to attack the papacy or not?

[JAG]

well topic states the question, is it worth attackign the papecy, i have never tried it but as italians especially i see the great benefit of the land, but as i have not attacked the pope before i do not know the consequences. i presumed that it wud mean major revolts in my provinces, so always left the pope alone, after all it is a secure boarder and at end of the day thats what u need most of the time, security on a front while u bash the other fronts.

anyway attack the pope or not?

[Dramicus]

Well, It really depends on your situation... If your starting out i wouldnt recomend attacking them, as you will get exco'ed asap which could bring crusaders knocking at your door. I also wouldent recomend it either if you have a really large empire because when you get exco'ed theres a really high chance of mass rebellions. If your a non-catholic faction then it doesnt really matter as long as you are ready for any crusades which may come your way...

And not to mention that the damn pope comes back with an ever growing army every once and a while...

Hope that helped

[Foreign Devil]

Here's my take:

I was playing as the Italians recently, and this is what I did. Several years into my game, I wound up at war with Sicily. I eventually was excommunicated. The Pope was getting on in years, so I decided to take the Papal States. I left the Pope alone in Rome to prevent reappearances. Rome has a very small income, and the Pope might even now be in the red. If he is, he will try and attack, but since he has only a few weak units, this should not be a problem. In a few years, he will die and your excommunication will be lifted.

Hope that helps

[Leet Eriksson]

I would recommend against attacking him,becuase he always shower me with 1k forins http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Shahed]

i started an Italian Campaign, but the papal donations have been extremely rare GAH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif whereas as English i seem to get loads more from the Pope. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Dramicus]

Does anyone know what effects the pope giving you $? Some say that the more crusades you go on the more he likes you, but Ive gone through some games without a single crusade and he gives me more money than when i do... What I did notice is that If you attack non-catholic factions then he seams to give more...

[Cooperman]

The pope only gives you money if he has it in his treasury, usually by 1100 he is bankrupt having given it all away so dont expect too much from him after that.
Usually I kill the pope only if he excommunicates me then make Rome and the Papal States rebel the following turn that way i dont have to worry about him being hostile when he reappears.

[cugel]

The Pope is a major pain in the ass I say off the S.O.B. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

1. If you take the papal provinces and kill the pope you are NOT automatically excommunicated I have done this and while I was at war with the Pope, I was NOT excommunicated. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif I got a big laugh out of that. Here I was kicking the Pope's ass and he had the decency not to excommunicate me Once the pope is dead (or the provinces conquered), no-more crusades can be launched against you (the old ones seem to linger around for a while).

2. If you take Rome & the Papal States from the Pope he will eventually re-spawn within 10 or 20 years (assuming he has no other provinces to go to -- if he does he automatically goes there and you are still at war with him). When he makes his comeback -- watch out He'll respawn with a couple of huge stacks (usually) of Teutonic knights, chivalric knights, order foot & other crusader knights, etc., plus the usual papal trash (militia sergeants, fanatics, and peasants).

For this reason, it's best to leave the papal provinces till last (unless you're into fighting big stacks of knights every few years that is).

Here's one good tactic: If you've been excommunicated or the Pope is just bugging the hell out of you by authorizing numerous crusades against you, then take him out(as the Byzantines I had 5 crusades coming at me (including the Pope's) at the same time at one point). Then withdraw all your troops from the province(s) and set the taxes to very high. The next turn there will be a huge rebellion. Let the rebels have the province(s). Now, when the Pope respawns he'll have to deal with them, AND since you don't hold his provinces, you won't be at war with him, and won't be excommunicated This is the best way of dealing with him. If he starts getting on your nerves again, you can just repeat the process. Sometimes the rebels are so strong that he can't retake the provinces. In this case he's caught in a kind of limbo and won't be a factor again.

[JAG]

ta all, thnx for clearing it up, ill take the advice on board.

[Alrowan]

ive only been excom twice in my latest campagin as france. I guess im lucky

[LadyAnn]

He is dead, and the dead doesn't speak.

Annie

[Herodotus]

I think France is favoured by being less likely to be ex-communicated while England is favoured with money if it behaves. This is historically accurate as the French people were basically the people of Gaul who had a long relationship with Rome. Whereas the English were powerful foriegners (relatively foriegn, dominant military force) who the Papacy felt needed to be encouraged to behave. The Papacy bribed them and enouraged them to use their military excess to go on Crusades rather than picking on fellow Christians.

[jas]

Quote[/b] (JAG @ Feb. 01 2003,20:53)]so always left the pope alone, after all it is a secure boarder
Secure border? Just 'cos you're a good Catholic and have never attacked the Pope and are even allied with him doesn't mean he won't STAB YOU IN THE BACK Sorry, do I sound bitter?



cugel, I've never seen the Pope put out a crusade, he always gets everybody else to do his dirty work for him. Nice to see that he does take part occasionally.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[powdermonkey]

Personally I only ever attack the Pope if I'm a muslim faction. The occaisonal excommunication is worth putting up with to keep the ability to send Crusades http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I just love filling up a Crusade with loads of Feudal Sargents, and sending the 5,000 strong force deep into enemy territory http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif