doing good in terms of wolf flips. if we end up missing a ton, i'd revisit there, but def not for next 2-3 days

i intend to follow in this list still, but the logistics of who is more likely than the other im still unsure of. im a bit bummed we've lost like... 3 pretty clear villas last night

i haven't played a ton of closed setups. despite me liking to think im pretty proficient in terms of mechs in mashes, flipless is a bit beyond my understanding

i believe dya is for sure a 1-shot vig, most likely village. jan's explanation would at least account for the lack of equal KP on N1 so im tempted to still trust him

a point that is pretty obvious to me that i see as being discussed is that rask can't possibly have been arsonist. there is no world in which he claims the nightkill as arso the next day esp cuz the iron wasn't put on him yet and he did so pretty early iirc? it makes infinitely more sense to me that his kill was truthful and he assumed he wouldn't get cc'd by our villa vig cuz that was his rightful kill to claim and he didn't consider the villa stacked with him. yoloing that kill for cred, especially when he wasn't a wolf so he can defend himself is pretty odd gameplay to me given he's 3p. if he was wolf, maybe it would make some sense, but he wasn't

IF wisdom is legit and jan is also legit, then i guess another world is possible that the wolves are the ones that have an arsonist. arctic couldn't have been arsonist if wisdom is legit cuz why would there be a villa firefighter and a villa arsonist

pretty puzzling, we might be better off just ignoring the mech aspects that aren't confirmed to us lol

i really wanna kill maple today, im not giving him another day. best he can do is post villagery and maybe i change my mind

and im gonna strengthen my trust on knights as a villager due to bop's pretty confident read that he dropped on knights. i guess i should also consider wisdom, but firefighter is such a lame and unconvincing claim as a wolf that im kinda just buying it ngl

[grr]

I got a ping from Wisdom


Ah, here we are.

grr can you explain like I'm 5 what you mean here?

Not sure how this helps you solve me i was just musing. its self-meta. if u care about my meta u kinda need to do your own research anyway so my take doesn't matter. like am i gonna explain to you how i play as a wolf and you're gonna be like "ah that makes sense now I townread you"? I dont think so?

I think it was somewhat in line with what Arctic referenced here:


guess i'm just gonna use this time to talk about some other things

i don't like wisdom's post about the situation regardless of what rask is (i think dya is town either way imo, claim matches too well with what they've been crumbing previously + no real reason to claim here). it feels like TMI that rask is a wolf here, or even if he isn't the lack of real consideration about what's going on doesn't feel great

i haven't spoken about grr yet today but i want it known that i am +1'ing all of the lock town meta reads on him - he is a much more binary player as a wolf and it would be a lot more obvious. he isn't really capable of replicating the back and forth he's had over his reads and his doubt/paranoia on stuff. i can't describe it very well and these all feel like buzzwords, but he is a pretty idiosyncratic player and the way he's been parsing this game particularly with the frustration over being ignored on the newcomb push + his indignation in interactions with rask today are just from town him. i would not reconsider this read until lylo

insomnia's posts are also just too good, even if ladd is town i don't care i just feel like he's been the only person in the group of "strong players" who's been seriously getting his hands dirty and actually parsing that group, would maybe reconsider like the day before lylo but i doubt it. same applies to stett, she has a particular way of questioning people as town where i can tell she cares about the response and her follow ups have been proof of this

i'm actually less sure on ladd being a wolf now that i think wisdom is probably a wolf which is ironic given the earlier sentiment expressed, but ladd was the first person to call out wisdom's claim as probably fake iirc so it's worth thinking about. i would expect at least one between them though

i was going to say that after colonel's post transcripting the neighborhood chat i would have locked him as town but learning that was all fake kind of gave me whiplash and also scares me a little in terms of implications for how good his wolfgame is knowing he can fake all that. i haven't had many other thoughts on his posts today. i'd re-visit him like.. tomorrow, honestly? maybe the day after

sunbae i am kinda townreading cuz i honestly just believe the unconvincing self-meta wall. like they expected it to be not convincing if they are a wolf. when i'm town i have a habit of doing the same thing and just posting it anyway because i know it's true, and i don't bother so much when i'm a wolf. i also don't really feel like they have an agenda and the restless urge to do something that strong wolf players have tends to be pretty hard to ignore, and that's what he's done this game if he is a wolf. i find it much easier to just be happy about doing nothing when i'm town than when i'm a wolf, most people probably know this feeling too. is this gonna stop you guys killing him later - probably not, and i don't expect it to either, so this one is more of a hero townread that i fully expect you guys to ignore

montmorency actually, uh, yeah still no clue honestly. i find his posting very null. i've seen the arguments about his eod1 seeming uninformed and there seems to be some meta involved which i nodded along to, but i think this may need to be reconsidered if rask is a wolf too

benneh i think kinda falls into a similar place to sunbae for me (quite unhelpful, i know) but i don't really think the way he's playing is super sustainable as a wolf? i know that like, no one is really trying to kill him but going back to the restless urge thing, it seems like if he is a wolf he's perfectly happy about just letting villagers clear each other which is inevitably going to result in his untimely boxing in. dunno. i think he's had fine posts today, i don't agree with the ender push but i think his last push on rask seemed the most grounded thing presented today. i'm running out of people to call a wolf though so uhm i guess he's just a wolf anyway. rip!

think i've more or less spoken about everyone else

i have found knights and gemma distinctly unimpressive today (moreso knights, i still believe gemma is spewed) but if we keep missing killing people who aren't either of these two, the world where all of the wagons on day 1 were wolves is worth considering, because wolves stacking on syn there is like, pretty a pretty reasonable explanation for things. so re-visit them if the above people keep flipping town i guess

but as it stands my poe would probably be

jan (replace with colonel if rask is wolf)
dolby
mont
vanta
benneh
ladd
maple
wisdom
rask


anyhow here is my answer:

I have a very specific wolfmeta (that i personally characterize as just, pretty -EV for my team most of the time as i tend to be unaware of the ulterior motives that i SHOULD be having or i'm just not on top of it. I bus my teammates when I should be wolfsiding. I shield them when I should be bussing. Obviously I'm not like, completely clueless but its a tendency).

Ig the main thing is that i do not really like wolfing so one of my bigger tendencies is that I tend to overcommit to stuff. Because I just want to get it over with. In turbos I regularly snapvote in lylos as a wolf, because it's faster. I tend to redcheck some random peeps just cuz it accelerates the game. It doesn't always make sense but has certainly cost me wins. I commit to reads harder, because it feels faster.

So, putting myself into a long drawn out struggle to make decisions and documenting this in the thread is probably one of the things I do struggle most with as a wolf. Would I do that in the best wolfgame of my life? probably? Would I be having the best wolfgame in my life in this PL? Probably not? LOL

Hence, your observation "grr is fencesitting" is actually towny for me, when I probably would have made a call as a wolf much earlier. It's just an immediate thought that is sparked in my mind when I read something like that.

I also don't like being called out for stuff as wolf and waffling is something in general i get called out on in every villa game so like. I'm just be less likely to do it. Why say "idk" when i can just say "i think im going this way here" in that instance, btw. this goes especially, when after the flip, and we still assume dyachei to be town, both of these look like villagers with TMI to me. What exactly would I be having trouble with deciding as a wolf here?



btw wisdom i am also pretty sure you have seen me "not solving" (an accusation you had to me) as a villager. I know aren't good at reading me, but we actually play a lot so this feels so out of the field I am actually more than confused that you don't at least acknowledge that being like this is at least normal for me? (I will also say I don't super accept this as its very superficial. I have been solving. Have I been solving in a helpful way? Probably not. If you want to call me lazily "yeah he ain't insomnia and doesn't have cool comprehensive readslists and he also didn't have walls of quotes" sure. But If you actually read my posts it should be visible I have been trying to discern people's alignments pretty much all game. That's solving.)



I got a question from Sunbae, who asked for my reads on ladd, benneh, vanta. wolf, idk, town.

this is without me having thought more about the game yet tbh. if you actually want like, opinions that you think are reliable I gotta disappoint. Can I ask why ask specifically on benneh? I didn't really try to read him and leave it to dya and you (and maybe ladd, or literally anyone else), hence the question. I lean into just calling him a villager, because he's cool and i like him but I also do it, when he is a wolf which is why I havent really been trying that this game lol. Ig all I can say is that benneh is capable of obvtowning and he hasn't done that. Does that make him a wolf? idk. It didn't in the hydra game we played a few years ago where you were the one that looked more... energetic? while he didn't really, if i remember correctly at least, which is honestly one of the reasons I'm kinda squinting at you more. But I have also grasped dyachei seems to trust you more tho. In that case I'd trust that more over my own take.

[dyachei]

Dya, Jan, Knights, Grr:

Can I get your thoughts on Benneh, Ladd, and Vanta please?

Benneh prob v, ladd I keep flipflopping on but right now i think w, and vanta is likely newer villager here and having a hard time parsing what looks to be role madness

[Jan]

Grr is because I've had just so many people tell me Grr is a villager. Knights I made a long post on a bit ago



I know Bop mentioned them falling off day 2 but they also seemed to just be busy irl and I wont worry unless they fall off today too?


With Jan, I think he's claimed jailkeeper right?
Jan is that right? Standard jailkeeper now inverted?

Yes, I was Jailkeeper going into the game ( protect + block a target).
I got inverted last night and am now a ToS Jailkeeper/Jailor.

You asking me this feels like such a filler question. it is within my last 10 posts and there is no way you didn't read them or are stupid enough to not comprehend them.

[Sunbae]

Yes, I was Jailkeeper going into the game ( protect + block a target).
I got inverted last night and am now a ToS Jailkeeper/Jailor.

You asking me this feels like such a filler question. it is within my last 10 posts and there is no way you didn't read them or are stupid enough to not comprehend them.

Sure, of course. That's probably because I was reading day 2 and saw this post


My role does have an uncommon stipulation as well tbh.

and realized during your explanation today of jk stett over newcomb n1 and dya n2 (and your full claim) that you didn't really mention there was a stip during your choices. you just claimed normal jk who is now a different type of jk due to inversion. So I wanted to have you confirm that you were a normal jk.

Now im gonna go back to bed and ponder this some

[Jan]

Sure, of course. That's probably because I was reading day 2 and saw this post



and realized during your explanation today of jk stett over newcomb n1 and dya n2 (and your full claim) that you didn't really mention there was a stip during your choices. you just claimed normal jk who is now a different type of jk due to inversion. So I wanted to have you confirm that you were a normal jk.

Now im gonna go back to bed and ponder this some

Yes. I tend to not claim info that helps wolves and does not help the village.
It is a bad habbit of mine.

I was a normal jk with a minor twist/downgrade and that downgrade is still there.

[Gemma]

sup jan

do u think we're bluhblublughbulmgluhbuhbuhluh for sussing ladd

i own a home of my very own now apparently

whoshamammythunkit

[Wisdom]

I got a ping from Wisdom



Not sure how this helps you solve me i was just musing. its self-meta. if u care about my meta u kinda need to do your own research anyway so my take doesn't matter. like am i gonna explain to you how i play as a wolf and you're gonna be like "ah that makes sense now I townread you"? I dont think so?

I think it was somewhat in line with what Arctic referenced here:




anyhow here is my answer:

I have a very specific wolfmeta (that i personally characterize as just, pretty -EV for my team most of the time as i tend to be unaware of the ulterior motives that i SHOULD be having or i'm just not on top of it. I bus my teammates when I should be wolfsiding. I shield them when I should be bussing. Obviously I'm not like, completely clueless but its a tendency).

Ig the main thing is that i do not really like wolfing so one of my bigger tendencies is that I tend to overcommit to stuff. Because I just want to get it over with. In turbos I regularly snapvote in lylos as a wolf, because it's faster. I tend to redcheck some random peeps just cuz it accelerates the game. It doesn't always make sense but has certainly cost me wins. I commit to reads harder, because it feels faster.

So, putting myself into a long drawn out struggle to make decisions and documenting this in the thread is probably one of the things I do struggle most with as a wolf. Would I do that in the best wolfgame of my life? probably? Would I be having the best wolfgame in my life in this PL? Probably not? LOL

Hence, your observation "grr is fencesitting" is actually towny for me, when I probably would have made a call as a wolf much earlier. It's just an immediate thought that is sparked in my mind when I read something like that.

I also don't like being called out for stuff as wolf and waffling is something in general i get called out on in every villa game so like. I'm just be less likely to do it. Why say "idk" when i can just say "i think im going this way here" in that instance, btw. this goes especially, when after the flip, and we still assume dyachei to be town, both of these look like villagers with TMI to me. What exactly would I be having trouble with deciding as a wolf here?



btw wisdom i am also pretty sure you have seen me "not solving" (an accusation you had to me) as a villager. I know aren't good at reading me, but we actually play a lot so this feels so out of the field I am actually more than confused that you don't at least acknowledge that being like this is at least normal for me? (I will also say I don't super accept this as its very superficial. I have been solving. Have I been solving in a helpful way? Probably not. If you want to call me lazily "yeah he ain't insomnia and doesn't have cool comprehensive readslists and he also didn't have walls of quotes" sure. But If you actually read my posts it should be visible I have been trying to discern people's alignments pretty much all game. That's solving.)



I got a question from Sunbae, who asked for my reads on ladd, benneh, vanta. wolf, idk, town.

this is without me having thought more about the game yet tbh. if you actually want like, opinions that you think are reliable I gotta disappoint. Can I ask why ask specifically on benneh? I didn't really try to read him and leave it to dya and you (and maybe ladd, or literally anyone else), hence the question. I lean into just calling him a villager, because he's cool and i like him but I also do it, when he is a wolf which is why I havent really been trying that this game lol. Ig all I can say is that benneh is capable of obvtowning and he hasn't done that. Does that make him a wolf? idk. It didn't in the hydra game we played a few years ago where you were the one that looked more... energetic? while he didn't really, if i remember correctly at least, which is honestly one of the reasons I'm kinda squinting at you more. But I have also grasped dyachei seems to trust you more tho. In that case I'd trust that more over my own take.
grr

I think you misunderstood both what I asked for and what I found wolfy. But I read this anyway and a bit more of your ISO and I think you're probably town anyway.

You're being weird tho. We haven't played a normal game in like 3 years, and I couldn’t read you back then, I don't remember your meta at all. You also sussed me for calling you town when you were solvy d1 and now you're sussing me for calling you wolf when you were fencesitting d2, lol. I don't think either of that is AI though, that's probably how you are.

And a hot take but I don't think self meta is wolf indicative amongst familiar players. I usually tell the truth about my perception of my meta when I'm wolfing and when I'm towning and so does most others. It's easy to look up or get outted so people rarely lie about it.

[EnderWiggin]

I exist! Kinda.

I just want to say that it's amazing how you can literally label a bunch of hardware with The Exact Location and people will still somehow swap two of them without telling you.

[EnderWiggin]

I know Stett is dead but I feel it important to respond to this:


EnderWiggin does your role indicate you should give feedback?

Yes. It should have.

Or well... It doesn't explicitly say Stett should have got feedback but I find it very hard to believe she wouldn't have.

Which does make me wonder if I got N1 blocked for some reason :/

[Wisdom]

I'm starting to suspect ladd is a wolf who's pocketing/whiteknighting me tbh, but it's hard to explain why

But when I think that there's 3-4 wolves in 14 players (right?) and that he's alive it's easy to think he's a wolf.

Like, the easiest world is it's like Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte but it's never that easy. Ladd's easy to tinfoil, and then we have Knights and Benneh who I've got no clue on, and Ender who I can't remember a single d2 post from but I read he claimed pr.

Dya's town. Grr's probably town. I still want to think Jan is my D1 Town Clear and won't re-evaluate unless alive end game, if he's town pr he'll just die eventually anyway. And Maple who I don't know what his deal is.

My goal for today is finding 8 villagers, I have 3 right now +2 potential pr's. I'm soon done with work so can put some more work in when I get home.

[EnderWiggin]

tbh I still want to kill Wisdom Ender and Maple

I did no work overnight beyond a crackpot idea that Rask and Monty are on a neut team together and that's what prompted Monty's claim but I'm here for wolves, not neuts

I mean I'm ~moderately sure Monty is Neut.

Wolf wouldn't do that play and feels weird for a villa.

The question is whether they were a neut we wanna kill or not. Which is much more a shrug question and tbh idc to kill em today at the very least.

[EnderWiggin]

I'm starting to suspect ladd is a wolf who's pocketing/whiteknighting me tbh, but it's hard to explain why

But when I think that there's 3-4 wolves in 14 players (right?) and that he's alive it's easy to think he's a wolf.

Like, the easiest world is it's like Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte but it's never that easy. Ladd's easy to tinfoil, and then we have Knights and Benneh who I've got no clue on, and Ender who I can't remember a single d2 post from but I read he claimed pr.

Dya's town. Grr's probably town. I still want to think Jan is my D1 Town Clear and won't re-evaluate unless alive end game, if he's town pr he'll just die eventually anyway. And Maple who I don't know what his deal is.

My goal for today is finding 8 villagers, I have 3 right now +2 potential pr's. I'm soon done with work so can put some more work in when I get home.

Didn't you have a pretty good townread on me from D1?

[EnderWiggin]

let me guess

maple is responsible for a part of tonight's massacre

"I self resolve" can very easily be code for "I have KP I need to unload before you wagon me" tbh.

Which I should know more and I feel kinda dumb for not having thought of that yesterday when Manti was claiming self-resolving.

[Wisdom]

I'm starting to suspect ladd is a wolf who's pocketing/whiteknighting me tbh, but it's hard to explain why

But when I think that there's 3-4 wolves in 14 players (right?) and that he's alive it's easy to think he's a wolf.

Like, the easiest world is it's like Gemma/Vanta/Dolby/Monte but it's never that easy. Ladd's easy to tinfoil, and then we have Knights and Benneh who I've got no clue on, and Ender who I can't remember a single d2 post from but I read he claimed pr.

Dya's town. Grr's probably town. I still want to think Jan is my D1 Town Clear and won't re-evaluate unless alive end game, if he's town pr he'll just die eventually anyway. And Maple who I don't know what his deal is.

My goal for today is finding 8 villagers, I have 3 right now +2 potential pr's. I'm soon done with work so can put some more work in when I get home.

I forgot about Insomnia and Sunbae. Put them in no clue but I know others town reads them.

Gemma seems like the carton "lots of sus little push" wolf from what I've read. She's probably the best slot to solve atm.

[Wisdom]

"I self resolve" can very easily be code for "I have KP I need to unload before you wagon me" tbh.

Which I should know more and I feel kinda dumb for not having thought of that yesterday when Manti was claiming self-resolving.

That was 100% what I thought he was doing tbh

[EnderWiggin]

Ah fuck it. I can't be asked to wait.

I was jailkeeper and am now jailkeeper.
which is just very funny.

n1 protected stett (I expected Newcomb would only be targeted if wolves have strongman and stett was the dodgekill)
good chance that I actually got a protection on stett if we look at 3 kills tonight.

n2 protected dya in case they were bluffing about part of their role and are odd night vig).
this does tell us that dya did not do any of the kills inc ase anyone was paranoid for some reason.

...

Does Jailkeeper block non-killing actions?

If so (Respectfully) fuck you.

[Wisdom]

Didn't you have a pretty good townread on me from D1?

Yeah but no d1 read matters except Jan

[EnderWiggin]

Yeah but no d1 read matters except Jan

Sure.

But it feels sus for you to go from "I townread Ender pretty hard" to not really making a read on me D2 and then D3 being like "I don't remember their posts so they can go in the sorta sus pile."

[Wisdom]

Ah fuck it. I can't be asked to wait.

I was jailkeeper and am now jailkeeper.
which is just very funny.

n1 protected stett (I expected Newcomb would only be targeted if wolves have strongman and stett was the dodgekill)
good chance that I actually got a protection on stett if we look at 3 kills tonight.

n2 protected dya in case they were bluffing about part of their role and are odd night vig).
this does tell us that dya did not do any of the kills inc ase anyone was paranoid for some reason.

This was my exact reasoning n1

Bop I targeted because he too seemed like a not-factional target since he didn't claim PR (neighbor doesn't count). I was wrong about that one tho, or blocked.

I my target was jk'd n1 and I got rb'd n2 this is my worst pr game ever

[EnderWiggin]

I expect Wisdom, Ender, and Maple to all come in pushing me and/or Monty

Big question for me for how I view EOD is 1. Is Rask a killing or jester role. I think almost certainly a SK variant. In that case I actually really like Gemma’s EoD. Mafia have probably clocked that Rask is SK by that point and I don’t think that Gemma would be saying that they were saying about the claims then. Same applies to a way lesser extent to Monty. I kind of don’t like Vantas vote on Dya looking at it in retrospect bc like, any town should recognize that Rask looks worse but I also think that Vanta was kinda disconnected from the thread in that moment so it’s probably fine

I think Ender can turn it around but bro is probs wolfing, more at 11

What if I push Maple?

And then keep the pushing you for tomorrow.

Gotta savour the good stuff right?

[Wisdom]

Sure.

But it feels sus for you to go from "I townread Ender pretty hard" to not really making a read on me D2 and then D3 being like "I don't remember their posts so they can go in the sorta sus pile."

I don't think you had even posted when I ISO'd you yesterday.

[EnderWiggin]

Well, I actually am a Lover. But I'm not aligned with Rask.

Why did I lie about Rask? Chaos. He was dying, and shouldn't, but what was left. I also wanted to find out whether there would be a bandwagon effect on him. Also, Lovers have been some of my funniest roles.

I think stetter may have been arsoned. What was Wisdom doing?

@Ender claimed to have targeted stetter N1 with an unspecified power, which needs elaboration.

I definitely would try to claim I did something to the person I doused right before lighting them on fire.

That sounds like a great career move.

/s

[EnderWiggin]

nobody claiming any card thus far, to the surprise of no one

Tempted to claim my card just to be contrary =P

[Dolby]

Wisdom what is your read on Maple? Tbh even though it isn’t sbpc, I honestly feel that your Gemma/Dolby/Vanta/Monte world is kinda just the easiest miselims right now? Like, I think all four slots are town

Sup Ender I’m willing to give you a chance and you’re my lowest priority of my scimreads rn so I’m just gonna leave you to do your thing for probs an hour

[EnderWiggin]

Wisdom what is your read on Maple? Tbh even though it isn’t sbpc, I honestly feel that your Gemma/Dolby/Vanta/Monte world is kinda just the easiest miselims right now? Like, I think all four slots are town

Sup Ender I’m willing to give you a chance and you’re my lowest priority of my scimreads rn so I’m just gonna leave you to do your thing for probs an hour

Thank you for the grace your Excellency.

I shall be sure to make sure my serfs return the tithe within your hour. There shall be not an ear of wheat in my fields.

[EnderWiggin]

are we? rask was effectively a misyeet

Rask was a villa for wagonomics but hardly a misyeet.

I'd bet on him being a non-townsided neut. Arsonist/SK/something else malignant.

The reason I voted him early on D2 and stuck there (Before the claims) was because he read more like his wolf play than his town play (in that he starts to care more about psoitioning and the reads list was probably the biggest sign of this.

And yes I said nothing much about this yesterday but in my defense my energy was at 0 from just catching up.

If you gave me a choice between a second wolf and Rask the evil Neut, I'd take the second wolf. But Rask the Evil Neut is ~fine.

Because we gotta vote him out at some point.

(That being said I actually think he was truthful about the shot.)

[Wisdom]

Is there a vote count somewhere?

[EnderWiggin]

vote: Jan

If it helps, the fact Stett didn't get my power makes me believe Jan's claim ~more.

[EnderWiggin]

esp when that wolf was syn

tbh d1 wolf yeets are woated

d1 misyeet ftw

Ngl I feel bad for Syn. It's like... 3 wolf rands he's been D1'd.

Not that I'm sad for yeeting him as wolf, but still not a fun experience I'm sure.

[EnderWiggin]

Lol

Gave Arctic the card cause I figured he wouldn't die in the night.

Oopsiepoopsie

Vote: Maple

My voting finger slipped.

Oopsiepoopsie

[Wisdom]

Wisdom what is your read on Maple? Tbh even though it isn’t sbpc, I honestly feel that your Gemma/Dolby/Vanta/Monte world is kinda just the easiest miselims right now? Like, I think all four slots are town

Sup Ender I’m willing to give you a chance and you’re my lowest priority of my scimreads rn so I’m just gonna leave you to do your thing for probs an hour

I read a bit of Maple posting, he's probably just a wolf tbh

[EnderWiggin]

That post is basically a lolcat lol

[EnderWiggin]

I feel like I should probably do a reread of Ladd. I've had him as townish off D1 but ngl feeling like I am seeing an entirely different world to everyone else here.

[EnderWiggin]

Ladd townread was built around how he didn't feel like he was actively pushing a worldview. Like contrast to the game as wolf where on D1 he aggressively pushed me and would've flipped me D1 if it wasn't for Pizza and shenanigans around that.

And the game we were w/w where we distanced hard but then at EOD he was hard pushing a villager and helped me vote out Newcomb.

Both of those cases he actively was trying to cultivate a wagon, and here it just didn't feel like he had a solid direction in mind D1.

Maybe this is a stupid read but I liked it.

But it feels like a weak defense when people who have played with him more than I have start talking about how he's matching his wolf meta. And maybe it's a very slim margin but I felt like I have seen some of ladd's wolf play. Maybe lightning struck twice and I'm off base.

Nyeh.

[EnderWiggin]

On a different note:

I would be very curious to see what my role would end up with inverted.

[Wisdom]

Maple why did you target Arctic of all people? Feels like a clumsy pick if you're town betting your "able to self resolve" on your target, and you're not a clumsy player.

[EnderWiggin]

Vote: Wisdom

I think that the inverter is town. Don't really see Jan and Maple as mafia targets (I say this despite Jan's PR claim yesterday, but we're in role madness so w/e)

I agree with this ftr.

Esp since the "inverts" have seemed like strict upgrades afaict.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 3kp last night was because Maple got inverted and got a buff where she could give wolves an extra shot.

[Wisdom]

On a different note:

I would be very curious to see what my role would end up with inverted.

Gdi this made me think the same and that got dirty real quick

[Wisdom]

I agree with this ftr.

Esp since the "inverts" have seemed like strict upgrades afaict.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 3kp last night was because Maple got inverted and got a buff where she could give wolves an extra shot.

Who did he target n1?

[EnderWiggin]

me/sheep for one

knights/monty seems ~likely too (or i'm wrong)

Okay but reframe that.

How does it look if you're wolf. :curtain:

[EnderWiggin]

Who did he target n1?

Who?

Inverted N1'd Maple and N2 Jan.

Maple supposedly could only self-target N1 until inverted.

[Wisdom]

Also he just claimed Arctic was his target, he 1) was town and 2) couldn’t have used a kp if he got one due to death

[EnderWiggin]

Who?

Inverted N1'd Maple and N2 Jan.

Maple supposedly could only self-target N1 until inverted.

"Inverter* N1'd Maple and N2 Jan"

EBWOP

[Wisdom]

Who?

Inverted N1'd Maple and N2 Jan.

Maple supposedly could only self-target N1 until inverted.

Did he give himself something then?

[EnderWiggin]

Also he just claimed Arctic was his target, he 1) was town and 2) couldn’t have used a kp if he got one due to death

I'm implying Maple lied, yes.

[EnderWiggin]

...

Look. I'm just gonna suggest you read Maple's ISO.

Literally everything I'm saying is from the ISO and my conjecture is "Maple lied".

[Wisdom]

I'm implying Maple lied, yes.

And instead gave a wolf a kp shot?
As town?
Why?

[EnderWiggin]

And instead gave a wolf a kp shot?
As town?
Why?

What part of "I'm voting Maple cause I think they're wolf" are you not getting.

[Wisdom]

Lol

Gave Arctic the card cause I figured he wouldn't die in the night.

Oopsiepoopsie

Hard doubt

[Wisdom]

What part of "I'm voting Maple cause I think they're wolf" are you not getting.

You just said you agreed when Dolby called Maple town wtf

[Dolby]

Wisdom is likely just a wolf with Maple Ender

Wisdom if you were scumreading Maple, why not mention it until I asked you directly? Given the position of Maple since mid-D2 that should be a slot of great interest

I think it's very possible that the inverter is town, didn't understand that inverters wasn't a strict debuff, and targetted Maple N1 thinking it was a debuff

Then probably targetted Jan N2 after Maple claimed they were self-resolvable from it bc Jan doesn't look the best but looks like the best or second best of the PR claims depending on your personal take

[EnderWiggin]

You just said you agreed when Dolby called Maple town wtf

I think the Inverter is town.

Inverter =/= Maple

[Dolby]

I agree with this ftr.

Esp since the "inverts" have seemed like strict upgrades afaict.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 3kp last night was because Maple got inverted and got a buff where she could give wolves an extra shot.

This not either of us calling Maple town wisdom

this is us saying that Maple was targetted by a town member with the inverter, not a mafia member with the inverter

[ladd]

I never played with dolby but he seems like an obvious villager based on pure posting

Kinda ok just clearing him tbh

Bbl

[Dolby]

Ender did we just become masons

(not really but I am liking you in this sequence)

[EnderWiggin]

Ender did we just become masons

(not really but I am liking you in this sequence)

Hehe pockated once more :curtain:

[EnderWiggin]

I never played with dolby but he seems like an obvious villager based on pure posting

Kinda ok just clearing him tbh

Bbl

I still don't like how uncharitable Dolby's start on me was.

And how misrep it was.

But I'll agree D3 posts look good so far.

[EnderWiggin]

Could Ender's thing have blocked the jailkeeping?

Nope.

[grr]

knights reads super towny to me, a little detail I like here is him making sure Rasks "alignment" gets framed correctly wrt vote logic, as that is something i pondered over as well immediately after he flipped. so probs just towncoring him at this point.



the role stuff goes over my head and I am a bit worried to just accept all of these conclusions as what i want to go off, but um:



reminder that raskol was a villager WRT vote logic (people who voted him EOD 1 over syn voted a villager wagon over a wolf wagon)

less so yesterday after the claim (because it was a weird claim and likely to be non villager after that) but people pushing him before the claim also were essentially pushing a villager.



btw I think that based on his card (the devil) he was likely an arsonist. He was neutral, flavor works well for that role, and it makes wisdom's role believable/likely villager.

Since no additional kp showed n1, makes arsonist more likely too.

i'm probably cool with soft clearing wisdom(and yes ofc a wolf firefighter with a neutral arsonist is possible but I don't think visor would give a wolf firefighter and not a villa firefighter, and then I assume that villa would have counterclaimed wisdom)



knights soft clears wisdom for being firefighter in #2340 (was it ever proven she has that role in the first place?),

and also considering dyachei's role in particular (but honestly even without), can a wolf firefighter not exist without another firefighter or an arsonist at all? just to act as a rolestopper for dyachei?



I think its possible that raskol claimed the shot because no villager had claimed it and he thought it was wolf kp, and claiming the shot on sheep would let him live through the day (he was getting some traction on votes)

but can't really depend on his claims to be accurate because he was a neutral, and dya did claim a shot on sheep, so i'm just living in the simple world where dya's shot is the real shot and raskol just made up everything and was fake claiming to try and live through the day (the fact that he claimed a 2 shot vig is relevant because if he was an arsonist he would have to douse/ignite, so he was probably going to ignite n2 to 'prove' his kp)

but I just think firefighter is a random first role to claim if you're wisdom (afaik he was the first person to claim a role at all) which makes me more confident that its true as well.

also knights about #2343 I am super hesitant about clearing wisdom for a an early claim per se btw. Because they did that in the last 12h/12h game on MafiaUniverse, which is what made me like squint immediately at that lol. I think they claimed um, Neapolitan or something on there. As wolf Rolecop iirc. Like obviously "u did that last game so you're a wolf again" is a stupid read which is why I didn't verbalize it but it's been gnawing at me.





knights - said above
insomnia - idk hes being a villagery potato (he might get mad at this but i dont mean his solving just his... style of posting lol). also arctic agreeing with me makes me feel fine i dont have a reason to doubt this. - also same question about you as about dya for the same reason. why dont wolves kill u? you got a HUNCH maybe? also not related to your alignment
dyachei - claim (why are they still alive. this isnt to question their alignment but why didnt the wolves nk them? kinda odd idgi)
vanta - i vaguely like his posts and i just sheep bops n1 check on them (he was probably halfjoking about that being a serious read on the post Vanta made and i choose to not care becuz it's the funnier option hehe)

these are town imo thats where i am currently at and if i talked about others i'd be uh, not confident.

(I have not read every post that was posted today, but im kinda getting there some of you write some complicated shit ngl, just wanted to give an update lol)

mostly for Wisdom becuz im not sure this is helpful to anyone

for d1 ummm, i'm not sure what I posted in thread about you, yeah you finding me as villa for that on d1 was kinda unusual but not my bigger gripe, I just found your reaction to bop really uncharacteristic and the rest was a vague gutfeeling that didn't have THAT much to do with me. Yeah my read on you is evolving cause I'm also not good at reading you rofl. Also yes I didn't play a standard with you for ages, but we play a lotta mashes and I DO keep making it in your readslists so I DO feel you kinda think about my posting every other month in a game lol.

About me suspecting you for wolfreading me. Well. From my PoV. Arctic, ladd, stett, insomnia benneh all vouched for me being surely a villager (btw sheep and newcomb also tred me?). Now you roll into d3 and vote me. Obviously that leaves me in some confusion? I asked this before to someone else. Who of these people do you think have a terrible read on me? Who do you think is wolfing with me? I just dont know what to think. If you are a villager I wouldnt understand how you approach this game to end up in this conclusion Ig? It would seem like you would not try to make use of other villagers reads to help you solve or are p. out of touch with what has been said in the game. I'm not getting anywhere with this btw. I just reply cause I don't wanna be impolite.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom is likely just a wolf with Maple Ender

Wisdom if you were scumreading Maple, why not mention it until I asked you directly? Given the position of Maple since mid-D2 that should be a slot of great interest

I think it's very possible that the inverter is town, didn't understand that inverters wasn't a strict debuff, and targetted Maple N1 thinking it was a debuff

Then probably targetted Jan N2 after Maple claimed they were self-resolvable from it bc Jan doesn't look the best but looks like the best or second best of the PR claims depending on your personal take

Pretty sure I said Maple had wolf pr vibes d2 tbh, and between my post before and your question I caught up on his claim stuff earlier today. Everything doesn't revolve around you my friend ^^ (sorry for snark <3)

[Wisdom]

I think the Inverter is town.

Inverter =/= Maple

>:

I hate English

[EnderWiggin]

Vanta what do you think of the current thread consensus that the four wolfiest people are Maple, Wisdom, Ladd, and Ender? And the less consensus read that Montmorency had potential to be a neutral teammed with Rask?

Tbh I’m struggling to think of a person who’s checked in today besides you who has major scumreads out of those first four names

I’d be interested in seeing your overall view of the game at some point today

On this note:

Can I talk to you about Benneh/Sunbae?

I think there's definitely a wolf in there from how D1 went with me.

Yes, yes, self-centred reads. But I have caught wolves with em before and you know that. (I want Maple over today but this is definitely a direction I want to explore for tomorrow/later.)

[Wisdom]

I have seperated inverter and inventor in the other context, I think it was just in that post my brain went brr.

Do we have any proof an invertor actually exists outside Maple? Who got inverted n2? If town, who's the inverter?

[Wisdom]

This not either of us calling Maple town wisdom

this is us saying that Maple was targetted by a town member with the inverter, not a mafia member with the inverter

Yeah I understand it now xD fml

[EnderWiggin]

I have seperated inverter and inventor in the other context, I think it was just in that post my brain went brr.

Do we have any proof an invertor actually exists outside Maple? Who got inverted n2? If town, who's the inverter?

Jan claimed N2 inverted.

And no, I'm not gonna guess who they are because I think they're town and if they're town them staying hidden = better.

[EnderWiggin]

Ok so to start lets get some things we know down:

A. From the wolves pov we know they thought Rask was town. This is relevant not just for eod1 wagon analysis but also eod2 analysis where wolves were thinking we were chopping a town vig. When rereading eod1 (which I will be doing shortly) we have known info that there were wagons on Sheep (villa), Rask (villa from wolf pov), and Syn (wolf). When rereading yesterday, I want to look at which players were posting in a way to look good after town Rask vig flips at eod.

B. There are quite a few claims and the game can turn mechanical pretty easily but I want to use mechanical claims to supplement reads on actual posting rather than making reads based on the claims. None of the claims are really verifiable without flips and frankly they all sound kind of convoluted to begin with so trying to figure out what's real and what's made up just isn't really my cup of tea. Would prefer to just use all the known flips to judge people on their own and then use mechanics to tilt us in once direction or another if its close.

C. I'm of the belief that things have been going well enough thus far (2 kills out of 2 chops is as much as you could hope for) but today - now that we have 7 alignments - should see a fair amount of shake ups in reads lists. Use what we have so far as a starting point but don't be afraid to shake it up. There's enough info now we should have the ability to make good reads for good reasons instead of vibe checks and mostly meta.



My plans for this game day are:
- reread eod1
- focus on the wagons we know results of, figure out who was moving where
- pay attention to dead villagers and their pushes during these times. lots of good players in this game so want to pay extra attention to why they died over others
- reread post Dya claim day 2
- focus on reactions and who seems gung ho about killing rask vs those that want to look good for the next day
- form a towncore
- use said towncore to pore over the thread and help sort the game
- be annoyed at myself for not just shitposting and vibing still
- brains be weird
- sort through any mechanical thing that bothers me
- get a full reads list with in depth explanations for each player
- hope thats good enough to win

I'm ngl this feels very performative.

I do feel it might be uncharitable of me but:

This is a lot of talking about how they're going to do Good Villager Things without doing Good Villager Things.

I'll see how it progresses but I don't remember Sunbae!Town talking so much about how they're gonna do the Thing.tm instead of just doing things.

[Dolby]

On this note:

Can I talk to you about Benneh/Sunbae?

I think there's definitely a wolf in there from how D1 went with me.

Yes, yes, self-centred reads. But I have caught wolves with em before and you know that. (I want Maple over today but this is definitely a direction I want to explore for tomorrow/later.)

think they are a area I explore if I begin feeling that I'm wrong on the Ladd/you portion of my scumreads (mainly moreso Ladd bc Benneh/Ladd is not a full on dichotomy). I think I eval Vanta/Monty/Gemma as well. I also just don't feel like there's necessarily a wolf between them based on D1?