When to disengage archers?

[Fairlight]

Is it a good idea for archers to keep pelting an enemy unit once it's closed into battle with one of my own infantry units?

I never do this, because it looks like my men are getting it up the arse. But the MP players guide seems to recommend keeping up the pressure so that the enemy routs quicker.

Any advise?

[max_killer_payne]

It depends what type of archers you have because some e.g Longbowmen, Bulgurain Brigands can handle themselves fairly well in battle.

[Fairlight]

Quote[/b] (max_killer_payne @ Feb. 04 2003,13:39)]It depends what type of archers you have because some e.g Longbowmen, Bulgurain Brigands can handle themselves fairly well in battle.
I wasn't clear on what I meant, sorry. If my archers are pelting an enemy unit, then that enemy unit closes on another, different unit belonging to me (say my spearmen) should I stop firing?

I'm really asking if my archers are accurate for this to be an acceptable risk. It's like the line from Braveheart, when King Longshanks orders his archers to fire. One of his lackeys asks "But sir, won't they land on our own men?"

:>

[Exile]

Longshanks: "Yes, but we'll hit theirs as well."

Ah, I love that scene.

Anyway, I find that casualties from friendly fire when shooting into a melee are usually quite low. Not always. Sometimes, I've had to choose a new target for my archers. A good choice is if a couple enemy units bunch up against your line, target the unit furthest from your troops. Once your archers are out of arrows, charge 'em into the enemy flanks/rear

[Mihai Viteazu]

I remember that line from Braveheart, Fairlight, great movie. You'll have to deal with the same dilemma in MTW. I don't think you should make the same decision in all cases. It depends on the situation.
Roughly, I stop firing when my missile units don't see the ennemy unit because of my troops engaged in hand to hand combat with it, when my unit is wavering and any morale loss would mean the end of the battle for me (taking missiles and taking losses both lower the morale), or when I would risk to kill essential troops, especially my general.
Usually, I don't stop firing when I think the ennemy unit would break and run away (the morale factor again), when the ennemy unit would surely beat my unit without the help of missiles, or when the ennemy unit is one of his best and it's important to kill them. In fact, this is a tactic I use often, to stop a fancy unit with a cheap high defence low attack unit of my own, such as spearmen, and throw all my missiles on it In my bridge crossing battles this is my tactic of choice. In other battles, it works better, of course, when the missiles are up on hill and the fight is down, but I use it even on plain ground. When I want to kill a king or a prince I surround him with all my hand to hand units available (if any, of course&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and I shoot at him with all my missiles, even if I know I kill some of my men. No ennemy general has escaped till now if I managed to catch him like that.
Anyway, I think you should know that the archers and the like are not so dumb and the casualties they inflict in your troops are fewer than the ennemy's. You could experiment different missile tactics and make your own conclusions by playing custom battles and studying the final report. The difference between the men you've lost and the men killed by ennemy are the men killed by your own missiles.

[ToranagaSama]

Quote[/b] (Fairlight @ Feb. 04 2003,17:28)]
Quote[/b] (max_killer_payne @ Feb. 04 2003,13:39)]It depends what type of archers you have because some e.g Longbowmen, Bulgurain Brigands can handle themselves fairly well in battle.
I wasn't clear on what I meant, sorry. If my archers are pelting an enemy unit, then that enemy unit closes on another, different unit belonging to me (say my spearmen) should I stop firing?

I'm really asking if my archers are accurate for this to be an acceptable risk. It's like the line from Braveheart, when King Longshanks orders his archers to fire. One of his lackeys asks "But sir, won't they land on our own men?"

:>
My suggestion is to direct your archer fire upon another "different" enemy unit.

In the situation you describe, I usually look to see "how" engaged the enemy unit is with my own. Often much of the unit often to the "rear" is quite exposed and unengaged. It that situation I keep firing, aiming at the rear; not sure if the archers are capable of distinguishing the "rear" to minimize "friendly" fire, but I make the assumption that the "point" you "click" becomes the "aim" point for the archers. In any event, I do not suffer any noticeable "friendly" effects. I will keep this up until there are no significant "exposed troops"; my unit becomes fully intermixed; or the enemy unit routs.

HINT: To prevent my archers from "moving forward" pursuing routed unit(s) with arrows. I put my archers on "Hold Position".

Barring the circumstances above, I will seek to re-direct fire upon another enemy unit. My general intention with archers is to direct fire upon enemy units that are "most threatening" (when on the defense); and/or (when on the attack) I try to use them in a more "classical" way. That is to "soften" an area of the AI's line where I intend to make the focul point of my overall attack.

I rarely, and only in the most desparate of situations do I use my archers as "melee" troops. Prefering to "preserve" them, as they will become better as they gain experience. Archers with 4 valour or above are the most effective and with 5 or above can be quite devastating.

HINT: Unless in a desparate circumstance, ALWAYS direct your archer fire yourself.

HINT: Do not waste arrows. Considering the circumstances described above, if there's nothing to shoot at, then STOP shooting. Consever your arrows.

HINT: There is RARELY a need for more than 3 units of archers. Direct their fire as a "group" not individually for the most effect.

3 (or even 2 units) of directed archer fire upon a "single" unit can be devastating With 4 or 5 valour/experience they will stop an attacking unit in its tracks.

Sooo, summing up, I'd say in half the situations is best to thin your archers down to 2 lines; but NOT all situations. Do not all them to "auto"-fire, direct fire yourself. Use "Hold Position" so that they stay put and do not chase troops moving out of range. Direct their movement yourself; ALWAYS protect them with Spears in front. One unit of Archers to One unit of Spears. These Spear units "sole" funtion s/b to protect your archers. Preserve your Arrows and preserve your Archers for the next battle.

I LOVE archers and despite posts to the contrary they are VERY useful; but it takes Skill to use them properly. Greater skill than with STW.

Good Luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Have Fun

[Sainika]

Usually I redirect archer's fire. If you have no morale and valour bonuses your archers will harm your troops much more than enemy soldiers. But if you have a chance to move your archers (and especially arbs) to the rear of enemy your fire will be devastating to enemy.
Though in some situations may be you should keep your archers firing (e.g. if enemy has more men in the unit or they are more expensive etc.) but I think in every battle you have to choose the right decision depending on your general's stats, enemy stats, location etc.

[Ryttare]

Fairly good idea is to send ur cheapest and most worthless untis into battle first, that way u can pount em with catapults and archers without worrying about your troops =)

[Sainika]

I didn't say the cheapest and worthless because ther rout immediately and all army follow them. But for example, if your saracen infantry is attacked by MHC or cats you can fire on fighting mess and reduce the number of enemy horsemen. Or vice versa. If you fight near the hill and your archers are on the hill their accuracy is better as arrows trajectory is clear. And so on.