How Much Do You Use Horse Archers?

[cugel]

I'm interested to hear how much do you use Horse Archers on the Attack?

I never used them much in Shogun, but in MTW I find myself using them more and more. I figured if they're really REALLY annoying to me as the defender, I might as well try them. Now I take about 4 units at a time on the the attack and put set up my army in cavalry skirmish. As soon as I start I charge them forward on skirmish mode and start causing havoc for the enemy. Heavy cavalry, infantry, and spear units are helpless against them, they can't get close. Sometimes the enemy general will charge them and get his unit shot to pieces. If not, I can shoot down his spear wall without much risk. Obviously, foot archers can outduel these guys, but for some reason, the AI never seems to have enough of them and generally tries to counter-attack either with cavalry or infantry. Only once did the enemy have sufficient steppe cavalry to make the horse archers useless(they can't outrun them and get slaughtered). Even if they get caught and wiped out, they are cheap and replaceable. When they run out of arrows, I just withdraw them and bring in a new bunch.

I suspect that they would be dogmeat against a human opponent who had light cavalry in sufficient numbers, but that rarely seems to happen against the AI. Last night I routed the entire enemy army, including lots of Order Foot, almost without losing a man. While they attempted to close with one horse archer unit, the others were shooting them down and when they advanced the rest of their forces to engage, they exposed numerous flanks to my heavy cavalry, waiting on the wings in wedge formation http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Foreign Devil]

Horse Archers are very fun to use. In addition to what you said, they can be used to pursue and capture routing units. And units like Turcoman Horse and Byzintine Cavalry are just that much more effective.

Mounted Crossbowmen are fun too. I'm sure by now a lot of you have seen my story about scaring away several hundred men with one unit of mounted crossbowmen. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Monk]

horse archers have won a battle for me...i was outnumbered with nothing much except Horse archers. i ordered them to draw their swords and attack the oncoming enemy. the Units they attacked ran from the battlefield shortly after. they can be used as both a missle unit and a Light Calvary in my exp.

[Cazbol]

If the enemy doesn't have light cavarly, be sure to send you horse archers behinde the enemy formation, assuming their back isn't against the border of the map. I was at the receiving end of this tactic a short while ago, which ended my single player game in 2 years.

[LRossaLordJimi]

One good tactic i use in SP:if you are outnumbered or you want to separate enemy forces send him 2 units of horse archers (mounted crossbows are better) and shoot to some units or cav that you want take away from center of battle...they will follow you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

With this tactic i take away from battle many spearmans (the AI send his spearman against your cav),i was on a hill,and with other cav i outflank remaining enemy (i was on a hill) in a battle of 9 hours,with 1000 soldiers of mine vs 3000 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif
This run good with pc,but sometime in MP game is useless for a short time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Ave

[Houston]

I find them generally useful.

At times in a campaign when I am in a weak positon (ie - playing Turks with huge Byz armies on my borders and Crusades on the way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif ), I will sometimes send an army composed only of HA's to weaken a border province the year before my main army invades or to intercept a Crusade to weaken the mounted knights or order foot.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I always use horse archers on the defense, because even if you're outnumbered they can run all over the battlefield, waiting for the time limit to run out. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[solypsist]

like many here, I use them to pursue and kill/capture routing enemy.

[Dr_Who_Regen#4]

I have used Horse X-bow men very effectively against the computer. My army had fled the battle except the Horse x-bow unit. The horse unit then basically defeated the AI splintered army by itself. It ran down 2 archer units, shot up and then ran down injured units of spearmen, feudal sargeants, peasants, and militia. It actually defeated 5 or 6 units in one battle. This was playing in early on expert.

I think the key was I was on defense and they didn't have any cavalry. I would let mine weaken the enemy as they came on until the enemy units...now very tired and badly injured from defeating my infanty and trying to close on my mounted-x-bow troops turned and ran. Then the Cavalry can easily run down the infantry from behind until they are gone.

So just to re-iterate mounted x-bow in a small unit defense when the enemy has no cavalry are almost assured victory..at least in early. Although you shouldn't go out of your way to engage multiple units you can actually win by defeating their army as they come at you.

[Basileus]

I use them alot especialy in the start when my armies are small, in singel player of course not to good to use them online http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Alrowan]

horse archers are the best way to break up a defenders formation. also, when in defence, use horse archers to harass the aproaching enemy

[pdoan8]

Mounted missiles: some are more effective than others but in general, they are my main missiles units and also my main light cav on offense. I usually use 3 in an 16-units army on offense. I use them for: striking a weak point (as flanker), engage H2H combat with foot missiles, chasing router, harassing low armour troops with their missiles, baiting enemy cav or anti-cav. Pretty much the same way and the same number as I used them in STW.

[Kensai Achilles]

I'm just a few weeks old in mp games but I happen to love mounted missiles. So far in my experiments they're usefull in 1v1 but can give a disaster in team games (the worst is mass route that will affect allies. They also run fast and gone over the map in no time). Unless the other teammies unite their cavs as well its not gonna be easy. I think MasterBachus and the crews have done this experiment quite well in team games. But I also heard recently that their strategy is not without weaknesses.

I first used mounted missiles a lot in SP games (turkish) due to low cash flow probs then I searched for experts replays to learn more. I found among them Magyar Khan's replays. In case u missed Magyar Khan's post (I don't remember which one, but I remember he talked about non systematic battles) here are some goodies he posted:

Magyar's replays (http://home.tiscali.nl/~t543201/web-wolves/wolves-replays.htm)

[troymclure]

Your two Boyar units :- 1100 florins
His SAP unit:- 750 florins
The feeling you got from finally beating SAP with cavalry :- Priceless. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[cugel]

Thanks Kensai Achilles for posting the link to Magyar's replays. I had fun looking at them since I never play multi-player (connection problems plus a slow mouse hand, plus the fear of being crushed and humiliated by a mere fellow human http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif ).

I noticed however, that the multiplayer games seemed to take place on very flat terrain with few forests. Naturally, such steppe terrain is much more favorable to cavalry, so much so that Magyar's all cavalry armies make sense. You could see the pitiful way that his enemies' chivalric knights tried to close with his Byzantine cavalry, only to get shot to pieces and have to retreat without accomplishing anything. The only way to deal with such horse archers is to have Alan mercenary cavalry, Boyars or steppe cavalry (or other light cavalry) ready to charge them. Even then, if they are backed up by spear or heavy cavalry your light cavalry will get chewed up.

If the terrain is more forested though, and especially if the enemy is able to place his archers on a hill to shoot down on your horsies, then they get the worst of it. I can't remember how many times I did this to the AI in Shogun - they were always sending hordes of horse archers at me, and they always lost).

"I use them alot especialy in the start when my armies are small, in singel player of course not to good to use them online"

By the way Basileus, have you played Magyar Khan in MP? His armies seem always to have a lot of missile cavalry and he also seems to kick some serious butt (including the team from CA that he routed completely in one replay posted to his website). You might want to rethink that idea that they aren't good in MP http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif I got a laugh out of seeing Giljay's (CA) army of order foot running for their lives from his cavalry

[Kensai Achilles]

umm i think I've played in campaign milan or carcano with mounted missiles in mp 1v1 several times and still work well, but I've never played players like AMP or Magyar in 1v1 and against AI it is very possible even in wooded hills http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Kraxis]

I have found a fun way to make HA effective in SP. Even against massive armies.

Normally I use HA as supporters of my army, running around on the flanks and harrassing the enemy, GREAT FUN http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

But then one day while playing the Turks (and getting my rear handed to me by the defending Byzantines and their insanly good Prince), I desided to do what the Tyrks did in history. I sent in a force of raiders.
It was an army made up of 14 Turcoman Horse and 2 infantry (with the general), I made sure the general was good but not my main man. In the battle I made sure to stay out of range of his ranged units while peppering his powerful infantry and cavalry. While I lost some 300 of my Turcomans he lost 400 of his best, then I withdrew. Until then I had lost every battle against that army with massive losses, no matter what I sent.
The next battle I killed the prince (incidentally by some Turcomans from the last battle) and won the province.

So I found that the HA can even be used when you are certain of defeat (I actually counted on it). Just retreat them when they are out of arrows.

[Bob the Insane]

I normally include a couple of units..

They are great if you can get them behind the enemy lines, they can harass the rear units, lowering morale and diverting attention from the front line, and if the enemy routs, they are in the perfect place to chase them off the field...

But I can not use them in large numbers like the AI does.. To much micro management, you would be pausing all the time...

[hoom]

I normally only use them to fill in numbers when I am short of better cav.

Mostly for chasing down the broken enemy.

I have no doubt that they can be plenty effective in skilled hands.
Its just not my style so I don't do it.

[cugel]

"To much micro management, you would be pausing all the time..."

I'm afraid you're right about that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif You really have to watch those guys or they'll get carved up. Leave them on skirmish and they'll retreat from 1 enemy, but. . . if there's a 2nd enemy they get caught and minced since they don't know enought to retreat at an ANGLE from BOTH
Still I like the consternation they cause. I routed enemy royal knights with a couple units of HA after they whittled them down a little. I had to laught about that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[jodmeister]

I always use at least two BZY Cav units of a high valour.

They are great for harrassing the enemy and can hold their own if engaged.

Once they have have used all their arrows they are usefull for supporting a full engagement in the flanking position and chasing off routing units.

But they are extremely vulnerable against other ranged units and best used from a height advantage.

JOD http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Tyrac]

I do not allow myself to hit pause in battle I am just not good enough to use the tactics needed for HA or mounted X-bows unless it is just one or 2 of them so i never even build them.
But I do use Boyars. They can be HA or Heavy cav. They cost alot and need alot of building upgrades to get so I usually have small enough numbers to micro manage them.